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61 falcon "rusty bob"

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johnws6
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61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #1 by johnws6 » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:22 pm

Hey all, I haven't joined a new forum in a long time but recently I got a falcon that's in desperate need of tlc. it hasn't drove since 1972. The engine was locked up too far when I got it and none of the wheels turned. We got the wheels freed up and towed it down the road popping the clutch in 3rd gear but the engine didn't budge. So I bought a 200 engine from a 66 mustang that was supposed to be healthy
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old engine out getting ready for the 200
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for some reason they painted the valve cover chevy orange
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cleaned and fixed the valve cover
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had a spare set of junk wheels that we thought might fit since the original wheels were rusted through, they didn't fit but then we found another set that were much better
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found milky oil in the pan cleaned and painted
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replaced the head gasket and painted the head
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replaced water pump and hoping that with a few more new parts it will crank
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Got a 4.6 engine this weekend to put in something, also 65 Mustang project
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About me personally I'm a uti grad that's built cars personally and professionally for years, custom fab work, cnc and manual machining, and welding.
These are some of my other cars
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v8 s10
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96 corvette
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And some things I've helped with as a builder
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finally the cars I wish I had back
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Re: 61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #2 by bubba22349 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:05 pm

:beer: the old 1961 Falcon cleaned up real decent! In answer to your question as to why somebody might of painted the Falcon's valve cover Orange, all Ford engines were painted differently before 1966. As an example a 170 cu. in. engine would of have been factory assembled with a valve cover and air cleaner that was painted Red Orange. The oil pan, block, and head and parts were painted gloss Black accessories like Generator and Starter were painted semi gloss black. For more info see a resent post on engine colors here viewtopic.php?f=1&t=77044 Wow that's a nice collection cars you have too. Good luck on your Falcon build. :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

johnws6
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Re: 61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #3 by johnws6 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:42 pm

Thanks for the info, maybe that's what they were doing? I'm not sure, it looked Chevy orange to me, but I might repaint it to look like the 170

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Re: 61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #4 by chad » Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:43 am

welcome to the i6 world!
that 170 was "a lill tqer",
the 200 will B a lill more race like.

how far will U go with the falcon? what direction?
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: 61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #5 by johnws6 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:12 pm

chad wrote:welcome to the i6 world!
that 170 was "a lill tqer",
the 200 will B a lill more race like.

how far will U go with the falcon? what direction?


I've got an extra megasquirt computer and harness, I love putting modern stuff on old cars, machining, anodizing, tig welding, carbon fiber. Materials have come a long way and I've been fortunate to have the tools or at least access to tools to make some really good parts, I'm thinking I'll eventually tig together a full exhaust and Turbo possibly, and Mill off the log from the head and make a good intake for it. Me and another machinist have been toying with the idea of milling off the log intake and threading the ports for 6 bungs we can weld flanges to. It would be more work than its worth I know, but that's how we do most things, also we have been wanting to try to build our own billet pistons, maybe this would be a good engine to test them on. And as far as the body, possibly fix up the panels that are rusted and use them as molds to build some carbon fiber panels, it would be mostly aesthetic but it's slightly lighter, and carbon fiber isn't too expensive once you have the equipment. For suspension I love the 4 link with watts link. I've used that setup before but never on my own car, it's a really nice setup for touring and autocross, I haven't checked out the front suspension much yet but it seems to be a pretty good setup at least for factory parts

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Re: 61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #6 by johnws6 » Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:37 am

chad wrote:welcome to the i6 world!
that 170 was "a lill tqer",
the 200 will B a lill more race like.

how far will U go with the falcon? what direction?


