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Small Six Motor Mount Dimensions

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CoupeBoy
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Small Six Motor Mount Dimensions

Post #1 by CoupeBoy » Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:58 pm

So my wife left me today.. don't worry she will be back, she is just at a conference in Las Vegas. But since I am a single father this week with 2 small helpers.. I decided to get to doing some projects that I have been putting off for a while..

Today I give to you the dimensions of motor mount, I measured an aftermarket one directly off of a 1967 200 and compared it against one that is a factory stock part that is of a different design, but same bolt hole measurements.

This first picture is the aftermarket motor mount that I used for the measurements, and all the important measurements that you would need if you were building a replacement.
SmallSixMotorMountDimensions.JPG

In case it is hard to read, the text from the pictures..

Measurements from points
A -> B = 2 1/2"
A -> C = 3 3/8"
A -> D = 5 1/8"
A -> E = 4 3/4"

Line between B -> E represents an imaginary 90° angle that originates in the center of the bolt that holds the motor mount onto the frame mount, and from that point it is extended up until it meets the vertical upright portion of where the motor mount bolts onto the engine.
B -> E = 4"

The angle of interest is point A and it is 60°.

For something else that I am working on, here is a picture of my 2yr old helper and a factory frame mount with a C7ZA-6038-C (Blue*) motor mount still bolted to it.
MyHelper.JPG


The motor mounts themselves are very different looking physically, but the bolt holes to mount to the engine in relation to the bolt that holds it onto the frame mount are in the exact same location/orientation. These bolt holes are in the same plane.
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1968 Mustang Daily Driver Rebuild (on hold for the Season 3/1/2015)
1963.5 Falcon Convertible Build (just getting started 3/15/2015)
Case 1830 Skidsteer FordSix Repower Thread (started 4/4/2015)
1970 170/C4
1967 200/C4
1965 240/bellhousing/flywheel/clutch/3.03 bell pattern
1975 250/flexplate
1975 300/flywheel

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Re: Small Six Motor Mount Dimensions

Post #2 by CoupeBoy » Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:06 am

Kids went to bed, so I got back to work... Earlier this week I took a stock '68 Mustang Shackle bushing down to the steel yard and found some tubing that the bushing fit inside of nicely, it turns out that the tubing has a 1.5" outside diameter, and you need 2.5" of tubing to fit the bushings inside it. The mushroom end on the shackle bushing will extend .5" bringing the entire width of the tubing plus bushing to 3.5" wide.

So I got started.. First a new spin on an old design, a new motor mount.
DSC_1892.JPG

This layout give easy access to the engine side bolts, easy adjustment side to side with a slotted bolt that mates the engine side of the bracket to the bushing side of the bracket, with 2 slots to choose from (5/8" apart, I tried it at 1/2" but with a .40 hole for a .375 bolt, it didn't leave enough "meat" between the slots)

So theoretically you could use these mounts on ANY small six. With a 144/170/200 use the bottom slot. If you wanted to fit a 250 the top slot (with 1/2" adjustment available) should drop a 250 in and get you remarkably close to a standard 200 height.

After the first sketch (which was full scale) I took a lot of measurements and turned it into bracket drawings.

This first bracket would bolt to the existing frame mount, would require (2) 90° bends, then weld the 1.5" tubing through the holes. If left un-assembled the end user *could* move the engine rearward .25" and weld them together themselves. the tubing would still be fully supported by the bracket.
DSC_1891.JPG


Then I made the top bracket, just (2) 90° bends, no welding, bolt into place. There is a lot of 'meat' in this bracket as well where the bolts go through, I am certain that you could move the engine forward or rearward with just some new bolt holes.
DSC_1890.JPG


After getting the full scale drawings done, I photo copied them and cut them out for test fit.
DSC_1893.JPG

DSC_1894.JPG

And by now most of you have seen the large gap between the inner bracket and the outer bracket, here is a picture of the 1.5" tubing with a shackel bushing pressed into it so you can see how much space it requires.
DSC_1902.JPG


And now you know why my wife doesn't go out of town very often.. I will fill her kitchen counter and the dining room table with greasy/oily parts and then do arts and crafts.. :wink:

I am going to work on getting some drawings done so the plates can be cut out, I have to talk to the guys at work and see how tight we can bend items, not sure if I can get a bracket bent as I have designed it. But there are things that can be done, like if the full encapsulating round brackets prove to be too long (hit the bender when bending up the second side) I could either trim off the full loop so it is only welded on the bottom side, or make the bracket a 2 peice unit so that one of the encapsulating sides is 'weld on'. I tried to design it with very minimal welding, since I can't weld, I assume none of you can either, with a full encapsulating weld, it shouldn't take much more than a couple good tack welds to keep it from moving. And even if it breaks the welds, it won't be able to fully fail unless it tears through the encapsulating loop.

