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new 3.3l performance build going for 200+ flywheel HP

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autoX65
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new 3.3l performance build going for 200+ flywheel HP

Post #1 by autoX65 » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:10 pm

I got the 3.3l block back from the machine shop this last Wednesday and it looks solid. I painted it black and when I post the pics its one of the nicer ones and hopefully it will last me another 50 years.

The head is taking some time with my builder just because it sure is not cheap to build and he couldn't get any of the parts so I gave him the works for my 73 4.1L bronco head that's getting the brazed intake for 2v race holley, port divider, stainless valves, bronze guides , hardened seats, dual springs , viton seals, modified combustion chambers, milled head for increased compression ratio.

head studs. new camshaft will be ordered this week and hopefulley can pick up my head early next week to get my 65 mustang running again by this month.

I've driven this car only with the stock 200 set up so I can't wait to see the difference with the two barrel conversion, large log and finally ditching the stock camshaft :)

I took the engine apart last week from the running and driving car so I hope this goes smoothly and there will be some great pictures to come over this next week so stay tuned!

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Re: new 3.3l performance build going for 200+ flywheel HP

Post #2 by bmbm40 » Sat Jun 21, 2014 4:22 pm

Sounds good. It's probably going to be really fast.
66 Bronco-1970 250, NV3550, DSII, 4 turn ps, uncut, 1" bl, 2.5" sl, front disc, twin stick D 20, 30 x 9.50
NEXT- direct mount 1.08 on D8 head, power brakes, rear limited slip, 3G, electric fan, electric upgrades, custom curved DSII, header, 31" tires

New guy? Get the Falcon Performance Handbook and Ford six high performance parts from https://vintageinlines.com

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Re: new 3.3l performance build going for 200+ flywheel HP

Post #3 by my way » Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:48 pm

Headers and exhaust would really get the most of all that work :D
My way

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Re: new 3.3l performance build going for 200+ flywheel HP

Post #4 by xctasy » Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:59 pm

Easy.

Aussies have been doing it for years

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=51246&p=411812#p411812

viewtopic.php?t=5554

Little old GM L6's with just 179, 186 and 202 cubic inch engines with 9 port heads (ours are 12 port, really) have been into the 240 flywheel hp plus era before 1968, and stock streeters and rails with restricted modifications were into the 200 plus flywheel barrier with out tubing headers and just 2-bbl 4412 Holley 500cfm carbs. So copying 50 years of that kind of hp is easy to translate to our Ford Small Sixes. And there is the 250, a factory stroker engine which has so much latent potential, its insane.


You'll love the fact that Mike at CI has done all the development work for us, we just have to follow the Falcon Six performance book, and AzCoupes Classic Inlines website with its dyno runs and detail, and your into 235 rear wheel hp from a 200 with ease. Even with a log 170, you can get 280 hp.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: new 3.3l performance build going for 200+ flywheel HP

Post #5 by autoX65 » Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:07 am

its a great block to work with and always thought it was such a bullet proof design all inline. its a very nice quality cast and Will be the second time I have rebuilt this engine. I Have always drove the car with only all stock engine built to original specs with reground factory camshaft and kept it performance tuned. I really liked the usable rpm range of the engine and still was able to drive the engine as hard as I wanted and was great so I was still happy with the performance of the stock engine.

the engine is from my 65 mustang coupe with 8 inch rear limited slip 3.73 from 67 fastback so is an inch wider on both sides with explorer 8.8 inch disk brakes. granada front spindles with disk brakes, 1 inch adaptor spacers, total control products adjustable tie rods, pro motor sports engineering negative wedge camber kit with 2 inch shelby drop, 4.5 grab a track reverse eye leaf springs with 2 inch lowering blocks.

going in with the motor is a freshly rebuilt 1965 small bell c4 1800rpm stall converter, 1970 c4 v8 internal drums and clutch packs with 5 on 5 friction plates in Hi and Low/Reverse clutch, R servo, case oil and pump pressure modifications, wide kevelar rear band, wide asbestos intermediate band and custom machined valve body.

so the 1965 engine they say has 120hp 190lbs of torque so I think doubling the hp is very possible with a larger cylinder head heavily ported on the exhaust runners and bowls nice and blended on intake, large valves and something I haved not been able to find much info on is a holley 2305 progressive two barrel 500cfm with annular boosters primary venturing has 55 jet and mechanical secondary venturi has a 73 jet so I think naturally aspired with this set up it will have good fuel and air
being vaporized into the chambers so with headers and exhaust I think it will over double stock power ratings and be in the 250 hp and importantly what kind of torque could be had because I'm thinking it could be easily 300-350 lbs of torque naturally aspirated with a great low end on the single barrel until secondaries kick in I think it will be a light and fast car.

