Valve train pissing me off.

So I got my mustang up and running not too long ago. Barely breaking in the freshly rebuilt six. The first 500 miles were great ran like a champ and pulled hard. I never redlined it I always just shifted at 3000 rpm.Then I did the recommended 500 mile break in oil change using 10w30 according to my mechanic. Ran great for about 50 miles and I start getting valve chatter. I'm not too mechanically inclined to pop open the valve cover and do any work to it so I took it back to my mechanic. Oh and btw the carb was leaking gas on top of the headers and it seemed like oil was spilling somewhere around the harmonic balancer. So the point is I took it back and he fixed the valve chatter problem. The carb leaking stopped and so did the oil leak. He said something about the rocker arms werent making contact with the valves. I drove it home fine yesterday. No noise or nothing but I did notice that the oil pressure gauge was at about 1/4 and it use to run at about Twice as that . so I go cruising with my buddies tonight, we drove about a total of 70 miles. Just when I'm getting home the valve chatter starts again!!!! funny thing is the car still pulls the same, but now I'm super pissed. I just paid 175 to get the valves adjusted and the same thing all over again. Almost makes me wanna sell my car, but I just worked so hard for it that I'm not going to let it go. Right now I'm broke as a joke and I need opinions on what I should do. I also smelt burnt oil coming from under the hood. I spent too much money on the motor for it to not to be useful.! Problem is I had no warrantee on the rebuild. I have a freshly built 289 in the backyard with a 2 barrel intake which I could use the carb from my six on it. It's an autolite 2100.!all it needs is a distributer, wires, plugs, headers, valve covers and an air filter. I'm thinking of just throwing that In my mustang if this inline six doesn't work out, but then I wouldn't be part of this inline six family. I've learned a lot here and most of you guys helped with the build. As far as pointing me in the right direction. Starting with the falcon six handbook. Like I said im not too hands on with motors but I can probably do a thing or two with the right guidance. If the six needs a complete overhaul I'm probably just dropping in the 289, but that's just last resort. Sorry for my rant im a bit loopy because I had to take my anxiety medication as soon as I heard that valve chatter. I need some opinions from you guys because I don't really wanna spend more money on this six cylinder. I'm probably going to have to spend more money but I atleast don't wanna give it to my mechanic.
Thanks, Giovanni

Good on you for telling it like it is. If I had a nickel for the amount of times valve noise and carb leaks were a factor in in line six disatisfaction, I'd be a bizzillionaire...


Even so, it bascially comes down to a mechanics requirment to avoid


Proper Prior Planning Prevents Pee Poor Performance

PPPPPPP

,


by Reading. It then becomes a Six P and one R, the R being Results.

These days, working on pre ODB cars measn that if a mechanic don't read a multitude, he can't feed a multitude.


There are Ford Six bible belt chapters for this.

Just becasue its an old Ford I6 doesn't actually make it simple if your mechanic isn't aware of the sometimes complicated Standard Operational Procedures for the small I6:-

Copy them out, or send them an email.

Old FE guys used to do this in the olden days, it was the solution. Read Ak Millers Classic Inlines details on pages and 5.

http://www.classicinlines.com/HA4.asp
http://www.classicinlines.com/HA5.asp

And the Falcon SIx handbooks


and on page 2 of 7, the proper way to do it.

http://vintage.mitchell1.com/PClubData/ ... 816068.pdf

You should be okay, some mechanics need to learn that the small six is basically designed by the FE 332-352-427/428 team, and that Ford uses the FE Big block valve gear design on its small sixes, and the case of the 200, it uses a 25 to 125 thou prelod setting on the adjustable valve gear. The non adjustable valve assumes you have a stock undecked cylinder head, stock block, stock pushrods. Anytime you have your log head planed, a cam fitted, or something non standard, the preload setting needs to be maintaned.


As long as you haven't wiped out a lifter or a cam lobe, there is the standard process of adding some Home Depot washers on the valve gear posts, and getting different length pushrods.


As for the leaking carb, its a standard Ford Six problem.