I make extra parts sometimes if people are interested in them, mostly for my cost plus a little extra for my effort.
We're going to make a fuel pump block of plate this weekend, 3/8 thick, blue anodized billet aluminum, possibly with 200 milled into it, and maybe some carbon head light buckets

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project falcon/170 engine

Post #7 by chad » Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:59 pm

U sound like ur havin alot of fun.
:shock: :lol: :twisted:

I'd like 2 see 6 fuel injectors stickin outta the side of 1 of these motors, don't care what 1 (144, 170, 200, 250 / 240, 300).
not sure how to doit but opposite side ada exhaust seems right? I think the head slants the other way tho & plugs R in the way?
All above my pay grade!
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: project falcon/170 engine

Post #8 by johnws6 » Fri Aug 25, 2017 12:37 am

chad wrote:U sound like ur havin alot of fun.
:shock: :lol: :twisted:

I'd like 2 see 6 fuel injectors stickin outta the side of 1 of these motors, don't care what 1 (144, 170, 200, 250 / 240, 300).
not sure how to doit but opposite side ada exhaust seems right? I think the head slants the other way tho & plugs R in the way?
All above my pay grade!


Haha if I'm going with 6 injectors I'm using a skyline nissan engine I have laying around, that's what my friends wanted me to use, but I'd rather try to use the old engine, the extra megasquirt ecu I have only runs 4 injectors but I could probably still run 6 on it in batch fire if I got a peak and hold inherit driver to go with it

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Re: 61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #9 by chad » Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:26 pm

"...rather try to use the old engine..."
around here we think the bottom end is pretty stout.

cm'on...give it a try?...1 per cyl? jusss tap'n thread 6 holes?
Some here have successfully tried the TBI, trigger wheel, etc -
This'd B the next step, no?
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: 61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #10 by johnws6 » Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:50 pm

chad wrote:"...rather try to use the old engine..."
around here we think the bottom end is pretty stout.

cm'on...give it a try?...1 per cyl? jusss tap'n thread 6 holes?
Some here have successfully tried the TBI, trigger wheel, etc -
This'd B the next step, no?


The bottom end would be pretty good I imagine but without supporting intake mods port injection won't fix much, it would be cool for sure though, maybe I'll look into it with some other mods

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Re: 61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #11 by xctasy » Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:17 am

Ak Miller did everything from 1950's to 1984 before he retired....

Hillbourn Mechanical Injection

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1-1/2 venturis per cylinder (12 bbl's of Six Deuce Stromberg 97's on a stroked to 352 cube "283" Chev V8),

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By 1967, he was doing side draft twin SU

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and four carbs per six cylinder (Four Keihn 37'son a 200 Ford Six),
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Back in the 50's and 60's, the Chevy guys were doing it too

5-bbl GMC 302's

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and 5-bbl Chevy 250/292's run five bbl carbs on there L6's.

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A Type 2 Bosch or Siemens injector is an exceptionally bad item to miss point unless its in a 2-BBL CFi Motorcraft carb, or a Fast/Easy EFI Holley 4-bbl throttle body....stocking four of them in a log intake, good luck with it, it'll bias feed cylinders.


Carbs with Electronic mixture control are excpetionally good atomisers of fuel, and you can plant them anywhere on the log head.

My pick has been to mix the really efficient 1946 era YS/YF Carter with Fords 1983-1987 Mixture Control Solenoid, and run a simple carb electronically.


Four YFA Carters and run the Mixture Control Solenoid via MegaSquirt.


Basically Ford style idle air contol /ISC valve rehashed to Pulse Width Modulate the float level in the carb.

It never worked as well as Ford intended becasue the YFA and EECIV were both a lot more involved than people realised. The YFA is basically an SU workablike carb with the Metering Rod as the SU needle, and the same schtuck happens inside...change the "stage" of the float bowel fuel level, you then change air fuel ratio right down to the nearest teth of an A/F Ratio using the same system Bosch injector fuel delivery does.



Metering rod carbs are mainly a self energising thing, the size and taper controls everything finely. The MCS just puts a spit and polish on Air Fuel mixture when required. Fords system was 100% Speed Density EFi EECIV run, just like a MegaSquirt 2, but its injector driver is surplanted by the MCS driver.

