Need Advice for Planning my Project 1964 1/2 I6

S

StevenCCrowder

New member
Hello everyone, I am looking for specific info on a topic that has been in a way beaten to death, however I am new to the inter working of cars even though I have done much research. I am just a person who likes to have every detail planned out ahead of time before I start so I do not have to backtrack or worry that I have incompatible parts. I have a stock 1964 ½ Mustang with the following: 200 I6, C4 Automatic, power steering, and 4 lug. I plan on keeping a 6 cylinder for the better gas mileage but want something that is quick and fun to drive around daily, but not overkill for use on a drag strip which I will not be doing. I am always looking towards the most sensible affordable choices that is balanced with reliability, enjoyment, and comfortability as I do not want cheap short cuts that will give issues.

-Is my 200 I6 a good choice of engine to keep or should I swap it out for an engine that is more efficient as well easier to work with because of aftermarket parts? Keeping in mind I do not want to sacrifice too much mpg just for HP gains as I will be driving it often.

-If I do keep the 200 I6 I plan on having the engine rebuilt with the addition of either an Aussie/Aluminum head, so far my eye is on the aluminum head and headers from ClassicInlines, and a small turbo like a T4. Which then would bring up the question of should I use a 2 BBl or 4 BBL Carb to accommodate?

-What automatic transmission, as I use to drive a manual and just find automatic more convenient for city driving, should I be looking to swap? Would an AOD be my best choice as I know they have adapters to assist with the swap?
-Would a 9” or 8” rear end be best with, assuming 31 would be unnecessary, a set of 28 spline axels? Also, around which gear ratio should I be looking at for my 3rd member?

-For rear suspension is buying a new pair of leaf springs the best and easiest go to? Or is there another type that is applicable without much fabrication?
-Lastly, but not least since this is probably where I will be starting, I am most confused on what I should do for my cars suspension. I have read too much to where I am in a state of overload, for instance as some forums say Granada are good and others say they are bad. What front suspension is compatible while I change it to 5 lug, specific car/s to use as donors, and are there any that have a better type of suspension like coilover that I could salvage/buy used. The brakes are not as much of an issue as I plan on buy new disk brakes for reliability/longevity.

-I plan on doing the modification in the order of:
1. Front suspension/5 lug/sway bar/pinion etc.
2. Rear end/5 lug/suspension/differential
3. Engine rebuilt/Transmission
4. Head/Intake/Exhaust
5. Slapping on a turbo

Thank you for your time reading this all and for any help you can give me on suggestions of what to use and even the order in which I should do my conversion, it is greatly appreciated. And no need to remind me of how much better the deep exhilarating rumble a V8 will sound or the massive gain in HP... as I hope to at least be around 20 mpg and not half of that. If only there was a way to have both!
 
StevenCCrowder":2hj9ql11 said:
Hello everyone, I am looking for specific info on a topic that has been in a way beaten to death, however I am new to the inter working of cars even though I have done much research. I am just a person who likes to have every detail planned out ahead of time before I start so I do not have to backtrack or worry that I have incompatible parts. I have a stock 1964 ½ Mustang with the following: 200 I6, C4 Automatic, power steering, and 4 lug. I plan on keeping a 6 cylinder for the better gas mileage but want something that is quick and fun to drive around daily, but not overkill for use on a drag strip which I will not be doing. I am always looking towards the most sensible affordable choices that is balanced with reliability, enjoyment, and comfortability as I do not want cheap short cuts that will give issues.

-Is my 200 I6 a good choice of engine to keep or should I swap it out for an engine that is more efficient as well easier to work with because of aftermarket parts? Keeping in mind I do not want to sacrifice too much mpg just for HP gains as I will be driving it often.

-If I do keep the 200 I6 I plan on having the engine rebuilt with the addition of either an Aussie/Aluminum head, so far my eye is on the aluminum head and headers from ClassicInlines, and a small turbo like a T4. Which then would bring up the question of should I use a 2 BBl or 4 BBL Carb to accommodate?
Click to expand...

the 200 is an excellent engine for a modified daily driver. in normally aspirated form you can pull about 175 hp or so and still have an economical engine with good driveability. adding a turbo you can get even more power, pushing close to 250hp depending on how much boost you run. these engines are also as reliable as an anvil, they are hard to kill.

-What automatic transmission, as I use to drive a manual and just find automatic more convenient for city driving, should I be looking to swap? Would an AOD be my best choice as I know they have adapters to assist with the swap?
Click to expand...

the AOD uses up a fair amount of power compared to the C4. the C4 however is only a 3spd auto.

-Would a 9” or 8” rear end be best with, assuming 31 would be unnecessary, a set of 28 spline axels? Also, around which gear ratio should I be looking at for my 3rd member?
Click to expand...

the 8" rear end with 28 spline axles is plenty for the six powered cars, you are not going to make enough power to break one, even running slicks. as for gear ratio, that depends on what trans you end up running. with the C4 i recommend running something between a 3.25-3.55 rear gear. that is plenty for a daily driver, and still allows reasonable rpms on the freeway at 70mph.

with the AOD i recommend running something closer to 3.73-4.11. this will give you plenty of dig off the line, and still give you a decent cruising rpm at 7u0 with the overdrive.

