What did I just buy??

I am a 2.3T guy with a heavy interest in inlines, and just could not walk away from this hot mess of parts yesterday.



I skipped the c4 because I am a manual trans guy and this adapter was in the lot


I am digging and reading here on the forum to learn what all I have and what potential the pile of parts might have.




The unofficial list of longblock components included forged pistons, polished rods, head and main studs, copper head gasket, 270duration .420 lift cam, and double roller timing chain. I have visually confirmed these parts inside








Are these double valve springs standard? Rod bolts stock? Did the 200 have piston squirters in the stock rods like the 2.3?

Next up the bellhousing and adapter. Can anybody label a vintage on this bell so I can figure out flywheel and clutch parts? The motor has two bell patterns in the block and the dowels are in the smaller location right now. Once I move the dowels, it appears this bell should go right on. Also gonna need to track down a block separator plate...


This adapter matches up to my T5's which is good, but doesn't exactly match the bellhousing. Workable though!




The counter sunk hole with no matching hole in the bell looks like I need to build up some weld on the edge to get enough material to work with. The threaded hole seems that I could drill it thru and bolt from the inside of the bell. Are these thoughts correct?

The plan is to hang a HY35 on a custom exhaust log and blow-thru the 2bbl Holley that came in the pile. Drop it all down into my 87 Tbird with a T5 to replace the anemic 3.8/auto. I will continue reading and researching. There is a TON of info to digest on this forum! Any insight you can share on these parts is much appreciated.

Thanks for the 'share'.
can't C the # of H2o pump bolts - is it a 250? Bell w/hi mount starter (may B a mis-match) don't mean it is (a 250).
Is that an Industrial head, don't recognize the #s ('80s?)

Owner's got no info?

I might use the parts there & rebuild it cuz U can't trust the PO...

Keep @ it, answers R just around da corner...

3 w/p bolts. In the tech section I found a list that says 3 w/p bolts, 5 freeze plugs, and -GE casting all say this is a 200.
Still trying to figure out what the head is.

PO has zero info. He purchased a project Mustang with this engine and his plan was to put a Windsor in the car. He received a list of stuff in the motor, but no invoices... Once he lost interest in the project, the car was sold off and this pile-o-parts languished in the corner. From the looks of the cam, I don't think it was ever started after the build. I plan to tear it all the way down and inspect the build quality and tolerances beyond just looking at the parts.

Oh man, what an excellent pickup. Mazel tov!

Rock stock 1980 B code 3.3 engine block, repainted and rebuilt with forged pistons. High mount block, same as all 1980 Foxes.

1980 emissions head with direct mount 2-bbl adaptor.

Stock non adjustable valve gear rocker.

spare manual gearbox bellhousing is 3.03 C7, 1967 to 1978 bellhousing with MDL adaptor.


its not a D9 (left) or E1 (right) bellhousing



Yours is not the 2.77 (left) but the 3.03(right) in both these pictures





Stock C4 trans

Taurus or F150 3g alternator

Three things.

1. Go to the pad on the drivers side back, and decode the partial VIN code engine number it like I did here.

Detail is Stamp2, DateO116Y, Small Code 2J213, Engine No BR101037

See





2. Its here on yours





3. The rocker cover might stilll have the engine calibration details underneath





4. What is the number cast above
" D8BE
6015 GE" on the block

Hmmmm.


Lookes like a C6OA-6394-C bellhousing.

4th down on http://www.moderndriveline.com/Technica ... cation.htm

C6OA-6394-C - Cast Aluminum, 2 Bolt starter, late Dagenham trans, 9” clutch, 136T flywheel, 6.250” thick.

Click to expand...

6th down on http://www.moderndriveline.com/Technica ... cation.htm is

what is termed by MDL as

C7ZA-6394-A - Cast Aluminum, 2 Bolt starter, 3.03, late T-10 & Toploader trans (AKA Ford wide pattern), 9” clutch, 136T flywheel, 6.250” thick.

Click to expand...

The bolt positions between each are different. Another countersunk cap screw with Aleen head need sto be drilled and conected to make your




Adaptor, TRA-000-627 for casting code C6OA-6394-C, or the later C7 variations.

viewtopic.php?f=76&t=64540







viewtopic.php?t=76203

1979 D9BC-6392 CA and 1981 E1ZR-6394-AA bellhousings.

xctasy":3al7df85 said:

super4ord,and Stormin'Norman, thanks for this:-


SROD Fox bell D9BC-6392 CA suits the quadrant clutch cable. It has the 4.85-4.89" spigot hole.

Use any 9" 136 teeth flYwheel for a 3.03 or SROD or T4.