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Re: new 3.3l performance build going for 200+ flywheel HP

Post #6 by xctasy » Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:31 am

autoX65 wrote:...I haved not been able to find much info on is a holley 2305 progressive two barrel 500cfm with annular boosters primary venturing has 55 jet and mechanical secondary venturi has a 73 jet so I think naturally aspired with this set up it will have good fuel and air
being vaporized into the chambers...



I have. The 2305 is a mechanical secondary carb which has a pretty big flat spot in transition to secondary, but nothing that a little I6 can't handle. 4 cylinder Pinto owners have noticed that its noticeably worse than the Weber 32/36 and Holley~Weber 5200/5210/5220/6500/6510/6520 clan on primary to secondary operation. It doesn't stop the carb being one of the best for 79-81 carb 2.3 turbo replacements for those Fox turbos, with a few very good cars using it for auto X.

Enjoy the fun in having as far as the engine and everything except the head, a numbers match T code, well done!
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: new 3.3l performance build going for 200+ flywheel HP

Post #7 by autoX65 » Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:48 am

yeah its all the right parts and have spent some good money on it all but of course head limitations, hopefully ill track down one of the bolt on Australian heads with the 2 barrel cast intake I just did not want to modify my block.

I did a real nice rebuild on the carburetor and everything is pretty adjustable on it so I hope it does not have to bad of a flat spot while the secondaries open but I really feel it will work great. any tuning tips on the 2305 for the ford six? I hope to get pictures up this coming week.

of course camshaft will be ordered this week and I'm debating wanting to try a reverse split pattern with more duration on the intake to help it with all those 90 degree turns in the log intake.

I hear good things about more duration on the exhaust with a split pattern having good results on the log head. maybe 268 intake 262 exhaust on a tight lobe center
most likely even less duration but I'm looking for around 1500-5500 rpm range so any input on the reverse split pattern cam in this engine since I know they are used in applications that have crippled intake systems and do help hp numbers as well as they are used in boosted applications to limit overlap that helps limit exhaust
reversion so you don't get exhaust fumes sneaking up into the intake during overlap periods but how about in naturally aspirated does anyone have test experience with it in this engine. I'm leaning around 264/264 108 lobe center or isky has a 262/262 110.

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Re: new 3.3l performance build going for 200+ flywheel HP

Post #8 by 62Ranchero200 » Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:07 am

@autoX65,

I run a 108 C/L cam (the CI 274/274/108) in my 250. Even with a TCI advertised 2,500 stall speed converter (which stalls at a lower RPM with my six, as all converters do) on my C4, the 250 has a rough idle in gear. It never dies at idle - just idles low and rough - about 750 RPM with about 6" of vacuum. That effect would be more pronounced on your 200, so don't install a 108 C/L cam unless you're ok with the rough idle. In park, the 250 idles quite smoothly at about 1,100 RPM with 12" of vacuum.

Most of the time, I put a very small amount of pressure on the gas pedal at stop lights, to smooth out the idle a bit, raising it to maybe 900 RPM.

Thanks
Bob
62 Ranchero, 252 cid, 300 rods, RaceTek pstns, ARP mains bolts & studs, balanced & blueprinted, CI AL head, 1.6 adj rckrs, Smith Bros, 274/274/108 cam, CI int, Holley 500, DSII, CI SS hdrs, PowerMaster strtr and 1wire alt, Optima, V8 rad, T-5z, 10" organic clutch, 5 lug 8" w/3.80 Trac Loc, rear drums, front 5 lug discs, Centerlines. Next: ?.

