Updates on my Ranchero mods

Hello!
This is a combination of an introduction and performance advice, so I decided to skip the intro forum and go straight for the performance forum. My name is Boedy, and I purchased my 1965 Ranchero earlier this year. I have named him "Julio", so from here on out you will know what I am referring to. All my life I have been terrible about getting multiple vehicles per year, never happy with anything. Keeping cars and trucks for a short time and then selling them. I hate this, but much like a drug addict, I can't seem to stop. Julio is my attempt at rehab. He is my daily driver, my pickup truck, and my toy all in one. So far so good. I have no lust for other cars other than the occasional wondering eye, and of course I can still appreciate awesomeness when I see it! He is a base model with a 200 inline and three on the tree, rusted out floor-boards and bumper mounts, and a great patina.

So, my plans for Julio are to make him a very cool and functional little pickup truck. I've already purchased new V8 front springs, awaiting the money to purchase the new rear leafs. Hopefully this will give enough of a lift, as I want him to set about 3 inches higher than stock. If not, I will address that later. I will be running slightly larger AT tires and so torque is much desired.

So, I am happy to tell you all that I just purchased a 250 inline that I will be swapping in. But before that happens, I will be modding it a bit and possibly doing a full rebuild. So here's where I need a little help. My hopes are to have about 120-140 hp to the ground and lots of torque. I will be installing a mustang t-5 and some sort of rear end that will allow me to have posi-trac. All I am really planning on doing to the engine is to machine the intake to directly accept a 2v carb (likely a Webber), cam it up, headers, and electronic ignition.

Will this get me to my goals? Or will I need to get different pistons, roller rockers, deck the engine, mill the head, bla bla bla? Also of note, the engine is a 1975, so I am assuming that it is not the better cylinder head, should I hold out for the better head or does it not really matter for my power goals?

Boedy

8) to be honest with you, i think you are kind of all over the place with this build. lifting a 2wd truck is one thing, but lifting a ranchero is another. your choice, but you need to make sure the suspension geometry is spot on other wise you will have handling issues.

as to your engine, the 75 head is as good as it gets from the factory. going with the direct mount 2bbl conversion is the best way to go short of trying to set up a 3x1bbl carb system or switching to EFI. since you want low end torque, i suggest a cam that works in the 1000-5000 rpm range with a 110 degree lobe separation angle. classic inlines has a nice dual pattern cam that will work great. this one in fact;

http://www.classicinlines.com/proddetai ... 264-HDP-10

when buying pistons, get a set for a 255 ford V8. they have the right pin diameter for your rods, and the right bore size, but they have a higher compression height to get the top of the piston closer to the block deck. this will raise your compression ratio without having to mill the head or block. make your compression ratio calculations carefully to be sure the ratio doesnt go too high, you dont want more than 10:1 for the street.

Thanks for the advice. I figured I'd stay around 9.2:1 on the compression, 10:1 seems way too high. Am I wrong with this? It gets really hot down here in Atlanta, and I've read that even with 9.5:1, with this heat it will cause unwanted detonation. I still want to run low octane fuel too. So with that said, should I still go for the V8 pistons?

And by the way, I'm not going to do a full on lift of any sort. It's actually impossible without major fabrication. I just want the springs to be less compressed. But, I know your right and I should not go crazy as it will lead to awkward handling. Just think of it sitting about like a stock Ford Ranger, probably even a little less.

Boedy

I hang aout at the wharf with my American buddies, and they just laugh at our Ute Falcons and say get a real Ford truck. My mate Rob says they just can't cope with the regular loads any American farm pickup has to cope with. When Ford made thee Torino based Ranchero, they sold a lot better than the early unibody cars. but the whole idea was a dark alley development. A little Jap full chassis pickup drives better, has more tray room, and often perform and handle better. A good Isuzu or Chevy Luv pickup with a big four cylinder could out perform the stock 250 Falcon pickups right into the 80's and 90's.

