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My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

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RichCreations
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My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #1 by RichCreations » Mon Feb 08, 2016 3:24 pm

I am starting my engine build, and will have a ton of questions I am sure. I have a 200 block, fresh from the machine shop, it has been bored .030, decked .002, and new (stock) dished pistons, still waiting on a few things before getting the crank ground/balanced. I have a large log(?) head I will be using, not sure exactly which "large log" it is though, that has never been milled, so compression should be fairly low. I plan to run a stock cam, with some stronger valve springs.

as for feeding it, Ford CFI throttle body w/injectors from a t-bird, a holley 2bl - 1bl adapter, turbo from a saab 900, coil packs and module from a mitsubishi, a custom trigger wheel, fuel pump from a volvo, and a Speeduino DIY ECU (think somewhere between Megasquirt 1 and 2 or so).

I am hoping to get 140-150HP out of it (I think that will be just enough to get over hills at reasonable speeds).

Any comments, suggestions?

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cr_bobcat
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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #2 by cr_bobcat » Mon Feb 08, 2016 4:49 pm

Sounds great! I can't wait to see it!
Block: Stock C8 Block/pistons, C9-M head, 1.75/1.5 valves, dual spring, 1.65 RAU Rockers, port divider, direct mount Holley 4412-500, HEI w/20* advance, manifold vac, dual-out Arvinode exhaust, Clay Smith 264/274 110* installed w/ 4* advance, adjustable dual chain timing, C4 w/ shift kit, 3.20 (TBC) rear ratio, 9.44 SCR / 7.97 DCR

Build that Six with parts from http://www.vintageinlines.com

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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #3 by sp_alloy_head » Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:15 pm

Did you ever consider using a Tempo CFI instead? That might be easier to bolt onto the log head directly.

Your project looks interesting, I'll be following this for sure.

RichCreations
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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #4 by RichCreations » Mon Feb 08, 2016 8:43 pm

Did you ever consider using a Tempo CFI instead? That might be easier to bolt onto the log head directly.

Your project looks interesting, I'll be following this for sure.


I have not seen the Tempo CFI, but the T-bird/Mustang/CrownVic one I am using mounts the same as a holley 2bl, for which adapters are easy to get, and has injectors just about perfectly sized for my needs. Down the road, I intend to modify my log to mount the throttle body directly. As a plus, it was $35...

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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #5 by BCOWANWHEELS » Mon Feb 08, 2016 8:52 pm

getting a engine "balanced" is totally useless for under 5k rpm,s why not just stick a good carb on it and keep it simple.
I BELIEVE IN JOHN 3:16 SINCE OCTOBER OF 1975 AND NEVER REGRETTED A SECOND OF IT.

RichCreations
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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #6 by RichCreations » Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:30 pm

getting a engine "balanced" is totally useless for under 5k rpm,s why not just stick a good carb on it and keep it simple.


Well, balancing does have some effect on longevity, you are the first that did not suggest doing it (nor is it that expensive/hard), as for the EFI, I am mostly using it because I have it all, I am a minor contributor to the Speeduino project, and sorta need a vehicle running it.

I don't have a good carb, just an old worn out carter yf, and I wanted to do something different (has anyone done an EFI/Turbo small six in an econoline?), and being able to adjust the tune with a laptop, while driving sounds nice (vs the cramped/hot, impossible to work in easily, econoline dog box).

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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #7 by bmbm40 » Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:05 pm

That is a unique and cool project and I am sure it is a first. Given any thought to no distributor and using a trigger wheel and coil pack? A member on here chronicled this procedure on his Falcon. Look for the thread by "the same guy".
Also if you had the Handbook you could id your head.
66 Bronco-1970 250, NV3550, DSII, 4 turn ps, uncut, 1" bl, 2.5" sl, front disc, twin stick D 20, 30 x 9.50
NEXT- direct mount 1.08 on D8 head, power brakes, rear limited slip, 3G, electric fan, electric upgrades, custom curved DSII, header, 31" tires

New guy? Get the Falcon Performance Handbook and Ford six high performance parts from https://vintageinlines.com

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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #8 by RichCreations » Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:32 pm

bmbm40 wrote:That is a unique and cool project and I am sure it is a first. Given any thought to no distributor and using a trigger wheel and coil pack? A member on here chronicled this procedure on his Falcon. Look for the thread by "the same guy".
Also if you had the Handbook you could id your head.