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Re: new 3.3l performance build going for 200+ flywheel HP

Post #9 by rbohm » Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:52 pm

autox, where did you get the holley 2305 you are going to use? that seems to be the carb i want for my fairmont, but in the 350cfm size.
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Re: new 3.3l performance build going for 200+ flywheel HP

Post #10 by autoX65 » Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:34 pm

I had been tracking down that carburetors for awhile and found it on craigslist in Ohio and had it shipped to California. the carburetors was good condition but does have some age but limited use and wear so after the rebuild and intense day tuning and adjusting secondary linkage, electric choke fast idle cam settings were hard as I had to modify the linkage to get it to my liking. so ik excited to use that carburetor and see how it runs but if anyone knows what years they are from I would like to know.

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Re: new 3.3l performance build going for 200+ flywheel HP

Post #11 by autoX65 » Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:46 pm

after the first stock rebuild with the 200 my idle was 850rpms and could never get it lower but I ran initial timing from 6-12 degrees usually and would be noticeable top end increase at 12 and I would run it at six before to keep the idle down a little and better low end economy but I could never seem to get it down as low as advertised 550-600 rpms with all stock parts even.

so I don't mind if I even run a 900 rpm idle to smooth it out and keep vaccum up at idle. I should be running 16-18 degrees initial on the rebuild and vaccum advance hooked up to manifold vaccum to keep the idle down or maybe even disconnect vaccum advance so I know it'll take some tuning before its all correct but I hope to get away with a 108 lobe with smaller durations like the 262/262 especially with a ported exhaust the flow numbers on classic inline would make it ideal to run a single patter then foe this set up.

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Re: new 3.3l performance build going for 200+ flywheel HP

Post #12 by rbohm » Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:42 pm

what is the list number for that carb?
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Re: new 3.3l performance build going for 200+ flywheel HP

Post #13 by autoX65 » Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:26 pm

carburetors is a 0-80095. im just having trouble uploading to photo bucket off my phone so if I can email them to someone and they would kindly put the images in this thread so eveyone can see the engine so far. bad timing but computer just crashed so stuck with the phone till this week.

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Re: new 3.3l performance build going for 200+ flywheel HP

Post #14 by autoX65 » Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:57 pm

can some one please message me your email and I can send some pictures I need to post on here.

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Re: new 3.3l performance build going for 200+ flywheel HP

Post #15 by xctasy » Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:40 am

noe kneed autoX65...the 2305 is a 2300 carb with a custom 32/36/Holley Weber 5200/5210/5220/6500/6520 style base still on the same 2300 series stud pattern.


Image
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http://www.xfalcon.com/forums/index.php ... holley-qs/


viewtopic.php?f=2&t=63427&start=0

'68falconohio wrote:Holley also made a 2305 progressive two barrel you can check out. It came in 350 and 500cfm versions. Most parts interchange with the other 2300 family carbs so it's easier to work on(parts availability, it's a real Holley) than a 32/36 or a 5200. I've been looking for a 500cfm 2305 for my 200ci off and on for a while now with no luck though.

Holley 2305
Image



viewtopic.php?p=220465
xctasy wrote:For those of you casting the drag net, here are some 2305 series 350/500 Holley basics, and part numbers

The 2305 series 350 cfm has Part Number 80120, has standard primary jet 52, secondary 65, power valve is 8.5, and used to have a 37-749 renew kit.

The big bad 2305 series 500 above was part numbered 80095, has standard primary jet 55, secondary 73, power valve is 8.5, and used to have a 37-749 renew kit.


Don't get it mixed up with the older 2300 series as found in old AMC's, International Trucks or as a huge aftermarket replacement for any 2-bbl on a V8 or I6. They are different to the 2305.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: new 3.3l performance build going for 200+ flywheel HP

Post #16 by autoX65 » Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:33 am

just check out my photo bucket please people. mine is not missing parts like that one and wanted to show off my carburetor restoration skills. mines got the center hung float as well which looks much beefier. but check out my block the machine work was amazing and piston are dead on zero deck....its all looking very clean.

