Fresh 200 with oil drip issues

For the push-on style, NPD part number 6766-5 for chrome or 6766-2 for black.

NPD 6766-11 is the one with a breather tube that goes to the air cleaner.

Summit Racing Stant Products 431-10061 is a chrome push-on and 431-10070 is the version with the tube.

SNN-10061.jpg


SNN-10070.jpg


The twist on style is in the Summit catalog too. Too many styles to list here.

The later blocks don't have a road draft tube to vent the crankcase directly. They work as yours is set up, drawing air thru the breather cap and sucking in fumes thru the PCV.

If you want to, there is an opening on some blocks where the draft tube might have been fitted. On the left side of the block near the front, there is a 1" plug that covers that hole. You could vent the block there, but there's really no need; the stock arrangement seems to work fine.

If the PCV is working well you should be able to pull the breather off and no fumes will come out of the opening. You might even feel a small vacuum.

The fluctuating oil pressure could have been the oil filter. It's rare, but not unheard of, for the filter to be defective and cause pressure to fluctuate. When you changed it, that might have cured it.
 
MustangSix":1mu90g17 said:
For the push-on style, NPD part number 6766-5 for chrome or 6766-2 for black.

NPD 6766-11 is the one with a breather tube that goes to the air cleaner.

Summit Racing Stant Products 431-10061 is a chrome push-on and 431-10070 is the version with the tube.

SNN-10061.jpg


SNN-10070.jpg


The twist on style is in the Summit catalog too. Too many styles to list here.

The later blocks don't have a road draft tube to vent the crankcase directly. They work as yours is set up, drawing air thru the breather cap and sucking in fumes thru the PCV.

If you want to, there is an opening on some blocks where the draft tube might have been fitted. On the left side of the block near the front, there is a 1" plug that covers that hole. You could vent the block there, but there's really no need; the stock arrangement seems to work fine.

If the PCV is working well you should be able to pull the breather off and no fumes will come out of the opening. You might even feel a small vacuum.

The fluctuating oil pressure could have been the oil filter. It's rare, but not unheard of, for the filter to be defective and cause pressure to fluctuate. When you changed it, that might have cured it.

Thanks for the info my friend. I ill check out Summit.

My oil filter is brand new. The one i just pulled off (500 mile oil dump for the motor break in period) I cut open to look and see if there was anything interesting in side. and there was not. The pressure / bypass valve on the fram is very well made in my opinion with a coil spring and solid metal base.

But I will keep that in mind. WHat oil fiters do you guys run on your folrds.?
 
UPDATE: 5/3/12

Two nights ago I attended our Portland branch Inliners International monthly meeting. There I spoke with several inliners who own and have wrenched on a wide variety of inlines. I told them about my oil pressure issues. RECAP: When the motor is cold I get 40-45psi. In about 10 minutes of driving my oil pressure slowly drops to around 25psi. A minute of two after that and my oil pressure gauge begins to bounce up to 40 and down to 15. Lately it has dropped as low as 15psi and even to 0 psi when breaking for a red light.

Many of the club members wondered if I had enough oil. They all agreed that a mechanical oil pressure gauge seldom goes bad. The main suggestion was to add some oil.

TEST #1: I added 1/2qt and drove for about 10 minutes. Soon The needle began to dip and sway. Half a quart was not enough to make a difference. I added the other half of the quart. In total I now had 5 ½ quarts in my motor. I didn’t have to drive very far to realized that I had over filled my motor. It began to blow blue smoke. I dumped the extra quart of oil to bring things back to regular.

TEST #2: I swapped out the oil pressure gauge. I removed my faithful oil gauge out of my International Scout 800 and installed it into my Ranchero. After about 10minutes of driving the needle began to dip and sway just as the other gauge did. This told me that the gauges were not bad.

TEST #3: I allowed the motor to run with the Scout oil gauge. An Inliner International member told me to closely watch the oil presser. Raise the RPMs, Hold them, then let off. At the moment you let off the pedal carefully watch the oil pressure needle. If the needle jumps up a bit and then drops down this means that the main caps are loose.

I’m happy to report that when I let off the throttle the oil pressure falls. There is no spike in pressure.

TEST #4: After all this engine testing in my carport I was disgusted and switched the motor off. I sat there in the silence and heard oil dribbling back into the block. It seemed to be taking a long time for the oil to dribble back into the pan. I allowed the dribble sound to stop, which took about one minute.