Essentially, there is a TPS, MAP sensor and an ISC (Ford style idle air contol)

So if you want to turbo it to about 9 psi, it will work in that instance too.

Four YFA Carter Feedbacks are like running four 43 mm throttle bodies with fuel delivery up to 500 hp ( 125 hp per throttle body)


MSII and MegaJolt runs that system excellently well, better than the modern FITech and other Throttle Body 4-bbl carb EFi systems.



Ford was WAY W-A-Y ahead of the game. Carter carbs are like 168 bux each, the MCS, 65 bux, and you can tailor a system to suit your needs with the PWM alogritms in MSII. That way you can run a low pressure fuel delivery system, with just a Strip Dominator Carter fuel pump and 8.5 psi of pressure. If you wanna add a turbo, you boost reference it, up to 9 psi boost possiable.

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Feedback Carter YFA. These are 1981 to 1989 4.9 Big Six or 83-86 2.3 OHC Fox/ Ranger carbs. Control was by MCU or EECIV "ECU".

A great, but very missunderstood carb, most problems are the 65 dollar Mixture Control Solenoid and its interaction with the ECU sensors.

FrenchTown Flyer said it best, something like "Could Ford have made a less helpfull Feedback carb than the 4.9 EECIV carb system? I think not...."

The part number on the Mixture Control Solenoid and another stamped on the carb body, and another Motorcraft Number on the tin tag on the tells you if its E-van /F-truck 4.9 or Fox/ Ranger 2.3. Two kinds. The one above is an 86 F150 Truck 1-bbl YFA Carter Feedback.


The Feedback YFA is a direct copy of the AWD SU HIF 7, 6 and 44 carbs used in the later 1980 EU emissions English British Leyland 3.4 Jags and some emissions Austin Rover 4 and 6 cylinder cars like the SD1 Rover 4 cyl 2000 and 6 cyl 2300/2600.

David Vizard used this on the 55 mpg, 55mph 1275 Mini Clubman he took around the USA in the early 80's, and described the system.

It works the same way, by reducing float bowl stage to weaken and lean off fuel mixture. Carter metering rod carbs and SU's have similar enrichment philosphies.

http://www.fbekholden.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18810&start=45 wrote:"The Additional Weakening Device works (leans the mixture) by lowering the fuel level in the jet. It does this by changing the pressure differential between the end of the jet (the carb throat) and the fuel in the float bowl. Normally the fuel in the float bowl is subjected to standard air pressure, as the float bowl is vented as per the image below:"


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XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: 61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #12 by chad » Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:41 pm

That mid-sump gunna B OK w/that 200's suspension?
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: 61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #13 by johnws6 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:11 am

for the moment since I just need it running what seems to be the standard solution for carbs? this is what I have now, do I need to fix it or replace it? just something simple to get it running while I'm fixing everything

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Re: 61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #14 by chad » Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:11 pm

the 1st of the 2 pic you've shown us above has the SCV - so a LOM distributor is needed w/it.
I (myself, possibly only) would not spend any time w/it unless wanting something completely accurate to the year.

Go to a non SCV/LOM (non-feedback carb/dizzy) system of post '67 era. A (is it '72 + ?) DSII (duraspark 2) distributer and if wanted the same carb but a 2 yr newer ("68 +) would B my way forward with this project. If U have 'the Handbook'* it'll show U or U could click on "Tech Archive" in the 2nd (middle) blue horrizontal bar above.

There's nothing like these 2 sources...
except....
us, here.

* frm Matt (at vintage inlines dot com ~ $25)
:thumbup:
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: 61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #15 by johnws6 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:40 pm

chad wrote:the 1st of the 2 pic you've shown us above has the SCV - so a LOM distributor is needed w/it.
I (myself, possibly only) would not spend any time w/it unless wanting something completely accurate to the year.