Its the whole reason Ford Australia sold so many F100, F150/250/350's. But if you want a little pip squeek truck based on an inferior uni body, they are ways to get it cheaply, and Ford OZ in 1972 to 1973 used a frame lifted 250 ute before they decided an F series truck was a better option. Today, Ford doesn't make four wheel drive uniframe utes because if this. A unibody truck never made any sense in 1965, and doesn't in 2013 either. Even the latest Explorer with unibody still isn't strong enough for towing and general use.


There are a few lifted Ohio George gasser style compact Fairlanes around with early beam front axles. Over in OZ, they just grab an early rusted out XY Falcon 4 X4 and shove the under pinings under Fairlanes or Falcon wagons all the time. Our pickups had longer back trys and shorter cabins since they weren't really Ranchwagons but Ford Courier style econo crap boxes. They use a 5 degree slanted 250 with Dana axles and NP205 low range.


Easy to do. See http://www.truckjungle.com/2012/08/18/a ... n-4x4-ute/

Wow, that's a great looking ute. Thanks for posting that picture xctasy. Here's a link to one like mine (64 or 65) probably modified the same way.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/scott597/7 ... otostream/

For now, that's out of my project range but who knows what the future holds. I know the little ranchero's aren't as capable as even small compact pickup trucks, but this suits my needs just fine. I'm not a farmer, and the biggest thing I'm ever gonna tow will likely be a john boat. I have however had it loaded up nicely several times now, so a need for a pickup is definitely real for me. I have hauled loads of compost, each a little less than a full yard, an old garden tractor, several trips to Lowes and Home Depot, and just recently I carried the 250 complete engine along with the 4,000 lb engine hoist/cherry picker. That last load was probably around 600lbs or more.

Now, I know it's limits (and 600lbs is about it) but it works great for me. I've owned several "real" trucks over the years, and although I used them, the loads typically are never something that my little Julio couldn't handle.

For the back, dearbornclassics.com sells leaf springs with 5 leafs. These should help out with the load carrying capabilities. I'm saving my money for these in hopes of not relying so heavily on my stupid air shocks. I know there bad, no need to tell me.

8) 10:1 is about the limit for a street engine, and i know about heat, i live in southern arizona and the devil comes here on vacation in the summers to cool off a bit. and yes i would still go with the V8 pistons in the 250 block.

Welcom!
Thanks for the post.
I'll B interested to tag along if you keep us up todate on the project!

Sounds like some minor tweakin in all the areas mentioned will bring you success (if the payloads stay down).
* What was the capacity in '65? It has a frame so towing seems fine to (again light) haul.
* Wonder what the tong weight can handle?

I saw a 1st gen Chero mounted on the frame under my avatar (see pic) the Bronk' body had cancer and the surgeon hadta cut away. It had some rocker panels coming down for a lill disguise. Like to hear more on what "X" shows with the under-side pic.

* Do you have D.&D.S.'s Manual for ideas on slippin the 250 into that sm space?

Set of airlift air bags (or helper springs) could fix that problem pump them up when you need to haul a load rest of the time you will have a good ride.

Well.... I figured it was time for an update. A LOT of things have happened, but I am far from finished with him. So, here it is:
I have replaced nearly everything in the front end. Springs, control arms, all ball joints, steering gear box, you name it, it is now new and well broken in. So here is my opinion on the nice, new front end:

1. After roughly a year of driving with the new components, I have decided that as soon as I can afford an upgrade to RRS Front coil over struts, I will do this. The suspension and overall front end setup of 1965 is terrible. I feel every little bump in the road through both my chassis and the steering wheel. I wish my original front end would have been in reasonable condition so that I could have driven it until the swap to modern components, but it was a rolling death trap and I had to do what was affordable at the time.

2. I LOVE the tires! The General Grabbers are a perfect size, grip, and are very quiet. Last winter during the snowmageddon in Atlanta, I drove all over the place and had no real problem, even with the open axle rear end.