The common early C7ZA-6394-A can be made to work, but the cable clutch quadrant means the engineering has to be specifically changed for that one to work well.

All SR and SROD bells are 0.75" longer (deeper) than the 303 Toploader, a very important point.The 7.18" T4/T5 I6 and V8 shaft is 11/16" ( 0.6875") longer at the input shaft than on the iron case Toploader or RUG overdrive version found on 1966-1977 V8 and in line sixes

The E1ZR-6394-AA bellhousing was a rare T4 item, which is T5 compatible without need of a 17 mm SROD~Toploader to T5 stud pattern adaptorr. It has an approx 60 thou bigger 4.910" diameter than the SROD and Toploader bellhousing hole.

Warning:-

According to Stormin'Norman, please don't use the common 3.03" trans stock 136 teeth. 9.25" clutch. Thats because the r manual 1978-1981 3.3 liter Fox can only take a 9" clutch,

Aftermarket clutches for the 1966-1977 Bronco 170/200 , 1969.5-1973, 1969.5 to 1978 Maverick 170/200 3.03 trans.and Early Bronco guys have an off the shelf 9.25" clutch for the 3.03 layshaft center Toploder trans.

https://www.tomsbroncoparts.com/pro...5-diaphragm-style-66-77-early-ford-bronco-new

But it won't fit inside a D9BC-6392 CA or E1ZR-6394-AA bellhousing

See http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread. ... nformation

see http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=60556 to E1ZR-6394-AA T4 to T5
and http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=59752 for D9BC-6392 CA SROD to T5

Each needs the later flat 9" clutch (not the bigger aftermarket 9-1/4"as found in the early Broncos and some 3.03 equiped 200's).

Pictures of D9BC-6392 CA

Click to expand...

My bell is a C7 3.03 Toploader. Not sure how I didn't grab a pic of the casting number before your post xctacy. Too busy looking at the adapter I guess


So, I thank you for all the info and links! They are tremendously helpful. It appears I have two simple options at this point.
1) Find a D9 SROD bell, stack on this adapter, and use the sn95 T5 I already have
2) Convert the C7 bell to cable pull, use this adapter, and find a Fox T5

Option #1 seems the path of least resistance If I can locate a D9 bell. SROD and Toploader share mounting patterns and the adapter will take up the extra input shaft length of my sn95 T5.

The pad on the driver's side of the block is very difficult to read. I cleaned off a couple layers of paint, but still not much luck.


There is a "6" above the D8BE on the passenger side.
Is there anything in these codes that is significant to moving forward knowing how much has been changed on this engine already?

The C7ZA "Toploader" bell is typical of 3.03 three speed 60'70's small block sixes. Used with the 170/200's and toploader 3 spds, adapter plates allow using original Z-Bar clutch setups with SBF performance clutches , T5's and other toploader-swap trannys.

have fun

Cool.

BF2311##
Early 1980 block.

Engine no Date code 828

If you magaflux it or die penetrate with a black (ultravoilet) light, it comes out.

Not a biggie. The 2 is a standard landing punch most engines laid up for stamping have.

The rocker cover gasket I guess is long gone during the repaint. I've seen a lot of factory Blue and Grey engines, never a factory red one, but plenty of these engines end up rattle can red.

Just a note on the C4 trans... the steel sheet metal block plate that is between the flywheel and block... that bolts between the bell housing and engine block. that is a hens tooth. People that want a C4 trans behind the small Ford 6 , have trouble finding that sheet metal plate.

In wrecking yards, the C4 trans is removed and the block plate stays with the engine, where ever the engine goes to: scrap or sold separate the plate is lost usually

Option 2b) Convert C7 bell to cable pull, use adapter, swap input shaft in my sn95 T5 to a Fox length input($50-60)

From a link in a link shared earlier
http://straightsixshootin.weebly.com/cable-bell.html

Any guesses what clutch fork was used in this conversion pic?

Just a note on the C4 trans... the steel sheet metal block plate that is between the flywheel and block... that bolts between the bell housing and engine block. that is a hens tooth. People that want a C4 trans behind the small Ford 6 , have trouble finding that sheet metal plate.

In wrecking yards, the C4 trans is removed and the block plate stays with the engine, where ever the engine goes to: scrap or sold separate the plate is lost usually

Click to expand...

Good info! I will not be using that, so maybe a way to recoup some funds here

Ford comissioned the T5 after it decided it wouldn't use the Borg Warner T50. It comissioned the

SR4, an all alloy, Single Rail gearbox, and then did a long upgrade to turn ito from an SR4 into a T4/T5 spec trans. It copied a lot of the Cosworth Vega T50 hardware, a 5 speed also used in 262, 229, 231 and Iron Duke I4's from 1976 to 1979.