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Re: new 3.3l performance build going for 200+ flywheel HP

Post #17 by bubba22349 » Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:08 pm

autox65 you will find the info on how to post pictures in the below link good luck :nod:

viewtopic.php?f=47&t=48863
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: new 3.3l performance build going for 200+ flywheel HP

Post #18 by Econoline » Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:14 am

We need a link autoX65
It ain't gonna fix itself

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Re: new 3.3l performance build going for 200+ flywheel HP

Post #19 by xctasy » Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:33 am

autoX65 wrote:just check out my photo bucket please people. mine is not missing parts like that one and wanted to show off my carburetor restoration skills. mines got the center hung float as well which looks much beefier. but check out my block the machine work was amazing and piston are dead on zero deck....its all looking very clean.


All the info was there, just needed a little url work.

Not a lot of us do facebook, so for those that don't see autox65''s awesome clean up job.

Well done!

ImageImageImage

ImageImage

Image
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: new 3.3l performance build going for 200+ flywheel HP

Post #20 by xctasy » Tue Jun 24, 2014 3:33 am

And the cylinder block

Image

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And cylinder head work


http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b57 ... 066ee7.png
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: new 3.3l performance build going for 200+ flywheel HP

Post #21 by autoX65 » Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:31 pm

I will be assembling the short block this evening so should have some more pics tonight. hopefully get it fired up by the end of this month is my goal!

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Re: new 3.3l performance build going for 200+ flywheel HP

Post #22 by autoX65 » Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:01 am

I did get the short block assembled before midnight yesterday and it looks amazing with perfect clearances and torque sequences on all those main bolts. hope to get some pics fully assembled soon because it should look nice with the upgraded top end so hopefully it will be closer to the 225--250hp range.

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Re: new 3.3l performance build going for 200+ flywheel HP

Post #23 by autoX65 » Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:25 pm

ill be getting the head back again today fRom final machining and welding in the port divider, 2v intake direct mount and a full rebuild. so ill have a solid block and 2 v head to work with that in the future I plan to shave the intake for a custom made bolt on intake that should really help take the 200 to the limit and at that point hope to make this 200 hit over the 300hp mark one day naturally aspirated.

possible pics coming tonight of the fully assembled engine.

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Re: new 3.3l performance build going for 200+ flywheel HP

Post #24 by autoX65 » Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:10 am

so builder was behind schedule on when he said it would be done...I wanted to have this all back together to cruise for the fourth of July but just the way my project is going....I was hoping to have it running again quick with the mods but I spoke with him today and he said I can pick it up tomorrow so I can't wait to see how it looks all assembled and ill post a picture asap :)

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Re: new 3.3l performance build going for 200+ flywheel HP

Post #25 by autoX65 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:27 am

okay so finally got all the engine machine work done...was held up on the head with my machinists but the results were worth the wait. head studs will be in tomorrow so I can have this all together. one problem with the holley 2305 direct mount is the throttle lever is hitting the valve cover and I really hate to cut the bottom of it off. it has two options to mount the throttle so if I cut it I should be in the clear but for future use or if I sell the carb I don't want it to be altered but I don't see another option :( any advise?

other then that its pretty close to installation time hopefully by the end of the month tops!

a few more pics in the photo bucket too and more to come.

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Re: new 3.3l performance build going for 200+ flywheel HP

Post #26 by autoX65 » Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:21 pm

http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/autoX ... ads?sort=3

there's a two barrel under that big air cleaner!

has to modify the carburetor throttle linkage to mount it but everything fits snug.

went with the single springs with dampners. I couldn't find much info on those vs dual springs.

and for corporation I went with 69 jets. idle restriction is at .031 " and power valve channel restriction is at .054. any thought on those jets and any moms neccesary for a 500 holley on a 200ci?


ita coming along nice I've almost got everything assembled but need to get it in the car. hopefully next week have it fired up.

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Re: new 3.3l performance build going for 200+ flywheel HP

Post #27 by xctasy » Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:27 pm

autoX65 wrote:..... one problem with the holley 2305 direct mount is the throttle lever is hitting the valve cover and I really hate to cut the bottom of it off. it has two options to mount the throttle so if I cut it I should be in the clear but for future use or if I sell the carb I don't want it to be altered but I don't see another option :( any advise? ....