-For rear suspension is buying a new pair of leaf springs the best and easiest go to? Or is there another type that is applicable without much fabrication?
Click to expand...

for the rear suspension, i recommend getting a set of fiberglass leaf springs from flex-i-lite, and adding either a panhard bar, or a watts link to properly locate the rear end.

-Lastly, but not least since this is probably where I will be starting, I am most confused on what I should do for my cars suspension. I have read too much to where I am in a state of overload, for instance as some forums say Granada are good and others say they are bad. What front suspension is compatible while I change it to 5 lug, specific car/s to use as donors, and are there any that have a better type of suspension like coilover that I could salvage/buy used. The brakes are not as much of an issue as I plan on buy new disk brakes for reliability/longevity.
Click to expand...

its hard to beat the stock parts when it comes to the front suspension. just a few mods here and there, and you have a solid front suspension that gives good handling and ride. run the stock upper arms, with the inner pivot point lowered one inch and back 1/8" known as the arning/shelby mod. for a lower arm i recommend running a boxed stock arm with a spherical bearing to replace the rubber bushing, and run adjustable strut rods, also with a spherical bearing at the pivot end.

for front springs, run the V8 gt springs, they are 480lb/in rate springs and give good ride and handling with the six.

-I plan on doing the modification in the order of:
mod 0. stiffen the chassis with sub frame connectors tied to the inner rocker panel
1. Front suspension/5 lug/sway bar/pinion etc.
2. Rear end/5 lug/suspension/differential
3. Engine rebuilt/Transmission
4. Head/Intake/Exhaust
5. Slapping on a turbo
Click to expand...

you will note that i added a mod for you. the stiffer you make the chassis, the more effective your suspension mods will be. i would also recommend that you install an export brace and monte carlo bar as well as one of these;

http://opentrackerracing.com/product/mu ... 1965-1966/

it replaces the stock belly bar with one that ties the lower control arm mounts together to stiffen them up as well. ford did this mod on their boss 302 trans am race cars.
 
StevenCCrowder":7hv55cwn said:
aluminum head and headers from ClassicInlines,
Click to expand...
Please note that ClassicInlines.Com is presently NOT a functional company - do not order from the website . The owner passed away suddenly before passing on passwords , etc. . See here for more information - viewforum.php?f=103
 
whya 5 lug? no benefit. do a 4 lug w disc brake conversion should be ok. I have a 200 in a 62 falcon which is basically the same car, (albeit mine has the stock 2 speed auto) daily drive it soemwhat. handles pretty good but a rear sway bar is coming. best thing i did was electronic ignition and a weber 2bbl with an adaptor. very good fuel mileage for what it is (mid 20's). th epower is good, i can do 80 on the highway, cruise at 75 no problems. off light accelration is good.

update font suspension with fresh components, a swap of more modeln stuff isnt necesarry unless you really plan on wailing on it. theres so much affordable stuff for these cars its ridiculous.

a bette rgeasr for th eback with the 3 speed is a good option. however, have you considered a 5 speed manual? good luck with your project.
 
m in sc":374wyai9 said:
whya 5 lug? no benefit. do a 4 lug w disc brake conversion should be ok. I have a 200 in a 62 falcon which is basically the same car, (albeit mine has the stock 2 speed auto) daily drive it soemwhat. handles pretty good but a rear sway bar is coming
Click to expand...

with the six i dont advise running a rear sway bar. what you are looking for is a balanced chassis, and while adding a rear bar is good for a V8 car, using one with the six throws the roll stiffness out of balance and creates an over steer condition with the six.
 
Thank you for all the suggestions.
-So for this setup would you recommend keeping the C4?
-I was thinking of going to 5 lug simply for the reason that it is so much easier to find 5 lug for a rear 8" and wanted the front and back wheels to have visual conformity.
-I had thought of going back to manual like previous cars I have driven but I just find it more convenient now especially with a smaller engine car to have an automatic.
 
Howdy Steven:

And welcome to THe Forum. Great help here.

I'd add a safety list to the others. It should include seat/shoulder safely belts, a dual resevoir master cylinder, and something to deal with the solid steering wheel shaft that can become a spear in a head-on. Don't forget basics like flex hoses and tie-rod ends. I'm just saying.

Sounds like a great project. Keep us posted as you zero in on your plan.

Adios, David
 
StevenCCrowder":1dotalq3 said:
Thank you for all the suggestions.
-So for this setup would you recommend keeping the C4?
Click to expand...

i would as it would be more efficient that the AOD. i also recommend running a 3.25 rear gear as well, it gives plenty of grunt while allowing a decent 70moh cruise rpm.

