HELP NEEDED ! Identify my 200ci block ! I need a manual bell housing.

H

hepkat63

New member
Hi all,
need some help! So, I have a 200ci motor from what I believe to be a 1966 Falcon Sprint. Problem is, I need a bell housing for it. I stupidly thought that all narrow block 200 motors are the same, so bought myself a bell housing that was for an australian 144,170 or 200 narrow block motor, but it no way fits ! When I rang the manufacturer, they told me that they'd sold hundreds over the years and the problem was with my motor, not their bell housing. So, is it true that some of the narrow block 200 motors were different castings at the back? Here is a picture of it:
cFEL8xNmSoQESIby7Q8B0m67yf2CmqYKd_gGwNMvF1Ygd2jzbFFq6BgpWHgHrsav0EuhUpmdegXPYavy8DOZVMwLhqyrJTswbdjwPEQlOlJTTER9A1wmmKy80AIccoM4axAUXKQ1fbm9emjObkM3DaJoBJd8WHCrbJynHEXd61f3ogojXUXtckTGljrvi5WZeb1qVCQD_Duwj9TrB70aiKswiMlX1FdZer0kWe-M9EWMSAij07VOXBcbdLHT8VVUQEHMyBb7_Jj6NO7TGhGv4a1MDaApTNDdjfXgYvCAOAkSb4TajJvxQsrvLz4ynG8HW4qiHPLyEUYR3n-RZdHVm5sqB-SYPb-2ehVYt9Yi0sAzujvVGx8VJoHgHtA_4Bbx-Q1JlbGL--RHn7Iu2NUIxw2Lh1QygOQVWZ_GfoBJ2BN4pBIwoCkOU7F1YnIOAsaDkyysT-qYoqg-WMjBrZHtNyrKDIEscffdN-etnARgb2plnrXNqPnsC2u5xN9zWzzialhBhf0SJq3iCH7317lVH-w0ykMv0KN1zW7cj-vlcAOaKAlm4mBkGor9p4aSvMz3KpLA_qVnVQjjiLqSj9GStW20x3Ox1zV3cVpjW6o0D8r4eN9dMltd-Fr0=w1329-h886-no

Here is a picture of the casting numbers:
ksMaJUSglqUUTSTB3N813fvIdu3gdQfHViQEJynSDHdV6gGr3BQJ6uf-Zvj_tzVBuI0LP_R6PzMOZTY8SZMWYqi1gd5HHZWDtczz-BgcEivkkpT-ZCnVrqgPrDlQv8DwvwgupXAHwQTOVfzGKk_AikhT3EwmGK9uivymRCYI5r-yfYR-Eic9wZ9bZk1_gBG_GSf3U4CeedN1HzhAQ3eoV4pKX_BTc2pUPXXoOnrrQc53xDFEBQv5ExWtfRGmekcrDiR4U7zNq1cnc161FOxKAQErcFq2KPv-3ERekLFecf7mMGndB-mtcZDUdmsc1cNpxISJTtgPfJo__C0GWhby8GlX7gr-vL-mQIbta8PMOWjtOnx9s1Hg-5KsbOTYWjpwkfO4o7hidoulUDEimpWlCjBtF8r1a-TMzxyXVRdIe1gZKi465mmYuWIoEcsyUP3IYi3pHQKLwyPboiVt9WaG3L0A_kD_Hurw0xBCYmlPvVWksRkzcZlY29Fg8OzfJ7YjD9ovLW5is7bs7KA_q2vrGszo98K09ly_QGcxBbysCVweCgQ83SMRt5k0g3Pedk6qpH0YErV9Sklvb4lKneOrkxpRSOGEgIEKDDrLANG-1o5L1jso1x-G=w1329-h886-no


Is anyone out there able to correctly identify this block and advise what manual bell housing I'm looking for please?
 
Are you in Europe, Finland?


