200 electric fuel pump vs mechanical - 66 coupe

I'm sure this has been discussed before but couldn't find what I was looking for.

I am considering converting my 200 inline 6 over to an electric fuel pump instead of the stock mechanical one. I like the idea of adding a safety switch also that primes the fuel system when the key is initially turned on.

Reason - It seems like when my car sits for a while(week or more) the fuel system looses it prime and it takes approx 5, 5-6 second cranking sessions to get fuel to the carb. This cant be good on the starter and other parts I'm assuming. Once it starts then it has no issue and fires right up when you hit the key after shutting it off, even after sitting all day. This is a recent total rebuild on the engine also, so the pump and lines under the hood are newer. Mild build 200 still running stock autolite 1100 carb but considering the weber 2 barrel upgrade soon.

I'm looking for a fuel pump that I can mount inline in the engine bay area, basically near where the old pump is located. I'm not sure if there is a good pump out there that can be mounted up front instead of back by the gas tank. These are the two products I was looking at initially but then thought I would turn to the help of this forum for some advice.....again.

Weber redline pump - http://www.ebay.com/itm/331128230073?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Safety switch - http://www.cjponyparts.com/electric-fuel-pump-safety-switch-1965-1973/p/FPSS/

Is it as easy as I'm thinking?
- Electric pump goes inline roughly where mechanical pump was(engine bay)
- Block off plate on engine block
- Wire it using the safety switch
- Fuel filter before and after the pump?

Am I missing something here?

Please Keep it simple though, I've read some threads that are hard to follow on here about similar topics before posting. Thanks!

60sMustang":2w3q53u1 said:

I'm sure this has been discussed before but couldn't find what I was looking for….
I am considering converting my 200 inline 6 over to an electric fuel pump...
Reason - It seems like when my car sits for a while(week or more) the fuel system looses it prime and it takes approx 5, 5-6 second cranking sessions to get fuel to the carb. This cant be good on the starter and other parts...
Please Keep It Simple though, I've read some threads that are hard to follow on here about similar topics before posting. Thanks!

Click to expand...

Yes, *the issue was just recovered reciently. Under the above "KISS" request I'd say this IS not a big wear on any part of the system - 5 - 6 sec is minimal.
I believe U have an 'old carb' issue. Try hard 2 C if the fuel isn't (evaporating or) running out (the latter - as my YF did B4 the ETHO content went up so much). A wk sit is a pretty long time…

*Our conclusion, I believe, wuz that mechanical pumps are a better over all system to go with.

Glad U stated ur problem, it's so much easier & productive when not having the solution by itself. Let's C what others have 2 say...

I think this is the discussion Chad was referring to:

/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=75708

I would go electric every single time. No risk of fuel getting dumped into your oil, long service life, reliable performance, and faster starting after sitting.

Installation can be as simple or as complex as you want it - your steps are spot on. You didn't mention what carb you're running, but if it's any stock I6 carb I would strongly consider getting a pressure regulator - in fact you will absolutely need it with that Weber pump. For any stock six that Weber is overkill by a large margin. You could look at a Carter P60504 or maybe even a Facet 40105 if you want something dead silent. Each of those pumps is about $40, flows 30gph, and is rated to 4psi - good characteristics for an I6. Carbs on the six only need 3psi or so to work perfectly so even on a 4psi pump you may want to regulate. Summit has a totally decent adjustable regulator for $25.

I really like that Revolution Electronics controller - you can get it from CJ or straight from the manufacturer. I think Summit carries it too. There are cheaper ways to implement the safety switch, but IMHO it's the easiest and most complete. Be sure you fuse it!

Remember that most pumps like to be mounted as near the tank as possible - they pump fuel, they don't suck it all so good. Regulators want to be mounted as near the carb as possible. Be sure to filter before the pump and AGAIN before the carb. K&N has good disposable 5/16" clear-bodied filters that work nicely for about $5 each. The Carter pump mentioned above includes its own filter.

thesameguy":3841bt0g said:

I think this is the discussion Chad was referring to:

/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=75708

I would go electric every single time. No risk of fuel getting dumped into your oil, long service life, reliable performance, and faster starting after sitting.

Installation can be as simple or as complex as you want it - your steps are spot on. You didn't mention what carb you're running, but if it's any stock I6 carb I would strongly consider getting a pressure regulator - in fact you will absolutely need it with that Weber pump. For any stock six that Weber is overkill by a large margin. You could look at a Carter P60504 or maybe even a Facet 40105 if you want something dead silent. Each of those pumps is about $40, flows 30gph, and is rated to 4psi - good characteristics for an I6. Carbs on the six only need 3psi or so to work perfectly so even on a 4psi pump you may want to regulate. Summit has a totally decent adjustable regulator for $25.

I really like that Revolution Electronics controller - you can get it from CJ or straight from the manufacturer. I think Summit carries it too. There are cheaper ways to implement the safety switch, but IMHO it's the easiest and most complete. Be sure you fuse it!

