Top-end and Cam Build

I thought I would make this a separate thread so that I can actually log the progress I've made. Since pulling the head I have confirmed the following measurements:

Bore: 3.68"
Piston to Deck Clearance: 0.020"
Gasket Thickness: 0.043"
Gasket Diameter: To do
LSA: To do
Intake Duration: To do
Exhaust Duration: To do
Intake Lift: 0.224" <- Edit
Exhaust Lift: 0.231"

So plugging in all of the stuff I know now into my handy-dandy homebrew engine calculator, the existing engine (baseline) looked like this:
================================================
INPUT - BUILD PARAMETERS
================================================
Block Specifications:
Cylinder Bore = 3.68 in
Centerline to Deck Height = 7.808 in
Rod Length = 4.715 in
Stroke = 3.126 in
Piston Dish Volume = 6.5 cc
Piston Compression Height = 1.51 in
Cylinder Head Specifications:
Combustion Chamber Volume = 53 cc
Intake Valve Diameter = 1.649 in
Exhaust Valve Diameter = 1.38 in
Rocker Arm Ratio = 1.65:1
Cylinder Head Gasket Dimensions:
Gasket Diameter = 3.81 in
Gasket Crush Height = 0.043 in
Camshaft Specifications and Events:
Intake Duration = 256 deg
Exhaust Duration = 256 deg
Lobe Separation Angle = 114 deg
Cam Intake Lift = 0.226 in
Cam Exhaust Lift = 0.231 in
Ground-in Advance = 0 deg
Camshaft Installation Advance = 0 deg
Intake Opening Angle = 14 deg BTDC
Intake Closing Angle = 62 deg ABDC
Exhaust Opening Angle = 62 deg BBDC
Exhaust Closing Angle = 14 deg ATDC
Intake Valve Lift = 0.3696 in <- Edit
Exhaust Valve Lift = 0.38115 in
Valve Overlap = 28 deg
================================================
OUTPUT
================================================
Engine Displacement = 199.49 in^3
Rod to Stroke Ratio = 1.51:1
Rod Angle = 19.36 deg
Resulting Deck Height = 0.02 in
Squish Distance = 0.063 in
Static Compression Ratio = 8.67:1
Dynamic Compression Ratio = 7.14:1

looks like you are having a lot of fun with your toys......er tools :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Yeah. Can't help it. I'm an engineer...

Did run home at lunch today to check out my box of goodies. Turns out Summit sent me the wrong break-in oil. I ordered the Bard Penn stuff and they sent me some Royal Purple stuff. So I got to spend 20 min on the phone with them getting that squared away. Oh well...

That lifter extractor tool seems to work pretty slick. I knocked one out for practice. Very nice. Just a little tap tap tap and there ya be. The lifter looked to be in decent shape, from a cursory glance. I didn't give it the complete checkout. Just wanted to see if I was dealing with mushrooming or just sludge build-up. Happily, for this one, it's just sludge. I expect/hope the rest to come right on out with no problem too. Also got my piston stop made.

Looks like, in order to pull the cam, I'm going to have to loosen the tranny and engine mounts, then jack the engine up at enough of an angle to pull this thing. That sound about right to folks? I figure I should be able to find a flat enough spot to put a piece of board between the jack and engine. Would probably jack, pull, then lower. Rinse and repeat for the install.

royal purple break in oil is good stuff as well, so you didnt need to go through the effort of returning it. just an FYI for the future.

yes you might need to jack the engine up to get the cam out, but you dont need to touch the trans mount, just the engine mounts. and dont forget to use a couple of 2x4s under the oil pan to prevent the jack from damaging that item.

I couldn't see anywhere on the packaging that indicated it was "break-in oil". Plus I'm stubborn and I want what I ordered...

i can understand that.

@crbobcat,

I installed the clay smith 264/264/110 cam in my previous engine, a 200. The cam performed well, pulling strongly in the midrange (and yours will be even better with the two bbl, head work and high ratio rockers), but idle quality was never good with my c4 and stock converter. You may want to consider a higher stall converter to improve idle quality.