Go to a non SCV/LOM (non-feedback carb/dizzy) system of post '67 era. A (is it '72 + ?) DSII (duraspark 2) distributer and if wanted the same carb but a 2 yr newer ("68 +) would B my way forward with this project. If U have 'the Handbook'* it'll show U or U could click on "Tech Archive" in the 2nd (middle) blue horrizontal bar above.

There's nothing like these 2 sources...
except....
us, here.

* frm Matt (at vintage inlines dot com ~ $25)
:thumbup:


Sorry about this but I don't know any of those acronyms, it's a little bit out of my standard work. Honestly i guess I don't know the right questions to ask yet, but it sounds like a need a carb that doesn't require a feedback signal from the dizzy? Please be patient and talk slow because I'm in a far different area than what's familiar to me. And thank you for the information!

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Re: 61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #16 by 67Straightsix » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:54 pm

On the '67 200 the carburetor and distributor must be used together. If you change one and not the other your going to have a hard time tuning the thing. There are a lot knowledgeable people on this site keep asking questions.

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Re: 61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #17 by gb500 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:08 am

you can use the loadomatic carb - by converting it to venturi vaccum only- then can use it with a normal mechanical advance distributer .like DSII

but have to check the dist shaft sizes
google 'drop a loadomatic'

actually here :also explains aot of the acronyms
http://www.63fordfalcon.com/articles/au ... matic.html

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Re: 61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #18 by chad » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:11 am

johnws6 wrote:
chad wrote: If U have 'the Handbook'* it'll show U or U could click on "Tech Archive" in the 2nd (middle) blue horrizontal bar above.
* frm Matt (at vintage inlines dot com ~ $25)

Sorry about this but I don't know any of those acronyms, it's a little bit out of my standard work. Honestly i guess I don't know the right questions to ask yet, but it sounds like a need a carb that doesn't require a feedback signal from the dizzy?

Sounds just like me.
LOM load-o-matic (dizzy)
SCV spark control valve (carb)
again, I like the 2 above sources ("the ford6 performance Handbook" & while waiting for delivery use of the free "Tech Archive" above).
The sketch cited above in the link helped this non-mechanic get up to speed as well.

Thanks for ur pic - that helped as well.
May B go for a performance carb NOW as U get all this up to final product?
I know U wanted to 'throw on something just for now to get it running' but the simple DSII (brain or another component ie chrysler orange box, GM HEI module, coil, DSII dizzy) and post '67 carb (1V or 2V) are good upgrades. These engines are a lill bit constricted on top w/the integrated 'log head' (that lill tube the carb sit on). Some machine the head for a 'direct mount' 2V carb. It's all in the Handbook and Tech Archive.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: 61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #19 by johnws6 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:34 am

I'm assuming this is the 2v everyone talks about? If it is I might just buy it
https://m.advanceautoparts.com/p/united ... lsrc=aw.ds

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Re: 61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #20 by wsa111 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:53 pm

Another option would be a 350-7448 Holley. De-jet from 61 to 59 or 60 main jet.
67 mustang,C-4, with mod. 80 hd, custom 500 cfm carb with annular boosters, hooker headers, dual exh.-X pipe, flowmaster mufflers, DSII dist. MSD-6al & MSD-Blaster 8252 Coil. Engine 205" .030" over with offset ground crank & 1.65 roller rockers. 9.5 comp., Isky 262 cam.
2003 Ford Lightning daily driver. Recurving Distributors. billythedistributorman@live.com
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Re: 61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #21 by johnws6 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:27 am

my distributor is stuck so that will probably die on its way out. ill have to replace that anyway though with the new carb I'm assuming?
i also have this carb but I doubt its worth anything
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Re: 61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #22 by johnws6 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 pm

my weekend didn't go as planed but I finally got the aluminum and carbon fiber in, so i can make some parts. I think ive decided on the 2v 2100 carb. and on another plus, my grandfather just got a new corvette, fully loaded, brake package, z06, all the cool stuff, except its auto. he is getting old though