Questions? Comments? Thing this is the scariest thing you have ever seen?
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1968 Mustang Daily Driver Rebuild (on hold for the Season 3/1/2015)
1963.5 Falcon Convertible Build (just getting started 3/15/2015)
Case 1830 Skidsteer FordSix Repower Thread (started 4/4/2015)
1970 170/C4
1967 200/C4
1965 240/bellhousing/flywheel/clutch/3.03 bell pattern
1975 250/flexplate
1975 300/flywheel

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Re: Small Six Motor Mount Dimensions

Post #3 by chad » Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:00 pm

"Thing this is the scariest thing you have ever seen?"

No, he's a very nice lookin boy.
8^0
Thanks , Ron, 4 ur post. I believe U may become one of the site's motor mount pro...
(I've seen your collection of mounts on the 'racks' and p/u truck 'bed' in the pic U posted).
Now what bout the 'towers' (or what ever folks name them)? Can those B played with? The one I call the Maverick seems to have no tower, only bolts, a simple "L" bracket and a rubber bushing/pad...
Last edited by chad on Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Small Six Motor Mount Dimensions

Post #4 by CoupeBoy » Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:55 am

I am afraid that for Broncos you are stuck with what Ford gave you. I only know of a single straight six Bronco in Fargo, it is just a frame. But I might go see if I can go pull some measurements. I don't know the guy so it may not be possible.

But for unibody cars there is a bit if wiggle room. Which is what I was playing with in the picture that I took of my boy. I took measurements of the engine mount holes on relation to the unibody holes. Depending not how these first mounts turn out I may consider building entirely new frame/motormounts that do not use any original parts.

For another project I also have a need for some motor mounts to out a 300 into a 67 Mustang. I have about three months before I will be able to drive my 68 Mustang (its winter here) and in that time I am going to pull the current motor/transmission (not a six, needs some internal engine work) and while that is out I will install a 200/C4, upgrade that to a 250. Somewhere in that process I will mock mount my 300 for future use in my '67. Lots of pics and measurements will be taken and posted.
1968 Mustang Daily Driver Rebuild (on hold for the Season 3/1/2015)
1963.5 Falcon Convertible Build (just getting started 3/15/2015)
Case 1830 Skidsteer FordSix Repower Thread (started 4/4/2015)
1970 170/C4
1967 200/C4
1965 240/bellhousing/flywheel/clutch/3.03 bell pattern
1975 250/flexplate
1975 300/flywheel

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Re: Small Six Motor Mount Dimensions

Post #5 by bubba22349 » Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:34 am

:hmmm: Do Like your design a lot and with the multi bolt holes too adapt for all the sixes. I have a question though why have the slotted holes on both sides of the engine adapter? This might allow too much movement when engine torques and or may let the engine be mounted closer to one side of the chassis. Maybe use it on only one side or use one or two drill sizes bigger than bolt dia. I do think that you could bend the parts fairly easy each from a single piece of sheet metal. Use to know a formula for the radius, it should be easy enough to find. The measurements need to be adjusted some as the part would gain a small amount to width with each of the bends. About the only welding needed would be the tube to lower mount. Good luck :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Small Six Motor Mount Dimensions

Post #6 by CoupeBoy » Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:55 am

The hydraulic brake at work cannot quite bend tight enough for the bottom bracket, so I may have to modify it a bit, or make it a 2 peice design so that one of the sides gets welded on. I am also going to research other bending options. Like maybe have a press die built out of our 1" scrap so I can use a shop press.