Yes. Looks like you have a 3" thick air cleaner. Ditch it, and get a thinner 2 inch air cleaner, and raise the whole carb up on a phenolic spacer the extra inch so the spindle clears.

Although similar to the mechanical secondary version of the 4-bbl 4150/4160 series, I think the primary throttle spindle is exclusive to the 2305 series. When used in the Turbo 2.3 carb, they just used to cut off the base of it. The accelerator pump has to be activated, and you could unbolt the spindle, and replace it with 4150 item, with the accelerator pump arm modified. That would allow you to keep all the parts original, even if the 2305 spindle ended up in your glove box.

Ken Van Accolyen viewtopic.php?f=1&t=70844

had the same problem with his 2300 series #4412 500 cfm carb, same issue but those version of that carb have the linkage spun around, but your dealing with a similar problem to his.....he just bent it a little.

Image



Ultimately, that's why the 2305 carb got no further market, there were to many risks of putting it on a V6 or V8 and strangling one side of the engine. It looks like any 2300 series, but it isn't, and everything that's different messes it around.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=70791


I can give general advice, and that is to use the stock set up jets that the carb came with, and only make changes if it improves air fuel ratios with a gas analyser or wide band.

I can't assist on set up. As one guy (Mr Joshua on FEP) Said on a forum recently

"Real people do real things and have integrity". If I'd tuned one up, I'd give you advice, but I've only done Autolite 1250's, Stromberg-Bendix 1 and 2-bbls, SU'S, Weber 32/36's, ADM 34/34's, 9117 350 and 4412 500 cfm carbs, plus some 4150 4-bbls and Liquid Propane Gas systems. I've only done A-series 850 to 1275 Minis, 1300 cc Kent X-flows, 2.0 Pintos, 138 and 201 cubic inch Vauxhall 12 port I6's, 2.3 Colognes, 202 Holden L6's with Holley's Webers ADM's and Rochestor Varajets, 3.3 and 3.6 and 4.1 log and x-flows, and 4-bbl 351 Cleveland's, 289 Windsors and 350 Chevs. And EEC V EFi systems on 4.0 Colognes. 2305 2-bbls carbs are out side my experience.

I have too many loose ends, but the info on carbs is out there and I can set you in the right direction. The problem is its a mechanical secondary carb, and Holley's like that are easy to rejet and change, but very hard to diagnose unless you use some dyno time and a gas analyser. I don't like the two hole direct mount with a mechanical secondary carb, and there are other issues you have to strategically work through one by one, patiently.

Don't follow any recommendations on this forum related to the 4412 500 cfm, its no where near the same.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: new 3.3l performance build going for 200+ flywheel HP

Post #28 by MustangSix » Fri Jul 25, 2014 8:50 am

1. dimple the valve cover (if you have enough rocker clearance), or;

2. simply cut off the offending protuberance, or;

3. turn the carb the other way and use a longer throttle cable. It doesn't know or care which way it faces as long as the jets are covered with fuel. You may need to add jet extension tubes to prevent starving on acceleration.
Jack Collins

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Re: new 3.3l performance build going for 200+ flywheel HP

Post #29 by autoX65 » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:48 am

man all I want Is to see a video of those carving through my local canyons. if these mods come closer to double the stock output I know ill be real happy.

to anyone considering building this engine its tough to get any "performance " if you will, from it without lots of time and learning curve getting familiar with a 50 year old engine, lots of time to track down and order many parts only available used in classifieds, or from the one and only classic inlines. you have to be a rare bread to want to dump the money it takes to turn the worst performance engine into something a little better. I mean I've got all this way and have 1100 in partaking and labor in the log alone.....and I'm still ashamed when I know I have to run a log. on this engine each little upgrade is so sublime you may not feel the difference if you slowely upgrade along the way.....it has to be all done at once and and for all the effort its just a little hp here a little there.

to anyone building the six I believe its not becausethey plan to resell it after, I'm
well over the 3500 range in engine parts and machine work alone that's no serious labor fees. I've done most of the workmyself and I've built over a dozen classics and this is my first straight six so even with years of experience it took me a year from .
buying the car to get it to this point even though I did drive it stock for 10k miles.

so considering I'm at the point of no return all in on this build I hope I like the upgrades. for the money in this I could have thrown in a really nice 289 with 400 hp. so this is not for everyone but my six is done up right and would last a very long time and it'll be worth it if I can stay in the 20mpg+ range.

anyone considering to upgrade don't get into deep because my end result ill still be barely at 200hp which is not exactly hi performance in a classic mustang or even todays production six cylinders. I wanted to upgraded because that's how my mind works I see a 200 and then I want to see myself take it to the limit. I just hope its worth it and I'm not getting smoked by every car out there.

