Jamie Miles
Well-known member
Hi, is there any major difference between a 79 and 80 200? Bell housing pattern the same? Thanks
1979 vs 1980 200?
- Thread starter Jamie Miles
- Start date
Yes, the same if its manual. But there is an exception if your car was born automatic (which it wasn't, since its an 1980 Capri 4-speed), see underlined info below.
The information in the last post covered most of it.
viewtopic.php?f=76&t=73728&p=566418#p566418
Look again at Darryl's (super4ord's) post on his T5 to 1981 3.3 engine.
Its in this post here.
http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread. ... sion-PIC-s
Its not the same as the other post at Ford six by RacinNdrummin
Eric Rose covered the ratios of the SROD in this post /viewtopic.php?f=76&t=61787
As you can see, all manuals were high mount, blue, and there were no big bell low mount 3.3 manuals ever made.
Confirming again that low mount blocks were only for some very late model C4 automatic equiped engines, and that all C5 automatic gearbox 3.3 engined Foxes were low mount. But C3 Bordeux automatic's were still high mount right to 1983. As were the manual gearbox 3.3's until the option ceased in 1982.
There is one exception for 1980 cars. Some cars had E0BB block castings for low mount blocks, which confirms 1980 not 1981 as the first year for low mount 3.3's. It would seam it was a Lincoln Mercury thing for the 3.3 option in XR7's, Cougars, and perhaps Capris. Thunderbirds also got the 3.3 and would have had the C4 instead of the C3. The C5 was a lock-up clutch version of the C4, but it was an E2 cast, 1982 model year thing.
Note that falcon60 Terry's car had an E0BB casting in a 1982 Mercury Capri.
So they may have been precast, and laid up inventory, who knows. Big Bells are comparitively rare, not every 3.3 after 1980 had a low mount big bell block pattern. Everything after 1966 and before 1981 was conventional dual 2.77 and 3.03 high mount pattern. Big bell info, if you have an E0BB casting, is here.
It should be non relevant info, but plenty of people think that everything after 1981 to 1983 is low mount because of this post.
https://fordsix.com/archive/V8Bell.php
The six words "SOME automatic transmission enginines of the " should be overtyped where the red word the is the opening topic sentance.
The statement above is archive info that Taint so when taken in isolation....this is because high mount blocks continued for manuals and the common French C3 auto's.
There is a way to run the T5 with low mount, its just not really easy because you have to
1. buy a neutral balance, or have a shop neutral balance a 28 oz or 50 oz Mustang 5.0 flywheel,
2. then redrill/narrow the six bolts for the flywheel to suit the 2.75" pitch as opposed to the stock 3" pitch for the 5.0, and then
3. redrill the top two holes of the Mustang 5.0 bellhousing to suit the low mount 2/3rd V8 bellhousing pattern.
So you can do it if its low mount, just not easily. The factory chose to use the low mount block only for automatics, but you can do it if you want to.
See https://fordsix.com//viewtopic.php?t=38301&highlight=
Terry is a very good mechanic from Kansas.
https://fordsix.com//viewtopic.php?f=10&t=41691
Proof of the continuing high mount status of the 3.3 was the E1 bellhousing, which could cater for the SROD, the T4, or another mystery 4 speed, probably a rebranded Tremec. Incidently, 1981 had a interesting year in that the SROD was replaced by the BW T4, which had the same overall ratios, but got them via a a 25% taller 2.47:1 numerical axle ratio, while the 1980 got its overall ratios with a shallower 3.08 numerical axle. The drive reports on the Mercury Capri RS 3.3 4 speed still quoted the SROD ratios, and its 2.49:1 overall top gear as the final drive.
On 3.3's, you could actually have three different kinds of 4 speed gearbox:-
3.3L (B) - 3.08 open (Y) w/ 4-sp OD (Code 4 in 1981 )
3.3L (B) - 2.47 open (B) w/ 4-sp (Code 6 in 1981 )
3.3L (B) - 3.08 open (Y) w/ 4-sp (Code 7 in 1981 )
You'll have the same overall ratios as that years Code 4 transmission option.
See MotorTrend March 1981
http://www.ascmclarencoupe.com/Literatu ... 1981_1.jpg
http://www.ascmclarencoupe.com/Literatu ... 1981_2.jpg
So every ratio from 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th was 25% lower in the T4 than the SROD, but the overall effect was exactly the same, moon shoot 2.49:1 top in the SROD, 2.47:1 in the T4.
I suspect it was done to eliminate recertification costs, as the new transmission was essentially carrying the same ratios and CAFE fuel consumption figures.