3. Speaking of the rear end, I now have in place an 8" from a '71 Maverick. I completely rebuilt it myself with all new bearings, a Yukon tru-trac posi unit, and 3.55 ring and pinion. Results: I tried to set the lash without the proper tools. After about 200 miles of driving, I am planning on pulling out the insert this Sunday to take it to a shop to have the lash set properly. Hopefully the ring and pinion aren't damaged. The pinion depth is what loosened up on me. If I do need to get new gears, I will likely go on up to 3.80 gears. My T-5 is from a camaro with the S-10 tail-shaft and it has a .72 overdrive. This OD is a bit tall and although it is pretty much fine on the highway, I think with the bigger tires I am running, a little extra gear in the rear end would work out nicely.

4. Speaking of the T-5... I have one installed!!! Okay, so I've already told y'all it is a camaro v-6 trans with S-10 tail-shaft, here are the ratios:
3.75, 2.19, 1.41, 1.00 and 0.72

I am VERY happy with the gearing of the transmission. Happy with the T-5???? Well...it's okay. I mean, I like it...but...it is NOT the magic pill that everyone on here seems to make out like it is. Sure, it is probably the best transmission option we have, but I have read so many glowing reports on here that I was expecting it to have the power of a V8, and the handling prowess of a European sports car. (not really) The fact is, it really helps out with a nice spread of 4 gears instead of three and the added overdrive of a 5th gear is real nice on the interstate. That's it. Nothing more. I think the big problem with people thinking it is ALL CONSUMING AND MASSIVELY AMAZING!!!!!!!... is that they seem to be installing the T-5 while still keeping an open rear axle. I did my T-5 conversion at the same time that I did my 8" posi trac conversion. So, while others experienced shredding their passenger side rear tire... I simply hooked up and went. Don't get me wrong, if I rev it and dump the clutch I can get it to bark nicely, but the only time I've gotten a full rotation or more is when it was wet out. And that was ALL CONSUMING AND MASSIVELY AMAZING!!!!!!!... The feel of a posi rear end getting sideways while still propelling your forward is freakin' great! But, Julio still only has 70 horsepower. And no amount of gearing or extra gears will change that.

Don't get me wrong, I like the T-5 and I'm glad I did it, but it was a hell of a lot of money and it is not as great as some have stated IMO. I think they were just a little star struck because they could spin their tire.

5. Now it is time for the engine. Well, that is after I install a cable-X box for my speedo to work, and install new leafs in the rear, and bla bla bla. But anywhoo... I have a nice, freshly prepped cylinder head from the early '80s, a Carter RBS (?) carb that I believe flows 215 CFM, and Stainless dual out headers. When I get a cam and HEI ignition, I will update the engine and take Julio back to the same dyno I went to before to see what the gains are. My hope is that I will be able to break the 100HP mark. We'll see...

spring rates have a lot to do with the feel of the front suspension, so before spending $2000 on a completely new front suspension, that will probably ride very similarly to what you have now, get your spring rates right and see what happens. often times people replace the stock front springs with the 620lb/in springs used in the shelby mustangs, and then have to wear a kidney belt when they drive the car, when they should have used the stock 480lb/in GT spring and would have had a much better ide quality.

as for the T5, remember that most people are replacing the stock 2.77 3sp trans. which means they get two more gears, and far more flexibility in day to day driving. they generally also replace the column shifter with a floor shifter, so everything does in fact feel much better with the T5.

X2 getting too stiff of springs and or stocks really hurts the ride. are you still going to swap in the 250? The extra torque of a 250 would work much better for your planed use. Good luck on the build.

As far as the springs up front go, I started out with V8 springs. BIG mistake. I took them off immediately and now I am just running new stock springs. So, as it is, is as good as it gets for the stock setup.

And with the T-5 conversion, I also went from a 2.77, 3 on the tree setup. Like I said, I like it better with the T-5. But it is far from amazing. The car is still what it is. Get my meaning? Yeah, it’s better, but… what’s that whole thing about polishing a turd?

