200 i6 build advise

Taking the ole 170 out of my car and want to replace it with a 200, after way too much time on the wire looking at who's doing what I have a few questions.

My thoughts are to use a 200 block (1968), a C9OE-M head, stock 250 cam, stock 250 exhaust manifold, pertronics ignition. Of corse I will want to do the good stuff like balance all the rotation parts, clean up the ports in the head, bore and deck, heavy springs, valves, seats what ever.

I want to know if there is anyone out there that's done something similar to this? I want a clean smooth dependable torquie little engine that I don't have to do again-1 and done...

I am open to some constructive suggestions and actually encourage feed back as I have never done a i6 build.

Thanks, 64C

whats it going into? What trans (stall speed of your converter - if auto) and rear diff ratio and goals - just a cruiser?

DSII ignition would probably help a lot.

W E L C O M E 64C !!
New to the ford 6? follow bmbm40's suggestion on the "Handbook" reference (MAtt @ vintage inlines .com has copy 4 ya ~ $20/5). While U wait 4 delivery go to the above 4th horizontal line from the top - "Classic Inlines tech archive" - there's a ton of info there.
The Handbook has a staged up grade that's very nice (stages as in investment &/or progression of performance improvements).

Com'on back after some research wid more specific Qs and a good deffinition of specific application/end goal and U may get 100 opinions. The 2 references above will have about 70% overlap w/anything here except what's seen at our other forums (alu head, efi, turbo, NO, etc). The log intake is the main drawback, bottom end incredably stout, and after mrkt gettin better w/alu head, again - from Matt.

I would not suggest the stock 250 camshaft.
Schneider offers a 250 degree camshaft which is a more modern grind. It will have more lift than the ancient stock grind. Make sure you also get the springs recommended by Schneider.
I have several DS11's for sale in the small six fore sale section of the forum.
Depending on your wallet many options are available.

1964Ccode":2iobulqb said:

Taking the ole 170 out of my car and want to replace it with a 200, after way too much time on the wire looking at who's doing what I have a few questions.

My thoughts are to use a 200 block (1968), a C9OE-M head, stock 250 cam, stock 250 exhaust manifold, pertronics ignition. Of corse I will want to do the good stuff like balance all the rotation parts, clean up the ports in the head, bore and deck, heavy springs, valves, seats what ever.

I want to know if there is anyone out there that's done something similar to this? I want a clean smooth dependable torquie little engine that I don't have to do again-1 and done...

I am open to some constructive suggestions and actually encourage feed back as I have never done a i6 build.

Thanks, 64C

Click to expand...

my advice on the cam would be to go with either the 264 degree clay smith cam, or the 260he comp cam.

as for the ignition, i would go with a duraspark distributor, wire it to a chrysler orange ignition box, and an msd blaster lll coil. that set up worked real nice with my 66 falcon 170.

Howdy 64C:

And welcome. Your description of your plan sounds like you are stuck in about the year 2,000. I say that because it was about then that more information and aftermarket options became available for hot rodding a Ford Six. For example, a 1969 head with an "M" casting code suffix, AKA, the flat-top log was FoMoCos first step toward modernizing the small six cylinder head. But, better stuff was to come. And, going back another decade had the hot upgrade as a 170 head- All this is to say that we've come a long ways since then and still growing. At this moment the best stock type head to use as a base for building performance would be an E0xx casting, that is a 1980 or later casting, any casting from about 1978 and later. These heads will have the biggest valves and intake tract volume, most current metallurgy in the casting metal, will have hardened valve seats and a 1.75" carb intake hole. Oh, and the petronix was the hot deal in its day, but no longer.

The same is true for the cam. If you are limited to a stock cam your choice may be right, but if you are not limited, why not select an aftermarket cam with a much more modern lobe profile and duration and lift to meet any need.

Now choosing a stock type exhaust manifold is a bit of a throw back. I prefer a '68 casting. Why? because they are the beefiest, have a 2" outlet and way fewer bungs and taps later manifolds were booggered with. Cleaned up and mated to a 2" exhaust system including a good turbo type muffler makes for a good street system.

Now, you are right on with balancing and cleaning up.

I'd agree with the suggestion to go with a DS II ignition system. It makes a very reliable, inexpensive street ignition with lots of opportunity for future upgrades. But it must be mated to a carb with a ported vacuum source for it.

Chad makes a case for you to read and study before you commit to a plan and a project.

I hope this isn't shooting you down too badly, but better to hear it now rather than later.

You didn't say what you were planning for carburetion or intake?

Keep the questions coming, and welcome to The Forum. We are here to help.

Adios, David

WoW!!! thank you all for chiming in, I should end up with a sweet engine after we all get it built. Let me try and address this so it makes sense,

Goldysgarage-I just put a 66 8 inch Mustang rear end in with 3.5 gears, 205/70R14 tires(25.3 inches tall), a Tremec 5 speed with .68OD. The car was 4 lug until I changed it over to all V8 stuff - steering too. In sticking with the stock theme I will keep the white walls and put on the 14 inch wire wheel and knockoff spinners from Eckler's I have done the calculations for what gears, speed, RPM I want and between 2300 and 2500 RPM on road trips seems to be a good combo. One thing I need to make clear is all the things I am doing the car has to look stock...I know the 170 has 3 freeze plugs and the 200 has 5. I can live with that but the other visual things like the distributor, the air cleaner, the generator-yep, gonna keep it, need to stay stock looking. I will paint and badge the motor black and ford red instead of blue.