From Above:

...coil packs and module from a mitsubishi, a custom trigger wheel...


The dizzy will still be there, for the oil pump drive only, until I make a drive stub out of it.

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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #9 by bubba22349 » Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:49 pm

You can use the 2.3 stub in place of the distributor only slight mod required. Good luck :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #10 by RichCreations » Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:54 pm

bubba22349 wrote:You can use the 2.3 stub in place of the distributor only slight mod required. Good luck :nod:

Please tell me more!

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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #11 by BCOWANWHEELS » Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:21 pm

when it breaks down on side of the road you,ll throw that lap top at it. if you keep it simple if you do have a problem you can find it quickly, get parts at local auto parts and be back on your way. only other alternative is if complicated call a rollback.......................
I BELIEVE IN JOHN 3:16 SINCE OCTOBER OF 1975 AND NEVER REGRETTED A SECOND OF IT.

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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #12 by bmbm40 » Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:25 pm

viewtopic.php?f=98&t=67718&p=563638#p563638
This is what I was talking about. One of my favorite reads.
66 Bronco-1970 250, NV3550, DSII, 4 turn ps, uncut, 1" bl, 2.5" sl, front disc, twin stick D 20, 30 x 9.50
NEXT- direct mount 1.08 on D8 head, power brakes, rear limited slip, 3G, electric fan, electric upgrades, custom curved DSII, header, 31" tires

New guy? Get the Falcon Performance Handbook and Ford six high performance parts from https://vintageinlines.com

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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #13 by RichCreations » Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:59 pm

BCOWANWHEELS wrote:when it breaks down on side of the road you,ll throw that lap top at it. if you keep it simple if you do have a problem you can find it quickly, get parts at local auto parts and be back on your way. only other alternative is if complicated call a rollback.......................


You are aware that local parts places sell parts for fuel injected cars as well? I am not using anything "hard to find". Besides, EFI has made cars more reliable, not less. And no, I won't throw the laptop at it, I will plug it in, and be told what is wrong in seconds...

To each their own, for me the flexibility of EFI is worth it, cost is about the same, and for "ME" EFI will be "easier" YMMV.

Need a custom/non linear advance curve, done! Oh that was not right, let me try again, done!

Can't get mixture correct through the entire RPM/Throttle/Boost range? no prob, thats what 3D AFR maps are for...

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against carbs, I have not owned a car that did not have carb/points for the last 25 years. I do however want to run EFI, I have the skills to do so (and fix it on the side of the road).

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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #14 by xctasy » Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:42 am

Rich Creations, love your ideas and work, don't give up on your dreams, go an do it, but be aware.


BCOWANWHEELS wrote:when it breaks down on side of the road you,ll throw that lap top at it. if you keep it simple if you do have a problem you can find it quickly, get parts at local auto parts and be back on your way. only other alternative is if complicated call a rollback.......................


Amen Bob. My WC34 Nissan Stagea 4WD is stuck at the resthome, my wife is uber hacked off with me, and its happened to me in both the two 1996 RAV4's I've owned, the 83 CFI Toyota Corona, the 82 Corona, but not my Falcon 4.1 or 3.3 Mustang or 4.0 Explorer. Selah. Think on that, everyone.

My testimony as a busy engineering technician

viewtopic.php?f=34&t=74445&p=572342#p572342

I prayed and used invocations to the God of Abraham, Issac and Jakob, and to the person who claimed to be the Messiah in anno mundi 3760, but guess what, my car is still dead...


Nobody has the skills to fix solid state parts and components when they go wrong in the field. No one. You'll be road kill if you think you can. You can't self crank an EFI from the engine bay, and check the EFI pump, so there is no way you can self diagnose unless you use Tuner Shop to hook up to MeqaSquirt to then go through the processes.



I know Ford tests its cars for Death Valley heat and Rocky Mountain altidue and Alaska cold, but its still no guarentee that a modern electronic car won't leave you stranded. Its more likely to hanppen with a homebuilt EFI system too. Not that you shouldn't try, just be aware that when the key parts fail, you have to put on your big boy technolgost pants and come on here or the Megasquirt forum, and get some help!

