8.5 inch flywheel turning

62Cometman

Well-known member
So I had the Flywheel for my 170 turned and thought nothing of it as I'm rebuilding the drive train and it needed to be done. However I read an article stating that on those set-ups the pressure plate doesn't mount to the same surface as the clutch disc because it's recessed, so the pressure plate mounting area also needs to be turned the same about so as to not cause excessive slippage. I however didn't have the pressure plate surface turned and am now thinking I need to. Is it true?
 
Yes, you need the surface/step that the pressure plate bolts to machined the same amount that the clutch disc surface was.

If you don't, it will cause the clutch to chatter when starting out.

Did a clutch job on my first 65 Mustang back in 1976 without machining both surfaces.
Guess what, it chattered.
 
This is VERY timely information... I just had my clutch replaced (they turned my 8.5" flywheel in the process to eliminate some cracks), and it definitely chatters (when starting from a stop in first gear, and especially in reverse).

Fortunately, another member of this forum is selling me a spare flywheel. I will be sure to specify that both the clutch and mounting surfaces need to be turned equally when I have this flywheel installed!

Is there a specification for the difference in height between the two surfaces (mounting and clutch)? Just in case the flywheel was improperly turned in the past, it could be restored to spec.
 
Stock 8.5" flywheel dish depth is exactly 1.0". This is what you want if you are using a stock style 3 finger pressure plate.

Using a Mercedes diaphragm pressure plate, the dish depth needs to be 0.885".
Alfa Romeo diaphragm pressure plate, the dish depth needs to be 0.878".

Using a diaphragm pressure disk, you may need to have a slightly larger spring pocket cut in the flywheel, depending on the transmission. Stock transmissions/clutch disks should be fine. T5/other will need a larger spring pocket for the modern clutch disk.

Rick(wrench)
 
Where did you find the stock depth for the flywheel? I have been trying to figure it out for years. I couldn't even find it in the Ford shop manuals.
 
dagenham":bxoye3fn said:
Where did you find the stock depth for the flywheel? I have been trying to figure it out for years. I couldn't even find it in the Ford shop manuals.

Well known to i-6 Ford-o-phillies. I learned it back in 1985 doing clutches at the Power Utility Company my dad worked at. All 170/200/250 engines had a 1" depth flywheeel.

Aussie flywheels were actually weird as heck 62-65 6 bolt SBF V8 160 teethers, which was shared with the Volvo 144/164's.

I had the best FoMoCo trained shop manager, who had to deal with US, Australian and British Fords, such total cross breeds, Dearborn, verses BroadMedows/Geelong and of course, the illustrious Dagenham Dustbins.

Alan Ireland, the Dunedin trained shop manager told me that Ford service technicians get taught stuff, and "if you think you know more than the Ford motor company, then, Good Luck!". He told me that Ford Technical Service Bulletins save your a$$, and stop you doing stupid sh!+.

The machining witness marks are what clutch regrinders look for on the 8.5 and 9" flywheels...


Rick told us all again sometime before Mon Apr 16, 2007 here at FordSix.

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread. ... nformation
....Nominally, for I6'S and SBF, its always 1.00" .

Ford 8.5" flywheel, step depth = 1.00", as I did the FAQ post for Rick Wrench when I was moderating at FordSix in the Noughtees....
https://fordsix.com//viewtopic.php?f=76&t=42556

Stock SBF and 250 small six, and 240/300 Big Six is always 0.985" nominal.

See https://www.hemmings.com/magazine/hmn/2014/07/1965-and-Newer-Ford-Flywheels/3740311.html

Ford Pintos, 1.125 or 1.750"
https://www.hemmings.com/magazine/hmn/2014/07/1965-and-Newer-Ford-Flywheels/3740311.html


Note Well. NB//


There is a 90 thou depth hole Ford uses to gauge the resurfacing limit.

62.5 thou seperator plate for auto's,
89 thou manuals.


Fox Clutch cable length.....two types.

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread.php?160102-Domed-Nut-for-Clutch-Cable-at-the-Clutch-Fork


And its a fairly comon Fox issue, either in service or if not used. The ball and the clutch work heavily on the cable, and it takes a lot of pressure

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthr...-2-3L-4-speed-new-cable&p=1824041#post1824041
 
dagenham":sofxei2q said:
I asked that question on here several years ago and NOBODY ever answered me.


