HP Crisis

62Cometman":1f979jtt said:
I actually have every single hot rod magazine from the sixties that did an article on falcon, comet or ford six motors. If anyone wants me to scan these articles and upload them either here or somewhere that the information can be shared i'd gladly do so. Ak miller was a god among men when it came to the ford six, too bad paxton didnt put their six blower set up into production it would have been everything everyone was looking for plus some. I did have this tickle of a thought about keeping things oldschool and cool and wondered how much effort would be required to find and install a centrifugal supercharger off a stude avanti? I think that would be a wild look and a kinda 60s style all of its own.

I went to Ak's shop a few times after work (at the old Ford assembly plant in Pico Revera) that was a great experience! I would like to see some of those old articles again there are a number of them I remember reading back in the day but haven't been able to find them all again.

:beer: Yes a Paxton installed on a six would be a good looking combo, that shouldn't be all that hard to do an install! (y)

If I can get a hold of another 250 engine to build I am thinking of going with a Roots style blower (Eaton) for it. Good luck on your build. :nod:
 
None of the old Superchargers are reliable, but they are certainly rebuildable, and they impress the heck out of everyone. Mustangaroo had the normal problems everyone has with SN89's. SN59's and 60's also have there share of problems

Paxtondriversside.jpg


Small Paxtons (and the modern Innovi replacements) don't make Rootes or Twin Screw or B&M/Weiand positive displacement blower torque off idle, one the of the key "kicks", they are centrifugal superchargers, and boost progressively and require better breathing and cam. They are always a disapointment unless the engine starts big and is boosted hard with a wild cam. The drive systems are complicated, often fail to make the goods on a dyno because of belt slip. 5.0's and 5.8's of all types, Windsor, Cleveland, Mod DOHC, all respond fine to them; they have preloaded belt drives for them that REALLY work, but I6's, nothing exists.

A close to perfect king hit is baldricks M90 Eaton drive kit, where he just dropped the water pump mike1157 style, and then use a stock Serp belt. That works really well. Actually, Mike made his serpentine drive after a little bit of scientific investigation here and on other places on the 'net.

Its your car, you'll do whateva "floats yer boat".

You don't want a slipping belt, an old unreconditioned Paxton blower, and the lack off off idle boost that happen with old, less efficent systems, then you'll have to contact some of the service guys. They can work, but let me tell you a secrete. Dispite the 312 2 seater Thunderbird and 57 Fairlane and Mercury Y block Supercharged option being factory, along with the 289 Studebaker Hawk and Avanti R2's, the Shelby Mustangs 289 and 427 Blower options, it was Benson Ford who made the system work. It did so, but was not able to make the 50000 mile durablity targets and that's what killed the system.

Saleen tried hard to certify the SN89 for US Emmissions and Ford's durablity targets, but it was a failure, and they had to use EFI to make any success of it. Then Paxton did a total over haul of the engineering to beat the durality targets, and thats the Innovi.

Here is a fairly common 1985 carb blower for a 4BBL 5.0GT Mustang,
http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread. ... Mustang-GT























a very simple kit that worked, but wasn't 100% reliable with respect to the belt drive and durablity. RaceCraft made one of them ,thrashed the crud outa it, and then it took 9 years and EFI to certify it. After that, they re-engineered it totally.

I wish you luck with the system. It misses the simplicity and reliablity of something like this

ford-250-2v-supercharger-kit.jpg
 
just saw 1 of those superchargers yesterday - on the 'throw out pile'
(behind the garage is a metal plie 4 things goin to the scrap man - cash 4 weight). It has
a plate missing offa 1 of the 'long' sides (top? bottom?). Is it worth anything
to pull off the pile & ship some 1?
 
chad":1iyuy4tp said:
just saw 1 of those superchargers yesterday - on the 'throw out pile'
(behind the garage is a metal plie 4 things goin to the scrap man - cash 4 weight). It has
a plate missing offa 1 of the 'long' sides (top? bottom?). Is it worth anything
to pull off the pile & ship some 1?


Yup, ship it to 62Cometman!

There are excellent original rebuilders for the SN series

Add it to something like this...





or this






Used extensively in Hydroplane boats










Job Done....
 
62Cometman":1a2q8or8 said:
I actually have every single hot rod magazine from the sixties that did an article on falcon, comet or ford six motors. If anyone wants me to scan these articles and upload them either here or somewhere that the information can be shared i'd gladly do so. Ak miller was a god among men when it came to the ford six, too bad paxton didnt put their six blower set up into production it would have been everything everyone was looking for plus some. I did have this tickle of a thought about keeping things oldschool and cool and wondered how much effort would be required to find and install a centrifugal supercharger off a stude avanti? I think that would be a wild look and a kinda 60s style all of its own.