I’m just trying to be realistic about it, that’s all. I love my little pickup. I have turned down offers of $10,000. Seriously. I’m not kidding. I want to drive this thing until I die. But people make it sound like the T-5 is the answer to all the woes of our little sixes, when in fact it is just one nice sized piece of a much larger puzzle. Let’s face it, there is a LOT of things that we all want to update on our old rides. But is the T-5 the hands down best upgrade? I’m not convinced of that is all I’m saying. So far for my money, the best upgrade has been the posi rear end. The thing is just awesome. Keep in mind, I use mine as a very very light duty little pickup. Just last weekend, I took my son out to ride his new/old dirt bike for the first time. I had no hesitation about driving down a little trail and going through some really soggy bits and some small mud holes to get to the open area. The posi worked like a charm. While the T-5, fresh from a rebuild mind you, is not exactly quiet or smooth (especially if you gear change too soon), and the 5th gear is almost never used by me because I rarely go above 55mph. So, I’m kinda like– Was it worth it? Well, the answer for me is yes– but mostly because I could have never lived with the curiosity of what it could be like if I didn’t do it. Now that I know both sides, hmm, I don’t think it was worth all of the work, hassle, and mainly– money to do the swap.

The bike by the way is a 1974 Kawasaki Trail Boss. We’ve been fixing it up since Christmas. It’s a hoot.

too stiff of springs and or stocks really hurts the ride

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Wait a minute, I just read that. You mean there is something out there softer than stock? Will it still give me the ride height I want?

I’ve still got the 250 block on my engine stand. For now, I think I’ll be happy with a lightly modded 200. But I am starting my new job in a week and will likely start to slowly build the 250 for on down the road.

well yes there probably are some other Models that would have softer then the stock Falcon Ranchero's & Falcon Wagons spring rates it would take some detective work to find them. Off the top of my head I would say the Falcon 2 & 4 door cars should have a softer spring rate. Personally I rarely change front springs out as long as they are still both standing at the same height I like them well used (I.E. And now they are also softer then stock) I then use some good shocks (Gas adjust type) along with the right sway bars and tires to get the ride and handling I am after, with time and many spring cycles your springs will loosen up some eventually too.

However to get the ride height that your after is all together another problem, and could get into some custom chassis work and welding. For the rear axel it is fairly easy to gain 3 inches by cutting off the spring pads and remounting them so the axel is under the springs like is on the F100 / F150's. If that's not enough height next add some steel or Aluminum blocks and longer U bolts to get another 1 to 3 inches be sure to set the pinion angle correctly before welding the spring pads back on. For the front you could cut and lower the spring towers 3 inches or do the reverse of a Shelby LCA drop that would raise it about 1 or 1 1/2 inches or you could do a combo of the two. You could also use some spring blocks (Spacers) on top of the front coil springs. If you want it still higher then you can swap in an Econoline I Beam front axel and set of semi elliptic springs or even a straight tube axel, I have the first type under my 63 Fairlane drag car it rides pretty well but it doesn't go around corners as good the stock front suspension.

The only 5 speed I have right now is in my 94 F150 I do like it. Though unless I am on the freeway I don't really need 5th, yet it's nice to know its there when it's needed. I haven't done a T5 swap to a small six yet, all mine in the past were 3 speeds or the CruseOMatic's which I also like. In my opinion though even a later style Top Loader three speed, a T10, or a Top Loader 4 speed, and the T5, they all have sincro's in every gear and that fact alone is a real big improvement over driving one of the old 2.77's 3 speed's. To me if you drive a lot of Hyway miles or have really low rear gears then a T5 should be a great improvement, perhaps your final drive ratio is not low enough yet, especially if you happen to have really tall tires.