The slots... At first I was thinking about just having 4 holes there instead of 2 slots. Today I bought a handful of 5" 3/8" grade 5 bolts and 4' of 1/2" tubing. The tubing cut at 3.5" fits stock 68 Mustang bushing inside bushing diameter perfectly and the inside is the perfect size for the bolt. So when tightened up, the steel sleeve will be compressed between the outer bracket. Metal on metal and torque down *should* hold it in place and give the option to move side to side if a person wants to. I was planning on having the inside edge of the slot the right width for a 200 and the outside width correct for a 250.

Fwiw, I won't drill any holes, I will work with another of our forum members to have a CAD program written (dxf or dwg) and have it cut on the plasma table at work, out of our normal production scrap.

Which reminds me, if the tubing thickness is 12g. What would be a good thickness for the brackets?
1968 Mustang Daily Driver Rebuild (on hold for the Season 3/1/2015)
1963.5 Falcon Convertible Build (just getting started 3/15/2015)
Case 1830 Skidsteer FordSix Repower Thread (started 4/4/2015)
1970 170/C4
1967 200/C4
1965 240/bellhousing/flywheel/clutch/3.03 bell pattern
1975 250/flexplate
1975 300/flywheel

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Re: Small Six Motor Mount Dimensions

Post #7 by bubba22349 » Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:05 am

If you used 3/16 up to 1/4 inch material should be plenty
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Small Six Motor Mount Dimensions

Post #8 by CoupeBoy » Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:14 pm

I was up way too late last night... anyhow, at my work desk now I have these pictures downloaded from ebay of another somewhat famous engine mount setup. it uses slots and I have not heard (nor have I looked for) any problems with them having slots, and i would guess that the motors they are used with are slightly larger with more HP than most small sixes..
$(KGrHqR,!hoE82zwnusKBPb7dpi3bQ~~60_12.jpg

$(KGrHqZ,!gwE9T96KBrmBPb7do0ydg~~60_12.jpg


And just because I am a giant tease.. The other forum member took my measurements and created DXF/DWG drawings so I could make my own Strut Tower brace.. If he wants to put his name on this he's more than welcome to, but since I didn't ask if he wanted to be listed, I'm leaving his name out!

The paper drawings are ones that I made, I measured, then created a set from paper, then sent him the coordinates, he graciously sent me back the DXF/DWG. These ones are WAY too thick, the day I had them cut, he happened to be cutting some 3/8" so he just cut these out for me..
IMG-20130102-00420.jpg


I have yet to order the threaded rods and heims. And I still need to figure out what I am doing in regards to the Monte Carlo brace..

And this is a set of motor mount plates based off coordinates that FTF posted on the forum a while back..
IMG190.jpg

IMG194.jpg


If you look at these pictures larger, you will see that plasma cutting does an excellent job on one side, but the backside of the cut can get a bit of splatter. I am willing to live with it, these are untouched, I will hit them with a hand held grinder and they will be perfect for my upcoming engine stand...

Just because I am at work, doesn't mean I don't know how to have a little fun... :lol:
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1968 Mustang Daily Driver Rebuild (on hold for the Season 3/1/2015)
1963.5 Falcon Convertible Build (just getting started 3/15/2015)
Case 1830 Skidsteer FordSix Repower Thread (started 4/4/2015)
1970 170/C4
1967 200/C4
1965 240/bellhousing/flywheel/clutch/3.03 bell pattern
1975 250/flexplate
1975 300/flywheel

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Re: Small Six Motor Mount Dimensions

Post #9 by bubba22349 » Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:02 pm

Very nice on the cowl and tower brace plates :nod: excellent those are very clean cuts it looks like you have some nice equipment there to use :thumbup:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Small Six Motor Mount Dimensions

Post #10 by chad » Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:16 pm

"...how to have a little fun..."

any time I save money brings joy (euphoria). your work equipment would make me ecstatic...
enjoy the free machine time!
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Small Six Motor Mount Dimensions

Post #11 by CoupeBoy » Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:32 pm

Chad,
I had a little free time at work today and I poked through some HUGE PDF files that I bought a while back from eBay, thought you might like to see this.. and by huge, I mean this one has 2488 pages of information, but it is a scanned image of a book, so I can't search for anything in it which makes finding things very difficult.