I then fired up the motor expecting to see the needle to be back at 20 psi, after all the motor was nice and warm and had just been acting up. But my oil pressure was back up to 40psi. I allowed the motor to run until the oil pressure began to drop back down to 20psi. That took about 3 minutes.

I then switched the motor off. Waited for one minute, allowing the oil to drain back to the pan. Then Fired up the motor. PSI was back at 40. Three or four minutes later the oil pressure dropped to 20 psi. Turned the motor off, let it sit for one minute, Fired it back up, PSI at 40, Ran 3-4 min. PSI 20, ……

Like clock work.

This tells me that my problem is not the oil level or the oil pick up…the problem is the oil is not returning to the pan fast enough. in three minutes I pump more oil up into the valve galley than can return to the pan and this acts like the motor is out of oil. I bet my valve cover is pretty full with oil. I bet that when my valve cover is full of oil I don’t get any crank case ventilation.

I’ll have to take my valve cover off to find out what is causing the blockage. If all looks normal, maybe I’ll switch from 30W oil to 10W30 or something like that.

---

I’m going to watch my motor run with the valve cover off too. Maybe I have an oil leak that is allowing lots of oil to pour over the head in one spot and the drain is just not large enough to allow the volume back into the block fast enough, thus starving the oil pan for oil and making the oil gauge show a block that is out of oil.


I'll keep you posted.
 
On oil filters I only like to use Motorcraft and the NAPA / Wix filters. The standard Fram (orange) filters don't have an anti drain back valve this is very important on many Ford engines and any engine were the filter is laying on it's side. With out it oil drains back into the pan and you get a dry start wearing your bearings out much sooner. Sounds like the oil drain back holes in the head and or block are plugged. Was the block and head cleaned in a Jet or Hot tank during the rebuild? Run some wire down them to see if you can feel any blockage or crude.
 
The pickup in the pan is pretty close to the bottom - it will circulate with only a couple quarts down there. I don't think the valve cover seal is strong enough to hold two+ quarts up there without making a real mess. You can certainly check the oil level with the engine running - maybe do that the second you start it up cold one morning, then check again the second your low pressure kicks in. You'll see pretty quickly if it's a problem in the sump.

Is it possible you have a "leak" in the system somewhere? I don't know that much about these engines, but on my Saabs there is an oil pressure relief valve that opens when oil pressure gets too high - sometimes as they age they get weak and you end up with low oil pressure, or they get stuck open and you have low oil pressure. Is there something like that at play on these engines?

Where are you picking your pressure readings up from? Do you have an oil temp gauge to correlate the actual oil temp to the pressures you are observing?
 
Yes there are a few places were can be source of a leak first is at the oil pump were oil pan pickup tube bolts to pump it needs to have the correct gasket and be bolted tight. Were oil pump bolts to block needs to have the correct gasket and be bolted on tight. The pressure relief valve in the oil pump sticking or spring that is weal could cause low oil pressure. Oil galley plug or plugs missing or loose (not likely since you do have oil pressure) Excessive bearing clearances. Bearings not installed correctly so that holes are not lined up with the blocks the oil passages usually not a problem but can sometimes be on cam bearings could be high oil pressure before (blockage) and low or no after. A very worn rocker shaft and or bushings can cause excessive top end oiling. Oil pressure is read off the main oil galley just above the oil pump. I don't have an oil temp gauge, but it would take another boss pickup point usually from the oil pan or if an oil cooler is used (IE road race or off road use) in & out hook up point is installed between the block and filter.
 
Checking the oil level while it runs - good idea.

Oil Filters with anti-drain back - good idea.

Removing the valve cover and watching the upper end will be the next step. Checking the oil drains in the head too.

This thread does not have any photos of my motor build. My head was tanked, fluxed, decked (a little), new valve springs, seals, guides and hardened seats installed. It could not have been any cleaner. And that goes fort the entire motor.

200ci-010.jpg


200ci-014.jpg


200ci-013.jpg


If drains are fine and the rockers are within spec, then I'll be dropping the pan to inspect the oil pump, gaskets, pick up and other things.

Thanks
 
UPDATE:

I did some tests over the last few days.

Using a stop watch I timed the oil pressure differences. Once the motor reached operating temp at 160 degrees the oil pressure was right at 40psi. The dip stick read a hair above the FILL line.