-I was thinking of going to 5 lug simply for the reason that it is so much easier to find 5 lug for a rear 8" and wanted the front and back wheels to have visual conformity.
Click to expand...

there are also a greater variety of wheels available for the five lug system as well. in the end its your choice. and there are five lug conversions that use the stock front spindles, though i recommend going with the V8 spindle instead.

-I had thought of going back to manual like previous cars I have driven but I just find it more convenient now especially with a smaller engine car to have an automatic.
Click to expand...

as i have aged, i find that going with the automatic easier overall, especially in city driving.
 
I was considering buying the disk brake conversion kit that uses my spindles but converts it to a 5 lug after hearing that changing the front suspension would be unnecessary. Is there an issue with this that I may run into if I do not go with the V8 spindles? Or is there a V8 spindle that would not require me to change too much on the front end?
 
Thanks for the opportunity to comment. I'd say this is the right place. Lotsa national and international experts here! AND nice helpful guys too, no flamers, which makes a beginer like me feel more than just OK here.

Like to hear more specifics on where you live (piedmont, hills, flats - high elevation?), what type of conditions (no winter driving?), what traffic (stop'n go, lots of freeway merges?) & roads (2lane, freeway, etc) you'll use. And that nebulous, personal taste (i.e. even if described there are many interpretations of bringing it about) thing of: is it for restoration appearance, show, fast, example of your creative side, etc...

All I got (but I'm pretty simple minded) wuz "daily driving some pep, but no drag strip" (or wuz it "no track" [even different]?).

I really like ur idea of planning it out and then sticking to an execution of that idea. I've seen many where the idea changed as the build progressed and created a bit of a disaster. Application of use 1st, thorough research 2nd, do it 3rd. Lastly, will you do the work, have others or a mix? o0OPP - I guess 1 more, is the engine to B machined, modded, or rebuilt (beside the turbo or to achieve the turbo)?
 
I live in Southern California so the weather is pretty stable, it never snows and I am at about sea level elevation. Most of my driving will be done in the city with maybe 4 miles a day on the freeway if I take it, so usually 15-20 minute drives at a time tops. There is hardly any traffic as I don't live close to a large metropolitan area like Downtown L.A. I am not planning on selling it so I am restoring it with new interior, exterior, and moving parts that are more modern to what I find the most fun to have for myself. The engine has not had any work done on it yet. I was considering boring it 0.030 but not sure if that is worth much, so probably just stick with rebuilding it. Most of the work I am doing myself with the help of youtube & forums. Except rebuilding the engine and milling the head to get the right compression ratio will be done by my mechanic who I have been going to for years as well as any other issues I get stuck on. Part of this is for a learning experience and the other is because I have always loved the 60's mustang. I do not like to have to backtrack and rip things out multiple times so that's why I prefer to have a detailed plan of where I am going so I can just install each section at the same time.
 
The V8 spindles are considerably stronger and also use larger dia. wheel bearings this might not be necessary for a 200 six DD unless you plan on running Auto Cross or using a set of much larger, wider, wheels and tires. X2 on doing the UPC drop GT springs and front sway bar, Monte Carlo Bar, and export brace, sub frame connectors, an 8 inch will be plenty strong. The C4 is a great trans and if your original is still in good working order get a newer 1967 to 1969 Select Shift valve body and install a good TransGo Shift Kit into it, a little higher stall converter and a small Aux. Transmission Cooler is about only thing else it would need. Good luck on your build up. :nod:
 
StevenCCrowder":3guci1ix said:
I was considering buying the disk brake conversion kit that uses my spindles but converts it to a 5 lug after hearing that changing the front suspension would be unnecessary. Is there an issue with this that I may run into if I do not go with the V8 spindles? Or is there a V8 spindle that would not require me to change too much on the front end?
Click to expand...

swapping to the V8 spindles is actually very easy, they basically go right in place of the six cylinder spindle. the only real mod that would be suggested is changing over to V8 steering linkage.

and actually you dont even need to change to the V8 spindles if you dont want to convert to five lug wheels in the front, as there are kits available that use the six cylinder spindles. unfortunately i cannot find the link anymore as i lost pretty much all of my bookmarks a while back.
 
my thought is just get the caliper brackets from an after mrkt house and put on late model calipers, rotors, & mc. That takes some finagling (folks here might tell you source models to use) but 4 me the reduced cost is important. This is how I got disc-all-around, needed due to swampy conditions here.
 
Oh wow thank you, theirs are literally half the price. That's the hardest part for me is finding where to get all the parts after I know what I am looking for.
 
StevenCCrowder":249fowjv said:
Oh wow thank you, theirs are literally half the price. That's the hardest part for me is finding where to get all the parts after I know what I am looking for.
Click to expand...

Ain't dat 1 of the 3 or 4 purposes of the net?
Play it forward...

Ask the next one
:unsure:
 
Did you or someone swap in the 200 as the " so called 64.5 Mustangs "Ford Never called them that" had the 170 , just asking before you buy parts for a 200 and its a 170 , if it is a 200 of course its a better deal , cubes cant be beat IMHO
 
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