Early Bronco Motor Mount Setup
EB_Motor_Mounts_CleanedUp.jpg


I removed a bunch of stuff that was not motor mount related, but you can see from these pictures that the parts that make a V8 frame different from a i6 are Parts numbered 5057 and 5058, those brackets are welded to the frame rails.

Parts numbered 6038 are the actual motor mounts and while they have a slightly different shape, the still look like the same dimensions as the Mustang ones I have at home.

For kicks I called O'Reily's and Napa, they didn't even have a listing for it in their catalogs.
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1968 Mustang Daily Driver Rebuild (on hold for the Season 3/1/2015)
1963.5 Falcon Convertible Build (just getting started 3/15/2015)
Case 1830 Skidsteer FordSix Repower Thread (started 4/4/2015)
1970 170/C4
1967 200/C4
1965 240/bellhousing/flywheel/clutch/3.03 bell pattern
1975 250/flexplate
1975 300/flywheel

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Re: Small Six Motor Mount Dimensions

Post #12 by chad » Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:57 pm

neither duz my big box prts co. employer. those R ford and prob unavailable (from ford). I torched off the V8 & put on the I6 when swapping the engine/transm/transf. The V8 'tower' IS a triangle type thing, I still have them, forgot what the 6's wuz like (been a few yrs. the 170 is out of the '70 frame). I can't see it in ur post (yet).

"...finding things (is) very difficult..."
wonder if U could go 2 the original book they came from (index? table of context?)...

keep havin fun, bro! thanks 4 sharin!
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Small Six Motor Mount Dimensions

Post #13 by CoupeBoy » Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:52 pm

Only a mere year later.. I finally finish 1 of them.. :rolflmao:
I had the plates cut last Spring sometime, and they rode around in my pickup or sat in my shop the last 10 months..

Fresh cut plates
Image

Where the plates were supposed to be bent, my first set are off just a little bit..
Image
A set of brackets one without the bushing tube, and a complete setup for one side.
Image

And back to back with a stock mount.
Image
Image

I'm trying to work with a local machine shop to have a batch of these cut/bent (properly) and hope to offer a few sets in the near future.

-ron
1968 Mustang Daily Driver Rebuild (on hold for the Season 3/1/2015)
1963.5 Falcon Convertible Build (just getting started 3/15/2015)
Case 1830 Skidsteer FordSix Repower Thread (started 4/4/2015)
1970 170/C4
1967 200/C4
1965 240/bellhousing/flywheel/clutch/3.03 bell pattern
1975 250/flexplate
1975 300/flywheel

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Re: Small Six Motor Mount Dimensions

Post #14 by Soldmy66 » Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:34 pm

Wow - that is really impressive.

Is there a realistic way to design the mounts to work with either the 200, or the 250 (in a lowered position - to avoid hood clearance issues)?

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Re: Small Six Motor Mount Dimensions

Post #15 by CoupeBoy » Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:47 pm

The second set of slots is for if you wanted the motor to sit lower in the engine bay (144/170/200). Or swap in a 250 with hood clearance.

And if you wanted to move the engine rearward for more radiator/fan clearance you could drill another set of holes in the engine side bracket. Plenty of "meat" up there.

[edited]because I should NEVER reply via cellphone, and I had a bunch of extra stuff in here that was not neccessary. :bang:
1968 Mustang Daily Driver Rebuild (on hold for the Season 3/1/2015)
1963.5 Falcon Convertible Build (just getting started 3/15/2015)
Case 1830 Skidsteer FordSix Repower Thread (started 4/4/2015)
1970 170/C4
1967 200/C4
1965 240/bellhousing/flywheel/clutch/3.03 bell pattern
1975 250/flexplate
1975 300/flywheel

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chad
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Re: Small Six Motor Mount Dimensions

Post #16 by chad » Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:07 pm

"...a mere year later..."
so let's update the lill cherub('s pic too) to a 3 y/o as well.

Lots'a work there! U GO cBoy! Keep up the good work. :thanks: Glad it's purdy much near where U want it!
Looks ideal for someone switchin motors back'n forth at the track for different classes! Imagine that...

I'm still thinkin the '71-'78 Maverick 250 bracket & mount will do it for me. Looked back at my archive (what folks have been tellin me all along) to find these 3 or 4 details spread about. Consoladated now, into a more usable whole, I may move forward. Same ol story, tho - need some $ 1st.