Link 1 "https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/cFEL8xNmSoQESIby7Q8B0m67yf2CmqYKd_gGwNMvF1Ygd2jzbFFq6BgpWHgHrsav0EuhUpmdegXPYavy8DOZVMwLhqyrJTswbdjwPEQlOlJTTER9A1wmmKy80AIccoM4axAUXKQ1fbm9emjObkM3DaJoBJd8WHCrbJynHEXd61f3ogojXUXtckTGljrvi5WZeb1qVCQD_Duwj9TrB70aiKswiMlX1FdZer0kWe-M9EWMSAij07VOXBcbdLHT8VVUQEHMyBb7_Jj6NO7TGhGv4a1MDaApTNDdjfXgYvCAOAkSb4TajJvxQsrvLz4ynG8HW4qiHPLyEUYR3n-RZdHVm5sqB-SYPb-2ehVYt9Yi0sAzujvVGx8VJoHgHtA_4Bbx-Q1JlbGL--RHn7Iu2NUIxw2Lh1QygOQVWZ_GfoBJ2BN4pBIwoCkOU7F1YnIOAsaDkyysT-qYoqg-WMjBrZHtNyrKDIEscffdN-etnARgb2plnrXNqPnsC2u5xN9zWzzialhBhf0SJq3iCH7317lVH-w0ykMv0KN1zW7cj-vlcAOaKAlm4mBkGor9p4aSvMz3KpLA_qVnVQjjiLqSj9GStW20x3Ox1zV3cVpjW6o0D8r4eN9dMltd-Fr0=w1329-h886-no"

Link 2 "https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ksMaJUSglqUUTSTB3N813fvIdu3gdQfHViQEJynSDHdV6gGr3BQJ6uf-Zvj_tzVBuI0LP_R6PzMOZTY8SZMWYqi1gd5HHZWDtczz-BgcEivkkpT-ZCnVrqgPrDlQv8DwvwgupXAHwQTOVfzGKk_AikhT3EwmGK9uivymRCYI5r-yfYR-Eic9wZ9bZk1_gBG_GSf3U4CeedN1HzhAQ3eoV4pKX_BTc2pUPXXoOnrrQc53xDFEBQv5ExWtfRGmekcrDiR4U7zNq1cnc161FOxKAQErcFq2KPv-3ERekLFecf7mMGndB-mtcZDUdmsc1cNpxISJTtgPfJo__C0GWhby8GlX7gr-vL-mQIbta8PMOWjtOnx9s1Hg-5KsbOTYWjpwkfO4o7hidoulUDEimpWlCjBtF8r1a-TMzxyXVRdIe1gZKi465mmYuWIoEcsyUP3IYi3pHQKLwyPboiVt9WaG3L0A_kD_Hurw0xBCYmlPvVWksRkzcZlY29Fg8OzfJ7YjD9ovLW5is7bs7KA_q2vrGszo98K09ly_QGcxBbysCVweCgQ83SMRt5k0g3Pedk6qpH0YErV9Sklvb4lKneOrkxpRSOGEgIEKDDrLANG-1o5L1jso1x-G=w1329-h886-no"

Neighter work for me.




There are three high mount block castings. The 132 teeth flywheel 2.77 single pattern till 1965, then the dual pattern 136 teeth 3.03 from 1966 to 1983.

When 2 stage or c3/c4 automatic, you used the inner dowls and smaller bolt spacings, the 132 teeth, 2.77 pattern.

The third might be the Argentine/Australian block, designed for a 160 teeth 221 V8 flywheel or flexplate. In Argentina, GM Saginaw gearbox, in Australia, BW 35 or C4/C7/C8/C9 gearboxes, or the Top Loader or Borg Warner Single rail variants. The Aussie stuff has alloy castings in the early years, then became cast iron after 1971 or so.

The adaptor to fit an early narrow block to a later bellhousing is like this below.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=66238&start=50
xctasy":1zs823vt said:
Doug, your already running an Aussie style head, and Aussie sump, an Aussie style twin roller timing chain. The bits that are breaking are the bits the Australians replaced with heavier duty American parts in 1966. It was Bill Bourke, a Canadian, who organised the huge, costly update of Falcon 200 parts because the early ones were so unreliable. Gearboxes were a primary update to the much better 1962 to 1965 SBF 221/260/289 160 teeth ring gear package. It was a clutch issue more than anything...a 9.25 to 10" clutch could be fitted to a manual, great for a 200 driving a heavy 1966 Falcon through bulldust with a leaking rope seal, but the spinoff was the long wheel base Fairlane was going to get a 221 cubic inch six cylinder engine in 1968, and it was heavier still, and the old 221 1962 Fairlane compact was marginal with a 132 teeth bellhousong and 8.5" clutch, so something had to be done. And there was increased use of either the BW or C4 automatic planned, and failure of any of those components was not an option.


I would like you to consider using an Aussie wide block bell housing adaptor, and a 1966 to 1970 160 teeth Aussie 188/200/221 flexplate, and a proper 1980 US market C4 which was used behind 250 engines 215 lb-ft of torque or more. They run with the explosion proof Aussie C9 bellhousing. They were used insted of Borg Warner 35's, because the US C4 is the best automatic, and lots of taxi drivers optioned them up. This way you can run the standard V8 converter with the Pinto internals for a 3500 stall ratio.