Thats why NASSA had a ground support crew of rocket scientists to help out. Anyone who goes the road of EFI, ahs to embrace the on call people to help them out when, and not if, you get stranded.

You can't have a helicopter air lift an EDIS module or a MAP sensor or fix the prox sensor for the crank...been there, done that. Anyone who thinks they can fix it on the side of the road is in la la land. No disrepspct, just the truth. Your parts inventory for fixing it spans 25 sensors...

I'm not totally anti OBDI or OBDII, but although the EFI and Durapsark III/TFI/EDIS engines run sweet and clean and have a nice torque and power curve, they are the spawn of S@+@n when they go wrong. You'll then need WIFI, and a good cell phone to ring for a tilt truck.

Electronics don't improve the overall reliabity, they just create another labyrinth of On Board Diagnostic tests to perform. And when it breaks down, and it will, it WILL leave you stranded. Happened to me many times. But if its an old carburated Duraspark electronic ignition Ford, it'll be dead reliable if you use Ford replacment parts and follow the wiring rules.

Everyone should be aware, running full electronics will not make your car more reliable. My 81 Mustang was totally turn key and reliable. And emissions era car with 85 emissions devices, but it would always run becasue Ford engineers are the greatest in the world.


Anything after 1986 will be a potential candiate for FORD sydrome.

Found
Off
Road
Dead


I've had 28 cars, and anything modern will trip out an Air Fuel Meter, MAF/MAP, TPS, Crank Sensor, Electric Fuel pump.

Toyotas, Nissans are the worst. My 98 Explorer was totally reliable, but that's not typical.


Everything has earths which require continuty, and relays and fuses, and then there is the normal Duraspark/TFI/EDIS diagonstics. Add another electronic system, and it will improve day to day running, but add a potentail vector for being stranded. Get a problem, and you have to check all those sub systems out in the field. At night. In a dodgey neighbourhood. Hope you now friendly people....
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #15 by RichCreations » Wed Feb 10, 2016 6:32 am

Nobody has the skills to fix solid state parts and components when they go wrong in the field.


Well, considering i built my ecu (not megasquirt), with a soldering iron, a multi-meter, a usb oscilloscope, and my laptop, (all are in my toolkit, in the vehicle at all times) and a radio shack/frys, I could easily repair it (it has no exotic/hard to find parts). Everything else i am using would be easily available at any auto parts shop.

Your parts inventory for fixing it spans 25 sensors


HUH? This is not OEM emissions compliment EFI, for sensors I have Crank position, throttle position, Air temp, coolant temp, map, and wideband o2, and it will run without most of those, though not perfectly depending on which failed, it needs either TPS or MAP to run, only needs both for things like acceleration enrichment, will run without temps, by using worst case values. I will keep an extra CPS in the glovebox, as that is the only sensor it will not run without.

I am a mechanic for a living, dabble with electronics as a hobby, and fully understand what I am getting myself into. As I already mentioned, I contribute to the project for the ECU I am using, and need a "test vehicle" anyway...

I think that to a lot of people EFI is "scary" or "hard to fix" mostly because they don't understand it, or how to properly diagnose it, I used to be the same way...

Yet, I have had "simple" systems be just as hard to diagnose.

And I have been stranded by a failed duraspark box, by burnt points, failed condensers, carb issues, failed mechanical fuel pumps, voltage regulators, and more.
Get a problem, and you have to check all those sub systems out in the field. At night. In a dodgey neighbourhood.


Well, at least with an early econoline, the engine is next to the driver seat, can do all that testing without getting out of my seat...

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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #16 by bmbm40 » Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:28 pm

If you tell us the casting numbers on your head someone could give you the details on it.
I used to own a 65 Econoline pick-up, wish I still had it.
66 Bronco-1970 250, NV3550, DSII, 4 turn ps, uncut, 1" bl, 2.5" sl, front disc, twin stick D 20, 30 x 9.50
NEXT- direct mount 1.08 on D8 head, power brakes, rear limited slip, 3G, electric fan, electric upgrades, custom curved DSII, header, 31" tires

New guy? Get the Falcon Performance Handbook and Ford six high performance parts from https://vintageinlines.com

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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #17 by RichCreations » Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:36 pm

If you tell us the casting numbers on your head someone could give you the details on it.
I used to own a 65 Econoline pick-up, wish I still had it.