You fix it by getting a stock gasket, and torqung it up evenly to 16-18 lb-ft in the manner described, and make dang sure it isn't leaking. Othe I6 engines using the same carbs but with alloy spacers knock it down to 12 to 15 foot pounds of torque. It don't matter, it won't leak if its checked with a gas torch. Its probably caused more poor idling and perfronmance on I6's than even dirty fuel. And its the most common post of Ford six, and probably the most common reason I6'ers get Peed off.

http://www.classicinlines.com/SmallSixSpecs.asp


Simple engine building and Service procedure, when you read it chapter and verse.

Thanks for all the links very valuable information. I'll probably be printing out the info and handing it to my mechanic. The carb leaking stopped after I took the car to get the valves adjusted. he probably torqued it down real good this time. I hope it's not that serious but I don't have the money to get it resolved now. Worst case scenario if the lifter or cam lobe is wiped out will I need a complete overhaul? I'm going to school for automotive technology and times like this makes me wish I was taking the engine repair class. My teacher would surely let me take my engine apart there, but I probably have to wait for next semester. And I really wanna drive my car now but I guess it'll have to wait.

And btw my D8 head does have the adjustable rocker arms.

You've got one of the easiest and most easily accessible engines on which to learn the basics for yourself.
Learn how to use a vacuum guage and a timing light and tune it yourself.
It's not that hard to adjust valve lash. I doubt there are very few here that would even allow a mechanic to touch their babies.
I've only had machinists work on mine. Other than that it's my platform for figuring out how to DIY.

Its personal choice, not all of us are mechanical, my uncle always said he was as mechanical as a screw driver, so someone else can do it...so he'd spent his days workin his a$$ off making money, and was happy to have good service people working on his ride.



He had a 1972 Triump Stage 4 speed Over drive just the same blue as this UK car above, despite T top, and the world best ever sounding V8, they were a TOTAL mechanical disaster with a wacky cooling system designed for a front drive V8 Saab 900 that never happened, and Triumph shoved it into service without doing enough extra development. He had his serviced and maintained, then sold it for a motza in 1988. Because he realised his limits, he found a truly great mechanic, and he never had head gasket problems or cooling issues like everyone else, and he used to drive it the length of New Zealand and back, driving the 2500 mile round trip from Auckland to Alexandra twice a year to see Grandad and our family.


In an OBDII era, a truley great mechanic is harder to find, but they are around.


The bleed down tool is why a good mechanic is handy for these.



Buying when you have the cash, or making up something like this is a great idea. http://www.autotools.com.au/catalogue/p ... /1/AT92120

The other option is the method Falcon Sedan Delivery uses.

EOIC - Exhaust opening, Intake closing.

Turn the crank until the exhaust valve starts opening, then set the intake lash. Turn the crank until the intake valve starts to close, then set the exhaust lash. This method ensures that you're on the cam's base circle.


Mark H from the F150 truck forum said this about his 1-bbl
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/68779 ... -idle.html

he had "consistent problems with the 1 bbl. carb bolts loosening up over a period of time. After tightening the 2 bolts holding the carburetor to the manifold, they would slowly loosen up over a period of several months. This caused a rough idle and sluggishness while cold and got a little better when warmed up. Also, I had to rev it up a little to keep it idling until it had warmed up a little. I finally fixed the problem by making sure the studs were tightly screwed into the manifold, and using red loctite on the nuts. This has worked good for several years now. At first I was concerned about using the red loctite, but the nuts come off fine with only a little extra effort.

One last thing: I tried spraying carb cleaner to intially find the problem but the idle didn't change either. It was only by accident that I wiggled the carb and found that it was very loose."

I would be checking oil to see whats in it. Also would be checking valve installed heights with rocker shaft removed .On engines with rocker shafts the installed heights should all be the same. Proper oil for flat tappets is needed or aditives or cam /lifters can go bad. Was it started for the first time and held at 1500 to 2000 RPM for the first 20 min ?