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Re: 61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #23 by chad » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:34 am

that carb (I believe it's the 1) is VERY desriable to some hot roders.
It is hi priced by the e-bay sorts.
A (sight) glass (bowel) is placed on the end by many.
Some here useem in the triple carb set up. That may B one way to consider (as I C it due to viewing ur other pic)? C 1 of powerband's restomods as a good example of this use.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: 61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #24 by bubba22349 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:15 am

johnws6 wrote:for the moment since I just need it running what seems to be the standard solution for carbs? this is what I have now, do I need to fix it or replace it? just something simple to get it running while I'm fixing everything

Image
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:beer: That's a good looking Vet! If you need your Falcon running quickly right now I would just clean up and install a rebuild kit in the 1966 Autolite carb (they are a excellent carb) when used with a stock LoadOMatic type Distribitor you already have. The carb looks to be fairly compleat and it is a real good match for the stock distributor now in your 1966 200. That should make it run decent enough for the time being. Later on if you plan to do some mods to the 200 then a DuraSpark II ignistion system and either a Autolite / Motorcraft 2V or Holley 2V would be a good combo for a mild performance build, there are also many others that work great including a big faveriote of mine that just looks like it belongs on an early Falcon engine and they perform great too, that's the Offy 3x1V intake setup, all you need is another Holley 1V like you have on the old 170 to use for the two end carb's (also see the below post). Good luck :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: 61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #25 by bubba22349 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:37 pm

johnws6 wrote:my distributor is stuck so that will probably die on its way out. ill have to replace that anyway though with the new carb I'm assuming?
i also have this carb but I doubt its worth anything
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Yeah that Distribitor isn't going to fit into your 200 anyway it has a different smaller shaft size! It really isn't any better or worse performance wise than the one you have in the 1966 engine so forget trying to use over the 200 one in it. Basically thes Falcon engine Distributors came in three favors the 1960 to 1967 (Calif. engine specs are different and got the newer point Distribitor a year earlier) these were all the LoadOMatic types a fairly decent system but only for a pure stock engine. In 1968 to 1974 the Falcon engines finally got a new point Distribitor with the combo mechanical / vacuum advance system this was a huge improvement in performance over the old LOM system. Than in 1975 until the end of inline six production of 1981-83 depending on if a 200 or 250, they had the DuraSpark II ignistion system another great leap in Performance. This is a great upgrade for a stock 200 or a Hi Performace build.

That old Holley carb is a great one to use on the Tri Power Offy 3 X 1V intakes (end carb's). That 170 engine probably has an adjustable rocker arm set & push rods, that's a good up grade for your 200 if you happen to go to a more Hi Performance cam. Lastly the 170 head can be swapped onto the 200 for little more compression though the later 1977 up 200 / 250 heads are better still with larger valves and the better valve seats for today's fuels. :thumbup:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: 61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #26 by johnws6 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:43 pm

bubba22349 wrote:
johnws6 wrote:my distributor is stuck so that will probably die on its way out. ill have to replace that anyway though with the new carb I'm assuming?
i also have this carb but I doubt its worth anything
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Yeah that Distribitor isn't going to fit into your 200 anyway it has a different smaller shaft size! It really isn't any better or worse performance wise than the one you have in the 1966 engine so forget trying to use over the 200 one in it. Basically thes Falcon engine Distributors came in three favors the 1960 to 1967 (Calif. engine specs are different and got the newer point Distribitor a year earlier) these were all the LoadOMatic types a fairly decent system but only for a pure stock engine. In 1968 to 1974 the Falcon engines finally got a new point Distribitor with the combo mechanical / vacuum advance system this was a huge improvement in performance over the old LOM system. Than in 1975 until the end of inline six production of 1981-83 depending on if a 200 or 250, they had the DuraSpark II ignistion system another great leap in Performance. This is a great upgrade for a stock 200 or a Hi Performace build.