:boom:
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Small Six Motor Mount Dimensions

Post #17 by CoupeBoy » Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:28 pm

One step closer to being able to start producing these for sale.. I built a couple small die presses to bend the brackets on a hydraulic press. I think the brackets turned out a lot nicer than the first ones. FWIW, in order to bend the first ones the guy I had do it "Dan" did what they call break the back. So if you look at the first ones, there is a bend straight down the backside of it through the bolt hole(s). You can see it in this picture, the metal has an "S" curve right down the middle. If you look close enough you can see it on both top and bottom brackets.
Image
Because our brake press dies wouldn't allow such a tight bend without the piece running into the blade/die.

A new set of brackets fresh off the press.
Image
Image
Image

I'm actually pretty excited about the whole ordeal, since I now know I can bend 3/16" steel this way
Because it also paves the way for me to be able to make my other project become easier to do.. A '67-70 T5/AOD crossmember. (it bolts together). The only tricky part was how to bend the center piece where the transmission mount bolts down.
Image
Image
1968 Mustang Daily Driver Rebuild (on hold for the Season 3/1/2015)
1963.5 Falcon Convertible Build (just getting started 3/15/2015)
Case 1830 Skidsteer FordSix Repower Thread (started 4/4/2015)
1970 170/C4
1967 200/C4
1965 240/bellhousing/flywheel/clutch/3.03 bell pattern
1975 250/flexplate
1975 300/flywheel

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chad
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after market transmission x-member (auto or man.) for ......

Post #18 by chad » Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:24 pm

"...A '67-70 T5/AOD crossmember...
'67 -'70 'stang?

and for the
'90 - '00 T5???
'76 - '89 AOD/EAOD???

Thanks.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: Small Six Motor Mount Dimensions

Post #19 by CoupeBoy » Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:12 pm

I think you have the wrong years for the AOD/AODE. But yes, it should work for any of them. The measurements that were used to make mine were pulled from a commercially available crossmember that was made from tubular steel. The crossmember will physically bolt into any Mustang ('65-70) however I never built an e-brake bracket for the '65/66. But if you have a '65/66 and have reconfigured your ebrake cables. This crossmember should work perfect.

From
Ford AOD transmission -- wikipedia
It looks like the AOD was first used in 1980, and I would say the cut off year should be the last year for a Windsor SBF.
1968 Mustang Daily Driver Rebuild (on hold for the Season 3/1/2015)
1963.5 Falcon Convertible Build (just getting started 3/15/2015)
Case 1830 Skidsteer FordSix Repower Thread (started 4/4/2015)
1970 170/C4
1967 200/C4
1965 240/bellhousing/flywheel/clutch/3.03 bell pattern
1975 250/flexplate
1975 300/flywheel

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chad
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Re: Small Six Motor Mount Dimensions

Post #20 by chad » Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:19 pm

"...the wrong years..."
Yes, just urgin 4 something a lill more concise & some clarity, that could be of use here:
ie -

stamped steel transmission x-member available to moders to place a:
1980 - '93 AOD/EOD
into a
1965 - 1970 Mustang.
E brake cable re-routing needed on '65 & 6 vehicles.


Is that right?
What about the T5? There may B a larger percentage of folk interested in that...
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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CoupeBoy
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Re: Small Six Motor Mount Dimensions

Post #21 by CoupeBoy » Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:35 am

Alrighty folks, another 12 months have passed and I still haven't used a set of these.. I did send off a set to a guy, but hasn't needed them yet either..
Luckily I had a small fire under my took-us created by these guys,
Worries About Hitting: Carb Touching Shock Tower -- FordSix Forum
So after a lot of other life delays, I finally got 2 full sets created, finished, and painted.
And here are some build pics.