The first T5 was in fact the four speed T4 behind the 1981 3.3 Ford Mustang and Mercury Capri. Same 1351 case number as the 1352 order number T5. It then took ALMOST two long years for Ford to get Borg Warner to produce them for Ford again. The 6000 or so T4 gearboxed 1981 3.3 sixes was it. Just the gear set was all that was different. Datsun (280ZX Turbo) and AMC (SX4/Eagle) and Chev (S10) took the inventory at a premium cost to them. Ford just made SROD gearboxes for every 5.0 157 and 175 hp HP engie untill BW had enough capacity.

Meantime, Ford was trying to cut down the cost of making the iron Toploader gearbox, a trans now over engineered for 2500 to 3500 pound cars with 85 to 140 hp.

The Tremec T170 was the result (SROD), an outsourced Mexican trans totally based on the 9 bolt 3 speed Toploader 3.03, but in alloy.


Then they upgraded the imported ET78 Rocket transmission to become the 5 speed Tremec T140, an outsourced Mexican trans

The D9 bellhousings of all types were then all multiple bolt patern, the SR4 is the the BW T4/T5 bolt pattern.

And the D9 BC-7515-BA ball pivot, cable linkage (LATER self adjusting) , was all unified for the Pinto/Bobcat, Fox body and the SROD Ford F and E trucks which had it to. Ford was way ahead in its planning here.



http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread. ... k-question

xctasy":mrbmbimy said:

Not sure what variances Ford made on the 2.3 Tbirds...lots of changes were made when the EFI Turbo came out in three model ranges, Merkur, Mustang/Capri, and then the T birds variances frpm 83 to 87. Sometimes, like the small 4 cyli pilot bearing, Ford back tracted to lower tier FOG/ HUmmer/Rocket German gearbox parts, so you ocassionally can't fit 5.0 forks to the earlier type of bellhousing.


The US made stuff got US gearboxes, the European stuff got European gearboxes. Starting with the SR4 and T4, everything was straightned out to be interchangble with the 4 cylinder T5 and Mustang 5.0 shift parts.


Ford then rolled out a further D9 variation for the 1979 model year to get some inerchangability happening.


The std Fox Mustang 5.0 fork fits the D9 bell perfectly on all Mustangs and Pinto's that had D9 bellhousings, and the Pace Car's bellhousing mount is the same.

D52A-7515-AC left, D4ZA-7515-B8 2nd from left, D8BC-7515-AC third from left, but only the Fox 5.0 fork , the forth from the left, will work


This is the D9 pivot. It's 3 1/8" tall from the trans mounting face & is approximately 3/4" in from the edge of the trans. register hole

That's the kind that works.


Shamelessly purlined pictures from fordpinto.com's Pinto5.0, Pinto Master!

Click to expand...

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread. ... s-!/page11

SuperDuty455":mrbmbimy said:

I think it's a D9 bellhousing, it has the square bit where the cable goes through. I can't find a part number on it. Could it be on the bottom ? It's still covered with thick undercoating...

The part number on the fork is D9BC-7515-BA :

Click to expand...

xctasy":mrbmbimy said:

Yes, Ford puts together American cars with, in your case,
a German Cologne made 4-speed gearbox with a Sierra shifter,
with a Brazillian Lima engine
with an Italian style house badge
with an Italian patent Weber carb by Holley,
and adds French TRX tires
on a British Cortina bolt spacing
with an Adwest copy power steering unit from TRW.

And everyone accuses the Americans of only being interested in there own workers?



In any case, it makes its important to figure out which one of what variant your car has got, because some dummy will ask the question, sure as sure can be!











Confirming the roll out of a one size fits all clutch fork stamped D9 BC 7515-BA. The E6ZZ-7515-A will most likely have been varied to suit, related to that

"Sometimes, like the small 4 cyli pilot bearing, Ford back tracted to lower tier FOG/ Himmer/Rocket German gearbox parts, so you ocassionally can't fit 5.0 forks to the earlier type of bellhousing"

statement.

8550capri stated that the later SVO nad T bird forks are known to have issues with a dogbone clutch lever prone to break, the earlier D9 5.0 usually works on everything, includingthe common D9ZC 6394 EA bellhousing some 2.3 's ran that year.

Ford does try to make it simple sometimes! 1979 was it, everything Fox was the same.

Then they went to a dogboned bellhousing,

which is what the E6ZZ-7515-A uses, IIRC.


L-o-n-g story short, D9 of any sort is whatcha want.

