What carb is this? And a couple questions around missing/vac

lowrustbkt

New member
Hey guys,

This is my first time posting here but I've been lurking for awhile. I've been searching around trying to figure out what carb I have in my 63 Comet 170. I thought it was just a stock holley carb but there is a wire coming off the automatic choke area that connects to the coil. Made me think it was an electric choke. So I'm at a loss. If I can figure out what it is, I will be able to work on my idle and be able to order a rebuild kit for it.

Please ignore the dirty engine bay. The valve cover gasket has been leaking for probably the last year + so I've been delaying taking on the job to fix it, replace everything worn out and clean it. But I will this weekend hopefully.


The wire I mentioned connects on the left side of picture and goes into that sheath down to the coil.



The reason I'm asking is because most mornings I have a rough cold start, takes 2 or 3 times to start it. Feels like it's lacking fuel. Once it is running, it misses and idles a little rough. It will stay like that until it's been warmed up. Then when I'm cruising at highway speeds it feels like there is a slight miss/hesitation when I'm coasting at certain speed. Say 60mph. If I'm accelerating I don't notice it, but that doesn't mean it's not happening still.

I don't know when the last time it had a tune up, so that is in the works as well, but a point in the right direction would be appreciated.

I also noticed a couple spots that most likely are leaking air. Potential vacuum leaks. Since I don't have a reference just yet as to this carb setup, can you guys let me know if these hoses are something that I should be concerned with asap. Are they possibly causing my issues?

Old hose, loosely fitted.


S shaped hose towards the middle of the photo, the top connection looks very loose. It goes to a metal line and down under the car, I think towards the trans but not sure.


Thanks!
 
That is a Holley 1946.

It's missing some unnecessary stuff if you don't mind babying it.

Is there a port on the side of the choke?
Normally there is a pipe going down to the center of the exhaust manifold that sends up heated air to assist with the opening of the choke.
There is also a pipe that goes to the underside of the exhaust manifold that sends hot air up to the topmost port on the carb.

I removed the choke on mine and just use my foot to get 'er going.
 
Howdy Lowrustbkt:

And welcome to the Forum! I'guessing from your photos, but if this is a 170 it has a 1980 casting head. The Holley #1946 carb is stock OEM for a 1980 200 engine. So, What's the rest of the story with this engine? How long have you had it? Did someone swap engines? Head? More details please.

Also, I'd suggest that before you attack the carb you go a good ignition tune up and set the initial advance to specs plus 5 additional degrees of advance. Then assess the carb.

Again welcome and keep it coming.

Adios, David
 
From your pictures those vacuum lines are sure in bad need of replacement. Good luck :nod:
 
JackFish":3hymyzh1 said:
That is a Holley 1946.

It's missing some unnecessary stuff if you don't mind babying it.

Is there a port on the side of the choke?
Normally there is a pipe going down to the center of the exhaust manifold that sends up heated air to assist with the opening of the choke.
There is also a pipe that goes to the underside of the exhaust manifold that sends hot air up to the topmost port on the carb.

I removed the choke on mine and just use my foot to get 'er going.

Thanks for the info! No port on the side of the choke that I noticed. And I'll look for the one from the exhaust manifold tomorrow.




CZLN6":3hymyzh1 said:
Howdy Lowrustbkt:

And welcome to the Forum! I'guessing from your photos, but if this is a 170 it has a 1980 casting head. The Holley #1946 carb is stock OEM for a 1980 200 engine. So, What's the rest of the story with this engine? How long have you had it? Did someone swap engines? Head? More details please.

Also, I'd suggest that before you attack the carb you go a good ignition tune up and set the initial advance to specs plus 5 additional degrees of advance. Then assess the carb.

Again welcome and keep it coming.

Adios, David

Thanks David, I'm happy to be here. And that's very interesting. I was told by the previous owner that it was a 170 but I never verified. And since I purchased the Comet, he's proven less then knowledgeable from what I've dealt with since. I guess I'll have to check the block for markings to see if it might be a 200 instead.
Unfortunately, I don't know any of the history of the car. I purchased it about a month ago and I've been slowly working on it while it's been my DD.