That's because its Fords. The whole idea is to keep the production line trejectory moving, so if they have to make intermediate year linkups, they do it. To track down the basics, you have to be persistant and thick skinned. Eveything that hapens with parts happen in concert with that aim....getin a car out for cash under the owners toosh.

Never forget, someone here knows the answer.

I was away for two years, and between 2009 and 2011, a lot of questons got unanswered.

Even if I pi55 people off, I still try and answer.

I had to wait 9 fricken years to get an answer to this question...and early on through, even Jack C, whom I love, razzzed me :rolflmao:

viewtopic.php?t=10882

MustangSix":sofxei2q said:
Dredging up old bones on the web, I see.......

I been doing this ford six stuff waaaay too long.....

And remember the two grove pulley for the early short water pump?

Vin Man":sofxei2q said:
C5DE-8509A

That is the number stamped on my 2 groove water pump pulley for my 200 small block six.


Its like Apollo 13...someone here knows where to fit the square peg filter to the round holed one with no new parts....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcFlrGRfzWk
 
"...I had to wait 9 fricken years to …"
/OR/
'Numbers Dummy' over on FTE
A 30 yr socal gent who's retired to…nation wide nos & parts numbers for the ford truck community
BUT
has helped us as well.
I think he took home the ol microphis & lota hard copy (1950s - 2000 I think) from a big ford dealer when he left.
Avail by phone & net...
 
chad":3ma8e5c2 said:
"...I had to wait 9 fricken years to …"
/OR/
'Numbers Dummy' over on FTE
A 30 yr socal gent who's retired to…nation wide nos & parts numbers for the ford truck community
BUT
has helped us as well.
I think he took home the ol microphis & lota hard copy (1950s - 2000 I think) from a big ford dealer when he left.
Avail by phone & net...

bubba22349 PM'd and forwarded Numbers Dummy at FTE too, but altough sensational and dedicated, with just Mic at Four Eyed Pride and bubba's help, I got everything sorted. That's the value of networking with watcha got.

Biggest issue, even before I got my Fox I6, was the miss-information.

Yes, there were H-UG-E changes to the 3.3 in the last 5 years of production,

1. Casting changes to Flywheels/Flexplates/Bellhousings/Clutches/Block pattern missinformation
2. Carbs
3. Emission Control
4. Axle ratios
5. Gearbox types (FoMoCo did no favours here, despite some of the best gearbox designs ever)
6. A/C kicker contols and bowl vent and secondary AIR changes.
7. Acessory drives

But the things I'm most sore about is the missinformation due to Fords all in VECI and "Electrical & Vacuum Troubleshooting Manual" that aren't 3.3 I6 specific. Finding that has been a mission, but the system is simply excellent, and a whole lot simpler and easier than MCU or early EECIV.

1. So its not true that all 1981 to 1983 engines are low mount, and parts do directly interchange if you follow the Modern Drive Line rules
2. No 78 to 83 3.3 I6 has ever had a feedback carb, and the 1946 carb flows around 200 cfm and is as huge as a Carter YFA
3. The 80-83 football catalyst does occassionally block up, but not always, and its free flowing, despite claims to the contrary
4. The con rods are cast iron, and downgraded from 1978 to 1983, which will case issues if raced.
5. The details on emissions transition from T, to B to X VIN codes for the 3.3, and L to C codes for the 4.1 is not clear, BUT DO EXIST
6. The Road and Track 1981 Mercury Capri RS 3.3 4 speed article had massive errors on carbs, horsepower and gearing options
7. This is not a b!+ch, but in addition to the Falcon Six Handbook guys, I got the greatest info from former member Mark P on this message board. He spread a lot of pivotal, great info, but also some wrong minor stuff which ensured I spent a long time looking in black rooms for black cats...that weren't even there in the first place. People like (but not limited to)
rickwrench,
super4ord
Jamie Miles,
Boyd,
vssman
rocklord
JackFish
BKNLINE
pikesan <-- Datsun, Datsun, and Sunny
Stormin' Norman esp http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread. ... nformation

and Anusulac, and of course all the Mod Squad's team and the late Mike W...


