Yella Terra Valvtrain Questions

C

cameljockey

Well-known member
Hello all,

It's been eons since I posted. So many ups and downs prevented me from making any meaningful progress the last 5 years but that is changing.

to recap:

250 CID 6 cyl build

Classic Inlines Aluminum head w/ street / strip porting
4 V intake with QFT 580CFM carb
Cunningham Rods bronze bushed for Chevy .927" pins
CompCams dual wound springs
CompCams Oil Through Lifters
Yella Terra Roller Rockers************
Clay Smith Pushrods
Ross Racing pistons with TBC and Molly coating

I built this thing like an anvil in the hopes of going fuel injected and Turbo Charged in the future

The issue currently preventing me from completeing break in:

Engine starts up fine and runs like a champ until operating temps are reached at which point it begins to run very very badly and I shut it off.
I took it to the shop that built my short block and they removed the valve cover to discover that the pushrods have popped out from under the adjusters of the rocker arms! :shock:
So they put the pushrods back, readjust, and I take the car home and proceed to try and break in the engine again and about 5 min into the Cam break in I hear the same noise! :banghead: so I tow it back and they call me and tell me the same thing happened this time except on another cylinder. They noted to me that they had stopped using Yella Terra Producs because their rocker arms were problematic on some of their other engine builds so they are advising me to find another alternative. (if only they knew what they were asking lol!)
I know that there aren't many options for our engines and I'm wiling to bet that I merely botched the install :oops: on account of Yella Terra didn't provide Manufacturer installation instrucitons with the kit. Yella Terra has been nonresponsive to my requests for printed instructions.

Has anyone had simillar issues? does any one have the original instructions for the Yella Terra Roller Rocker kit? Is any one on here runing the kit on the Aluminum head and can advise me about the installation?

Sorry for not posting in so long Thanks for any help.

Keep Sixin
 
Gday cameljockey,

Are the Clay Smith pushrods that your using compatible with the rocker arms? Are they an oil through type to suit SBF, 5/16" ball (I think) ?

I'm just wondering if your pushrods aren't seating properly in the rocker arm cup? If your using a solid cam, how much is the valve lash?
 
Dan, I see you are using the a Comp Cams. What is the lift with the 1.65 rockers?
Sounds like the pushrods are either too long or too short.
The correct length is with the adjuster screw in the middle of its length & the rocker arm roller is in the center of the valve stem at 1/2 lift. If you have hydraulic lifters the plunger should be close to the top such as when running.
If the pushrods are too long you can shim the rocker arm a little to compensate for the pushrod.
Is there any contact between the body of the rocker arm & the pushrod at full lift?
I hoped you also plugged the oil passage in the block to head at the lr area of the block. Failure to block this orifice make it possible to cause an oil leak from the head gasket at the left rear of the engine.
For proper distributor gear oiling the 2nd & 3rd lifters should have an oiling groove cut to supply that area with extra oiling.
I also mod any distributor to supply extra oiling via the distributor to the gear.
Your machine shop should have checked for proper pushrod length using a solid lifter & an adjustable pushrod to get the correct length pushrod length in the first place.
Apparently the shop you used is not qualified in that area.
The stock length valves in that engine are almost limited to .525" lift without retainer to valve guide clearance.
Keep us informed.
 
wow So so much that I over looked when installing these :banghead:

To answer Bill:

In all fairness to this Shop I only had them build the short block sans the entire top end and oil through lifters I went ahead and built / installed the entire top end myself ... big mistake :nod:

some specs from my Cam Card:
Comp Cams: Dur @ 0.050
-Int:224° Exh:218° LSA: 115°
-Gross valve Lift:
-Int:0.494 Exh:0.447

"The correct length is with the adjuster screw in the middle of its length & the rocker arm roller is in the center of the valve stem at 1/2 lift. If you have hydraulic lifters the plunger should be close to the top such as when running."
I didn't notice any coil bind on the valve springs during my initial adjustment but now that I know my length check was completely botched who knows! :roll:

:nono: Mistake number 1:
I did the length check with a hydraulic lifter uncollapsed and the adjusters backed all the way out

"For proper distributor gear oiling the 2nd & 3rd lifters should have an oiling groove cut to supply that area with extra oiling.
I also mod any distributor to supply extra oiling via the distributor to the gear."

:nono: Mistake Number 2:

I only found out about these oiling mods you mentioned yesterday long long after I had assembled the engine and had to let it sit due to some hard economic times :cry:

"Is there any contact between the body of the rocker arm & the pushrod at full lift?"
during my initial install I didn't notice any contact (That's a good thing right?)
"I hoped you also plugged the oil passage in the block to head at the lr area of the block."
Before installing the top end I tapped annd cleaned the hole with the short block upside down on the engine stand while runing a vacuum and installed a removable set screw with some blue locktite for insurance.