Cut some new plates
The other brackets in this picture which are NOT small six motor mount brackets are as follows from left to right
Small Six Engine lift bracket (bolts to rear passenger side of some heads that have throttle linkage pads)
The BIG bracket is a Ford 240/300 lift bracket that bolts onto the intake/exhaust bolts.
The small one on the top right is a single hole lift bracket, originally designed to be used on a Ford 240/300, but I suppose it could be used anywhere..
Then the bottom brackets are the ones to be used in building small six motor mounts.
Image
For those that don't know, plasma cutting leaves a little 'blow out' or slag on the bottom side when its done. These plates are fresh from the CNC table, no grinding has been done on them yet.
Small bracket
Front Side
Image
Back Side
(bolts to frame bracket)
Image
Big Bracket
(bolts to engine)
Front
Image
Back
Image
This time I was lucky enough that the CNC Brake press operator at work bent the big brackets for me
Image
For the small brackets, I was not so fortunate, so I used my home made press brake jig
Image
This is the backside of the small bracket after the plasma slag has been ground off
Image
The downside to the small bracket is that I had the large holes cut to be almost exactly the same diameter as the tubing that I want to put through the hole.
In every case I have had to use some sort of die grinder to open up the hole after I had bent he bracket. This is mostly because the hole edge closest to the bend is deformed slightly during the bending process.

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CoupeBoy
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Re: Small Six Motor Mount Dimensions

Post #22 by CoupeBoy » Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:35 am

Some of you may recall that I bought one of the cheap spark boxes from Harbor Freight recently, I did a write up on it.
HF 90Amp Flux Core MIG review -- FordSix Forum
That is what I used to do the welding.
My coworkers say that we have some spray here at work that I should start using to prevent splatter balls (BBs) from sticking to the metal in unwanted areas, I really should try it one of these days.
Not the greatest weld, I fixed the gaps later before grinding
Image
It got toasty warm, it was hard to grab the camera and take the picture so fast, so the image is blury :?
Image
I ground that flat and used a grinding stone to remove most of the welding slag from the center hole
Image
Repeat the same process for the other side and then I ended up with this
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I applied some Valspar Black primer/paint to the whole thing and got this
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And then repeated the process 3 more times (to make 2 complete sets)
Here are the components in various states of building.
Raw flat plates on the right, followed by bent unfinished plates in the middle, along with a section of the tubing used to hold the bushing, and a 3.5" long 7/16" OD piece of tubing that is used as a spacer in the center of the bushing. The rubber bushings are standard/stock 1968 Mustang bushings, I assume they are the same for all Mustangs that use 2.5" wide leaf springs. And then on the far left are (almost) enough brackets to make 2 full sets of motor mounts. I say almost because the 4th and final small bracket was still hanging up after getting painted.
Image
1968 Mustang Daily Driver Rebuild (on hold for the Season 3/1/2015)
1963.5 Falcon Convertible Build (just getting started 3/15/2015)
Case 1830 Skidsteer FordSix Repower Thread (started 4/4/2015)
1970 170/C4
1967 200/C4
1965 240/bellhousing/flywheel/clutch/3.03 bell pattern
1975 250/flexplate
1975 300/flywheel

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CoupeBoy
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Re: Small Six Motor Mount Dimensions

Post #23 by CoupeBoy » Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:36 am

And viola! A fully assembled small six motor mount. In this picture the bolt hole being used is the one that would be used if you swapped in a 250, or wanted to lower your 144/170/200 an inch.
Image
Image

turbo2256b
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Re: Small Six Motor Mount Dimensions

Post #24 by turbo2256b » Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:13 pm

I rember putting a 250 in my 70 mustang orig engine was a 200. Only motor mounts I could find at the time were like for a 170 in a falcon or mustang. They sat too far rearward in the frame to allign up with the block. Solution was moving the engine back like a inch and a half give or take. Just shortened the drive shaft the amount then cut the ends off the trany mount and welded the left side on the right and viseversa for the left. All worked fine.

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Re: Small Six Motor Mount Dimensions

Post #25 by CoupeBoy » Thu Mar 26, 2015 1:16 pm

Nobody makes replacement motor mounts for the '69 or 70 cars with 250's
But if they did, they would exactly like this set that my father in law pulled out of his '69 Mustang when he "upgraded" from a 250/3.03 to a 289/4spd (yes I am still annoyed at him, but at least I got the mounts)
Image
250 mounts are the front set
Image
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'69 250 mounts on the top, an Oz 250 mount on the bottom (slightly grey/greenish)
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Just look at how much more 'beef' there is in that 250 mount compared to this stock 200 frame/motor mount
Image

