http://classicinlines.com/gallery/fordi ... 4_jpg.html
looks cool, i have thought about using nitrous, what is a safe amount to use?
looks cool, i have thought about using nitrous, what is a safe amount to use?
is that nitrous on this 6
- Thread starter 64 200 ranchero
- Start date
64 200 ranchero":afsjv2o8 said:
It all depends on what pistons (this is the weak link as has been well documented on the site) that your running and overall condition of the engine. On an all stock short block my guess is only about a 75 to 100 HP kit.
I was thinking about doing a 30-40 shot if anything, i wouldn't want to hurt the engine, i will be running cast flat top pistons.
That should be ok. 
Take your existing power, add 47%, if you have the right excess fuel factor, that's the standard gain.
The critcial loads drop with nitrous when used with fuel enrichment and proper nozle postioning.
The problem is when the combustion atmosphere, which is nitrous, gets insufficent fuel and goes into a lean condition. That's what destroys pistons. The ecess fuel factor solves lean out. Nitrous doesn't destroy pistons, the lack of gasoline does, the engine goes lean, and the piston heat goes up. A stock small six Ford cast piston is okay, but hyperetectics without a split skirt oil relief is even better.
The engine can keep taking 47% more power than the stock engine,; as you raise the base unchemically supercharged power, you can keep adding more nitrous untill the pistons suffer to many feet per minute. We've got guys down here who are boosting 3.3 liter engines to 500 hp with a turbo and nitrous, and stock solid skirt pistons with drilled oil holes. That's the race spec cast alloy pistons that Ford and Holden aftermarket suppliers started selling when pistons started loosing there tops under too much rpm or power. A forged piston is best, although you can break them too. A good hypereutectic or good sloid skirt cast piston will handle a lot of abuse.
The critcial loads drop with nitrous when used with fuel enrichment and proper nozle postioning.
The problem is when the combustion atmosphere, which is nitrous, gets insufficent fuel and goes into a lean condition. That's what destroys pistons. The ecess fuel factor solves lean out. Nitrous doesn't destroy pistons, the lack of gasoline does, the engine goes lean, and the piston heat goes up. A stock small six Ford cast piston is okay, but hyperetectics without a split skirt oil relief is even better.
The engine can keep taking 47% more power than the stock engine,; as you raise the base unchemically supercharged power, you can keep adding more nitrous untill the pistons suffer to many feet per minute. We've got guys down here who are boosting 3.3 liter engines to 500 hp with a turbo and nitrous, and stock solid skirt pistons with drilled oil holes. That's the race spec cast alloy pistons that Ford and Holden aftermarket suppliers started selling when pistons started loosing there tops under too much rpm or power. A forged piston is best, although you can break them too. A good hypereutectic or good sloid skirt cast piston will handle a lot of abuse.
xrwagon
Well-known member
A 200 in Hot Rod magazine in a Maverick was pilled till it was killed. It ended up taking a 175 shot before blowing the rings. But they did that in progressive steps, keeping an eye on the tune. You should be able to find the article fairly easily. I think up to 75 shot would be fine, if you have a good tune in it and the engine is fine to start off with.
I use the rwhp times a 1.4 multiplyer. (40%) to get the maximum possiable flywheel hp. I've seen 1.63, or 63% loss from flywheel net hp to the rear wheels on chassis dynos, it drops to 26% with a T5.
That 200 survived a 135 hp shot, an 83% power boost at the flywheel. 175 hp shot broke it. It would have been a 143% power boost if it hadn't died. Ring land and oil down.
It started with what was propably 81 rwhp, and then an intermedate bbost to 100 flywheel hp.. It then got some Classic Inlines firepower and TBi, and rose to about 122. It went from 19.8 sec 1/4 mile in a 2600 pound (sans rider) Mav to 15.07 with that 135 shot, or 223 flywheel hp
It would have perhaps been safe to more than that if it didn't have a scored cylinder to start with.
I've seen a Super Pusuit 200 in an XM Futura with 350 holley 2-bbl and 100 shot go from 19.5 to 13.6 seconds, equal to surviing a 175 hp shot.
That 200 survived a 135 hp shot, an 83% power boost at the flywheel. 175 hp shot broke it. It would have been a 143% power boost if it hadn't died. Ring land and oil down.
It started with what was propably 81 rwhp, and then an intermedate bbost to 100 flywheel hp.. It then got some Classic Inlines firepower and TBi, and rose to about 122. It went from 19.8 sec 1/4 mile in a 2600 pound (sans rider) Mav to 15.07 with that 135 shot, or 223 flywheel hp
It would have perhaps been safe to more than that if it didn't have a scored cylinder to start with.
I've seen a Super Pusuit 200 in an XM Futura with 350 holley 2-bbl and 100 shot go from 19.5 to 13.6 seconds, equal to surviing a 175 hp shot.
xctasy":3nmxhmcb said:
A 50hp system won't be as complex as that photo. A single nitrous and fuel injector will easily handle that. A small system could even add fuel and nitrous into the carb opening.
