Surging with a Carter YFA?

Asa

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So, after a lot of questions and running around, I got my carb rebuilt and reinstalled.

Fired her up, started idling almost perfectly, but I get a rhythmic drop in RPM (don't have the tach hooked up yet, but by ear it's maybe 100-200 RPMs) then it recovers.

Any clue as to what I need to do? PCV valve is likely shot, so I might replace that (Yes, X, I saw the recent post. It's why I thought of it)

I can post vid if need be.
 
Thnx 4 da vid'a the stang…
no plate & hot roddin in the neighborhood?
Hope the new neighbors R as understanding as mine…
:eek:
 
Motorcraft EV98 PCV, that requires a line in and out,

the PCV system won't work without both.
See this video. It's so common to do it wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIw--72EKU0


The air cleaner can use the Green, White and Aluminim cold weather actuators to make sure everything flows into the engine. An old 1977 Maverick 250 or 1977 F100 air cleaner will have both.


I'd just grab a color tune, and make sure the idle mixture is peachy.

You can tune its fuel only with an Exhaust Gas analyser, and you can only check the spark with an oscilliscpe

Warped_Preceptions_Color_Tune_Gasoline_at_15_parts_air%20to%20One%20of%20fuel.jpg


Here's stoichometry on a Briggs and Stratton...that's the color your looking for.


Anything else, just guessing.
 
xctasy":3noh7gj3 said:
the PCV system won't work without both.
See this video. It's so common to do it wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIw--72EKU0
It's wrong even stock from Ford in the one-line configuration?

I've got a fairly nice Oz 250-2V aircleaner that I have liked the look of, but I'll go dig through a junkyard to try and find a later model filter. Doubt there'll be one, though.
 
All this stuff is nice to have, but its just about getting it running right.

When you get one, any oil filler breather should be going to the air cleaner, not an adaptor under the YF Carb.

this was where the PCV whent to on the similar to YFA carbs, a bolt on alloy PCV inlet.

1981200exhaust01_original.jpg


This kind doesn't work well unless its dampened with an EV 98B PCV.

Untill you've got it dampened, expect an idle surge.


The Frankenstang D5DF-9600-A air cleaner, found in 250's and 300's, Mavericks and trucks.

D5DF9D626DAMainAircleanerfor250_300_509enginesCropped.jpg


is a good one. Any oil filler breather should be going to this kind of air cleaner.They've all got the bid ding in the back to clear the YF auto choke. 2V 250 wont fit it





The old PCV valve is usually plugged into a grommet in the valve cover, with the other oil filler end to the base of the carburetor. The oil filter cap should be vented if this is a open system. The closed system is best.

The breath-through flow on the early PCV was from the unsealed Oil filler cap through the rocker cover, through the PCV valve, and into the air cleaner. 2V 250 was like that. Then it changed for 1973 to a closed system, just like the US 1973 onwards passenger cars.

On later carbs, they had a delicately balanced Purge CV ( Vapor Canister Purge Valve) which stole the BV, bowl vent vapors, vented the stuff to an activated carbon canister. There were check valves to sort out reducing surges. Any problem with the grommet or PCV, and the carb would surge like a B -tard.


/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=73925

xctasy":3rrugt65 said:
...... 3/8" internal diameter line to the rubber 1/8 inch by 1 inch grommet where the PCV valve sits.

6011482GR.jpg



.......
There are a few different internal diameters, but one of these will do.
https://cgfordparts.com/ufolder/fordpar ... =C8SZ-6892
http://www.cjponyparts.com/pcv-valve-6- ... /p/HW1355/



The choke pull off and choke system has to be de-engerised and the engine 100% warm to do any surge idle checking. Its a big 200 cube engine sucking through a tiny hole, which is why no single carb i6 ever idles worth a damn.

The pcv pipe...where does it go on yours?
You got an under carb adaptor to take the PCV line?

If the 7115S it won't be bowl vented.

http://www.carburetion.com/CarbNumber.asp?Number=7115S

74 to 76 trucks didn't need a carb vapor recover system as far as I know.

If it is, then you need to ensure its got a VCV (Vacuum Check Valve) to stop the PCV fumes making the fuel level and float surge in the carb surge, depending how you got it hooked.
 
xctasy":1akw9j4a said:
this was where the PCV whent to on the similar to YFA carbs, a bolt on alloy PCV inlet.

1981200exhaust01_original.jpg





The pcv pipe...where does it go on yours?
You got an under carb adaptor to take the PCV line?

