1978 200ci build.. Go...

harris4d

New member
Supporter 2021
Okay so let's see how this goes..

1978 Ford 200ci with C4 Transmission.
Motor is totally stock, has fiber head gasket so the head has been off.
Combustion chamber 62cc's so the head has not been touched.
It's been torn down and will be delivered to machine shop on Tuesday.

In the end I want a nicely modified daily driver.
I am thinking 2 barrel carburetor and new cam.
I've already chosen the duraspark 1 distributer as I like the stock look.
I'm not interested in headers so I'm keeping the stock exhaust manifold but will upgrade to 2.25" exhaust.

Whenever someone ask a question like "how much should I mill off my head" the conversation gets to deep to keep my attention.

So tell this 54 year old kindergarten student what you would do.

Give me specks -
what would you do - head milling, cam selection, piston choice, and so on..

It will be going into my 1962 Comet.

Thank you.
 
Pick the cam first, based upon what you want out of the vehicle, intended use etc. Then build the engine around the cam.
 
It seems milling down to 52-54cc chambers gives a compression ration which is fairly street friendly.
You'll have to do the math though. There are a few compression calculators online.

This book is a great resource and the authors are members here:
http://www.falcon6handbook.com/

If your car is a fox-body some thought will have to be given to mounting that 2bbl and hooking it up to the throttle cable.
I had 1.75/1.5 valves installed on my head, and had the valve pockets ported as well as the exhaust.
I wouldn't do the exhaust again, but definitely consider having the pockets hogged out.
And a three-angle valve job with a backcut.
 
Howdy Harris :

Sounds like a good project. On the head; Mill .025" for the difference in a stock steel shim head gasket to an aftermarket. Mill .050" to reduce chambers from 62cc to 52cc. All in mill the head .075". This will give you a CR in the 9:1 range. Ideal with the recommended cam specs. Be sure to re-establish the oil transfer slot at the back of the head. Be sure to clean the head bolt holes out. While milling, specify a three angle valve job with a back-cut on the intake valves. 1.5" exhaust valves are a nice addition but with a stock log manifold probably not necessary. An adjustable rocker arm assembly would be nice to max the cam and minimize lifter pump up. Also have the stock springs shimmed up .030".

While the head is off get it machined to adapt a two barrel carb. I'd suggest an Autolite 2100, 1.14 or smaller. You'll need to adapt a cable linkage. The late model valve cover will be helpful in adapting.

On the exhaust; take a look at the out hole. It will only be a full 2" at the machined outlet. take some time to open the casting above the machining out to a full 2". A 2" pipe will be adequate for a stock exhaust manifold. Use a 2" turbo type muffler.

Early DuraSpark distributor is a great choice. You might consider getting it recurved for you engine. Also a MSD Blaster coil is a worthwhile addition. If you can snag a complete system from the recycle yard get the wiring harness too, along with the module, wires and plugs.

On the cam, with an auto trans, select one in the 260 range with a lobe center angle favoring high vacuum for your auto transmission.

Do you know the rear end gear ratio in the Comet?

Questions? That should get you started. Keep us posted on your progress.

Adios, David
 
Econoline":1mcjx7z2 said:
Pick the cam first, based upon what you want out of the vehicle, intended use etc. Then build the engine around the cam.
1 @ the RPMs of 80% of ur driving time.
For a mild street build follow the rest of the instructions above,
w/the 2V direct mount carb I'd add some nice
Speed Daddy stainless shorty headers from fleebay (w/port divider), they are great quality and the guys here have been talkin them up due to current very low price! Gives better sound, looks, & a slight bump in performance. I know U said "No!" but they're soooo affordable...
 
Just built a '78 250 so there is a little difference with the longer stroke but hopefully this will help you in general. My cam is 264/264 with 110 lobe center. I love it but it is borderline at an idle with my stock converter - but sounds very lopey and awesome! The carb is a Weber 38/38. I milled only .060" off the 62cc head. With the Felpro gasket the compression is still up however not a full point. Had the valves done triple grind on the intake and radius-ed on the exhaust valves. Lifters are Hylift Johnson, Adjustable rockers from RAU (Watch the push rod length close to give plenty of adjustment room on the rockers!!) You might be able to get the double roller timing set for your motor, lucky! It wasn't available for mine. I went with the DUI distributor which is pricey and not stock looking but I swear you could arc weld with the thing!! Single wire, I just love it. I am running a header. The whole project was built with the block in the car. My 59 year old back can tell you all about that!!