Physically, the E1 bellhousing just had the bolt pattern and pitch center diameter enlarged to T5 sized 4.91".
The information in the last post covered most of it.
viewtopic.php?f=76&t=73728&p=566418#p566418
Look again at Darryl's (super4ord's) post on his T5 to 1981 3.3 engine.
Its in this post here.
http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread. ... sion-PIC-s
Its not the same as the other post at Ford six by RacinNdrummin
Eric Rose covered the ratios of the SROD in this post /viewtopic.php?f=76&t=61787
As you can see, all manuals were high mount, blue, and there were no big bell low mount 3.3 manuals ever made.
Confirming again that low mount blocks were only for some very late model C4 automatic equiped engines, and that all C5 automatic gearbox 3.3 engined Foxes were low mount. But C3 Bordeux automatic's were still high mount right to 1983. As were the manual gearbox 3.3's until the option ceased in 1982.
There is one exception for 1980 cars. Some cars had E0BB block castings for low mount blocks, which confirms 1980 not 1981 as the first year for low mount 3.3's. It would seam it was a Lincoln Mercury thing for the 3.3 option in XR7's, Cougars, and perhaps Capris. Thunderbirds also got the 3.3 and would have had the C4 instead of the C3. The C5 was a lock-up clutch version of the C4, but it was an E2 cast, 1982 model year thing.
Note that falcon60 Terry's car had an E0BB casting in a 1982 Mercury Capri.
So they may have been precast, and laid up inventory, who knows. Big Bells are comparitively rare, not every 3.3 after 1980 had a low mount big bell block pattern. Everything after 1966 and before 1981 was conventional dual 2.77 and 3.03 high mount pattern. Big bell info, if you have an E0BB casting, is here.
It should be non relevant info, but plenty of people think that everything after 1981 to 1983 is low mount because of this post.
https://fordsix.com/archive/V8Bell.php
The six words "SOME automatic transmission enginines of the " should be overtyped where the red word the is the opening topic sentance.
The statement above is archive info that Taint so when taken in isolation....this is because high mount blocks continued for manuals and the common French C3 auto's.
There is a way to run the T5 with low mount, its just not really easy because you have to
1. buy a neutral balance, or have a shop neutral balance a 28 oz or 50 oz Mustang 5.0 flywheel,
2. then redrill/narrow the six bolts for the flywheel to suit the 2.75" pitch as opposed to the stock 3" pitch for the 5.0, and then
3. redrill the top two holes of the Mustang 5.0 bellhousing to suit the low mount 2/3rd V8 bellhousing pattern.
So you can do it if its low mount, just not easily. The factory chose to use the low mount block only for automatics, but you can do it if you want to.
See https://fordsix.com//viewtopic.php?t=38301&highlight=
Terry is a very good mechanic from Kansas.
falcon60":n6vmq4kc said:
https://fordsix.com//viewtopic.php?f=10&t=41691
falcon60":n6vmq4kc said:
Proof of the continuing high mount status of the 3.3 was the E1 bellhousing, which could cater for the SROD, the T4, or another mystery 4 speed, probably a rebranded Tremec. Incidently, 1981 had a interesting year in that the SROD was replaced by the BW T4, which had the same overall ratios, but got them via a a 25% taller 2.47:1 numerical axle ratio, while the 1980 got its overall ratios with a shallower 3.08 numerical axle. The drive reports on the Mercury Capri RS 3.3 4 speed still quoted the SROD ratios, and its 2.49:1 overall top gear as the final drive.
On 3.3's, you could actually have three different kinds of 4 speed gearbox:-
3.3L (B) - 3.08 open (Y) w/ 4-sp OD (Code 4 in 1981 )
3.3L (B) - 2.47 open (B) w/ 4-sp (Code 6 in 1981 )
3.3L (B) - 3.08 open (Y) w/ 4-sp (Code 7 in 1981 )
You'll have the same overall ratios as that years Code 4 transmission option.
See MotorTrend March 1981
http://www.ascmclarencoupe.com/Literatu ... 1981_1.jpg
http://www.ascmclarencoupe.com/Literatu ... 1981_2.jpg
So every ratio from 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th was 25% lower in the T4 than the SROD, but the overall effect was exactly the same, moon shoot 2.49:1 top in the SROD, 2.47:1 in the T4.
I suspect it was done to eliminate recertification costs, as the new transmission was essentially carrying the same ratios and CAFE fuel consumption figures.
Physically, the E1 bellhousing just had the bolt pattern and pitch center diameter enlarged to T5 sized 4.91".