I will go look at the casting # now...

I like the pickups, my buddy as a 63, but I love my window van (ex Ma Bell van)

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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #18 by xctasy » Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:36 pm

LOL. Its all good. The MS computer is a good one...a speed density system, so if your quick you can replace the 3 or 4 bar MAP sensor with a 12v cigarette or propane heated soldering bolt...


If your usig the throttle body twin point system that bolts on to the early Silent Shaft 2-bbl carb mount, using a Karmen Vortex system from the Sirius engined Mitsubishi Motors 1.8 or 2.0, its even more simple.


And yeah, a lot less than 25 to 40 polling sensors like the OBD compliant stuff.

Incidently (and I'm a good diagnstic technician now after eight years of EFI pre OBD Toyota enlightenment), the Stagea got towed and the two techncians are working on it as we speak. There was no fuel pump activity, but all 19 relays and 34 fuses were okay. Checked the Variable Valve Timing Cam actuator, the Timing Belt, the Crank position sensor, the Air Fuel Meter vane, the TPS, the Spark to spark plugs.

The shop manager sort of laughed. Pre OBDII with no 25 pin plug you say. Yeah. No problem, we'll find the part thats stopped working. Last customer baulked at the 950 fee for finding which 75 dollar sensor stopped there late model, but pre OBDII car working, should be cheaper than that...100 dollars for towing, 775 dollars for two technicians to find the fault, then dissassemble and replace the timing actuator. Pretty expensive for a P0010 fault anyone can find in a self diagostic post 1995 car.


Any way, if you've got a 65, you'll have the same C1 casting head I fited to my 81 Mustang. You can fit any kind of CFI system to it, but the Tempo/Topaz/Tracer throttle body injection is Chrylser/Nissan/Geo in operation, not the same as the 2-bbl CFI used in the 82-85 3.8's and 5.0's from 1980 to 1985. The adaptor to make it work is a direct mount or a simple adaptor plate to fit it to the earlier log head. airbert made one for his 61 Falcon.

There are also space limitations to fitting one of the Motorcraft single or 2-bbl TBi in the dog house. Nothing a little hammer time wouldn't fix...
Last edited by xctasy on Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #19 by RichCreations » Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:40 pm

Head casting # C9DE-6090-M

RichCreations
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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #20 by RichCreations » Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:45 pm

LOL. Its all good. The MS computer is a good one...a speed density system, so if your quick you can replace the 3 or 4 bar MAP sensor with a 12v cigarette or propane heated soldering bolt...


And yeah, a lot less than 25 to 40 polling sensors like the OBD compliant stuff.

Incidently (and I'm a good diagnstic technician now after eight years of EFI pre OBD Toyota enlightenment), the Stagea got towed and the two techncians are working on it as we speak. There was no fuel pump activity, but all 19 relays and 34 fuses were okay. Checked the Variable Valve Timing Cam actuator, the Timing Belt, the Crank position sensor, the Air Fuel Meter vane, the TPS, the Spark to spark plugs.

The shop manager sort of laughed. Pre OBDII with no 25 pin plug you say. Yeah. No problem, we'll find the part thats stopped working. Last customer baulked at the 950 fee for finding which 75 dollar sensor stopped there late model, but pre OBDII car working, should be cheaper than that...100 dollars for towing, 775 dollars for two technicians to find the fault, then dissassemble and replace the timing actuator. Pretty expensive for a P0010 fault.


Yeah, I think the pre-ODB, and ODB-1 cars gave fuel injection a bad name, diagnose by replacing everything one part at a time till it works... Far from what I am doing.

Nothing wrong with MS, just not really what I wanted to do either, I am using a very simple ECU called Speeduino, it is fully open source, DIY, etc, it can do speed density, or alpha-n...