Well you guys are certainly inspiring me to go out and get my tools so I can start doing all the work myself. I did the entire suspension on my car from corner to corner. Only thing I didn't do was install the subframe connectors as I don't weld, but the thing handles like its on rails. Of course the suspension has lots of upgraded parts. Going under the hood frightens me a bit though. There's little room for error as I don't want to screw something up like wipe out a cam lobe or lifter. I talked to my mechanic after he adjusted the valves and he said the cam lobe and lifters are still in good working condition so that's a good thing. As for the cam its a hydraulic cam with a 110 L/C and 264/274 cam profile. I honestly don't wanna go back to him just to pay gobs of money and nothing getting fixed. He's a great mechanic but I think working on my little custom six was a bit different to him as he's use to building big block eights. He has a 554 stroker in a custom built hotrod with a 5 speed jerico in it. Pretty sure that thing makes 2000 plus HP. I want to tackle this problem myself now. It doesnt seem like rocket science and now that I've been doing more reading and asking questions from older guys I feel a bit more comfortable popping open the valve cover. My next step is buying that bleed down tool xstasy has recommended. I'm also considering buying a push starter that hooks up to the starter solenoid because my mechanic told me that's how he set the valve lash in the first place. I'm going to be doing lots of reading this weekend. Turbo2256b I didn't ask if he did that when he first started it up, but the cam is a hydraulic one. Xctasy I was told that maybe the reason my valve train is ticking is because the rocker arms are backing off since the camshaft is not stock and maybe I need some loctites in my valve train?

Just some pictures of her. She doesn't have the original block currently. I was told the block came out of a 66 sprint six mustang so I decided to put the sticker on The original block is currently sitting in my shed.

Looks sharp! Any particular reason for the air intake to point down towards the exhaust? Should get better response sucking in the cooler air from away from the exhaust manifold.

I am stuck with fighting clearance issues because of the Monte Carlo bar that I have installed to keep the shock towers straight. There used to be a curved bar made for the I6 but they're harder to find nowadays. Probably still available, but I've been saving my money for other things...

Might want to consider installing a non-adjustable set of rockers.
You may already have the correct lifters anyways.

Word up, JF.


All noise goes away if you put stock, well set, not messed with later model unadjustable rocker shaft on, and its pushrods.

It works if the head hasn't been planed much more than about 60 thou (although you can plane the early ones MUCH more than the later 1970 onwards ones which are rather thin in the deck.

I used a pristine, unmolested 1963 head casting (same as 170 Falcon) on my 200 1981 block, and the rattling noise was gone.

But I was too busy to reset it, and the adjustable rocker gear was hitting the PCV baffels inside the top of my Fox valve rocker cover after a 1400 mile so journ at up tp 95 mph inland to the skifields.


And no, I didn't break my camshaft lobes, lifters, or find lots of fragments from Metallicas last album in my sump.


I said all that other jazz as I knew you'd wanna know why.

Reason I chose to put the late model head is for better air flow and hardened seats for unleaded gas. Atleast that's what I read in the fordsix manual or the classic inlines tech section I don't remember.. It also has the intake manifold machined for the true dual carb adaptor so I'd rather keep this late model head on it. So what your saying is I should get the 1978 stock non-adjustable rocker arms and pushrods and instal them? I have a feeling maybe the head wasn't planed and that's why I'm having this problem. So what i don't understand is what's the use of the adjustable rocker arms? will it decrease performance if I swap out the rocker arms? Because I love how my motor pulls. It's definitely an improvement from stock. I might be pissing some of you guys off with my questions but like someone once said on here "there's no such thing as stupid questions only stupid mistakes" I lost my Fordsix manual a few months ago. I think I left it at school and someone took it. I'll be ordering one asap.

Cr_bobcat I had clearance issues with my cold air intake and I had to get the underside of my hood cut up a little bit. Nothing too serious though, and the reason I had it set that way is because my battery is in my trunk now so I figured that with that space open up now I could get air from that section. If I had gone with the longer CAI I'd probably put it on the opposite side but it's short enough already and it barely gets across the valve cover sitting in the opposite direction from where it's now. I like your Monte Carlo bar. I wish I could've gotten one but my carb sitting in the position it's in and the CAI get in the way. So that's not even an option. I just have the export brace.

If its adjusted properly, and the adjuster nuts aren't hammering the inside of the rocker cover like mine were, a latter model head is just fine.

They just gotta be adjusted right.


You can go back to any unadjustable rocker if you really have to. Just don't settle for it if a smart mechanic hasn't done his job, and its one of the first recoomendations...why go backwards. They don't back out, modern hydraulic cams, oils and lifters are so much better if the cam is run-in right.