1:54 after thermostat opened (ATO [not an official word]) oil pressure began to drop.

3:20 ATO, oil pressure was at 35psi.

5 minutes ATO, oil pressure was at 25psi. Water temp was 175 degrees. No oil to be read on the dip stick looked like splatter.

Shut the motor off just after the 5 minute mark. Waited for the sound of oil draining back into the pan to stop.

.37 seconds for oil drain sounds to stop.

Started motor. Oil psi was at 25psi. I was expecting it to jump up to 40 as it had in the past.

Shut the motor off. Let it sit for 3 minutes.

Started the motor. Oil psi was at 30psi. Water temp at 170 degrees.

30 seconds after this last start up and the oil pressure began to fluctuate a little.

40 seconds after this last start up and oil pressure held at 30psi the entire time, fluctuations stopped.

1 minute after this last start up. Checked dip stick, no oil on stick, just looked like spray dots.

Turned motor off. Let oil drain back into motor.

30 seconds for oil drain back sounds to stop.

The motor did not fluctuate up and down drastically like it had before.

Assuming that the oil must be pooling up on top of the head, I decided to do something new.

TEST #2.

I wanted to see what was going on. Assuming that oil was pooling on top of my head and not draining back into my block fast enough I thought this would be a great way to prove this idea. I also read a suggestion on this thread that if my rockers were loose on the rocker tube excessive oil would leak past the pivot point and not oil my valves very well. I thought that if this were happening I’d have to see it with my own eyes.

I took an old valve cover for a 144ci Ford. I cut the top off of it. I then installed it onto my motor in place of the normal valve cover. After that I started the motor up and my stop watch.

Over a period of 20 straight minutes of idling with occasional blips of the throttle I witnessed the following.

NORMAL OPERATION. That’s right, all was normal. In fact, the oil pressure never dropped below 25psi EVER.
The motor warmed up like normal. Oil was flowing as one would expect. Oil was cascading down the push rods, out of the weep hole on the rocker, which oozed onto the valve stems, which rolled down the springs and onto the head. The pivot point for the rockers had very little oil leaking past them. I’d say that I did not see excessive oil at the pivot point. I saw wetness but no real drips. Even when the motor was at 175 degrees the flowed normally. Oil did not pool up anywhere. Some oil naturally sits around the valve spring seats. All oil on the head drained easily back down into the lifter galley.

I only spilled a minor dribble of oil when the motor was warm and I blipped the throttle enough to get a rocker to fling oil up and over the valve cover wall a few times.

I’d say that my valve train and its oiling process is working as designed.

----

So why am I getting this new result? The only thing that I’ve changed is the valve cover. Currently the motor does not have a pcv valve installed nor does it have the breather cap. Instead it has a large gaping hole.

Do you think that there might be a relationship between these two things?

---

There is a difference between the 144ci valve cover and the 200ci valve cover. I noticed that the 200ci cover has an inner barrier wall which straddles the rocker shaft. It divides the back 3 cylinders from the front 3. I think this is intended to force fresh air from the breather cap to move down into the block and proceed up to the pcv valve located over the front three cylinders.

I have one more valve cover from my 170ci motor. I will pull it off and see if it is designed like the 144. If it is then I will install it onto my motor with the pcv valve installed and the breather installed. Then I’ll drive my car for 20 minutes and see if my oil pressure (while at a stop light) hovers at 25psi. If it does then my problems might have to do with the vacuum within the block??? Hard to say.

This is a great mystery. I have no clue if I’m on the right track. But I’m enjoying this very much.

I know that if my next test with the older valve cover does not cure my oil pressure symptoms I’ll be forced to pull my pan and check that out. I know that some of you have suggested that right off the bat. But might as well be as thorough as possible and hopefully learn something along the way.

Thanks.
 
This may be nothing but you have the PCV valve in the front of the valve cover and the breather in the back. On my 200 it is the other way around. In fact I have a form piece of hose from the absolute spacer that goes to the pcv valve. No sure if the could cause any of your problems but you have said all was well with the 144 valve cover. Good luck and keep us posted.
 
Just rambling here. Are you sure a hi-flow oil pump wasn't installed? 2) I am sure I have a 68 valve cover sitting in the garage with front fill, rear PCV valve. If interested, PM me. It will need cleaned and painted. Yours for price of shipping.
 
bubba22349":8ouvn119 said:
Were oil pump bolts to block needs to have the correct gasket and be bolted on tight.

