Upgrade to 3g alternator and dual electric fans

Eric m

Active member
I have a 66 mustang and added ac. Running the six blade derale fan with a custom shroud. Not cool enough creeps up at idle everything is new. What kit for the alternator conversion and which dual electric fans fit this small radiator and inline six? What and where to buy?
 
I have heard that the dual fan systems from a Ford Contour can be used for cooling. Was going to investigate this setup for my Bronco. JackFish had a post on here about his 3g conversion.
 
Go with the 90 amp version and size the pulley to a 2 to 1 ratio with the crank pulley. The 120 amp 3G alternator, both really, produce alot of charging at really low rpms, near idle. Unless you are running 2v pulley's with matched belts or a serpentine setup it will squeal when charging at start up or when needed and you'll screw up the alternators bearings trying to stop it by re-tightening the belt all the time and changing belts every month or 3. The 90 amp model is more than adequate, has all the low rpm charging of the 120 but will run good on a single belt at a 2:1 ratio, which is where you need to run it. Ask me how I know :oops: ;)
 
The big problem is that no one decides to use the serpentine belt drive that comes stock with every Taurus or 4.9 EFi Effie truck.

Mike had a conversion nutted out, but its gone from the Classic Inlines website, beause the supplier did the dirty on Mike W and Broncitis

Old links were "http://www.classicinlines.com/images/alumahead/install2a.jpg"

and

"http://www.classicinlines.com/images/alumahead/install2b.jpg"




I mapped all mine out on 1/8" steel plate, and then found the right size pulley's

People then start talking about

1. the crank pulley,
2. the water pump,
3. the tensioner,
4. the idler gear.

Then

5. the position of the upper and lower radiator hoses.


On the Ford 5.0 between 1979 and 2001, they changed the acessory positions nine times, but used the serpentine belt, and used the same kind of water pump, but even had it revese roation. You can do any thing you want.

Each five items are shiftable, so is the sixth, the A/C unit, seventh, the power steering pump, 8th, the air pump.

I use the low mount Sanden A/C unit from my XE Falcon



Left the P/S postion and 31 pound per hour , 5.0 spec Air pump as it was, but with the later model V8 P/S pulley, later model Air pump pulley



and then used the 4.9 EFi tensioner

JackFish's conversion was excellent
















The 130 Amp alternator requires the same system Broncitus and Mike1157 used....


http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthr...rchange-Facts-If-you-re-thinking-3G-read-here
"http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread.php?29434-3G-Interchange-Facts-If-you-re-thinking-3G-read-here"

The biggest problem with the 2G alternator is the power connectors (spade type) and harness. They're fire starters. The 1G has an external regulator. They both also have an external cooling fan and exposed fan blades (<100A). @ the plastic "finger" guard.

The 3G has a lug connector for power, and internal fan and regulator.

I think the electrical inards (rectifier, stator, etc.) are also improved in the 3G.


Read all of the following links

For 2.3's

DRBall;1565309 said:
One more piece of info for those 2.3T and N/A guys, it looks like some information is wrong on this swap. If you have a small case 1G (7 inch pivot mount) you must use a small case 3G a least on early 2.3 N/A motors or even a pre 1979 Mustang. The reason is after reading information on this site I did not measure the alternator for my swap (2.3T into a 2.3 Ford Pinto) and I got the wrong size alternator. It's not a big deal because it's from a pick and pull but it's a good idea to measure twice buy once. Oh the information about the V-6 alternator from a 1995 Mustang V-6 is right on however.It should fit. I'm concerned about some of the harness mod's though, it should be a known fact that cutting the harness is not needed in the first place as the stock connectors on the voltage regulator can be removed from the plastic connector and with a double male end simply connected together and then taped. Or you can just remove the ends and soldier them as one circuit. The tool used is a small standard screw driver or even one from an eyeglass repair kit. Using a jumper wire of any kind is not a real repair in the first place it's great to test circuits but that's it.


For I6's 78 to 83

JackFish

https://fordsix.com/viewtopic.php?t=62869

For Mike1157 in line six serpentine conversion

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread.php?169210-I6-serpentine-belt-conversion

For all other Serpentine belt 5.0's

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthr...rchange-Facts-If-you-re-thinking-3G-read-here

"http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread.php?29434-3G-Interchange-Facts-If-you-re-thinking-3G-read-here"


Clarko's link has the following dead links.
http://rothfam.com/svo/3g/
http://www.oldengine.org/unfaq/3ag/3ag.htm
http://www.bcbroncos.com/3ginstall.pdf


taz471;897363 said:
ok here's what i have attached below the 8.jpg is the wiring that is in the car now for that alternator. the 3g is what im putting in the car now. i need to know how to wire up the 3g to the old wiring
attachment.php

attachment.php
THETHREESTATIONSOFTHE%203G.jpg


CAMD FOX;1429239 said:
This post was exactly what I needed to do the swap on my 85. Thanks a bunch. :tu:

TuxStang;1366331 said:
Done the mode according to the upper diagram.
Works great, even though the amp needle barely moves now, and i have to find a way to clean up the mess on and around the starter relay :roll:
attachment.php

THETHREESTATIONSOFTHE%203G_WIRING.jpg


For serpentine, you go to http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread. ... conversion and have a look
 
The focus needs to be on shifting stuff to the F150 positions, its basically the Explorer 5.0 reshift.