Not sure if there would be a copyright issue but all those articles would be a nice feature on here.
 
xctasy":1lnv0fp2 said:
Yup, ship it to 62Cometman!Job Done....
I am most impressed by what is shown in the last 6 pic.
The inventiveness and construction!

I grew up on the Chesapake Bay (1952 - '80) and saw some teake, mahogony and brass outfitted "skiffs" with motors
like those in the area. I wonder if there is a connection. The engine pictured is the 200?
 
chad":3vgjkgl2 said:
I grew up on the Chesapake Bay (1952 - '80) and saw some teake, mahogony and brass outfitted "skiffs" with motors
like those in the area. I wonder if there is a connection. The engine pictured is the 200?

Nope as per Hot Rodding the 144 Ford 6, "Making the Falcon Fly", May 1960, and the Comete engine May 1961.

its a 1-8" overbored 156, just like the Fuel injected Pumpkin Seed engine.



And as it is today



If I'm not mistaken, the Pumpkin Seed Engine is the injected engine on the cover. Stroppe wanted the Vern Hule built injected six-cylinder engine back, so Bill Burke turned to another famous engine builder, Mickey Thompson, to build a pair of Pontiac Tempest GMC 471 Supercharged 120 and 185 cube slant four engines for the streamliner’s return to Bonneville in 1961. It got to 232 mph in 1962, its last year before resurection.

Here it is inside



All those Racing Skiffs got various class engines if they were racers.
135 World class was revamped when Terry Morgan won the World 135 cubic inch class in a Twin Cam six carb headed Holden Six. Up till then (1953?), it had been the 135/60 Ford V8's domain.



The next step up was the 155 cubic inch class, which became a Ford Falcon benefit match.

144 Six Amal carb or one carb per cylinder engines, bored out like in the first Injected HRM engine. The stanadard early engines were 135/60 Flat head v8's, then the Falcon six.


viewtopic.php?f=13&t=6557&p=115852#p115852
xctasy":3vgjkgl2 said:
I'm reviewing my old links for a book I'm writing...._
















I guess Page 98 ( http://img73.photobucket.com/albums/v22 ... tsix05.jpg ) does it for me.

If a non supercharged triple carb 158 cubic inch six port headed Holden or Ford Zephyr Zodiac with a Raymond Mays alloy head engine can each make make 168 hp in 1960, then adding a turbo to any 170 Ford six should be a easy way of making fuss free power.
 
xctasy":3v3apdqy said:
chad":3v3apdqy said:
just saw 1 of those superchargers yesterday - on the 'throw out pile'
(behind the garage is a metal plie 4 things goin to the scrap man - cash 4 weight). It has
a plate missing offa 1 of the 'long' sides (top? bottom?). Is it worth anything
to pull off the pile & ship some 1?


Yup, ship it to 62Cometman!

There are excellent original rebuilders for the SN series....

As recomended by duskpearl in this post viewtopic.php?f=22&t=57233&p=498373#p498373

http://paradisewheels.biz/power/superchargers/


Contact Craig Conley
Paradise Wheels Inc
1413 Linda Vista Dr Suite D
San Marcos, Ca 92078
760-744-2400 (Mon-Fri, 9am-5pm PST)

Paradise-Wheels-Mustang-Supercharger-Rebuild-720x720.jpg


The old "huffers" are supported, and the brackets and details Craig is well aware of. Mustangaroo is no longer around here, but you can contact him I guess...he logs on to check once in a while.

I personally think these solutions from 1960 are the right ones...time has moved on, but you really cannot beat the basic Hot Rodding nauce from the early years. Linking some thing like these SN89's with a Vintage In lines head with the right kind of fuel delivery, well, you'll get a sensational result.

In terms of dollars per horsepower, its a cost, but these I6's just bend the minds on people at car shows. If you want kudos and a smile you cannot remove even when confronted with Bad Le Roy Brown and a crow bar, then look no further than your own soil.

Adding it up...200 Cube six, good Offy or VI head, and a form of appropraite boost according to your creed, and your into the 300 rwhp level.

For minimum dollars per maximum horsepower, an Aluminum head and cam with a basic rebuilt 200, or a Turbo with good breathing triple carb head would give you a lot of smiles.

We all have budgets....the old timers had Solutions.

I've seen a lot of naturally aspirated Australian Ford sixes, but the end of the Falcon program in 2016 died with a radical turbo engine.

Ak Millers last cars where turbo charged.

viewtopic.php?t=74249
curts56":3v3apdqy said:
guhfluh":3v3apdqy said:
curts56":3v3apdqy said:
I'm in the process of putting together a turboed 300 for my 56 F100 and thought I'd post a few photos of my 1979 Ak Miller turbo kit:

http://www.ckdesign-inc.com/images/Turbo/300-1.JPG
http://www.ckdesign-inc.com/images/Turbo/300-2.JPG
http://www.ckdesign-inc.com/images/Turbo/300-3.JPG
http://www.ckdesign-inc.com/images/Turbo/akmiller.jpg

I plan on adding a wastegate to replace the original IMPCO inline boost controller. The kit didn't come with any brackets to support the intake plenum so I modified the alternator/smog pump bracket to provide support. So far so good. Now all I need is to fill the block with parts. I'm sure I'll have plenty of questions for this forum.
It looks like you use a HD exhaust manifold, is it? Or a stock one?