That old Holley carb is a great one to use on the Tri Power Offy 3 X 1V intakes (end carb's). That 170 engine probably has an adjustable rocker arm set & push rods, that's a good up grade for your 200 if you happen to go to a more Hi Performance cam. Lastly the 170 head can be swapped onto the 200 for little more compression though the later 1977 up 200 / 250 heads are better still with larger valves and the better valve seats for today's fuels. :thumbup:


My seized engine is a 144 I'm pretty sure, also the dizzy in it is broke and both carbs are pretty beat, for now I'm probably going to go with the 2100 ford carb if I can find one, I've got some really good plastic sitting in gas right now, if it doesn't dissolve in going to make a nice adapter to fit the carb on the log manifold I have. Though I am thinking of getting a set of infectious and cutting up the extra head just to see what I can make

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Re: 61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #27 by bubba22349 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:10 am

Ok then if it's a 144 there is little in the way of parts that you can use on your 200 that would only be the adjustable rocker arms and pushrods. Anyway sounds like you have a good plan a 2100 or 2150 is a great way to go for an updated carb. Good luck :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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options for a 200 build

Post #28 by chad » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:13 pm

bubba22349 wrote:...sounds like you have a good plan a 2100 or 2150 is a great way to go for an updated carb. Good luck :nod:


Some do a 'direct mount' by machining a flat spot on the log where they place the 2v.
U may have seen or read bout this in the "Handbook" or above "Tech Archive". It's a lill
involved but still a basic operation. However a great many have avoided disaster by using
a 2 or 3 step process rather than just wackin a flat spot in, boltin a carb on.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: 61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #29 by johnws6 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:23 pm

well my weekends haven't gone as planned lately but I finally made a few molds for parts, I'm not satisfied with them yet but hopefully the one I just finished will be good.

also I got the engine to crank just pouring gas in the carb so at least it will run if it has a good carb. if my carbs weren't of very questionable condition I would rebuild one of them, sadly they are both very rough.

suppose that means I'm in the market for a autolite 2v carb. the distributor ive seen many people say use a pertronix to run it and it would be fine, so I think ill use that for the original look.

I'm going to sandblast my extra valve cover because I'm not happy with the one I have. I didn't clean it enough

also fixed the harness for a 1 wire alternator and ill run a better relay for the horns so it will be cleaner with less wires
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on a side note I got some decent new wheels for the s10 and ordered some bf Goodrich radial t/a tires for it. 295 on the back!!!

and helped a friend overhaul his 2.8 s10 with a new oil pump, gaskets, seals, clutch and a few other things. and since we were there decided to throw on some roller tip rockers for fun
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Re: 61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #30 by bubba22349 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:05 pm

johnws6 wrote: also I got the engine to crank just pouring gas in the carb so at least it will run if it has a good carb. if my carbs weren't of very questionable condition I would rebuild one of them, sadly they are both very rough.

suppose that means I'm in the market for a autolite 2v carb. the distributor ive seen many people say use a pertronix to run it and it would be fine, so I think ill use that for the original look.


If your going to use the newer Autolite 2V carb then you will also need to change out your current old Load O Matic Distributor too, using in a Pertonix unit in it won't help it when used with the later model carb's! You will have to upgrade your Distribitor, your choices are 1. the 1968 to 74 points type (this would still keep that original look) and then you can install the Pertonix unit in it for a good working unit, 2. the DuraSparkII (DSII) electronic can be used with the 1975 (DSI cap and rotor it would still look original too). Other units that can work are 3. a Mallory Duel point or 4. Mallory Electronic 5. an Accell Duel point / (NAPA auto parts "Echlin" also had their version both units were made by Echlin) these also look vintage too. or 6. then there is the copy of HEI. , 7. DUI. these last two in my opion look a bit out of place on these vintage six'es. Good luck :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: 61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #31 by johnws6 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:56 pm

this might be a stupid question but is there really a big difference between the LOM and a standard mechanical/vacuum advance dizzy? does the carb send a different signal to it than regular vacuum?