Remember that most pumps like to be mounted as near the tank as possible - they pump fuel, they don't suck it all so good. Regulators want to be mounted as near the carb as possible. Be sure to filter before the pump and AGAIN before the carb. K&N has good disposable 5/16" clear-bodied filters that work nicely for about $5 each. The Carter pump mentioned above includes its own filter.

Click to expand...

I approve this post.

I have fire service friends and fellow Kiwis that team mated up with guys no longer alive. Fuel loads have to be controlled the way the Japanese, German TUV or the Feds mandated it. I just don't like electric fuel pumps and carbs in any form unless it has fail safes for wrining and pressure relief.

I n respose to public ans civil liabities cases for tail end smashes, the German T car, the Opel Kadett and Japanese Isuzu Gemini had the safest system ever. 4psi low pressure tank electric pump, 8 volts via a relay and ballast resistor tucked under the dash. The relay is only triggered when the alternator has an output voltage above a certain level, indicating that the engine is idling. This is a total safety feature that simply disables the fuel pump unless the engine is running.


BUT THERE ARE GOOD OPTIONS OUT THERE.

/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=75708&p=583074#p583074

drag-200stang":3ss5dt1e said:

thesameguy":3ss5dt1e said:

The Revolution controller will actually do that - when it gets 12v from the ignition switch, it runs the pump for three seconds to prime, then shuts it down. Once it gets a tach signal, it starts back up. You can get more priming with more key cycles.

I *think* that Volvo part does exactly the same thing - I have not tried it, but I believe it does. Other Bosch parts definitely do - I know the version of that relay for a Saab will, but those relays are tough to find. I have not investigation the Benz/BMW/VW versions, but since they're all Bosch I suspect they do as well. Around here, the Volvo relay is easiest to find so that's the one I've messed with. On my Falcon with a Carter electric pump, the priming really isn't necessary unless the car has been sitting for a long time - like months. Even after weeks of sitting idle, the Falcon has enough to fuel to start in just a few cranks of the motor.

Click to expand...

Perfect!!!! Had an A -100 with a 340 with headers in a dog house, it was always dry, till elect.

Click to expand...

AHHH, SAME THOUGHTS.... :mrgreen: :wow:




Please kick this for touch if its confusing you. Just blot it out if it doesn't help any, for your own sanity!


At a personal level, Add an electric fuel pump, but for me, an in Engine Bay fuel pump is a Huge No NO.

There are many different ways of skinning a cat, but I just don't like electric pumps in the engine bay due to net postive suction head issues.

Simply, an electric fuel pump isn't like a low pressure mechanical Carter fuel pump, and as soon as the flow rate of a little stage pump spining at 3500 rpm is put in motion, it won't provide the important self priming function required. The pumps leak and suffer static in an engine bay. Its not something car makers do, because the pump is a centerfuge that spins fuel out while lifting it up the stages of the pump to deliver fuel.

Modern electric fuel pumps have gotten past some of the old issues , like having to work in with specificly designed tank stillage pot. They are great, but you have to work around the different way an electrical pump moves gas.

These days, those self prime parts are now held in side a self priming pump, but even so, you'll get 1/4 to empty fuel tank issues with a front engine bay pump, and you'll then need a Lo/hi system like the 1984 CFI 5.0 Mustang had, with

a Lo presure pump to self prime, and then

another Hi presure pump to supply.


So IMHO, you won't get your desired system working safely from an engine bay pump unless you keep the stock mechanical, and then get a helping pump to prime the carb.




Its about five , non candy coated questions:-


How is what your gonna to impact on

zero to 1/4 full fuel surge?,
in crash fuel lock-off?,
the right flow and fuel pressure to the carb?
the right fuel pressure to the carb considering its needle and seat and design?
and hows your hot fuel handling now?.

60sMustang":2jv6nmg6 said:

Please Keep It Simple though, I've read some threads that are hard to follow on here about similar topics before posting. Thanks

Click to expand...

Ah, perhaps my posts. Sorry my friend.... :roll:

Luv your car, incidently, been following its buildup over the last year!
https://my1966mustang.shutterfly.com/pictures/85#86

V8 T5, proper exhaust and cam and headers, I've been mightily impressed.

Way I see it, you can't simplify Safety, or Flow = Velocity times Area.

Or simplify pressure head.

It cannot be glossed over, or misinterpreted. Not that you would do that.





Its not overthinking it, for me its Safety 101.

Haven't even talked evaporative emissions issues that electric pumps induce, nor fuel fittings, rottern fuel hoses, electrics, relays and wire sequencing, the goodness of all new hard fuel lines and dodgey stock Ford fuel tank...


Get some good tools, some advice, and have a go. Be safe. If its any thing like the rest of your car, you'll do well.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwXHaWJbXaw

I'd try and figure out what is happening to the fuel in the bowl when it's left for a week. Strange. Months makes some sense but a week or two, the bowl should be full.

"...fuel in the bowl…"
hAaa, I got 1 bro

THAT is REAL KISS.
1st things 1st…

/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=75708
But, darn…1 of our better threads cited here, 60sssstang.

Thanks for all the replies from everyone. First of all safety is definitely a priority for me on this.