I will post some Pics once I figure out how to do it.

Chad, thanks I just got the book.

Matt, the cam thing seems to be somewhat elusive. Not looking to do any more than have a good power band at cruise should I encounter the long hills of Utah, Colorado or any other road trip I end up taking. Gas milage is a consideration too.

Rbohm, just now looking at some of youe thoughts.

Czling, I agree with the things you talk about and this is why I am seeking advice. It's almost overwhelming the different directions a person can go with these little engines. My car is all original, well it was but I still have all the old stuff. Thank you all for not thinking I should put a V8 in her, us 6 bangers are now a minority.

I look forward to our next chat,

64C

I'm bettin the 2 yr newer carb & DS II ignition will be the stock lookin you seek without sacrificing any performance of the benifit.
I luv the lill 170 & had it in mine bronk for 33 yrs. ownership.

Ck the CI tech archive above ("go there today") to C more abt DS II and '68 + carb (no LOM/SCV feedback system)...

Hi, I did what you are thinking about doing back in the early 90's when my original 170 started non stop blue smoke. There was no forum, not even an internet. A machinist guy I knew bored a 200, did the rods and crank and rebuilt the 170 head. Basically the best parts from both motors. He got a Wolverine Blue Racer cam (mild) and everything else was stock Ford from the 170. To this day I am using the carb and LOM distributor (points) with good results. I know a lot of guys wouldn't think of running this old stuff, but there is really nothing wrong with it. Fast forward to now, I got #6 cylinder going low on compression, and a broken ear on the head for my exhaust, so I'm doing a bit of an upgrade. I don't care about keeping it stock, it is just time make some improvements and get a little more out of it. If you want to keep it more stock from the early 60's that is fine, you can always make changes down the road. In case you didn't figure it out yet, your original carb with the SCV, has a smaller base and will not go on the 69 head. Your old carb is mated to the LOM distributor. If you go with the newer head and original distributor you will have to go to direct vacuum for the advance. Good luck

Thank you B Ron Co, this is exactly why I am seeking advise. Both the 200 and the 250 are complete engines, just gathering up enough to make one good one. Sounds like maybe doing the 200, keeping it all 200 but cleaned up nice will keep me from chasing my tail in too many directions.

The early Duraspark dristributor looks like a points distributor 74-76, or you could use a later dual advance distributor with a pertronix unit, 68-73.

Howdy Back 64C and all:

Aah, stock appearing. Ok; Your stock '64 170 carb should be an Autolite 1100 rated at 150 cfm. That carb on a 200 engine will be "doggy". A '66 Autolite 1100 for a 200 engine is rated at 180 cfm. they are identical in appearance. Be sure to consider a carb rated for a 200. A smaller throttle bore carb to head with a larger carb hole will require some adapting.

You mentioned you have a Petronix conversion. It's always an advantage to use what you have, BUT- For an efficient and stock appearing it is not the best. The Petronix is a great, simple upgrade on an otherwise stock system- which yours is NOT. So, being true to a stock appearing system, consider upgrading to a later distributor with both vacuum and centrifugal advance- an aid to both performance and economy and stock appearing. After '67 FoMoCo dropped the Load-O-Matic distributor and replaced it with a points distributor. In around '74 a new electronic (read no point) ignitions system became standard labeled the Dura Spark system. It is mostly stock appearing. It gives a more consistent spark and no points to wear and that require periodic adjusting. It was followed in around '76 with the large cap DuraSpark II system. It has a larger cap and is not stock appearing.

Let me suggest that you start a search for a 1969 only Autolite 1101 from a Mustang with a 250 rated at 210 cfm and mate it to either of the later, stock appearing distributors. You will appreciated the stock appearing performance.

As long as you are changing cams seriously consider an aftermarket described as a "Mileage" or "RV" or "stock sleeper" cam. These cams have a similar durations as a 250 cam, of 256 duration, but have more lift, Stock- .368" aftermarket- .400" to .420", and a much fatter profile, which means they open faster and stay at max lift longer. A stock-type aftermarket cam will cost about the same as a stock FoMoCo cam. The right sleeper cam will idle like stock, give similar economy to stock, and will be far more fun when you step on the fun pedal.

Next we should talk about the head rebuild, when you are ready.

I love your project so far and your plans going forward. Keep it coming.

Adios, David

64C,

Great to see you made it over here! See, much more helpful and a boat load of information.

Thanks, VSSMAN. I almost have this motor built in my head and on paper, just waiting on confirmation on the head casting code, and the distributor numbers. Just like a good rookie, I have managed to make this more complicated than is necessary. I am quickly learning how important it is to blend the correct pieces together.

64C

The, DS-1 uses same distributor cap and early style wire connectors as Points Distributor. Should fit C8DE and later blocks. Ford Duraspark OEM ignition modules, HEI, MSD etc can be used with DS1 and DS2 electronic distributors.

pic of the mentioned DS-1 distributor:
Mustard distributor cap DS-1 with GM-HEI coil Trigger on vintage performance built small block six..



have fun