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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #21 by bmbm40 » Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:08 pm

That should be a 1969 head with 1.75" carb bore, flat topped log with 1240 cc intake manifold volume. Intake valve is 1.649" and the exhaust is 1.38".
66 Bronco-1970 250, NV3550, DSII, 4 turn ps, uncut, 1" bl, 2.5" sl, front disc, twin stick D 20, 30 x 9.50
NEXT- direct mount 1.08 on D8 head, power brakes, rear limited slip, 3G, electric fan, electric upgrades, custom curved DSII, header, 31" tires

New guy? Get the Falcon Performance Handbook and Ford six high performance parts from https://vintageinlines.com

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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #22 by RichCreations » Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:13 pm

bmbm40 wrote:That should be a 1969 head with 1.75" carb bore, flat topped log with 1240 cc intake manifold volume. Intake valve is 1.649" and the exhaust is 1.38".


Do you know what chamber volume it would have had?

EDIT: Never mind, I guess it is 62cc (thankfully!)

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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #23 by xctasy » Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:40 pm

:beer: Familiar with it. I used the ECU systems for data logging my road roughness prox sensors. Actually, josh, 64 200 ranchero, showed it to us way back when as a servo controller in 2012. He was looking at it for secondary carb operation.

Its nothing short of a control systems revolution. I used two 4 thousand dollar data loggers and got one 65 dollar item to do a similar job.

My wife said nyet to playing with the lawn mower like this guy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLTlyO0wmvk

The CFI systems from 80 to about 96 were pretty good, the difficult ones were the Motorcraft CFI, because the development was tied not into fuel only, but Fuel and ingition, and the operation of the CFI/TBI was on some versions tied into some really advanced ingition and EEC/MCU engine systems. There were 14 versions of the Ford 2-BBL CFI from 1980 to 1985, and if you follow the tech services bulletens, they work really well. Problem is, you have to apply the lost art of carb tuning with the new art of brain dead EEC fault codes, and then use your nauce to solve the engine idle issues. Ford really aced the class on these systems, but for 30 odd years, people haven't understood how a choke pulloff and EGR system works, or that EECIII controlls things differently to EECIV, and within EECIV, some CFI's didn't even have isc motors.. We've got guys who have done it all, but its taken years to dig into it, and all the evidence is that people didn't follow the service memos. Even understanding the terminlogy (a motor isn't just a wound electric inductor to make current into motion, but a vacuum pot or flapper valve which operates to certain conditions).

So we had a total failure in 1980 to 1995 becasue people refused to distill out the relavant parts from 200 page service manuals spanning 5 to 15 years. To this day, you'll go on line and find one brief on six different types of Ford fuel delivery system from 1980 to 1985, and no bodies got a jolly clue. The detail is generic, and basically useless untill you talk with maybee one good guy whos been there and done it, and suddenly, you find whole attic of great info.

I'm lucky to have had access to Americas smartest technciains and mechanics, many on this forum, who have shared the info to us all.


Enjoy the work you do. I'd say MPG Mustang was the closest to getting a bolt on EFI system nailed up real good.


Open source coding will help you out. I'd look also at running three Tempo CFI's as three injectors. The injector controll is the same as the EECIV 1988-1991 Ford Falcon CFI, and it used a Nissan VQ30E Pathfinder CFI unit, and it was just two Chrysler K car TBI's.

See /viewtopic.php?f=51&t=74346


Aussies are the ones who have got it sorted becuase they are more six cylinder orientated than anyone else in the world. The key goodie with this is the lack of runtime errors that I had to work around on my 8 bit data loggers I used from 2003 to 2009, and even the 16 bits from 2010 to 2015.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcwrLTaYJ_o

EFI engine based on 45 year old 1969 2V Kent 1600 Ford Capri
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #24 by RichCreations » Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:00 am

:beer: Familiar with it. I used the ECU systems for data logging my road roughness prox sensors. Actually, josh, 64 200 ranchero, showed it to us way back when as a servo controller in 2012. He was looking at it for secondary carb operation.


It has come a long way in just this last year, to the point of being a fully functioning EFI system...

some CFI's didn't even have isc motors..


Yeah, the CFI throttle body I am using is one of those, plain old fashioned bi-metal strip choke element, controlling a fast idle cam.

I'd look also at running three Tempo CFI's as three injectors. The injector controll is the same as the EECIV 1988-1991 Ford Falcon CFI, and it used a Nissan VQ30E Pathfinder CFI unit, and it was just two Chrysler K car TBI's.