I don't mean to derail this thread, but quick q: On my '68 200, I removed the oil pump to get at a main bearing cap bolt, and there was no gasket between the pump body and block. I reassembled with no gasket. I did not see a gasket in the exploded diagram in the manual http://www.scribd.com/doc/54682662/1968 ... hop-Manual). Nothing in the assembly/disassembly (8-49, absolute page 332 on scribd) says anything about a gasket or sealant. Is there really one here, or maybe it varies from year to year? Now is the time for me to put one in if there is one! :)
 
Right you should have a gasket oil pump to block and pickup tube to oil pump. As for sealer it's not an absolute necessity but is a good idea if not over done. These gasket would be found in a full gasket set, and they use to come with a new oil pump you should also be able to buy them separate also and is not hard to make one if you had too. Don't have gasket set handy or would post a picture. Some other build info

The oil pump pick-up to pan clearance needs to be at least .060-inch up off the pan floor.

Stock Ford 200 Specs

Oil capacity 4.5 Quarts

Oil Pressure 35 to 55 PSI

Main Bearing Journal Diameter Min. 2.2482 - 2.2490 Max.

Bearing Clearance Min. 0.0005 - 0.0022 Max.

Crankshaft end play Min. 0.004- 0.008 Max.

Thrust bearing is number 5

Connecting Rod Journal Diameter Min. 2.1232- 2.1240 Max.

Bearing Clearance Min. .0008 -.0024 Max.

Rod Side clearance Min. 0.003- 0.010 Max.
 
The mating surface from the oil pump to block surface is machined.
This is a deal where the old shop manuals show a gasket between the pump & block, but pulling engines down i never saw a gasket between these two mating surfaces.
Yes there is a gasket where the pickup mates to the oil pump cover.
I never use a gasket between the oil pump & block.
I always make sure there is at least 1/4" clearance between the pickup screen & the bottom of the oil pan to prevent cavitation.
Many other engines never use a gasket between the pump & block or rear main where a small block chevy mounts there pump. Your choice. Bill
 
The_DropOut":zpueikel said:
UPDATE:

I did some tests over the last few days.

Using a stop watch I timed the oil pressure differences. Once the motor reached operating temp at 160 degrees the oil pressure was right at 40psi. The dip stick read a hair above the FILL line.

1:54 after thermostat opened (ATO [not an official word]) oil pressure began to drop.

3:20 ATO, oil pressure was at 35psi.

5 minutes ATO, oil pressure was at 25psi. Water temp was 175 degrees. No oil to be read on the dip stick looked like splatter.

Shut the motor off just after the 5 minute mark. Waited for the sound of oil draining back into the pan to stop.

.37 seconds for oil drain sounds to stop.

Started motor. Oil psi was at 25psi. I was expecting it to jump up to 40 as it had in the past.

Shut the motor off. Let it sit for 3 minutes.

Started the motor. Oil psi was at 30psi. Water temp at 170 degrees.

30 seconds after this last start up and the oil pressure began to fluctuate a little.

40 seconds after this last start up and oil pressure held at 30psi the entire time, fluctuations stopped.

1 minute after this last start up. Checked dip stick, no oil on stick, just looked like spray dots.

Turned motor off. Let oil drain back into motor.

30 seconds for oil drain back sounds to stop.

The motor did not fluctuate up and down drastically like it had before.
DropOut, the pressures starting up and idling sound fine to me, you ideally want 10-12PSI per 1000RPMs, and you should see some pressure drop once the oil heats up

JackFish":zpueikel said:
Hey where'd you get that throttle cable bracket?
you can find a very similar bracket off of a Maverick, it's where i got mine
 
This is good stuff. Thanks for the great info shared on this topic.

UPDATE:
Over the last few days I took all three of my valve covers and looked at them in detail.

The valve cover which came equipped on my 68 / 69 block has the oil fill at the back and the pcv at the front. It also has Powered by FORD stamped into it, with a rectangular boarder.

The valve cover on my 170 had an oil fill / breather tube at the front and no pcv hole. It also had FORD stamped into it with big block letters.

The valve cover on my 144 had an oil fill / breather tube at the front and a pcv hole at the back. It had nothing stamped into it.