Thanks
Bob

Thanks! Yeah, I've been warned a couple times to expect that with the 200. I'm rebuilding a 2nd C4 right now too. I planned on having the converter modified when I swap in the new trans. The new one wiill have all new bands, steels, and clutches as well as a shift kit.

Cat:
"...as well as a shift kit."
what and which?

It's a TransGo kit to tighten up shifts.

Oh, OK, TransGo co. Thnx!
I mean is there a new valve body? solinoid regulater?, etc

I think its a new gasket, some checkballs, and directions on where to drill a hole. Been awhile since I had it open.

Kouwell!
Know the rpm stall on the converter?
or how to choose...

viewtopic.php?f=76&t=73331


Stall ratio is equivalent to a 1650 rpm stall on 200 I6's. About 1.9 stall ratio from memory.

A Ford V8 with upgraded cam likes a 2.53 ratio, or a 2350 rpm stall speed.

The Pinto C4 was rated at a 2,2 stall ratio, basically about 2200rpm on a 2 liter Pinto.

Crosley":scfnt8nz said:

The converter needs what is known as a "pinto top" on the converter. The fin angles of the Pinto top increase the stall a good amount.

Other mods inside the converter contribute to the stall increase. Also: the power of your engine dictates where the converter stalls up to

My converter will go to 2900 - 3000 rpm on the foot brake.

Click to expand...

I remember that thread. Thnx X!
Crosley may load up, then launch w/a throw of a line break (or trans break).
Here's 1 a bronk vendor (WH) cites in it's online catalogue for U 'stang guys that has some nice pic.

http://www.mustangcentral.net/tech/c4.html

It's funny - just like the home builder and the furniture maker…we use the same tools and materials but have a very different science and end product.
I'd never wanna spin my tires. Surprised a racer would cuz all that traction is lost...

Once I got a hire to remove a 5 foot square safe outta a basement. I chained up, threw the chain over the cement wall & hooked up to the trailer ball. Even w/the 170 - the thing went straight up the wall & popped out onto the pavement outside. The first pull was on the gravel & didn't work but when I moved over to the pavement, success. It the woods & fields I need the tq not HP.
The bronk (bent8 of course) had the pan fill. I hope to slide it right up to my 250.

So, once again (like carb) I think since this '69 250 has it's tq curve peak way down @ 1,500 RPM the C4 might do w/a stock converter. In a off rd. application I bet there R some upgrades to the converter (pinto top @ minimum).

It'll have reverse manual valve body, billet alu direct drum, billet steel forward clutch drum, maraging input shaft, ultra lite sun shell, performance nine-pack clutch set in the three-to-four clutch drum; a double-seal accumulator; heavy-duty bands and clutches (Kevlar); billet alu servo, and performance servo pistons. As I have not found a way to get the 1st gear lower than the 2.46 stock (yet) it most likely will go in only when handing the rig over to my daughter (permanently) when I age out of ownership. As seen, it WILL be off rd capable, tho.

Cat: Ck transmission parts usa for some street mods to the C4 you'll have.

So I managed to get the existing cam out 1 1/2 lobes. I definitely feel something solid catching in the back. I've tried rotating the crank back and forth to find a sweet spot but I'm struggling. I can definitely feel the rods strike the cam if I go too far one way or the other. Am I doin this right?

To get started, I had to run that long bolt down tight and put a box-end on it and twist as I pulled. The first lobe cam out easy and unfortunately, the cam fell onto the bearings. I don't know how soft these are. I'm being very careful because I don't want to jack this thing up and I really don't want to have to pull the block because I goobered a cam bearing.

I haven't jacked the engine up at all yet. Just was trying a little bit before work today to see what I'm getting myself into. I plan on putting a 2x4 under the jack, long enough that I can try to slide jack stands under for a little bit more support. Will do that after work today.

cam bearings are the same material as the main and rod bearings, and yes they are fairly soft, so be careful. you will have to rotate the cam to clear the rod caps, sometimes a substantial amount.

Fuel pump out and distributor?.

Distributor is. Fuel pump isn't. That could be part of my problem

I also noticed a lack of a crankshaft oil slinger. I'm assuming I should be finding one...