I was planning on working on the ignition system today but I got distracted. I lowered the front a couple weeks ago and I just installed the rear blocks today. But my pinion/driveshaft angle is almost even which I found out very quickly on the first test drive when it felt like my driveshaft was about to shake right off. So I'm addressing that in the morning and then I'll work on the tune up.


bubba22349":3hymyzh1 said:
From your pictures those vacuum lines are sure in bad need of replacement. Good luck :nod:
Thanks and I couldn't agree more.
 
Howdy Again:

Being a #1946 Holley it will have an electric choke. No need for the heat riser tube Jackfish mentioned. would you add a photo of the distributor on this engine.

FYI- the casting numbers are; head- on top of the intake log. I think you'll find E0be. The block casting will be on the side under the exhaust manifold.

Keep it coming.

Adios, David
 
One quick way to tell if you have a 200 block is to count the freeze plugs, if you have 5 it's a 200. X2 or also find the casting numbers and date codes to know the exact year. Good luck :nod:
 
CZLN6":2wd57y9z said:
Howdy Again:

Being a #1946 Holley it will have an electric choke. No need for the heat riser tube Jackfish mentioned. would you add a photo of the distributor on this engine.

FYI- the casting numbers are; head- on top of the intake log. I think you'll find E0be. The block casting will be on the side under the exhaust manifold.

Keep it coming.

Adios, David
Without the heater inlet it would be a later 1946.
I have about a half dozen of these things and they all have the hot air tube in addition to the electric.
My guess is Ford eventually figured out what a stupid idea that was.
 
CZLN6":3b51omjz said:
Howdy Again:

Being a #1946 Holley it will have an electric choke. No need for the heat riser tube Jackfish mentioned. would you add a photo of the distributor on this engine.

FYI- the casting numbers are; head- on top of the intake log. I think you'll find E0be. The block casting will be on the side under the exhaust manifold.

Keep it coming.

Adios, David

bubba22349":3b51omjz said:
One quick way to tell if you have a 200 block is to count the freeze plugs, if you have 5 it's a 200. X2 or also find the casting numbers and date codes to know the exact year. Good luck :nod:

Yep E0BE-6090-B and I was guessing it was an electric choke since there is the one wire going from the coil to the choke. I'll check the block casting and freeze plugs.

The valve cover gasket is leaking, so ignore the mess. Also the radiator inlet/outlet are both on the PS. So there is extra hose going down and around. Something I will address at some point but right now it's working properly.











JackFish":3b51omjz said:
Without the heater inlet it would be a later 1946.
I have about a half dozen of these things and they all have the hot air tube in addition to the electric.
My guess is Ford eventually figured out what a stupid idea that was.

Good to know, thanks!
 
Howdy Again:

So far it appears to be an 80s 200 head with a matching Holley #1946 carb. The good news is that this head is one of the best used on FoMoCo small sixes. Unfortunately, this results in some mismatches if this is the original '63 170 block. The distributor is a Load-O-Matic, pre- '68. It was designed to be used with an Autolite 1100 carb that utilized a Spark Control Valve to send a load sensitive vacuum signal to the LoM ignition advance. The Holley send ported vacuum signal. No match. (PS- there is a good sticky at the top of this topic about how the L-o-Matic works.

Next, the combustion chambers in the '80 head are 62cc of volume while a '63 170 had chambers of 52cc. So, unless the head was milled to reduce volume you current engine will be down on compression ratio and power. The good news is that the new head has bigger valves and hardened valve seats.

More next, The distributor in a has a smaller oil pump driveshaft then C5xx ('65) and later. The hole in the block that the distributor goes in is also larger in'65 and later. So, you cannot easily upgrade to a later distributor that wiil match your Holley carb.

I can see a '63 casting code on the exhaust manifold, and a generator, which caused me to think that the head swap was a quick fix without much thought about the details. However, this is only guessing on my part. The next piece is to identify the block and then figure out the rest. So, the puzzle is unfolding. I'd suggest that you don't spend a lot on carb and ignition until you know, for sure what you have and what the best options are for going forward.

I know I'm dumping a bunch of details on you, but it is best to know what you have so that you can go forward with an objective. Hang in there and keep the details coming.