Well, I am not modifying my intake, so it will be just one throttle body, I already have the CFI, and the adapter needed to bolt it on, the injectors are about the correct size, etc...

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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #25 by xctasy » Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:42 am

The 5.0 HO M vin code automatic CFI is my favorite system, hugely under rated. If pressure is bumped up from the stock 39 psi, its possiable to use 96 lb per hour in jectors and make enough fuel suplly for a 5 liter engine making 350 hp.

Stock injector flow is 185 hp, plenty to get what you need.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #26 by RichCreations » Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:47 am

The 5.0 HO M vin code automatic CFI is my favorite system, hugely under rated. If pressure is bumped up from the stock 39 psi, its possiable to use 96 lb per hour in jectors and make enough fuel suplly for a 5 liter engine making 350 hp.

Stock injector flow is 185 hp, plenty to get what you need.


I got the throttle body from a thunder chicken at pick N pull, but swapped the injectors for the HO ones.

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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #27 by RichCreations » Sat Feb 13, 2016 12:44 am

well, I finished the fabrication for the missing tooth trigger wheel for my EFI/distributer-less setup, and have it mounted to my crank pulley:
Image

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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #28 by 64 200 ranchero » Mon Feb 15, 2016 1:42 am

That's very cool! :thumbup:
60 ford ranchero daily driver. 200 tri power, modified c4 trans, ds2 distributor, msd programable 6al2, weber ict's, 8" rear end with full spool, 3.40 gears, 245 tires, CI dual out header, Dynomax muffler, 114hp shot wet nitrous kit. JE Forged pistons, 280 110lc cam, around 11-1 compression.

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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #29 by RichCreations » Mon Feb 15, 2016 1:57 am

64 200 ranchero wrote:That's very cool! :thumbup:


Thanks!

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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #30 by RichCreations » Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:41 pm

Just an update, I got my flywheel ground, head milled flat, 3 angle valve job, ARP rod bolts installed, and the rods resized, and now I am ready to get the crank ground, and the whole thing balanced. When I get the rotating assembly back, I will put it together, measure my deck height, and have the block zero decked (it is already bored/honed/etc...)

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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #31 by RichCreations » Thu May 12, 2016 8:02 pm

UPS guy came with goodies!
Image
Image

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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #32 by bubba22349 » Thu May 12, 2016 8:33 pm

RichCreations wrote:
bubba22349 wrote:You can use the 2.3 stub in place of the distributor only slight mod required. Good luck :nod:

Please tell me more!


Well Somehow I must of missed your above request before RichCreations, hope it's not too late to help you but anyway here you go. There is a great post by thesameguy in “Electrical, Audio, and Electronics “ section with details of his build of a stand alone EDIS system for his small block Ford six. In his write up he also shows how to mod the 2.3 distributor stub for use in his small Ford six engine. Enjoy :nod:

forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=67718
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #33 by CoupeBoy » Fri May 13, 2016 12:43 pm

Rich
Apparently I've been sleeping on the job and missed this thread somehow. I am currently in need of a EFI/Timing for a little project I picked up a couple weeks ago.
Zetec -- FordSix Forum
My little motor has no option other than digital/electronic ignition.
So far the items I've found for sale for Arduino have been reasonable for example
ARDUINO STARTER KIT -- Official Ardunio Store $99.90
Digi-Key, which is based out of Thief River Falls MN (2.5 hours north of me) has a warehouse here in Fargo, and they also have several Arduino boards and components.
ARDUINO UNO SMD REV3 $21.54

What is the best starter point for somebody with NO Arduino experience if they want to learn about Speeduino?