Other F 600 trucks used the same kind of systems, but they used bigger pulleys, so you should consider a full update to later pulleys if you are keeping all the stock systems intact.


I really like 6.1 liter F trucks, the old 2V was a slow but faithfull old beast, and it had beafy 38 lb-fr air pumps, but its just the same stuff regurgitated in a bigger platform. Copy the good points.




Hoses don't have to be rubber, and don't have to stay on the same side they did the day the csr was minted.

Stock later 3.3's all have eight ancillaries (Air Pump, P/S removed on this )




Earlier ones, simliar





















 
http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread. ... 5-0L/page3


ZephyrEFI":6m9v2aaw said:
Okay, guys. Here again is the pic from the post above that those cheap a**holes at photobucket have decided you don't need to see.
yRLHHEZ.jpg

It's of the fan sitting on top of the water pump pulley, clearly showing there's not enough space.

Now, here's the new part. I had thought maybe F/Zs have slightly different engine bays or core supports (the core supports ARE different, but not as different as I thought), so it wouldn't allow a Mark VIII fan to fit in one. Well, guess what I saw at the show this past weekend. A Fairmont with a Mark VIII fan.
fGUTwNw.jpg


Look at all that space! Now, I do notice that he has a thinner radiator, similar to the one I had before (that burst on me). Is it JUST my 3-core radiator that's keeping me from having this? I haven't explored the backwards engine mount theory yet, just wanted to post this new development.

"The Backwards Engine Mount Theory"

On the later Foxes, you can shift the whole engine to fit the F150/Hash 8 single Cooling fan. Depending on how you fit the two side by side engine mounts, and where you've placed your transmission mount, a Ford engine can be up to 2" different in position.

Ford don't lable the F150 and later engine mounts and isolators, although there is a part number listing for left and right in the shop diagrams, once you've got them, you can't tell except by checking the offset. This means any two cars can have different engine setbacks.

Its a feature of the common aftermarket mounts and isolators. The bolt stager left to right means that you can indeed shift the whole engine.

If you've accidently postions the left and right mount wrongly, on Foxes, you use the Contour twin fan, because there is often a space problem.

X shells, the XK 200 Falcon base from the 1960 model year ("automotive-history-fords-falcon-platform-from-falcon-to-versailles-in-18-different-wheelbase-lengthtrack-width-variations" see http://www.curbsideclassic.com/automoti ... ariations/ ) are space compromised on all the early round bodies from 1960 to 1965, then a little easier after the begining of the second unibody Fairlane derived 1966 cars.

Falcon-platform-variants.png


Actually, they missed the longest X shell, the 1973 Ford LTD, 121", but although it looked American, it wasn't American made...so its Na na na Nineteen, Nineteen....

post-137506-0-03088600-1437552518_thumb.jpg


Plenty of us have cooling problems, so we buy Mitshimoto alloy radiators, and front mount fans or do a Nissan radiator and refasten the radiator via some Fox style mounts.

Generally, the Contour fan works best, but you first have to pacakge it, and that's hard on early Falcons, Comets, Fairlanes before 1966.
 
Eric m":3hxy2tyk said:
I have a 66 mustang and added ac. Running the six blade derale fan with a custom shroud. Not cool enough creeps up at idle everything is new. What kit for the alternator conversion and which dual electric fans fit this small radiator and inline six? What and where to buy?

1. For an alternator. No need for a 3G. You can go Powermaster or Tuffstuff 1-wire. More expensive but an easier conversion. If you want 3G There are many options:

http://www.paperformance.com/alternator ... 5-mustang/

http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vinta ... quest.html

http://www.cjponyparts.com/pa-performan ... 5/p/ALTCK/

http://www.mustangandfords.com/parts/mu ... r-upgrade/


2. There are no electric fans that will fit in a 66 Mustang that will give you enough cooling. We just do not have the space between the radiator and fan. The way they mount with the fan motor giving the biggest problem. I have tried, measured, tried again. The only solution is the Sidewinder Fan by Mattson's. But $$$
https://the-fan-man.com/product-category/sidewinder/

Someone please correct me if I am wrong and knows of a electric fan that will fit the 65/66 Mustang.

One better question. Why is your temp creeping up with the A/C on? What radiator do you have? What water pump?
Has your block and been flushed? Is your engine bored over. What lbs. radiator cap?