I hope to be able to have some good videos and a nice break down of the build especially a write out of engine characteristics from stock to how it responds with these mods so hopefully people get a better idea if its for them. classic inlines sure doesn't factor in cost and time compared to nominal hp or tq gains for the money spent. more along the way next week and next weekend will be dedicated to the engine break in and running I'm sure ill have to get a wide band or o2 sensor to get this carburetors dialed in. the more I hear about it the more trouble it seems like people have with it.

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Re: new 3.3l performance build going for 200+ flywheel HP

Post #30 by xctasy » Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:35 am

I didn't, and don't respond to exactly what Holley 2-bbl jetting changes you should go to becasue the ones that are there are liley to be close to perfect, with just a jet or two up or down call size likely to give you splendid results. Unlike the 4412 part number 2300 series 500 carb, the 80095 was probably designed for a 200 hp six cylinder engine just as it comes. It was probably designed for Fords Log headed six, because there has always been unsubstantiated rumor from former FSP member and 1981 Mercury Zephyr 3.3 owner and tuner Mark P that Ford had a 2-bbl Campus/ Police Interceptor Fairmont for domestic use after the Iranian Revolution put the second fuel scare on OPEC gasoline production. Its existence been repeated again recently on other forms.

Stormin' Norman wrote:.....a friend of mine in California, US Navy, also a rare 1982 Cougar wagon owner, has followed my threads on FordSix forums. Anyway he seems to recall that Ford made a police special Fairmont with a 2 BBL manifold 200 CID 6-banger, all cammed up



autoX65 wrote:more along the way next week and next weekend will be dedicated to the engine break in and running I'm sure ill have to get a wide band or o2 sensor to get this carburetors dialed in. the more I hear about it the more trouble it seems like people have with it.



Lets back up. The 2305 is a great carb, but having a mechanical secondary Holley 500 cfm carb is totally different to any other2-bbl Holley, as its not the same as the 2300 in fuel requirements in any way at all. Its not a vacuum secondary carb, either. Its pretty much a downdraft 43/43 mm Weber carb with 35 mm throats (venturis), or like having a really big Holley 1904/Holley 1940/Autolite 1101/Carter YFA primary carb linked to another Holley 1904/Holley 1940/Autolite 1101/Carter YFA mechanical secondary. As such, the 1.375 venturi, 1.6875" throttle is exactly like the biggest single carb found on the 226/261 or 240-300 or 250 engines, and that means the first barrel can make 108 hp, and both open can make 216 hp at 1.5 inches of mercury.

The only thing like it in the Ford empire is the 1982 to 1992 Aussie X-flow 200/250 cubic inch Weber mechanical secondary 34/34 ADM 320 cfm carb with 28/28 but the Holley 2305 500 has with 26% oversized throats (venturis) and throttles. As a carb, the Weber mech sec ADM 34 is a very, very good carb with great fuel economy and very nice primary to secondary modulation. They made big heavy 3000 to 3500 pound intermediate Falcons do 110 mph top speeds, 17.6 to 17.9 second quarter miles, and even when thrashed, they still gave over 20 us mpg. It did service in unleaded 3.3 engines with as little as 117 hp and 174 lb-ft, or high compression leaded fuel engines with as much as 148 hp and 233 lb-ft.