Adios, David
 
Besides what David said about the larger combustion chambers in the head there might also be an issue with the head gasket. The OEM gaskets were 0.025" thick as far as I know and most of today's HG are in the 0.040 range. This make the compression ratio (CR) even lower than with just a larger combustion chambered head. Your engine should run even with this lower compression ratio and you should figure out the carb vs. Load-o-matic dizzy first by all means. But IF you ever remove the head you should try to address the lower CR. There are on-line CR calculators which should help you determine how much needs to be milled from the head, block or both.
 
The missing freeze plug at the accessory mount, tells me it is a 70's and up block, could be 170 or 200.
 
Sorry for the delay guys, had some rear suspension issues and that had been taking all of my attention.

So back to the motor, I don't want to get my hopes up, but it looks to me that I have 5 freeze plugs.

3 in front of the exhaust manifold flange:



and 2 more tucked behind the starter and flange:



Am I right?

If so, that would at least mean my compression isn't messed up, just that I'm running some early accessories maybe. Not familiar enough with these motors yet. Working on it.
 
Oh and I found some numbers on the case.

I THINK it's:
D8BE
6015-GD

But I'm not sure, I have been googling looking for popular combos.

 
lowrustbkt":bgu6oxk9 said:
Oh and I found some numbers on the case.

I THINK it's:
D8BE
6015-GD

But I'm not sure, I have been googling looking for popular combos.



Welcome, and let me say, your a photographer of exceptional merrit. I was messmerized by your Comete and the depth of your abilities in chatching photos. Your Seeing. Seeing with a captial S. Well done!

Back to those engine casting numbers.

Yeah, it is D8BE 6015-GD T code engine from a Fox body Ford or Mercury for sure. That's as late as the late 1980 model year, or maybee a very early 1981 model year B code. D8 is a 'year designed', not year minted.

All D8 highmounts were 6015-G something

D8BE
6015-GE is mine

D8_BE_6015_GE_1981_MODEL_YEAR_Mustang_200_from_image_6864_cropped.jpg


The 1978 D8 stayed with all highmounts, but gearbox/trans choice governmed the kind of block you got.


The D8's got small bell 136 teeth small bellhousing US made C4 auto's or 138 teeth French made C3 automatic's till 1981...my 1981 Mustang was proof.

Then they, the Fox body cars, got an E1BE prefix until 1983, some low mounts, (but only automatics, a few lock-up clutch 164 Teeth C4 and C5 gearbox 3.3's),

The high mount starter engines remained with the 136 teeth 4 speed manual option, or the much more common 138 teeth French made C3 transmission until the last Fairmont, Zephyr and downsized 3.3 LTD's in 1983.

Others with the US C4 or C5 automatic are mostly large bell housing low mounts with a E1BE 6015-BB suffix,


Mine is high mount starter D8BE 6015-GE

Engine number on mine is a B code 1981

Detail is
Stamp 2,
Date O116Y,
Small Code 2J213,
Engine No BR101037


If yours is stamped T, its a 1978-1980 T code 85 hp engine,
if B, its a 91 hp B code engine. All the block details suggest T code 1980, before the new modle year for the block, but the head has a date code. Most 1980 model year heads had the 0 in EO oblitterated, so the head is B code.




Emmissions tune decal is IJ 204-AA



These last two tell Everything about your Ex Fox body engine. The postion of the driiled dipstick hole defines that its a Fox engine. The Granadas and Monarchs didn't use 3.3 liter T code or B code engines after 1978.


Cylinder head date and casting


0F18 E0BE 6090 BB, stock on my "September 1980" 1981 model year Mustang

Head was cast on June 18, 1980!



It isn't abnormal normal for there to be such a stockpile difference between engine and head

I mean, my axle was WGG-C, 0G24 = built July 24, 1980
 
Howdy Back:

IF that block code is a D8BE you have a 200 engine. That's the good news. Unfortunately your distributor does not match up in model year or in vacuum signal to the rest of your engine. My guess is that it is the pre '67 Load-O-Matic. To sync the ignition with the carb you will need to update the distributor to a '77 and later Dura Spark II. the newer distributor will have centrifugal advance, vacuum advance with an appropriate ported vacuum signal from the Holley #1946 carb, as well as no points to mess with. The DS II system will include the distributor, coil, module and spark plug wires. I don't know what your plans are for this vehicle other than Daily Driver, but, at a minimum, upgrading to a DS II ignition system will solve many of your tuning issues.

Good luck and keep us posted

Adios, David
 
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