Where do you live? I live in San Francisco. But, take trips to Nevada with 90-110 degree outside temps.
I have a Northern Aluminum radiator. A Fairmont aluminum water pump (The plate is made different). A custom fan pulley (http://www.v8alfa.com/images-sounds/pulley.pdf), stock 200 A/C fan and a moddified V8 shroud. Bore .30 over and no problems. I run straight water with Kool It by Lubegard. "30 Below" also always gave me good results. I am also using a 16lb cap.

FlowKooler also makes a nice waterpump. https://www.flowkoolerwaterpumps.com/st ... index.html
 
Thanks that is the kind of info I am looking for. Fresh rebuilt motor new three row copper radiator. New pump new everything. Six blade steel fan. I already have a 130 amp 3g alt on the way. Hope it mounts up. Heat just goes up to 200 if I idle in gear in 95 degree heat for a while. That needs to stop. On highway it is fine.
 
Timing can also lead to high temps. I am guessing this is a stock 200?

How close is the fan to the radiator? Are the blades of the fan about halfway in/out of the shroud? The cooper 3-row radiator should be good. But, I had better results when I swapped in the Northern Aluminum. What cap are you using? Is it a stock 13lbs. cap? If the system is new. Than it should be ok to use a 16 lbs. cap which would raise the boiling point.
 
Fan is about 1/2" from radiator and halfway in the shroud. All new hoses don't know cap rating. I have a flex fan coming in a day or so to try and pull more air at idle. It is just a $45 experiment. Fan sizes are 15" can't fit larger due to auto trans lines at radiator. It doesn't boil over but at 200+ my carb and fuel delivery starts to get crappy.
 
Radiator for Round bodys and early Stangs?

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=74460&p=573343#p573343
Radiator. 64 200 ranchero found an old Nissan Maxima radiator for his early Falcon 200.

NissanG20radiator4of4.jpg

NissanG20radiator3of4.jpg



Same as my AWD Stagea's

IMG_8761.jpg



xctasy":34qx1gxw said:
The big problem is that no one decides to use the serpentine belt drive that comes stock with every Taurus or 4.9 EFi Effie truck.

Mike had a conversion nutted out, but its gone from the Classic Inlines website, beause the supplier did the dirty on Mike W and Broncitis

Old links were "http://www.classicinlines.com/images/alumahead/install2a.jpg"

install2b-jpg.124807


and

"http://www.classicinlines.com/images/alumahead/install2b.jpg"
install2a-jpg.124808


Basically, the same way Mike1157 did it

That alternator is a Power master 140 Amp one-wire GM ford hybrid, with a Sanden AC unit

the Sanden is well guseted and stayed

temporary_zps45644f3f-jpg.112797


p6281002_zps4075bf21-jpg.114370


p6281001_zpsdbd54dce-jpg.114371


temporary_zps7d137fc0-jpg.114050


pikesan had also about the same time, discussed other low mount Sanden options with his stand offs and the 316R comercial brackets.



low mount sanden_and_alt 200 non Fox x shell pikesan 316R



sanden low mount alt high munt 200 x shell ac-alt-setup



good fans?

Offset twin 8" and one 16"

temporary_zps4e313e22-jpg.113928


Again, care of Mike1157

That set up might suck some amps, small furry animals and pull out enough volts to hurt the idel, but it sure lookes good
 
OK I just saw it on here someone was kind enough to post a link to high capacity Flowkooler water pumps. Sold by Summit? Might help you.
 
I've planned to upgrade to newer alternator, maybe not Ford 3G, since they are too expensive here, but maybe some 80-90 amp Bosch or Valeo from some euro car. I'm searching for damper to fit serpentine belt, but it looks like there isn't many options for those. Is it possible to use other damper from different inline 6 with adapter or modification? What is the difference between small and big six dampers?
 
Does anyone know where to source the:
Water pump pulley, damper and idler in this image?

install2b.jpg
 
The supplier did the dirty on Mike W and Broncitus.The water pump pulley was a revised copy of RickWrench's brothers aluminum 4-1/8 long snout water pump design.

Search RickWrench's user profile and posts from the lower bottom right Member profiles. Great guy, his associations and inteligent work practices are an inspiration to us all.

The idler was ex Windsor/Cleveland serpentine belt system.Search on the intetnet for Cleveland Serpentine drive idler.

Its a common part used on those.

The crankshaft pulley was ex Modular 4.6, IIRC.
 
You can use a water pump pulley from a 95 Ranger . One of the 90's Taurus uses a bolt on crank pulley that slips over the two groove damper on the 200. You will need to make a spacer and drill holes to line up with the holes in the damper. I used idler pulleys from 95 V-6 mustang. That will get you close to the configuration of the picture.
gus91326":boztglnp said:
Does anyone know where to source the:
Water pump pulley, damper and idler in this image?

 
"... I used idler pulleys from 95 V-6 mustang...."
where/how did U afix it to the engine frnt, did U use
the whole assmbly, where did U mount the 3 bolts on the base.
U use the plural (ie an "s" - pulleys) were they all the same? where/how mounted?

Thank you for the extra/clarity !
 
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