It ACTUALLY got worse for me, as my Fox was the only Japanese Domestic Market 3.3 we've seen, and it had equiped a NON STANDARD O2 sensor/pyrometer, and that screwed me over so much for many years...into thinking later 3.3's were feedback carbs. They aren't! So I've seen the enemy. and it was me!


Its only now, 13+ years after myles first post in Wed Dec 17, 2003 can be answered. And even here, I had access to the details, but I missinformed him too.

And I found him asking the same questions repeatedly on another forum rsulting from that miss-information...

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=10597


Much of this ignorance related total miss-information has been debunked. Repeately.

This is especially pertinant to the wrong, and much repeated wrong info on transmissions and bellhousings which has taken thousands of man hours grazing the net, (and asking the same question sometimes five different ways), to debunk.


I applaud the Falcon Six Handbook guys, Dennis Hot 6t Falcon and David CZLN6, especially on undertaking what are the most diffcult Mailase era cars ever. Those guys have been pretty much on the money. In absence of better information, the book covers whole gammit of Falcon era upgrades.
What would ruin that book would be to have to include the last 15 years of info on those seven 1978 to 1983 matters.


I respect and have "stodden" on the shoulders of giants on this forum and others who have shared and passed on all the work done by everyone here.

But I gotta say....

The "IV year" 78 to 83 I6 3.3 Foxes, and
The 1975-1980 X-shell Granada/Monarch and
The 1975-1978 Maverick/Cometes

are all Very Differnent Cars with Very Different Engines, even though they look the same through 9 miles of emissions lines.....

And since this should be is a clutch and flywheel post in the transmission forum, not a 144-250 "Small Block" Six Performance matter


1. Gearboxes,
2. flywheels,
3. clutches,
4. Z-bar/clutch forks

are four double whammy devil items, and are the hardest if you don't have someone to talk to who has been there an done that. They come back at you like a clean room invites a mess. They become the eight woes of Mattityahu if you don't have a friend to see your way though it. You end up with information, but not a solution. Added detail, but no completed work.


Your solutions for those are

the search fucntion on this forum,
The Ford Falcon Six Cylinder Performance Handbook 1960-1970 also covers 85% of anything from 1960 to 1983, the last five years from 78 to 83 are Fox Fords, and a little different
(Get the book now via Matt Cox at Vintage inlines, put yourself on the mailing list, and also save US$4.99 on the best book ever
Follow this link https://www.vintageinlines.com/miscellaneous )
Modern Drive Line,
the people listed in this post,
this link see http://straightsixshootin.weebly.com/links.html
Earl Johnson in Central Texas at hjhnracing@msn.com is also a member of the Mustang community, and he's well informed and just awesome.
and Paul Cangialosi, ( published author of Building and Modifying High Performance Manual Transmissions https://www.amazon.com/Rebuild-Modify-H ... 1934709298).

I hope this has helped encourage you to push on an find info, because I6 engines for many years were the staple sales diet of millions of Mustangs, not the halo engines like SBF's and FE's and 429 Limas....I6 info, it is all out there, and It s like so BITCHEN cuz like everybody's like
Super-super nice....! ;)
 
Glad this brought out a wealth of information for everyone's collective future uses!

Luckily it seems my machinist is more wise than myself as I went out to inspect my flywheel and see that he had also turned the pressure plate mounting surface and my depth is sitting at a perfect "1.00 :D
 
dagenham":1lzv9gjd said:
I asked that question on here several years ago and NOBODY ever answered me.


viewtopic.php?f=76&t=70663&p=541780#p541780

dagenham":1lzv9gjd said:
If this has been answered in another thread I apoligize.
Does anyone have a depth measurement for the 8-1/2" flywheel from the clutch plate surface to the top where the pressure plate bolts on??? I have looked thru the Ford shop manual and could not find it anywhere.
I want to turn my flywheel but I want to get the most out of the NOS clutch that I have to install with my rebuilt Dagenham.


Hey dagenham After reposting it, :beer: Rocklord answered! :beer:


1 inch! He's da man!


Compulsary Kyuss - One Inch Man recital

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jA0tuIrtvAI


As my teacher said, learn the song, remeber the verse....
 
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