The advice of the Falcon 6 Performance handbook is pretty hard to beat. There was a time when all American mechanics knew how to set up Ford 6 and V8 hydraulic lifters with adjustable valve gear, but obviously, some need a learning lesson. I've done some pretty advanced work on all my I6's, but I haven't ever done hydraulic and adjustable rocker shaft set up, but that's because I know how easy it was to set the unadjustable rockers. I've done Cologne V6 Cortina engine (very like the 200 I6, incidently), Ford Kent and Pinto fours (Pinto engines all types), X-flows Alloy and Iron heads, the GM little I6's (138 and 201 Vauxhall, 202 Holdens), 351C's, Chevy V8's, 390 FE's, Mini A series 848, 998, 1098, 1275 engines but only Fords US 1964 to 1970 ish and all Aussie 1964 to 1975 170-250 engines have been adjustable, and hydraulic, and I haven't had the pleasure.....


Hydraulic lifters rock!

If there was a new head gasket installed and the head was not shaved then that might explain the rattling.
The original gaskets were about half as thick as the new ones.
Might require .020 longer pushrods.

There is a the possibility that your adjusters are wore out and backing off as the engine runs.
If this is true you can
Replace adjusters with new ones
Replace rockers with new ones
Add jam nuts

when i installed a new head gasket i learnt my head was a shaved 221 head (250 combustion chambers) on my ’68 200, head had good seats, stock everything, i found a NOS steel shim gasket, what was on there was a thick permatorque one, one cylinder wasn’t sealing right, found that to be number 5 both inlet and exhaust valves, i didn’t even touch the valve train, didn’t touch the pushrods other than marking where they came out of and just torqued it all back up. Had new valve stem seals and reseated the valves, a little inlet porting, mainly the short turn stuff done, spent 110 on the head all up. Maybe should have measured the pushrods. But i have no valve train clatter, if anything it is quite. One thing i did do was retorque the head bolts after about 500 k’s, they were way off, must have had false readings. Or the head moved around after racing it again.

If you have an after market rocker assembly and are using stock type ball and cup pushrods that could be the problem with constant valve chatter. I have the 1.6 ratio rocker assembly from classic inlines but I started out using oem ball and up pushrods. The problem was the cup on the top of the pushrod was a little too small for the adjuster to properly seat and after a few miles the pushrod would wear a groove in the adjuster and the valves would make noise. I ended up having to replace all the adjusters and get after market pushrods that have a slightly larger cup that allows them to seat properly in the adjuster. I got these also from classic inlines...problem solved.

Gene, the problem was noted by Rick Smol and others back in the 2V 250 head days. This from Sat Nov 22, 2003

https://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9986

ricksmol":3e68ezg1 said:

I installed a while back an aluminium rolling rocker set up. Drove the car for a few days and the pushrods plain wore out on top. Came to find out that one of the rocker stands had the wrong pressure relief tab.

Went back to the original adjustable rocker set up (came with the 250-2V head). Had the stand replaced with one with no pressure relief and pushrods with a higher Rockwell rating. Harder metal.

Installed the new set up once again. Drove for a couple of weeks and noise started again. Opened it up and the adjusting screws on the rocker arms were worn out completely. Found metal filings all over the place.

Changed once again to the original, changed oil, changed filter and no trouble since. I have gotten new adjusting screws and pushrods but I am hesitant to put the aluminium rockers back in. The original works great.

I adjusted the rockers while the engine was idling. Saw oil coming up and going down the pushrods in a curlycue fashion. Everyhting looked good yet it wore the metals in no time at all. I still don't know why.
Rick

Click to expand...

https://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17091


The adjustment ball is indeed to small for some pushrods. Its a variance, quality assurance issue that is hard to pick up.

For instance, the early ex Australia Yella Terra ones in the roller rocker system are designed back home for Aussie 250'S for a bigger (9.38" L6 186S Holden ) pushrod, and using the stock US adjustable rocker gear and push rod was the solution.

Ford really did do there homework with this engine, the aftermarket, well, they've come a long way, but the same issue still happens.

One thing I ran into on a couple of adjustable sets was that the rockers and ball adjusters were simply worn out. Over the years many of these engines got neglected - no oil changes for years. The adjustment balls wore out, the valve contact pad wore out, the fulcrum bush wore out -it was simply impossible to set and keep those adjusted.

Examine the ball end. It should be perfectly round and smooth. If the ball is worn into an oval shape, has lots of scarring, or has flattened out, it is no good. Likely the rest of the rocker needs rework as well.