Glad that you still might go with the 250 I think you would really like it! Its quite abit of work to install one of them in an early Falcon but it's well worth it, and I am planing on doing one soon too. Good luck on the Ranchero

Rancheros are cool and great light duty pickups in my opinion.
There might be something wrong with your T5. My friend has a v8 Mustang and T5 and it shifts fast, smooth and does not make noise. Some cities have spring shops that can re-arch rear springs for different ride heights and they might know where to get front springs that will give you some lift and fit properly and ride ok.

Transmissions don't have "power" - they're just gear reduction to turn more engine revs into fewer wheel revs. It's totally possible to have nice ratio spacing but still have terrible ratios. Those seem like VERY tall ratios for a little ol' 200 - even V6 Camarobirds made WAY more power than a 200 ever did, and a 3.55 rear end is a pretty tall rear end to couple with that transmission. You'd really want something like 3.73 gears in there or something, maybe even shorter (although the 250 will help a lot). With that rear end and a 200, I probably would have gone with a four cylinder T5 from a TurboCoupe or SVO. The ratios would be much more in tune with your engine/diff combo. In short, the reason you're not getting crazy burnouts is because your gearing is much too tall.

That said, the T5 was *never* a good transmission. It was a first stab at 5-speed for domestics and not much else. It doesn't handle a lot of power, it doesn't shift very well, and it isn't terribly quiet. There is a reason Ford put the European T9 into the XR4Ti instead of the T5 that already worked with the 2.3t... because the T9 is a much newer, much more refined transmission. The right shifter will improve what you feel (I like the Triax), but if you want elegance and quick shifting, you're off on the wrong foot with the T5. If you want cheap and reasonably compact with decent power handling, the T5 is a solid option - and it fits the Falcon with little work. It's quick & dirty, not the technically best option.

T-5 not a good transmission :arg: , and you use a car that didnt last as long as the run of the T-5 , Opinions are like , well , this is the biggest problem with this board , too many opinions not enough facts and experience to back up the Bull , There ARE a Few on here that are worth listing to , the others , not so much.

That's why ford went to the tremec trans in 1998 on the cobra.
I don't know if the standard mustang went that route.
My 1989 5.0 with the T-5 trans was a piece of crap.
When I shifted any borg warner T-10 used in older fords & chevys it was a like a hot knife cutting through butter.
Just remember any good shifting trans is dependent on a decent clutch combo.

The regular Mustangs kept the T5 until the S197*, but as with the 4th gen Camarobirds, the T5 could not handle the output of the bigger motors (SVTs, etc.) reliably so they switched to the T56. At the time, the strongest T5s were only rated to 310 lb ft which wasn't going to stand up to SBCs of the day. Hell, my "car that didn't last as long as the T5" is pushing that.

* The T5 sort of continued on with the S197, but it got a remote shifter, a CSC (concentric slave cylinder) a counter balanced driveshaft flange (no slip yoke), and new ratios. It's still only rated for 350lb ft, far less than the T56/T6060, and I think only used in the V6s.

You can love the T5 as much as you like, but go drive even a contemporary Getrag 260 to feel was an '80s 5-speed *should* feel like. As it turns out, just because something was made for a long time doesn't actually mean it was good. Sometimes it just means it was cost-effective - which the T5 certainly was. Cheap and light are the T5's calling cards, not shift quality or power handling. And, again, I intentionally put one in my car for that reason - because it was $50 and it fit. And I'd put one in my Falcon (should Ye Olde 2-speed ever die) for the exact same reason.

Edit: And for the record, the XR4Ti only lasted *here* for a couple years. The exact-same Ford Sierra was sold for two full generations on the same platform in Europe, and generated numerous successful, high-profile performance variants. Just because Ford dealers in the '80s couldn't pull their heads out of their butts doesn't mean the XR was a bad idea or a poorly executed car. It was every bit the car the BMW 3-series was - and I've multiples of each.

thesameguy":enhwvyo9 said:

That said, the T5 was *never* a good transmission. It was a first stab at 5-speed for domestics

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no it wasnt. the first domestic 5 speed transmission was the saginaw T50 in the late 70s. the T5 was teh first borg-warner attempt at a 5 speed.