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Re: 61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #32 by bubba22349 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:06 pm

johnws6 wrote:this might be a stupid question but is there really a big difference between the LOM and a standard mechanical/vacuum advance dizzy? does the carb send a different signal to it than regular vacuum?


It's not a stupid question at all, there is a lot of confusion by many new owners on the operation of these Load O Matic systems! Yes for sure there is a huge difference between the LOM Distributors used on almost all Ford / Mercury engines starting back in 1949 until 1956 on the V8's and on most six'es until 1967 compared to the later model mechanical / vaccum advance Distributors as the LOM doesn't have any mechanical advance system only the load type of a Vaccum advance.

Yes the old style carb's that have a SCV (Spark Control Valve) dose send a different Vaccum signal to the Distribitor to advance the timing based on engine load it is a combination of the engine Manafold Vacuum and the Carb's Venturi Vaccum. In its day it was a very decent working system though it is only good for a mostly all stock engine when using a matched SCV type carb with the LOD distrib. The LOD dosent work like any other Distributors you might have worked on! You can read about how these LOD systems work at this link, ci/Loadomatic.html

One of the newer Distributors is the only way to go when you plan on modding your engine for more Performace and even on a stock engine there is a substantial performance improvement over a LOD. My personal faveriote for all my Ford engines no matter if it's a Six or V8's is to use a DuraSpark II system. Good luck :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: 61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #33 by johnws6 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:55 am

welp got my parts in finally today. I hate myself for going hei but I keep telling myself its not the end solution. anyway here we are.

been fixing random things under the hood and hopefully the drive shaft will be cut down soon.
I need a different yoke for it though so it will fit the newer tranny

if anyone is interested I can make them a 1 inch spacer to make a chevy one wire alternator fit their original bracket. its much easier to wire obviously and looks really clean since its less wiring. also I can anodize it different colors, ill be making this one black just so it blends well
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hes sleeping on the job and its only 4 am!
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Re: 61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #34 by chad » Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:25 pm

did U ID the head (thru casting numbers)?
U Go RB!
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: 61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #35 by bubba22349 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:48 pm

LOL :hmmm: that's kind of a hard mattress he's using! :beer: congrats your on the way to a nice performance boost. :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: 61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #36 by johnws6 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:50 am

chad wrote:did U ID the head (thru casting numbers)?
U Go RB!

Have not even thought to verify anything, any reason to do so other than it might not a 200? I still haven't gotten around to buying the book, every time I think about it I'm not able to do so

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Re: 61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #37 by xctasy » Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:06 am

C6 DE 6090 B2 will be a 200 for sure.

Image

Cross check is on the pad on the block at the gasket level by the PCV valve or road tube, there is a code stamped T to denote a 200.
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XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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ID what U have to coordinate upgrades

Post #38 by chad » Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:38 am

"... the pad on the block…"
Yes, head may B different motor than block. Block casting is on pass. side, near down tube of exh.
:nod:
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: 61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #39 by johnws6 » Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:39 pm

BEFORE I GO FURTHER I DESPERATELY NEED A 28 SPLINE YOKE FOR A 200 I6 3 SPEED PM ME IF YOU HAVE ONE OR AT LEAST SOLID INFO ON WHERE TO BUY ONE THAT FOR SURE FITS A 200 I6 3 SPEED

so now that my desperate plea is out of the way this is where I am
I need brakes and a fuel tank but for the first time it cranks on its own fully functioning carb and with the key no less!
I haven't gotten to do as much as id like lately since ive been working on my s10 race truck but here we are.
the plug wires are v8 hei wires since I'm being a little cheap at the moment with all the different projects.
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it was really cold but we got a supposedly 289 v8 four eyed fox. I'm pretty sure its a 302 though I haven't checked numbers.
going to Tennessee Saturday to get a 90 model fuel injected 302 to swap into it
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don't have a picture of my red s10 except the engine back when I was still getting it running
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and heres the teal turd we call "freedom"
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Re: 61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #40 by chad » Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:27 am

good to hear about your progress, thanks 4 comin back.