I have wondered the same about the fuel left in the bowl and where its going. The Carb is a stock autolite 1100, which was also rebuilt just before I did the engine rebuild. I know its not leaking out, I'm pretty anal about checking for leaks since they drive me crazy. So on this I'm not sure. I also am not sure how the fuel line is loosing its prime, unless this is a normal thing to happen with the mechanical setup?

Think this is my decision - looks like I will be doing it the harder way, electric pump back by the gas tank. Anybody have any ideas for mounting it? Pictures would be great. I know it needs to be lower than the tank, hence gravity feed. Will be doing an external pump, since the sending unit and gas tank are fairly new, so no need to fool with that part.

As for safety - Using the controller switch is my plan. I like the 3 second prime feature it offers and don't mind doing a couple key cycles if needed. Any other recommendations? The controller says it has a built in fuse setup, should I add another fuse inline also?

Also I am already running a pressure regulator set at 3 PSI.

Luv your car, incidently, been following its buildup over the last year!
https://my1966mustang.shutterfly.com/pictures/85#86

V8 T5, proper exhaust and cam and headers, I've been mightily impressed.

Click to expand...

Thanks! Its been a fun project and a learning experience for me.

and then get a helping pump to prime the carb.

Click to expand...

Can you expand on this option? This is a thought I had also but wasn't sure if it was possible or even how to go about it.

I also considered a primer bulb in the line as well, but again not sure if this would work either. Similar to a boat motor setup is what i was picturing with this.

I still like the electric pump idea, eliminating the mechanical one, but just want to consider all the option before changing anything.

I think... fuel in the bowl.. is like my cat, it goes out at nite, sometimes its back in the morning , and sometimes not.

drag-200stang":1jo9kdvp said:

I think... fuel in the bowl.. is like my cat, it goes out at nite, sometimes its back in the morning , and sometimes not.

Click to expand...

Yes...its a mystery that I cant seem to solve

not suggestion this is the case - something called 'cylinder wash down' by the gas (you'd C it in the crankcase oil).
Some carbs R "rebuilt" but not to specs many have on this site.

My YF - just leaked out (~2001 to 09) under the float (out bottom of bowl)… Never really saw it cuz vehicle wuz run late Nov - early April & often sat the other mo.s of the yr.\

Don't 4get, some say U need a return line on some of these ele. done systems.

Mechanical every time... there's already a spot for it on your car

I've had mechanical pumps in everything I've owned 1930's-'60's old cars... never had one fail that I've bought new or rebuilt. Never had gas in the crankcase or fuel pressure issues. A pump in good working condition will fill a dry carb bowl fairly quickly... but I never let anything sit so long it needs that... except over winter.

My 65 Ranchero has the same problem , if I go a few day without starting the engine it takes quite a while to fire it up.

I maybe shouldn't admit this, but I have never seen the underside of a Mustang.

Where and how you mount the pump will depend on the pump you choose - the Carter I mentioned is round, the Facet is square with ears for mounting. You've got those variables.

Remember the best place to mount the fuel pump is close to the tank, that way it's mostly gravity fed and doesn't have much sucking to do. Make sure it's in a protected place so it doesn't get damaged by road debris, and in a sturdy place so effects of an accident are minimized.

Mine is directly in front of the tank, bolted to the trunk floor. I'll post a picture later.

80% of the trunk, the gas tank is the floor,on early mustangs. If I remember right the wiring for brake and tail lights run along the rear of the trunk by tank.

OIC - http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/a ... 10-013.jpg

Over the rear axle looks like a good place, given a single exhaust or adequate heat shielding.

thesameguy":2zicyda9 said:

OIC -

Over the rear axle looks like a good place, given a single exhaust or adequate heat shielding.

Click to expand...

The evergreen Falcon lived out the rest of its years in the Antipdods, and from 1983 to 1998, the Wagons used Mustang style steel fuel tanks with a Lo pressure primary pump to get the fuel over the hump, and a Hi pressure pump to make the grade for the injected 164, 185, 216 and 217 and 221 hp Fuel injected in line sixes and V8's they still ran.






You'll like this X rated X shell por|\| then tsg!

A nice compact surge tank under a car, and note the Facet low pressure pump for sucking gas from the gas tank of the Swedish ovloV 265 GLE from 1986





Since it was, IIRC, an EFI 304 Holden Small Block transplant, there's the high pressure pump further towards the engine they ran.




You could just fit that in the back of an old 60's style X shell Falcon based Mustang like yours underneath.


Facet pumps are cheap and low pressure, and not under much load. That would be a great priming device for a good Carter mechnanical fuel pump.



Project EFI GT,1966 Mustang GT Coupe with the original 289 engine and 4-speed transmission ,
from Mustangs Plus gives you the lowdown on installing Electronic Fuel Injection in an Early Mustang

Page 4 shows the tank detail

"After much thought, we took a stock fuel tank sending unit and simply silver-soldered a metal tube in it for the return line."



"Our return line works fine. We've run the car very low on gas with no problems. The external electric fuel pump works great!"


"We mounted the fuel filter to the right rear frame rail. A square tube cover (not shown) covers the fuel lines on the floor pan."