If the 7115S it won't be bowl vented.

http://www.carburetion.com/CarbNumber.asp?Number=7115S

74 to 76 trucks didn't need a carb vapor recover system as far as I know.

If it is, then you need to ensure its got a VCV (Vacuum Check Valve) to stop the PCV fumes making the fuel level and float surge in the carb surge, depending how you got it hooked.
Yup, got one of those guys.

Bowl vented?

Looking online, local yard has a '72 Grand Torino, a '68 F-series truck, and a bunch of '80s F100s. I'll wander through tomorrow after class.
 
Close the plug gaps to 45 thou using the right tool. Apply some fuel prep, and run its azz off.

The reduction of PCV to the base of the carb will help idle and off idle. It needs to be a balanced system.

Then, gotta say it, beg, steel or borrow a color tune, and set the mixtures, or just check what they are.


Before I started, with Frankenstang in fact, I got the Black Hawk Engineering General Jet & Rod Tables pdf, and ran every known rod and jet combo verses each in line six engine family, and worked out the Jet Area minus rod area times 100,000 from the charts on.

http://www.blackhawkengr.com/General%20 ... Tables.pdf


Back in 2015, I had most of the info, but the AMC stuff was the key, because it showed me how a 300 carb behaved with less capacity since all the Ford data is missing from IMCO/Thermactor, right up to OBD1.

I calculated the 98 thou jet verses the stock 75-2079 lean metering rod which would have actually been an early 300 with 107 thou jet, so the 7115S carb you have was set up for what became a 120 hp net engine.

Your peak air fuel ratio at wide open throttle is wound back 24% , and at cruise, 29.5%, since your exhaust headered, 5 speed 200 engine is 50% smaller, and, probably, an honest 93 hp at the flywheel.

I got a comparitive jet/metering rod from 199 and 232 AMC's, and your 75-2079 metering rod with 98 jet is leaner, but they also showed the same sensitivity to 4cfm uniform flow PCV valves, and required a pealed back 1.5 cfm wide open throttle PCV rating. Block off the PCV, idle always improves. 75-2147, 101 and 75-1990, 101 jet, they work well. Those engines have a very lean cruise, a very rich idle, and a not very rich wide open throttle.

The rules are, if you can prove rich or lean by WOT plug readings, and idle by color tune, and mid range by loaded uphill 2nd gear 30-50 mph acceleration, you can then tailer the fuel curve.


So at the very most, you might want to look at either a 101 main jet later on if your mixtures with the PCV really are lean. Which I very much doubt.


Mike has a 75-1986, which, with your stock 98, richens the idle, and leans off the cruise, and keeps Wide Open throttle just the performance side of stoich.

yf_carter_75_1986_001.jpg


I'm banking that it would be ideal.


But your baseline is having 100% ignition, a reliable air fuel determination, and then, having just a few tricks to trimming air fuel. Like a couple of lights on the 1/4 mile Christmass tree, optimisation is the key.

I just found your carb. http://www.ebay.com/itm/281348982040?it ... rmvSB=true

yf_carter_7115s_003.jpg

yf_carter_7115s_002.jpg

yf_carter_7115s_001.jpg



300, right down the line.


Be cool. I'm away for a while. I wouldn't drill the top for acess to the screw, even though we know its got 10 revoltions, and a thread pitch, and you could make it an "Adjusta-Jet". I'd focus instead on air fuel calculation at four static points, WOT, cruise, and idle, and making sure transition at 30 to 50 mph in 2nd is good.



You can do a huge amount will just a narrow band O2 sensor if you have shut off wide open throttle plug readings.


The true magic is that this is what Americans do better than anyone...make things work.

Just been reading about the old Carter ACF company base in St Loius.


https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2015/08/2 ... nt-page-1/

You know, the 1953 YF carb, and the 1946 YS Jeep carb that gave it birth, lasted untill 1990 in some Jeep models. Its nothing to have an engine that lasts 37 years, but a carb, well, thats special.

I like the engineering and simplicity. I don't think this little jug is going to bite you, its a special little device.
 
Asas_YFA_aircleaner.jpg




Well, its better than a lawn mower air cleaner...and if it fits

4banger_zps823ae649.jpg



:unsure: All Fox and Ranger YFA 2.3 liter air cleaners weren't offset...tell me what's it from?

AMC Jeep CJ5 CJ7 CJ8 258 6 Cyl Air Cleaner Housing?

0900c1528004ace6.gif


6389630011_large.jpg


Trevors_Mustang_Pictures_004.jpg



The relay? As long as its gets 7 volts, and has a great engine earth, it'll work.
 