I don't usually disagree with Mr. xctasy, but this time I need to correct him.
xctasy wrote:I know Ford tests its cars for Death Valley heat and Rocky Mountain altidue and Alaska cold,
The wikipedia page for Ford Proving Grounds does not list ANY Alaska test sites, what it does list is
Extreme Cold Weather Test Facility (ECWTF) - Thompson, Manitoba
And only a few short hours east of me...
Cold Climate Test Facility - Bemidji, Minnesota[edit]
Stats: Avg. temps are −30 °F (−34 °C) to +10F during winter months
Major facilities: Cold start positions, snow ingestion building
Major testing: Cold weather starting/drives, snow ingestion

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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #34 by RichCreations » Fri May 13, 2016 3:14 pm

CoupeBoy wrote:Rich
Apparently I've been sleeping on the job and missed this thread somehow. I am currently in need of a EFI/Timing for a little project I picked up a couple weeks ago.
Zetec -- FordSix Forum
My little motor has no option other than digital/electronic ignition.
So far the items I've found for sale for Arduino have been reasonable for example
ARDUINO STARTER KIT -- Official Ardunio Store $99.90
Digi-Key, which is based out of Thief River Falls MN (2.5 hours north of me) has a warehouse here in Fargo, and they also have several Arduino boards and components.
ARDUINO UNO SMD REV3 $21.54

What is the best starter point for somebody with NO Arduino experience if they want to learn about Speeduino?


Well, Speeduino requires an arduino mega 2560, as it is a lot more powerful then a normal arduino, I personally use a sainsmart brand clone
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CF2REXC/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1?pf_rd_p=1944687582&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B00761NDCI&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1SBTYG39NKHQD8VP70MK

You will also need the speeduino board, that connects to the arduino, available here:
https://speeduino.com/shop/index.php?id_product=8&controller=product

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just coupla letters different, may B no matter, tho

Post #35 by chad » Fri May 13, 2016 9:26 pm

no an english major by a long shot but:

"for" not "at" (or "in") could have some difference in context here?
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #36 by CoupeBoy » Mon May 16, 2016 11:53 am

RichCreations wrote:Well, Speeduino requires an arduino mega 2560, as it is a lot more powerful then a normal arduino, I personally use a sainsmart brand clone
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CF2REXC/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1?pf_rd_p=1944687582&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B00761NDCI&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1SBTYG39NKHQD8VP70MK

You will also need the speeduino board, that connects to the arduino, available here:
https://speeduino.com/shop/index.php?id_product=8&controller=product
And the associated components to solder onto the board...
Speeduino v0.3 Component Kit $95 (out of stock)

With the Mega, is there any other components that are necessary to buy?
I know you said you like the SainSmart brand, but if they are functionally the same, why would you pay nearly twice as much when you could buy this one?
Ieik Mega 2560 R3 ATmega2560-16AU + ATMEGA16U2 + USB Cable for Robot Arduino UNO MEGA2560 R3 Duemilanove 2013 $12.98 vs $20.99 (both offer free shipping)

If everything you listed was bought
$17.50 for the Speeduino board
$95 for the components for the speeduino board
$20.99 for the Mega2560
$133.49 for a controller is very reasonable (assuming still that a person has to solder together the speeduino)

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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #37 by RichCreations » Mon May 16, 2016 12:40 pm

CoupeBoy wrote:
RichCreations wrote:Well, Speeduino requires an arduino mega 2560, as it is a lot more powerful then a normal arduino, I personally use a sainsmart brand clone
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CF2REXC/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1?pf_rd_p=1944687582&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B00761NDCI&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1SBTYG39NKHQD8VP70MK

You will also need the speeduino board, that connects to the arduino, available here:
https://speeduino.com/shop/index.php?id_product=8&controller=product
And the associated components to solder onto the board...
Speeduino v0.3 Component Kit $95 (out of stock)

With the Mega, is there any other components that are necessary to buy?
I know you said you like the SainSmart brand, but if they are functionally the same, why would you pay nearly twice as much when you could buy this one?
Ieik Mega 2560 R3 ATmega2560-16AU + ATMEGA16U2 + USB Cable for Robot Arduino UNO MEGA2560 R3 Duemilanove 2013 $12.98 vs $20.99 (both offer free shipping)

If everything you listed was bought
$17.50 for the Speeduino board
$95 for the components for the speeduino board
$20.99 for the Mega2560
$133.49 for a controller is very reasonable (assuming still that a person has to solder together the speeduino)


Remember, the prices you quoted for the speeduino board, and parts are in AUD, so it is actually even cheaper (parts are about $70 direct from digikey)

Any mega should work, as long as it is not one with a ch340 chip instead of the 16U... Many lie in the description, but only the 16U ones will work with tuner studio

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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #38 by RichCreations » Thu May 26, 2016 12:20 am

I scored a New Old Stock Master Cylinder for my Econoline! Installed this morning, working great!
Image

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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #39 by CoupeBoy » Thu May 26, 2016 12:25 am

That thing looks peculiar.
And I've already seen the stock transmission crossmember and mount.