Down here, the turbo 4.1 Xlows in the 10 second bracket use those, and they are flawless.



The block adaptor is like this. It's basically the same as an AOD adaptor I patterned long ago, but it was done by Ford Australia, as a factory effort, in the 1965 XP as a transitional thing...so the little US 170/200 blocks could take the V8 style transmissions, and therefor cope with V8 style grunt. In my opinion, good C4 technology laggs behind on the small 200 because your putting a whole lot more force through a 132 teeth converter than Ford US ever intended. They shifted to the SBF pattern on the 250 because it allowed the gruntier bigger I6 to take a stronger transmission. The Australians used this as a transition using 1965 289 ring gear with the little 2.75" six bolt crank pattern of the 144/170/200.







Click to expand...

The crank uses a pilot adapter from the 1970 to1973 Borq Warner 35 automatic gearboxes used in the Taunus/Cortina/Capri 1300/1600 and 2000 cc Pinto/Cologne OHC engines before the C3 came out.

BW354cylandAODAussieI6adaptor.jpg
 
hepkat63":skj9uosf said:
Hi all,
need some help! So, I have a 200ci motor from what I believe to be a 1966 Falcon Sprint. Problem is, I need a bell housing for it. I stupidly thought that all narrow block 200 motors are the same, so bought myself a bell housing that was for an australian 144,170 or 200 narrow block motor, but it no way fits ! When I rang the manufacturer, they told me that they'd sold hundreds over the years and the problem was with my motor, not their bell housing. So, is it true that some of the narrow block 200 motors were different castings at the back? Here is a picture of it:
cFEL8xNmSoQESIby7Q8B0m67yf2CmqYKd_gGwNMvF1Ygd2jzbFFq6BgpWHgHrsav0EuhUpmdegXPYavy8DOZVMwLhqyrJTswbdjwPEQlOlJTTER9A1wmmKy80AIccoM4axAUXKQ1fbm9emjObkM3DaJoBJd8WHCrbJynHEXd61f3ogojXUXtckTGljrvi5WZeb1qVCQD_Duwj9TrB70aiKswiMlX1FdZer0kWe-M9EWMSAij07VOXBcbdLHT8VVUQEHMyBb7_Jj6NO7TGhGv4a1MDaApTNDdjfXgYvCAOAkSb4TajJvxQsrvLz4ynG8HW4qiHPLyEUYR3n-RZdHVm5sqB-SYPb-2ehVYt9Yi0sAzujvVGx8VJoHgHtA_4Bbx-Q1JlbGL--RHn7Iu2NUIxw2Lh1QygOQVWZ_GfoBJ2BN4pBIwoCkOU7F1YnIOAsaDkyysT-qYoqg-WMjBrZHtNyrKDIEscffdN-etnARgb2plnrXNqPnsC2u5xN9zWzzialhBhf0SJq3iCH7317lVH-w0ykMv0KN1zW7cj-vlcAOaKAlm4mBkGor9p4aSvMz3KpLA_qVnVQjjiLqSj9GStW20x3Ox1zV3cVpjW6o0D8r4eN9dMltd-Fr0=w1329-h886-no

Here is a picture of the casting numbers:
ksMaJUSglqUUTSTB3N813fvIdu3gdQfHViQEJynSDHdV6gGr3BQJ6uf-Zvj_tzVBuI0LP_R6PzMOZTY8SZMWYqi1gd5HHZWDtczz-BgcEivkkpT-ZCnVrqgPrDlQv8DwvwgupXAHwQTOVfzGKk_AikhT3EwmGK9uivymRCYI5r-yfYR-Eic9wZ9bZk1_gBG_GSf3U4CeedN1HzhAQ3eoV4pKX_BTc2pUPXXoOnrrQc53xDFEBQv5ExWtfRGmekcrDiR4U7zNq1cnc161FOxKAQErcFq2KPv-3ERekLFecf7mMGndB-mtcZDUdmsc1cNpxISJTtgPfJo__C0GWhby8GlX7gr-vL-mQIbta8PMOWjtOnx9s1Hg-5KsbOTYWjpwkfO4o7hidoulUDEimpWlCjBtF8r1a-TMzxyXVRdIe1gZKi465mmYuWIoEcsyUP3IYi3pHQKLwyPboiVt9WaG3L0A_kD_Hurw0xBCYmlPvVWksRkzcZlY29Fg8OzfJ7YjD9ovLW5is7bs7KA_q2vrGszo98K09ly_QGcxBbysCVweCgQ83SMRt5k0g3Pedk6qpH0YErV9Sklvb4lKneOrkxpRSOGEgIEKDDrLANG-1o5L1jso1x-G=w1329-h886-no


Is anyone out there able to correctly identify this block and advise what manual bell housing I'm looking for please?
Click to expand...

no pic came thru for me...
 
sorry guys, looks like some can't see the pictures. I have attached them here.
So, I am needing a MANUAL gearbox/bell housing for this block if someone can identify it please?
Yes, I am in Australia, but I believe that this is a US motor out of a USA 1966 Falcon Sprint.

