swapping '63 170 for a 78' 200

SoCar72

SoCar72

Well-known member
Been off-forum for too long. A whole lot of life events : new house (garage!!!, no more parking lot fixes), job promotion, and a newborn. Finally, a new engine for my '63 Falcon is on the to-do list this summer.

I've been wanting for some time to step up to a 7-main 200 (from my 4-main 170). So I've been keeping a look out for low mile used engines and rebuilt ones. I just came across a newly rebuilt (with warrantee) '78 200, D8 casting, high mount starter (I know sometime in the late '70's they went low-mount like the SBF's) and the best I can tell a bolt in for my 170.

Is there any reason I shouldn't go with this engine? Or anything I should transfer from mine to the new one?

Differences I know of :
Rocker arms went from adjustable to non-adjustable
Lifters went from mechanical to hydraulic
Clutch went from 8.5" to 9" - bells changed but the blocks retained dual bolt patterns
Oil shaft and distributor changed from 1/4" to 5/16" (planning on the PD HEI Distributor anyway)

Anything I'm missing? Is there another target casting or year that I perhaps should be looking for instead?

Further down the road, I am planning to swap the head for a CI aluminum, hopefully next summer. So, head issues I'm less concerned with unless there's a real compatibility issue I'm unaware of.

Thanks in advance...
 
The 200 D7 block will be an easy swap into your 63! Is this is a complete engine or long block? If it is and has a matching D7 head then you have it made they have the large log and bigger valves. Then all you need off your 170 is the bell housing, flywheel and clutch. If it has the DS II distributor and later carb too you will be golden! Good luck :nod:
 
Howdy SOCar72:

And welcome back. Grab the adjustable rockers and pushrod off the 170. They'll bolt right on, after a thorough clean up and allow you to get the most out of the stock cam.

I hope you got air cleaner to head pipe. Stock OEM DSII and carter YF will be right on. YOu will have to adapt the linkage for the later cable pull linkage, but it's worth it.

Keep us posted on your progress.

Adios, David
 
This is a long block. No peripherals. I have a few carb options in my inventory : original 1bbl, 1bbl off a 300, a couple of 2bbl Autolites, and a couple of small 4bbl (390 and 450 Holleys). I figured I may experiment a little.

Good call on the rockers and shaft.

Thank you.
 
water pump snouts were longer as these engines were in longer engine bays
just use shorter pumps from earlier years if there is any clearance issues
mustangs had longer engine bays than falcons and early comets also
there are aftermarket pumps with more impellers
 
You might want to investigate which timing set the rebuilder used as there is the preferred one- pre 69? somebody on here will know
and I think some guys advance the cam a bit when in this phase
If the rebuilder went with the year correct set, the emissions one, it could keep you from getting all you could.
 
Howdy All:

All 200 timing sets are the same in terms of timing. Cam timing changed some in 1975 but cam gear timing did not change.

Adios, David
 
This is a factory-spec rebuild. I suspect all timing and valvetrain components are factory stock/spec. I'll probably leave everything per the build, at least through the break-in, before I start advancing cam timing and such. Between the Handbook and the CI tech pages, seems like I read something about stock cam advancing techniques. I do remember (now) reading about using the adjustable rockers with hydraulic lifters.

I keep thinking about ultimate upgrades and performance tweaks to get everything possible out of the 200. But then I remember, even in bone-stock trim, it's 30 more cubes and freshly built. It's going to be a tremendous performance enhancement over my original build '63 170 with leaking valve seals, inconsistent compression, barely advancing Load-a-matic ignition (the Pertronix helped), nearly 200k miles, and the list goes on. This engine may be worth almost twice the power I have now. I just might really feel the Falcon accelerate...

I may not be able to get started until late June or July. I'll document and post. Thanks to all!
 
Howdy All:

FYI the cam timing issues with the cam timing gears only apply to the 250 engines. All stock, OEM 200 engines use the same timing gear. However, an aftermarket gear set is available for 200 engines.

Hey SoCar- your before and after comparison is right on. You'll love the new engine. Here are a couple of suggestions as you search parts to complete the long block.
* If at all possible go with the later DuraSpark II ignition/DUI and optimize the centrifugal advance, coordinated with initial and vacuum advances.
*Also make sure that you chose a carb that will compliment the vacuum needs of the distributor vacuum advance. Preferable ported vacuum from a ported vacuum source on the carb. YOur original 170 carb has a load sensitive vacuum signal, (Spark Control Valve) that will not be compatible with the DSII. Your '63 Load O Matic distributor will not work in your new engine because of differences in mounting and drive. So using your 170 carb distributor is not a good match.
*The one barrel from a 300 is a good match but will need a slight amount of adapting because of a slightly larger throttle bore. It will also need linkage adaptation.

Keep us posted on your progress.

adios, David
 
First off, congrats on the newborn and the garage. Kid will definitely suck up your time. I used to think it would get less as they got older, but now with travel sports, my weekends are completely shot.

The only thing I can add is an echo of go with the DSII if you don't already have it. I threw one in my '65 last year and what a difference.
 
I'll be following this one closely as I am in the same boat re a '63 170. Though I haven't found my block yet, this thread has already given good insight.
 
I'm definitely ditching the load-a-matic gear. I've been favoring the DUI ignition, seems like the option with the greatest potential as long stock appearance is not a concern. I have no reservation against fabrication of adapters to suit a carburetor. We'll see how it goes.

I am currently running an 8.5" clutch and flywheel. So far, I have only found OEM stock replacement kits (plate and disc) through Rock Auto and Summit and plate only through Mac's/Dearborn. Since I'm running a T5, the stock disc is incompatible with the 1.0625 shaft (as opposed to the original 15/16") I only need the pressure plate. Does anyone know of a good cross-compatible plate that offers a little more bite than the OEM original? The disc is an early 3rd gen. Mustang 2.3L disc.

My current plate is actually an OEM original that was pulled from a very low mile installation. I'm wondering if the decades led to a weakened spring rate and a fresh build will be stronger, or will an new OEM replacement mirror my current spring rate. My really weak 170 can spin the clutch if I dump it at a stand still, it accelerates like an AT in 1st : revs come up first then the speed catches up. There is still a lot of pedal stroke left after full engagement so the pedal's not loading the plate. Anyway, I'm looking for a little more clutch.

Thanks!
 
Yep I got that wrong I was getting it confused with what I have read about degreeing the cam and advancing it a bit. And of course I probably think mostly about 250 stuff. The 200 guys get that cool double timing chain.
 
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