The truck it was on was an '86 F100 with a YFA on it. Saw an '80 as well with a YFA, but it had the weird offset aircleaner that hangs down to the side? I didn't want that one.

I'm not sure that's a relay (at least as I understand them.) Only has the copper connector and a wired connector on the other side.
 
Asa":s1cgwcyu said:
The truck it was on was an '86 F100 with a YFA on it. Saw an '80 as well with a YFA, but it had the weird offset aircleaner that hangs down to the side? I didn't want that one.

I'm not sure that's a relay (at least as I understand them.) Only has the copper connector and a wired connector on the other side.

4296641636_f8b705e220.jpg

Slightly Offset is above

Really offset and gone west....

below...the Gomer Pyle hat!

Supprise, supprise, supprise!

Just to one side!

148fe5010e34c973b96f56db3d06e835.jpg



Don't get me sayin' Shazam...


CoupeBoy's dads low mount C code 4.1 engine...ex Granada/ Monarch, i'm guessing.
75_250_120Small-1.jpg


Later 4.9 Truck alternate air cleaner...same body since the Early F100's
1985F150300BigSixCarterYFFuelSystemandAirCleaner.jpg



good xecute....thumb nails!

the old 73-74 E100 E200 E300 NOS FORD D3UF_9600_A!


 
Gomer's a Goober
(specially singin opera).
Prez Jimmy Catah wuz too…

(Fillin da blank:
a goober is a ______ .)

I got ur phone too Dom.
Congrats on 10 yrs, U deserve it.
 
1986F150six":2gks1il5 said:
Not for our era trucks, but an example, none the less:

1956 64 Ford Truck 6 Cylinder Oil Bath Air Cleaner Ford 216 | eBay

CHAD_ON_NATOR_aircleaner.jpg


YUP, IT IS....Ooops, posted on the wrong forum....


Saw ya on woodruf's 1981 air cleaner needs at ford trucks.com
1428584-factory-air-cleaner-swap-for-factory-air-cleaner-swap

Ya'll need an oil bath filter like my 58 Vauxhall/ Envoy had...one part Vintage Inlines carb bonnet, the other, cutting edge 1940's tech (the oil bath)


1958%20Vauxhall%20Victor%20F%20Type%20Estate%20Engine%20Bay.JPG
 
Hrm
First time I let it actually get up to operating temp. Means it's the first time the fuel pump got enough time running to fill the bowl.

Means it's the first time I saw that there's an issue with the needle valve.
https://i.imgur.com/Z5DzhL8.jpg

Despite setting the float according to the diagram in the instructions that came with the rebuild kit I think that the float is set way too low, so it's not lifting enough to fill the bowl, or the needle might be binding due to how much travel there is.

Strangely enough, the surging went away once it started leaking out of the lifter passageway. Maybe it wasn't completely full of fuel so it was stumbling?

Edit: yeah, float level seemed to be off. Adjusted that and it went away.
Still have a minor flat spot, but it's not much. Just need to adjust the accelerator pump linkage.
 
First drive, haven't adjusted anything beyond stock setup.
Asa":3t04jvy5 said:
Edit: yeah, float level seemed to be off. Adjusted that and it went away.
Still have a minor flat spot, but it's not much. Just need to adjust the accelerator pump linkage.
This flat spot is weird. I'm not sure if it's actually the surging from earlier (waiting on parts to be delivered) or something else. Intial transition from idle to cruising gives a lot of bucking and stumbling then when you get into it she roars.


Anyone know what the part number is for the vacuum motor on here? Or what Ford actually calls it? Again, original source of this piece would be an '86 F150 with a 300

The gold colored piece in this picture.

V1SCi7J.jpg
 
vacuum motor? actuator?
 
Sadly, Ford
"updated"
the 1979 Vacuum Schematic Part Name List , and didn't include some other physical parts on the list

http://myzephyrs.com/vac_part_name.htm

but internally, but not externally, so there are additional names for the later pre Injection Fords between 1981 and 1989.

The devices are named and concatenated to the 1979 list as other parts.

Air Cleaner Temperature Sensor #9E607

Temperature Vacuum Switch #9A995

Cold Weather Modulator #9E862

Air Cleaner Snorkel eg C8OF-9D626-A, or #9D626

Motor Assembley eg CX519 E1SZ-9D612-A or #9D612


The details of the extra #NumberLetterThreeDidgetNumber are on the schematic

"https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=144583&stc=1&d=1461200895"

attachment.php


in the post supplied above ( #12 by xctasy » Wed Jun 21, 2017 )

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1428 ... -swap.html
 
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