Good fortune!.....

Click to expand...

I bet it is great to be your neighbor, xctasy. You are not only a wealth of knowledge, but you can find the info when you need it.

Looks as though I will be able to mock up the sn95 3.8 clutch fork I have and make things work since I will already be modding anyhow. It is the same style as the Fox 5.0 fork, and if the Fox 5.0 fork will go in a 2.3 D9 bell as you have noted, there is no reason I cannot make all this work with parts I have here.

Yep, everything was D9 BC 7515 AC based from the 1979 onwards, so you should be fine.




see the code number on Darryls 3.3 D9 bellhousing? D9BC 7515 BA

The D9 bellhousings caught the 9-1/8" replacement clutch the Early Bronco guys use. Ford downgraded the internal sizings. C7, should be okay, but you may have to dremel back or linish the inside of the bellhousing to clear.


9" clutch will certainly work, 9-1/8, worth the extra effort in your instance.

Stormin'Norman had some major clutch release issues with it in his Fox body Station Wagon.

Since you'll need good clamping, try the 9-1/8" clutch on on the nominal 9" clutch 136 teeth flywheel found on all 1966 to 1981 3.3's with your kind of bellhousing.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=75745&p=583012#p583012

see http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread. ... tion/page2

Stormin' Norman":1cb9xlv8 said:

Well, after this adventure, here is why my new clutch cable broke and why it wouldn't disengage.

The clutch plate was oversized on the diameter. The shop had a 'seasoned' mechanic/machinist who knows Fox stick shifts, and some of the issues that plague them. He had the younger mechanics reassemble the trans into the bell, and tested it for himself. The clutch was just over 1/8" oversized, enough that the pressure plate couldn't move into place. They also changed the pressure plate bolts from the cheap cadmium-plated bolts that came with the kit to ARP bolts.

She runs like a champ! What a difference with the rear swaybar and posi-trac! No dipping, just a tight suspension all around. Awesome!

And since Ford didn't write their manuals with after-market vendors in mind, I forgive them for not cautioning to check the diameter of the clutch plate.

Click to expand...

Congrats Wow looks like you found most all of the best Ford Small Six parts in one place. Did you get a good buy on them? Excellent choice using the Thunderbird Turbo Coupe as the platform they are great looking cars! Your idea is kind of what I have been day dreaming about building for awhile now. In my case wanted to build SVO clone using a Four Eye Mustang with a 250 six for power. Keep up the great work as shown in your project pictures and good luck on your T Bird build up.

Thanks Bubba. Yeah I got a decent deal. I had been trying to help sell these parts off for a guy, but none of my leads panned out. He acquired the engine with a project Mustang purchase and had no intentions on using the six. He got tired of looking at it taking up space and, since he had no documentation of what was inside the block, accepted my ridiculously lowball offer.


I took a little road trip today and picked up a D9 bell. Car-part.com turned one up in Evansville and the yard already had it pulled and sitting on a shelf. Just a couple more dollars than swapping a Fox input shaft into my T5, and way less work than converting the C7 bell to cable actuation.


For anyone like me who enjoys finding the puzzle pieces that make best use of parts already on hand, here is a shot with the C7/T5 adapter sitting on the D9 bell.


The drill locations are actually better on the D9 than the original C7 fitment and the extra depth will allow me to use the sn95 T5 8)

/viewtopic.php?t=19950&highlight=cable+bellhousing

The cable mount option is easy even without a D9 or E1 bellhousing.

Discontinured user Neatherlands user Harrie.

A dilligent innovator, copier, and duddler of all things

Guest":3f40v1wz said:

here is an example from what i did , a alu bracket welded onto the belhouse for the cable setup . i also got hydrolic trowout bearing for adding IN the belhouse.
in the pic is a 67 belhouse with a 3.03 behind it.i also got a 66 belhouse with alu lip and with a 5 gearbox from a ford euro sierra behind it .
when able , try to buy the quadrant from mustang steve, for welding ontop of the clutch pedal ,and the adjuster on the fire wall for the cable .
you also wil need a new type clutch fork for the setup , with special pivot.
btw good tip , when removing the clutch pedal ,why not instal bearings into the pedal setup. also mustang steve sells them .

this was my first setup, did workt ,but to much torque bent the metal lip and i also did go for mustang steve,s quadrant , and welded it ontop of the pedal , working great , no flex , verry stabil .

3.03 67 belhouse adapterplate and quadrant

66belhouse 2.77 adapter to ad a T5 ore sierra bearbox

there is a compleet history from inliner in the tech section , he,s doing ore did great work with transmissions and belhouses and with great pic !!

Click to expand...