To answer XMFalcon221

"Are the Clay Smith pushrods that your using compatible with the rocker arms? Are they an oil through type to suit SBF, 5/16" ball (I think) ?"

So far as I recall they are 5/16" chrome-moly oil-through type pushrods recomended on Classic Inlines when I purchased the kit.

I'm just wondering if your pushrods aren't seating properly in the rocker arm cup? If your using a solid cam, how much is the valve lash?

I need to doulbe check the lash measurement I checked when I did the top end assembly quite some time ago and will have to redo this once I get my car back in two weeks.

In the mean time I want to complete break in on the this engine so I'm planing to run the stock Ford valve train. can I get away with just runing stock length 250 ci pushrods, non oiling Hyd lifters, and the stock 1.5 ratio adjustable rocker arm set up or will this cause a whole bunch of other geometry problems?

Keep Sixin,

Dan
 
Dan, you have to breakin the camshaft with the lifters you are going to use.
If you leave the oil through lifters in the engine you cannot use the stock pushrods cause the V8 lifters are higher & would require a shorter pushrod. I believe they are .150" higher.
You can get special pushrods which are shorter & even though you have oil through lifters non oiling pushrods will not cause a problem.
If you have any more questions just give a shout. Good luck.
 
There is nothing wrong with the roller rockers, Yella Terra is a good product, i have been in contact with them in the past and the correspondence was good, and the bloke detailed how i should use the roller rockers if purchased, hope it goes well for you
 
Hi xrwagon, when they detailed the installation for you did they give you written instructions? If so, are you able to post them?

I'm about to build my motor with the yella terra rockers and the instructions provided are for a different product. Have had no luck getting specific instructions from Yella Terra.

Any details or hints you could pass on would be appreciated.

Cheers
 
Nothing detailed, just mentioned to use oil through pushrods and to plug one oil gallery. I don’t know of anything else, at the time i was buying them i was onto a 2V head, Triples and these new rollers for 1000 bucks, turns out seller was using google images of what he didn’t own, lucky to get my cash back. Found the head on a page in the USA, you should join my Facebook page, Hot Inline Sixes and Vintage, i have several members on there with some tough 2V motors, a couple members from here also on the page.
 
XMFalcon221":29qrc7eo said:
Hi xrwagon, when they detailed the installation for you did they give you written instructions? If so, are you able to post them?

I'm about to build my motor with the yella terra rockers and the instructions provided are for a different product. Have had no luck getting specific instructions from Yella Terra.

Any details or hints you could pass on would be appreciated.

Cheers
Click to expand...

"XMFFalcon221" There is some basic info and install pictures near the bottom in this link http://www.classicinlines.com/RockerOptions.asp

And also a little more info in this post, it looks like between the two it covers most of the how to install, except for maybe how you plug the blocks rear oil feed hole which is an easy (drill and tap job), the torque specs used, the part number of lifters to use (I think it's the SBF V8 Lifters ?), setting up the correct length and type of oil through push rods (see Wsa111's above post for info on setting the correct length). You might be able to contact (Wsa111) for the rest of info to setup the Yella Terra rockers, I have not been able to locate his tech article. Contact info is also in the link below. Good luck :nod:

http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=101&t=72383
 
The Yella Terra system uses recomended pushrods which are Holden 186S for the 250 cubic inch Aussie tall deck 200/250's. The US and pre 1971 Aussie stuff is a whole diiferent game plan, and the US guys at Classic In lines are your best advise. The midlands 188 and 221 has its cam in a different (250) position to the 144/170/200 engines, so you can't just add 617 to 622 thou to the US 144/170/200 pushrod recomendation, although that will get you close, you still have to ensure the pushrod length selected results in the proper rubbing spot on the valve with the rocker gear and lifters adjusted properly.


The specific details are: The 221 and US 144/170/200 (which is similar to the 1964-1968 Ford 144/170/200 engine) are shallow deck engines with a respective 8.425 or 7.803-7.808" deck engine. The pushrods depend on if you are using the edge ofrrice SBF lifters and the type of rocker gear, the cam position in the block, and the setting up of the lifter clearances to spec.
 
This maybe as simple as the pushrods not getting seated in the lifter cup right,had that happen before.Get an ajustable beam minne flash light and check. It did just like you said.
 
So I got a PDF of the instructions from Yella Terra and they're generic instructions without a parts count or specific detailed order of operations to our application. If any one wants a copy PM me and I can email it or create a file sharing link or something
 
okay long time no post an Update

I read all the instructions from Yella Terra. I shimmed the roller rockers per the instructions. I did a cold adjustment. It fired right up got warm and...


IT STAYED TOGETHER WOOHOO :beer: :chill: :banghead: :thanks: :thanks: :thanks: :thanks: for everyone's input on this

I still hear a lifter tapping so I think I will attempt another adjustment.

I was thinking also of removing the valvetrain and installing TIMESERTS or KEENSERTS in the bosses of the head any thoughts on this?
 
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