in 1987, Australian Dick Johnston found 197 hp (147 KW) with the 2305 series Holley 500 cfm carb when the 280 degree cam upgraded 2-bbl intake XF SVO engine was being developed by the Brisbane Engine Center. He used a 4.1 engine from his Falcon pickup as the development mule, with x-flow head, Genie headers and it was planned to use 95 ron/mon over 2 octane Shell Optimax (your US 93 AKI) in an unleaded gasoline engine with the earlier 9.35:1 compression ratio car with 2.77 axle and T5 according to Wheels Mag January 87 Dick Johnson's SVO XF Falcon reporter Mike Stahl. The car couldn't meet the cost, 200-215 HP performance targets, emissions and durability targets as a carb unleaded car, so they then went to EFI unleaded, and the project then stalled. Two were built. Ex English F1 engineer Peter Harden's rework of the EFI engine with a better cam and carb made the machine quite a lot quicker, and fun to drive, even with a tall 2.77 axle. In context, the 2-bbl carb Dick Johnston used wasn't a performance limit, it was the 87 US aki (91 ron/mon over 2) fuel, and 1987 emissions regulations that stopped it being made as a warmed up 4.1 with Holley 2-bbl. It ended up with Ford Motorsport branded EFI snorkel and parts, and maybee 6 cars in total were made, but only the first had the modified SVO 4.1 EFI six with Peter Hardens 280 degree cam.

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if you extrapolate it out, a mech sec carb with 56% more cfm should give up to 230 hp with ease if its set up right. In actuality, we've seen 289's with 500 cfm 2300 Holley 2-bbls make 352 hp with the right kind of NASCAR style cam in Historic C Carerra Panamerica 65 Mustangs.

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engi ... to_12.html
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engi ... to_06.html

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And single 2-bbl Weber IDA 48's make 390 hp in Argentina's Tourismo Catterra's with 183 cubic inch I6's. So its not unrealistic to see more than 205 hp Crosley's 15 second early round body log head 200 cube I6 Falcon makes, just using what you have.


The little 2305 350 cfm should be as good as the Weber 34 ADM, and the 500 cfm 2305 should run away faster than any mistreated servant. Holley's base jetting and settings for each will be very close to optimum. Colt Industries Holley brand might have taken a real quality bashing to its good name with the roll out of the cheap and nasty horizontal shut line Motocraft 4350c syle 1976 to 1988 4360, 4010 and 4011 4-bbl carbs, but all the 2305's used great design and lots of 2300 series commonality, and Holley's engineers also made the Ford Carpenter 370 cid 2-bbl 2300C and Mustang 5.0GT 5.8 CV/MM Police Interceptor /5.8 & 7.8 liter F250/350 4180C series emissions carbs in the same 1982 period where the 2305 appeared. These were all top notch Holley's.

The 500 cfm 2305 is no turkey, it's just a rare, not well understood 2-bbl carb which still drips fuel from its vertical shut line float bowl.

You should in theory be able to put a US $26.50 1:1 linkage from the 390 cfm 6895 cfm carb on it, and run a 2300 series float bowl or a primary front float bowl Edelbrock or Weber or TMP Power Plate, and set it up like the primary barrels of the 650, 700 or 750 4150 series double pumper. The base 2305 casting is still 100% 2300, but it has the main body drilled differently for a special PVCR and idle jet arrangements.

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Although the Weber kit has its detractors when used in the stock front float bowl setting, in your i6 instillation, the intermediate circuit and power valve would never be exposed under acceleration, and the changes in float level still allows the whole existing recommended emulsion tubes to be used, and are are good for a 4-bbl 400 to 500 hp engine, so that's 200 to 250 hp of calibrated power right there. Though these kits are considered flawed, they were used extensively in our Improved Production and oval tract 308 to 351 race engines in Australia , the kit allowing 308's to get to 400 hp, and 351's to get 450 hp. Full jet changes with the engine running, and none of the traditional Holley vertical float bowl split line to slow down jet changes.


Its been acknowledged for years that there are more than one way to tune Holley carbs. Forum exports like Wsa111 use the best air bleed and pvcr kits, with booster and other blueprint changes to his 4412 2300 series 500 2-bbls, but you ca also fall back to the time honored Weber IDA methods of emulsion tube, jet and air corrector changes, along with the stock power valve. Either way, if the stock Holley 2305 500 cfm calibration doesn't make 200 hp, its pretty easy to make one that will.
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XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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