This combination is very responsive and makes a nice but not too radical package. For the Weber a simple Lokar universal cable did the trick with an aluminum stand I made for the near carb mount. Also, if you can find a rubber valve cover gasket it works great without sealant when taking the cover on and off a few times. I tightened mine just finger tight with a nut driver and it has yet to leak a drop.

You have a great project ahead of you....enjoy!!
 
I want to thank each of you for responding..
Each response has added value to my project.

Right now the block is at the shop getting worked over..
As I suspected the block is Virgin and will be punched out. 0.03..

I'll be cleaning up the head and milling ~0.70

I just hung up with Schneider Cams and as you guys said he recommended something not in the catalog.
256 intake
262 exhaust
.420 lift
110 lobe separation.
(ordered!)


Again, thank you all for the suggestions. BTW.. I read these posts dang near hourly but didn't want to chime in till now as I wanted as many responses as possible..
 
Our pleasure harris4d! We were lucky to find this forum weren't we?! If it wasn't for all these guys I would still be trying to get the cam wrestled out of my block!! Ha, humbling, and great help all the way around. Have fun and keep the updates coming.
 
"...and keep the updates coming..."
that's right, take a lill, give a lill...
AND
don't 4get - We LUV pic!
 
78 granada":1ecx5znb said:
Just built a '78 250 so there is a little difference with the longer stroke but hopefully this will help you in general. My cam is 264/264 with 110 lobe center. I love it but it is borderline at an idle with my stock converter - but sounds very lopey and awesome! The carb is a Weber 38/38. I milled only .060" off the 62cc head. With the Felpro gasket the compression is still up however not a full point. Had the valves done triple grind on the intake and radius-ed on the exhaust valves. Lifters are Hylift Johnson, Adjustable rockers from RAU (Watch the push rod length close to give plenty of adjustment room on the rockers!!) You might be able to get the double roller timing set for your motor, lucky! It wasn't available for mine. I went with the DUI distributor which is pricey and not stock looking but I swear you could arc weld with the thing!! Single wire, I just love it. I am running a header. The whole project was built with the block in the car. My 59 year old back can tell you all about that!!

This combination is very responsive and makes a nice but not too radical package. For the Weber a simple Lokar universal cable did the trick with an aluminum stand I made for the near carb mount. Also, if you can find a rubber valve cover gasket it works great without sealant when taking the cover on and off a few times. I tightened mine just finger tight with a nut driver and it has yet to leak a drop.

You have a great project ahead of you....enjoy!!
There is a big difference between a 250" engine & the 200" engine as far as camshaft choice is concerned.
Both of you need proper distributor work to get the best out of your combination.
The DUI's curve is just a generic deal. The 264-110 L/C should idle fine on your 250" engine. with proper distributor calibration.
 
harris4d":aci6cru1 said:
Okay so let's see how this goes..

1978 Ford 200ci with C4 Transmission.
Motor is totally stock, has fiber head gasket so the head has been off.
Combustion chamber 62cc's so the head has not been touched.
It's been torn down and will be delivered to machine shop on Tuesday.

not necessarily. at some point in time ford switched from the steel shim head gasket to the composite head gasket as used on your engine, so it is very likely that your engine has never been apart.

In the end I want a nicely modified daily driver.
I am thinking 2 barrel carburetor and new cam.
I've already chosen the duraspark 1 distributer as I like the stock look.
I'm not interested in headers so I'm keeping the stock exhaust manifold but will upgrade to 2.25" exhaust.

ok you have already done the biggest thing you can do, and that is decide what you want from the engine. in this case a daily driver. that means the engine will spend at least 80% of its time in the 1000-4500 rpm range, so when selecting a cam pick on that operates in that rpm range.

Whenever someone ask a question like "how much should I mill off my head" the conversation gets to deep to keep my attention.

ok what you need is a compression ratio calculator so you can run the numbers and figure out how much needs to be milled to get the compression ratio you want. here is one that you can use easily and shouldnt be too confusing for you;

https://www.summitracing.com/expertadvi ... calculator

it will also give you the engines displacement as well. now it isnt as detailed as some are, but then you dont need heavy detail.