Obviously these motors have all been fiddled with and I’m not sure which valve cover belongs on what. :arg:

I do know that my 144 & 170 have crankcase vents located on the side of the block. I understand how these work. The 170 vent was connected to my intake by a metal tube. My 144 has a long tube which reaches down the side of the block and ends near the oil pan.

I removed the 170 valve cover and drilled a hole at the back of it, near the D in FORD. I installed a pcv valve here. The oil fill / breather tube is located at the front of this cover, close to the radiator. It has a breather cap similar to the ones MustangSix displayed on this thread.

TEST #1. After installing my modified 144 / 170 valve cover I performed the same test as before. I allowed the motor to reach operating temp and ran the motor for 20 minutes in my car port. I watched the oil and all was GOOD.

It started at 40PSI and over the course of time the oil pressure dropped to 20-25PSI and rarely changed. Whenever I raised the RPM’s the oil pressure responded by jumping up to 35-40PSI.

Happy with that I went for a drive. I did the same things I’d done before. Accelerate from a stop light, hard braking, cruising at 40mph at 1500rpm. The oil pressure never danced up and down. The oil pressure at a stop light got as low as 20PSI at 800RPM. Hard braking did not cause the oil pressure to drop to zero, actually barely dropped below 20PSI.

I then pulled the oil fill breather cap off the motor and did the drive again. I noticed no change.
-----
So here is an interesting question. Could the placement of the pcv valve cause my oil pressure issues? From all that I’ve done so far I’d lean toward YES it does. But then ask yourself, What motor came with a PCV vavle at the front of the motor? AND did motors with a forward PCV valve have issues like mine? Were they designed differently? Is it that important to have a period correct valve cover to insure that your motor breaths right and allows the oil to flow as it should???

I might be making this far more complex than it should be. But it has been fun too, so no harm done.

On top of that I discovered that there are many PCV valve which all look the same. The main difference is the size & weight of the check ball inside. I was allowed to view all the pcv valves my local Baxter Auto parts had in stock. I found at least 5 pcv valve which all looked the same on the outside. Inside I could see that there were differences in size and weight of the check ball (or what ever its called). So the other possibility is that my pcv vavle had a light weight check ball in it, allowing full vacuum to suck hard. Maybe if I had a pcv with a heavier check ball, it would not suck as hard. ??? Who knows. This is all new to me.

Today’s test and drive helped me relax a bit. But one test and one drive doesn’t prove anything. Repeated trips back and forth to work proves it. So I’ll take it out on a cruise this weekend and give it a “Trust” run…build back my trust in the motor.

------

I was thinking about what you guys said about oil pump gaskets vs. no oil pump gaskets. I cant recall putting one on. I can imagine that if air can creep into the system it would be like trying to push water through a tube with a hole in it. You’d have a big leak. OR if the oil pick up were loose or not sealed properly it would be like trying to drink soda with a straw which had a hole in it. It would suck air. But both of these ideas would happen right off the bat and would show signs of poor oil pressure right off the line. Don’t you agree? I guess that if the oil were thick enough it might manage to move over a hole better than warm oil would, but even at that the oil pressure would not be right.

QUESTION:

What PSI are you guys getting with your Inlines at idle? Is 20psi or even 15psi OK or is it bad? Does anyone know the factory specs?

I know that a warm motor at 2000rpm should have 35-55psi. That’s what the book says. But I have not found any mention of oil pressure at idle when the motor is warm.

If I find that things are still not right, I’ll move downstairs and begin to look at my oil pick up, oil pump and other things. I really don’t want to do that, but I’ve done as much as I can on the top side.

Thanks for keeping up with my study.
 
The valve cover with Powered by FORD stamped onto it would be period correct for your 68 / 69 block. Very early 144 and 170 engines would have had the plain valve cover or block lettered valve cover would only be important if you wanted to keep car original looking to year it was built. Some years of engines will have the oil fill at the back and the pcv at the front and some have it the opposite it dose not really mater only that the PCV and breather are placed at opposite ends of the valve cover. It is also important that a valve cover has baffling were the PCV valve is installed to help keep it from drawing in excessive oil. 15 or 20 PSI at idle RPM would be safe.
 
I must respectfully disacred. The valve cover in the pics is not correct. On my 68 block and head the powered by for is in script. Also the oil fill tube is in the front and made from steel no rubber grommets..
 
Back
Top