I see you have an HEI distrub on there...what R the other components in ur ignition system?
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: 61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #41 by johnws6 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:02 am

chad wrote:good to hear about your progress, thanks 4 comin back.

I see you have an HEI distrub on there...what R the other components in ur ignition system?

I ran the hot wire that originally went to the old coil to the hot on the hei. That's all I did, still runs on the key the old way. I still need to get cut to fit wires and make plug wire brackets. As for other electrical I adapted a chevy 1 wire alternator and I'm running the wire straight to the battery so no need for any of the old rectifier and made the wire harness much smaller.

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Re: 61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #42 by Econoline » Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:45 pm

""T" on the road draft tube"

I've read this twice this week on this forum and it is incorrect. T= 170. It was on my 170's road draft tube, T in a circle. Solid lifter engine. Did they make 200's with solid lifters?

144 = "N'

170= "T"

ci/Ident-2.html
It ain't gonna fix itself

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Re: 61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #43 by johnws6 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:51 am

ok so Ive not really done enough lately but ive been try to do little things at least to make the car nicer and easier to work on.
removed the fuel tank, I'm going to need a new one obviously
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pulled apart the bottom of the front seat and put in some maters pad and put on a free seat cover I got. doesn't mater because the track is rusted all the way forward and I'm going to probably have to take apart the whole seat to dislodge it just to drive it
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took the head lights out and apart and had them sand blasted along with a few other parts like the fuel tank inlet tube and some hold downs for the seat. after sand blasting they were cleaned, heated, and painted with roll bar paint. also replacing all the screws and bolts I can remove with stainless hardware covered in anti-seize
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further progress - 61 falcon

Post #44 by chad » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:27 pm

"RB",
ur not bringing this back from Zero, but pretty close.
Thanks for all U R doing, subscribed to the thread'n watchin!
(wida smile)

Keep it up!
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: 61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #45 by johnws6 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:23 pm

antiseize all stainless fasteners, they aren't good with touching other metals. They will seize and stick if not covered in antiseize

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Re: 61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #46 by johnws6 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:31 am

been working on my truck lately, unfortunately it has to live outside right now but at least its getting work done.
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I've still got to work on the coolant tubes and get rid of the bendy straw sections, they look like junk on it but right now its more about getting it running reliably
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also got extra time the other day and wanted to check how the pistons are doing after a few cranks on my falcon, still just don't trust it quite yet since I bought it as "good" but the previous owner didn't even know they had a blown head gasket

its a bit hard to make it out by the picture but all 6 cylinders look clean as well as the pistons
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got my new radiator yesterday and dropped it in, its not bolted down but is it supposed to be so close to the pulleys? at most ill have an inch between it and the water pump pulley bolts and the radiator
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Re: 61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #47 by johnws6 » Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:36 pm

changed my mind
Last edited by johnws6 on Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #48 by chad » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:07 pm

don't get rid of it, all the panels R for sale after mrkt.
Stick w/us!?! No?, trade when finished for a '60 - 63 'chero !

(we have a For Sale forum to put it in)
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: 61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #49 by johnws6 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:05 am

chad wrote:don't get rid of it, all the panels R for sale after mrkt.
Stick w/us!?! No?, trade when finished for a '60 - 63 'chero !

(we have a For Sale forum to put it in)

I just realized I don't know what to do with it when it's done, I've got a ton of other cars. I'm selling one this weekend, if I get rid of the falcon also I'll still have 6

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Re: 61 falcon "rusty bob"

Post #50 by chad » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:42 pm

6 aint enuff
U need 10, lol

8^0


don't 4get our 4sale forum...
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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