The biggest risk with nitrous is not having enough fuel to go with the nitrous shot. With nitrous alone it's like going uber-lean leading to burnt everything.
The biggest risk with nitrous is not having enough fuel to go with the nitrous shot. With nitrous alone it's like going uber-lean leading to burnt everything.
I have already spoken with a tech at Nitrous Express. ....will be going with a 75 hp shot on the C.I. headed 200 thats on the drawing board. Still alot of life left in the tri power motor though.
schaferstephen
Well-known member
Just to chime in here...
Hypothetically... If someone had a 250 w/ forged rods & pistons, and a CI head... But was bored 40 over. What kind of capabilities are we talking about?
Hypothetically... If someone had a 250 w/ forged rods & pistons, and a CI head... But was bored 40 over. What kind of capabilities are we talking about?
Your only limitation will be splitting bores in the stock 250 block. Piston clearance has to be right, and past 40 thou, the thinwall 250 block is marginal. Ford started taking a lot of metal out of the heads and blocks in 1969, with the Cleveland plant making
At 40 thou, with properly clearanced forged pistons, you should be able to go 47% over the stock power level before chemical supercharging. That 47% is based on getting execess fuel to the combustion chamber, without risk. If it was EFI, you could doa lot more, but with carb systems and six n20 nossels and six fuel nossels, you can always get 47%. That's based on the stochometric ratio with a 36% increase in air via the oxgenating effect of nitrous.
The best of the little 200's with a Classic Inline shead are sitting at the 235 to 265 flywheel hp mark. If the 250 is given the right cam to suit its 25% capacity increase, it won't just be a 9% hp increase like it always is with the factory 250 over the 200. You read it right, without an optimized cam and carburattion changee, you only see a 9% power gain over the 200. That's a very different picture to the optimistic 155 and 145 gross hp ratings of the 250 from 1969 tom 1971.a 29% boost over the 120 and 115 hp gross of the 200. Truth is, the rating was a lie, and the SAE net and DIN Net flywheel figures were about 9% different.
If your 250 is optimized to make 295 flywheel hp with a nice big 4-bbl 250, like any decent large lift, long duration Classic Inlines headed engine should, you could add 135 shot and get 430 flywheel hp without risk. The critical loads (writ pin, piston temparature, main bearings) would be less on a nitrous 430 hp than on a turbo 430, or naturally aspirated 430 hp. That's what bottle queens are...something that in its natural state, is significant, but one the bottle, its epic.
At 40 thou, with properly clearanced forged pistons, you should be able to go 47% over the stock power level before chemical supercharging. That 47% is based on getting execess fuel to the combustion chamber, without risk. If it was EFI, you could doa lot more, but with carb systems and six n20 nossels and six fuel nossels, you can always get 47%. That's based on the stochometric ratio with a 36% increase in air via the oxgenating effect of nitrous.
The best of the little 200's with a Classic Inline shead are sitting at the 235 to 265 flywheel hp mark. If the 250 is given the right cam to suit its 25% capacity increase, it won't just be a 9% hp increase like it always is with the factory 250 over the 200. You read it right, without an optimized cam and carburattion changee, you only see a 9% power gain over the 200. That's a very different picture to the optimistic 155 and 145 gross hp ratings of the 250 from 1969 tom 1971.a 29% boost over the 120 and 115 hp gross of the 200. Truth is, the rating was a lie, and the SAE net and DIN Net flywheel figures were about 9% different.
If your 250 is optimized to make 295 flywheel hp with a nice big 4-bbl 250, like any decent large lift, long duration Classic Inlines headed engine should, you could add 135 shot and get 430 flywheel hp without risk. The critical loads (writ pin, piston temparature, main bearings) would be less on a nitrous 430 hp than on a turbo 430, or naturally aspirated 430 hp. That's what bottle queens are...something that in its natural state, is significant, but one the bottle, its epic.
Im going to dig deeper into this for sure, i think it will work well with my tripower head, i will stay in the 50 shot area just to keep it simple
schaferstephen
Well-known member
Interesting...
I'm starting out with a Holley 2V, but my goal is to eventually learn MegaSquirt or TBI and mock me up an EFI system...Maybe I will look into a lil shot of glory when I get into that mess.
For now, I just wanna get it rebuilt and on the road. As always...Thanks for the info, Xtasy!
I'm starting out with a Holley 2V, but my goal is to eventually learn MegaSquirt or TBI and mock me up an EFI system...Maybe I will look into a lil shot of glory when I get into that mess.
For now, I just wanna get it rebuilt and on the road. As always...Thanks for the info, Xtasy!
There have been guys over on Inliners that have used nitrous on their engines that added an extra 400 HP to the engine. You have to purpose build your engine to handle even moderate doses of nitrous, and certain criteria has to be met to ensure longevity. Even though its a power adder like a turbo, it still requires different components than a turbo engine does, like ring type for instance. So don't try to copy a turbo guys build for your nitrous build.