So tell this 54 year old kindergarten student what you would do.

Give me specks -
what would you do - head milling, cam selection, piston choice, and so on..

It will be going into my 1962 Comet.

Thank you.

i would run a good flat top piston, stock cast replacement is fine, no need to spend a bunch of money you dont need to.

for a cam clay smith makes a couple of good ones to use, check vintageinlines.com for a selection of cams. one with 264/264 or 264/274 duration and 110 degree lobe separation angles is really nice for the street. the comp cams 260he grind is also good in these motors.

for head milling again i would run the numbers carefully before deciding how much to mill the heads. you can easily go .050-.075" with that head. what you want to end up with is a compression ratio of around 9.5:1 so you can run 87 octane fuel, a decent amount of ignition lead, etc.

i would also have your machine shop install 1.50" exhaust valves for better outflow of the exhaust.

i do also like the two barrel carb as well. i used a 2100 autolite on my old 66 falcon 170 to good effect. i used a two barrel to one barrel intake adapter, however since you have the head off and will be doing some machine work, you might consider a direct mount set up. again vintageinlines.com can help you there as well.
 
rbohm":1dvab64s said:
Whenever someone ask a question like "how much should I mill off my head" the conversation gets to deep to keep my attention.
ok what you need is a compression ratio calculator so you can run the numbers and figure out how much needs to be milled to get the compression ratio you want. here is one that you can use easily and shouldnt be too confusing for you;
https://www.summitracing.com/expertadvi ... calculator
it will also give you the engines displacement as well. now it isnt as detailed as some are, but then you dont need heavy detail.
Thanks for the link.
What is meant by deck "clearence" in the caculator?
Is that the same language we use for "deck hight"?
I appreciate it!
 
deck clearance and deck height are technically two different tiems, the deck height is how tall the block is from the crank centerline to the top of the deck. deck clearance is how far down in the cylinder the piston is from the top of the block.
 
thanks ~
assuming that is @ the specific piston's TDC, yes?
 
My Machinist will do my calculations but...

I also have a question concerning the calculator.

What is the difference between "cylinder head volume" and "effective dome volume"

Thanks, D.
 
Howdy:

When assessing static compression ratios-
deck height= From the top of the piston to the top of the block. in other words, how far down in the cylinder is the piston when at top dead center.
deck clearance= deck height plus the thickness of the head gasket. On a stock OEM 200 the deck height is typically .025". The stock OEM steel shim head gasket is .025". Deck clearance is .050". This number is important to know when trying to maximize quench.

"Cylinder head volume" is the volume of a head chamber in cubic centimeters.
"Effective Cylinder head Volume" is a term I am not familiar with. Anybody???? My guess is that it would include Cylinder head volume + head gasket volume+ deck height volume+ piston dish volume = ???

I'm hoping this is clear. any questions?

Adios, David
 
effective dome volume is the amount of space any dome takes up, or any dish adds to the compressed volume of the cylinder in question. for instance if you have a pop up piston, the dome takes away cylinder volume. the piston manufacturer has a spec for that. same with the amount of dish in the top of the piston.
 
wsa111":36q1gw31 said:
& the 200" engine as far as camshaft choice is concerned. Both of you need proper distributor work to get the best out of your combination. The DUI's curve is just a generic deal. The 264-110 L/C should idle fine on your 250" engine. with proper distributor calibration.[/quote:36q1gw31 said:
Can you please explain distributor curving..
Thanks
 
"...explain distributor curving…"
Yes, but not as well as the "CI Archive" that is listed at this forum's "Index" page (click on 3rd horizontal line above @ the "144 - 250 "Sm Blk 6 Perf" & find the stared item of this name, click on that go to ignition timing on the window that opens) or get the "Handbook" sold at vintageinlines.com. I would suggest you look both over to better understand how your engine (system) works. It helped me form the right questions after I began to understand some basics.


The distrib. has centrifugal advance to the timing of the ignition. There are springs and pivoting plates in there that can B adjusted (recurved) as a last fine tuning to the specifics of individual engines after carbs and many of the other procedures. In a few instances there may need to B adjustments here B 4 (rather than) being the last item in the sequence. There R on-line sites explaining the process and we have members here who R professionals (ie do it much better than a beginner - have some pretty specialized equip.) that will do a tip top adjustment.
 
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