I measured the setback once, I'll see if I can find the thread. If I can't find the thread, I'll re-measure them tonight.
Take a gander at this thread
250 Motor Mounts -- FordSix Forum
Forum Member "Econoline" posted the following picture, and you can see that the frame bracket hold down bolt is at least 1" rearward from the engine block mount bolts. Which would be pretty much what you said you had problems with.
Econoline wrote:Here are the 1970 Mustang 250 motor mounts I have.
Image
Image


Now my assumption (when I find my original measurements or when I get home) is that the stock 250 frame side brackets already have this difference built into them. So that when the motor is installed the bellhousing is virtually in the same location as a 200 or even a SBF. But when you were mixing and matching a stock 170/200 mount the offset worked against you.

Now if that is the case, you could still use the mounts I made, but you'd want to drill a second set of holes in them.
The big bracket that bolts to the engine has enough material that you could easily drill a hole 1" forward or rearward of the original/center mount holes.
Image
Measurements for the 250 mounts are on this thread from eons ago (circa 2005)
Fitting the 250
coupeboy wrote:I need to get some more pics to help with this description.
Frame and Motor mount comparison
Parts compared
'67 Mustang
C7ZA-6037-A (frame mount)
C7ZA-6038-C (Blue*)
C7ZA-6038-H (Green)

'69 Mustang
C9ZA-6037-B (frame mount)
C9OA-6038-D (mount)
C9OZ-6038-B (also on mount)

Setup
I used a peice of 2 by 2 angle iron for the measuring jig. I started by drilling the lowest hole into the angle iron. I then put a bolt through the hole with the nut left lose so I could swing the assembly. I used the '67 frame and motor mount for the next step. I put a level along the motor side of the motor mount and when it was straight up and down I clamped it with a big pair of pliers and ran a drill down the hole that would be the farthest from the motor to mark the location. I then took the frame mount off the jig and drilled out the hole. After the holes were drilled I bolted teh frame mount to the jig and started measuring.

From the end of the jig to the horizontal motor mount face
'67 9.5
'69 9

With the motor mounts oriented as they would be while holding the motor
From the table to the center of the lowest motor bolt
'67 3 5/16
'69 3

I then tipped the jig over on its side and measured from the counter up to the center of the bolt hole that is closest to the jig.
'67 5 1/4
'69 4 3/4


So according to what I found, the '69 frame and motor mounts should lower the motor 5/16" lower, and they make and adjustment to allow for the wider block. The part that was interesting is the 1/2" setback. I noticed that the '69 frame mounts have oblonged holes in them for additional adjustments. I still need to make measurements for the bolt spacing where it bolts to the frame. You also have to allow for some slight miscalculation of measureing as I did it with a tape measure.
1968 Mustang Daily Driver Rebuild (on hold for the Season 3/1/2015)
1963.5 Falcon Convertible Build (just getting started 3/15/2015)
Case 1830 Skidsteer FordSix Repower Thread (started 4/4/2015)
1970 170/C4
1967 200/C4
1965 240/bellhousing/flywheel/clutch/3.03 bell pattern
1975 250/flexplate
1975 300/flywheel

turbo2256b
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Re: Small Six Motor Mount Dimensions

Post #26 by turbo2256b » Thu Mar 26, 2015 5:55 pm

I kinda like the fact moving the engine back improved handling

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Re: Small Six Motor Mount Dimensions

Post #27 by CoupeBoy » Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:13 pm

Down and to the rear as far as possible both ways.. that's what I'd like to do..
On another forum I read, I guy built his own custom brace for under the engine of his Mustang so he could lower the motor until it almost touched the steering components. He didn't do it specifically for handling, rather the large manual transmission he put in ate the entire transmission tunnel and he needed to get the engine low to maintain a decent angle on the driveline.

Now if I could come up with a way of allowing the engine and transmission to be mated and in the car and then slid back until it almost touches the firewall, that could be interesting.. then theoretically I could tighten all bellhousing bolts before shoving it back. I wouldn't have to worry about space to turn a wrench..

I've been thinking about it because for my '67 Mustang I'd like to install a 300, the installation should be similar to this one by NitrousNick
How to install a 300 in a Mustang/ Falcon -- FordSix Forum (somebody really should make this a sticky -- hint hint)

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