IMG_20170723_1407207.jpgIMG_20170723_0813360.jpg
 
yes, it looks like that 1 (final pic) came thru & it seems the blockplate/adapter (in pic above) would be the item...
 
chad":1wjafkwh said:
yes, it looks like that 1 (final pic) came thru & it seems the blockplate/adapter (in pic above) would be the item...
Click to expand...
thanks Chad - so would you know what bell housing and / or manual gearbox I need please?
 
no, but 'X' has a treatise in his last post - last 1/2, above!
 
That is the US 1966 up duel bolt pat. Block, so you have many years of the US type early and late models bell housings as options for a manual trans bell. The best one to use in my opion though is the big bell along with the bigger flywheel and 9 inch clutch. In the below link you will find the info you need to ID the right bell. Good luck :nod:

200 Six Bell Housing T5 Swap info
viewtopic.php?f=96&t=50854&p=388301&hilit=200+bell+housing+casting+numbers#p388301
 
Both automatic and manual transmission cars had this big bellhousing adaptor.

Somewhere a while ago (2009) addo posted the US dual pattern 132t 2.77/136t 3.03 vs Aussie 160 t bell housing differences.

hepkat63, I was confused... if you really had an Australian 160 t manual gearbox bellhousing, then you need to make an adaptor to fit it.


All European Fairmonts were automatic, and generally V8, so how the heck would someone have given you a manual Australian bellhousing unless you were in Australia, Papua New Ginea, New Zealand or somewhere down here in the South Pacific.


I've slobberd a bib full of info here...all I want to do is help you. Auto and manual Aussie bellhousings are just bigger, and don't bolt on to US 2.77/3.03 block patterns because the Australians wanted V8 style clutches and torque converters....the out back heat and the prospect of a little ultility Falcon being overloaded and driven ment little Fordomatics and C4's with 9.5" torque converters or 8.5 or 9 to 9.125" clutches weren't gonna be strong enough. The bigger Aussie bellhousing started with a 9.25" clutch and the V8 C4 or Volvo BW 35 auto torque converter.


In the USA, if you wanted a stronger in line six, you got the 240 or 300, or a V8. It wasn't untill the last 3 years of the small I6 that Ford USA even considerd upgrading the gearboxes on the low mount, 164 t beelhousing to V8 strength.

So there are

US high mount 132t 2.77 ( auto and manual)
US high mount 136t 3.03 ( manual, but dual pattern)
Aussie high mount 160 t
And (at the same time during the 1980, 1981, 1982 and 1983 model year, whie dual pattern 136 t 3.03 were still being made)
US low mount 164 t bellhousings (auto only, and only for the 1981/1982/1983 model year, although they were made in 1980 as well)
 
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=42786&p=315831&hilit=2.77+bell#p315831
addo":29u3tvqa said:
Thanks to Stubby, I can get the "secret" ( :roll: ) project underway!

Here's an interesting comparison of block plates:



You can see the Australian one allows a slightly larger flywheel and clutch. Other than that, the designs are on different pages, so to speak.

Would it be possible to make an adaptor plate? One hole is pretty close; that might be better relocated on the bell but others are different enough that a 3/8" ground steel plate should work...

Cheers, Adam.
Click to expand...

No longer around...although I do have a copy....somewhere...
ci/XFswap.html
th


mustangsix":29u3tvqa said:
Left, US200 rear tranny flange, right Oz flange
Click to expand...
 
thanks guys for all the info - most appreciated. I have managed to contact the guy that I bought the motor from originally and would you believe it - he still had the bell housing ! He had sold the gear box years ago, but kept the bell housing. He told me he was going to get the gear box done up , but changed his mind. It was a four speed Dagenham gearbox that was originally behind this motor and the bell housing (obviously ) is for that.
So, i very quickly bought that from him. I am now (once I get it and confirm it does actually fit !!) going to send that bell housing to Dellow here in Australia to see if they can modify it to fit the five speed W50 toyota celica steel case gear box I have already to go in. If they can't I guess I'll just buy a dagenham box and use that. fun times !!
 
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