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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #40 by RichCreations » Thu May 26, 2016 12:28 am

CoupeBoy wrote:That thing looks peculiar.
And I've already seen the stock transmission crossmember and mount.


Well, it does go under the drivers floor, and the pedal mounts to it, and it faces "backwards" (brake line connects to rear) LOL... Trans crossmember? I don't have one, the trans "hangs" from the frame...

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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #41 by RichCreations » Thu May 26, 2016 10:29 pm

Fully balanced rotating assembly, back from the shop:
Image

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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #42 by bubba22349 » Thu May 26, 2016 11:54 pm

:beer: nice,
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #43 by chad » Fri May 27, 2016 11:17 am

just from lookin I'd say that's not stroked!

Nice 'square motor' !!!
Is the efi for maintenance? performance 2 match the turbo?
boost is on the lower end ? (sorry, if stated I've 4gotten).
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #44 by RichCreations » Fri May 27, 2016 1:25 pm

chad wrote:just from lookin I'd say that's not stroked!

Nice 'square motor' !!!
Is the efi for maintenance? performance 2 match the turbo?
boost is on the lower end ? (sorry, if stated I've 4gotten).


Yeah, this is a work truck, so keeping the boost low to avoid heat soak/race engine issues, going EFI for a few reasons, milage, ease of tuning, to be different, etc...

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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #45 by drag-200stang » Fri May 27, 2016 4:21 pm

RichCreations wrote:Fully balanced rotating assembly, back from the shop:
Image


Looks like they know what they are doing, they usually put the oil spurt hole on the rod the wrong way on the piston. :thumbup:
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #46 by bmbm40 » Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:11 pm

Lookin good. Plaza Machine?
66 Bronco-1970 250, NV3550, DSII, 4 turn ps, uncut, 1" bl, 2.5" sl, front disc, twin stick D 20, 30 x 9.50
NEXT- direct mount 1.08 on D8 head, power brakes, rear limited slip, 3G, electric fan, electric upgrades, custom curved DSII, header, 31" tires

New guy? Get the Falcon Performance Handbook and Ford six high performance parts from https://vintageinlines.com

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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #47 by RichCreations » Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:42 pm

bmbm40 wrote:Plaza Machine?

I Don't understand?

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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #48 by bmbm40 » Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:05 pm

Plaza Machine in Reno. Are they still there? My friend used to take all his work there.
66 Bronco-1970 250, NV3550, DSII, 4 turn ps, uncut, 1" bl, 2.5" sl, front disc, twin stick D 20, 30 x 9.50
NEXT- direct mount 1.08 on D8 head, power brakes, rear limited slip, 3G, electric fan, electric upgrades, custom curved DSII, header, 31" tires

New guy? Get the Falcon Performance Handbook and Ford six high performance parts from https://vintageinlines.com

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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #49 by RichCreations » Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:17 pm

bmbm40 wrote:Plaza Machine in Reno. Are they still there? My friend used to take all his work there.


I am in the SF Bay, the machine work was done at Loyds Engineering in Oakley Ca, (though I think they sent the crank out to Sacramento)

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Re: My 200 EFI Turbo build ('65 Econoline)

Post #50 by bmbm40 » Sat Jun 11, 2016 6:19 pm

Oh sorry, for some reason I thought you were in the Reno/Sparks area.
That is an impressive engine build for your Econoline by the way. Very high tech with EFI, turbo and advanced ignition system I don't recall seeing that combination on another vehicle. Might start a trend.
66 Bronco-1970 250, NV3550, DSII, 4 turn ps, uncut, 1" bl, 2.5" sl, front disc, twin stick D 20, 30 x 9.50
NEXT- direct mount 1.08 on D8 head, power brakes, rear limited slip, 3G, electric fan, electric upgrades, custom curved DSII, header, 31" tires

New guy? Get the Falcon Performance Handbook and Ford six high performance parts from https://vintageinlines.com

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