With the turbo placement, do you think a normal 70's model motor mount would have clearance issues?

It's a HD manifold that has been cut at the base and a turbo flange welded on. Here's an article that uses the stock manifold:

http://www.ckdesign-inc.com/images/Turbo/Six Appeal.pdf


Jay Storers article was decribed in this 1975 HR blurb, and again in the 1985 Propane Performance book.



Ak was famous for his Oldsmobiles,but he wasn’t a make specific kinda guy. If it fit and ran, it would go in his car...I'll leave it to ol' Ack!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ztujox8fly0
 
Would a 71 Maverick be a good choice for a Barra 240T with the auto trans? The motor and trans is available for $4500 plus getting thru USA Customs.

Rick
 
pic shows that as a huge engine (C the bent8 nxt to it?).
'60s, '70s Fords have low hoods...
custom motor mounts R parta da formula I'd suppose when dropping 4.5 ($).
 
62Cometman, you are concerned by many things, but only One thing is important.


62Cometman":185weh4o said:
As always X i appreciate your honesty and info, though i don't fully agree with you its nice to see a varying perspective, if i knew anyone in the area that would take on the project of chopping off the log intake and welding a plate on in its place i would jump on the opportunity and i feel most of my issue would become second thought, such isn't the case here in my little slice of the country.


See viewtopic.php?f=1&t=76829&p=592164#p592164


In that, I've suggested YFA Carter carbs, a turbo, and a long under pipe Coupeboy style.


FalconSedanDelivery just took a reed of all the old Ak Miller atricles, and used the same kind of Ak Miller 270 intake and 290 degree exhaust cam, the right radically planed down 120 thou 170 large log head, the right Offy intake, and the right mixture of Holley 1908 and Autolite 1101 carbs, put it all on a 120 thou decked 250 engine, and got what I estimate to be 220 flywheel hp out of it.

The Nott 1961 Falcon makes 280 flywheel hp with triple DCOE 45's.


Just use an Offy intake, and some nice ICT Webers or whatever 1-bbl carbs, and add a T3 60 series turbo to it, . Renault made some Solex carbs for turbo R5's, R18'S, Feguo's and they are around and bolt on to the old Offy intake.



Phone Matt Cox.


Order up a triple Offy.

Phone Bill the Distributor man, and get a Duraspark II hooked up to a Yelloow Strain Relief DSII box, and you can control your peak advance with factory parts, better than an aftermarket MSD 6A.

Then buy a TO3 60 turbo, and order a nice big duration cam from whomsover to fit your 170.

If you really want to, buy a minimum of 90 x 109 x 630 mm or 3.5 by 4-1/4 by 25 inch intercooler and mount it ahead of the radiator.


Boost it with a pipe under the engine from the stock iron header, and mount the turbo where the oil pressure sender is, like the old 2.3 Carb turbo Mustangs from 1979-1980. The fule pump to use is the aftermarket Summit Strip Dominator Chevy fuel, pump, and it will allow you to go up to about 12 psi if its boost referenced.

On a turbo engine(1, stock compression ratio, stock iron exhaust header), the triple carbs (2) , 270/290 cam (3) will take your best stock 45 to 47 rwhp 170 engine up to 270 flywheel hp and about 295 lb-ft of torque. Rev ranges of where that horspower and torque comes in is set by the port size, and if you use the head you have, the six 1.125" ports will pring peak power to about 4800 rpm, and peak torque at about 3200 rpm.


If you had that cam (3) , those carbs ( 2) and a set of good headers and a 9.3:1 compression ratio, you could expect 150 flywheel hp or 120 rwhp.


Adding just the cam, carbs, and an exhaust will add 75 hp to the rear wheels of a 170.

Turbo's don't need a really good exhaust header, Ak Miller used some of the most low rent turbo headers known to mankind, but really, any 2" pipe from any iron exhaust will provide a way to make the turbo spin. IMHO The best iron header for Fords is the old later model 4-1/4" Foot ball cat header from 1980 onwards 250's and 200's.


Coupe Boy even has a proper V8 transmission adaptor if you think you might beat up that old gearbox.


I've given you some info on the strength of the 7-1/4" axle, they'll cope with 240 rwhp and 300 flywheel horspower 289's in 3000 pound 67 Ford Falcons.




Anyway



Be done with all this measuring of proof

An Eye for an Eye and a tooth for a tooth


and any way way, I told the truth....
 
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