61 falcon "rusty bob"

johnws6

Active member
Hey all, I haven't joined a new forum in a long time but recently I got a falcon that's in desperate need of tlc. it hasn't drove since 1972. The engine was locked up too far when I got it and none of the wheels turned. We got the wheels freed up and towed it down the road popping the clutch in 3rd gear but the engine didn't budge. So I bought a 200 engine from a 66 mustang that was supposed to be healthy
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old engine out getting ready for the 200
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for some reason they painted the valve cover chevy orange
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cleaned and fixed the valve cover
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had a spare set of junk wheels that we thought might fit since the original wheels were rusted through, they didn't fit but then we found another set that were much better
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found milky oil in the pan cleaned and painted
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replaced the head gasket and painted the head
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replaced water pump and hoping that with a few more new parts it will crank
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Got a 4.6 engine this weekend to put in something, also 65 Mustang project
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About me personally I'm a uti grad that's built cars personally and professionally for years, custom fab work, cnc and manual machining, and welding.
These are some of my other cars
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v8 s10
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96 corvette
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And some things I've helped with as a builder
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finally the cars I wish I had back
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:beer: the old 1961 Falcon cleaned up real decent! In answer to your question as to why somebody might of painted the Falcon's valve cover Orange, all Ford engines were painted differently before 1966. As an example a 170 cu. in. engine would of have been factory assembled with a valve cover and air cleaner that was painted Red Orange. The oil pan, block, and head and parts were painted gloss Black accessories like Generator and Starter were painted semi gloss black. For more info see a resent post on engine colors here viewtopic.php?f=1&t=77044 Wow that's a nice collection cars you have too. Good luck on your Falcon build. :nod:
 
Thanks for the info, maybe that's what they were doing? I'm not sure, it looked Chevy orange to me, but I might repaint it to look like the 170
 
welcome to the i6 world!
that 170 was "a lill tqer",
the 200 will B a lill more race like.

how far will U go with the falcon? what direction?
 
chad":t5ykbjv1 said:
welcome to the i6 world!
that 170 was "a lill tqer",
the 200 will B a lill more race like.

how far will U go with the falcon? what direction?

I've got an extra megasquirt computer and harness, I love putting modern stuff on old cars, machining, anodizing, tig welding, carbon fiber. Materials have come a long way and I've been fortunate to have the tools or at least access to tools to make some really good parts, I'm thinking I'll eventually tig together a full exhaust and Turbo possibly, and Mill off the log from the head and make a good intake for it. Me and another machinist have been toying with the idea of milling off the log intake and threading the ports for 6 bungs we can weld flanges to. It would be more work than its worth I know, but that's how we do most things, also we have been wanting to try to build our own billet pistons, maybe this would be a good engine to test them on. And as far as the body, possibly fix up the panels that are rusted and use them as molds to build some carbon fiber panels, it would be mostly aesthetic but it's slightly lighter, and carbon fiber isn't too expensive once you have the equipment. For suspension I love the 4 link with watts link. I've used that setup before but never on my own car, it's a really nice setup for touring and autocross, I haven't checked out the front suspension much yet but it seems to be a pretty good setup at least for factory parts
 
chad":130fuomv said:
welcome to the i6 world!
that 170 was "a lill tqer",
the 200 will B a lill more race like.

how far will U go with the falcon? what direction?

I make extra parts sometimes if people are interested in them, mostly for my cost plus a little extra for my effort.
We're going to make a fuel pump block of plate this weekend, 3/8 thick, blue anodized billet aluminum, possibly with 200 milled into it, and maybe some carbon head light buckets
 
U sound like ur havin alot of fun.
:shock: :LOL: :eek:

I'd like 2 see 6 fuel injectors stickin outta the side of 1 of these motors, don't care what 1 (144, 170, 200, 250 / 240, 300).
not sure how to doit but opposite side ada exhaust seems right? I think the head slants the other way tho & plugs R in the way?
All above my pay grade!
 
chad":3fc5i0ym said:
U sound like ur havin alot of fun.
:shock: :LOL: :eek:

I'd like 2 see 6 fuel injectors stickin outta the side of 1 of these motors, don't care what 1 (144, 170, 200, 250 / 240, 300).
not sure how to doit but opposite side ada exhaust seems right? I think the head slants the other way tho & plugs R in the way?
All above my pay grade!

Haha if I'm going with 6 injectors I'm using a skyline nissan engine I have laying around, that's what my friends wanted me to use, but I'd rather try to use the old engine, the extra megasquirt ecu I have only runs 4 injectors but I could probably still run 6 on it in batch fire if I got a peak and hold inherit driver to go with it
 
"...rather try to use the old engine..."
around here we think the bottom end is pretty stout.

cm'on...give it a try?...1 per cyl? jusss tap'n thread 6 holes?
Some here have successfully tried the TBI, trigger wheel, etc -
This'd B the next step, no?
 
chad":qg9pnnz2 said:
"...rather try to use the old engine..."
around here we think the bottom end is pretty stout.

cm'on...give it a try?...1 per cyl? jusss tap'n thread 6 holes?
Some here have successfully tried the TBI, trigger wheel, etc -
This'd B the next step, no?

The bottom end would be pretty good I imagine but without supporting intake mods port injection won't fix much, it would be cool for sure though, maybe I'll look into it with some other mods
 
Ak Miller did everything from 1950's to 1984 before he retired....

Hillbourn Mechanical Injection




1-1/2 venturis per cylinder (12 bbl's of Six Deuce Stromberg 97's on a stroked to 352 cube "283" Chev V8),



By 1967, he was doing side draft twin SU




and four carbs per six cylinder (Four Keihn 37'son a 200 Ford Six),





Back in the 50's and 60's, the Chevy guys were doing it too

5-bbl GMC 302's




and 5-bbl Chevy 250/292's run five bbl carbs on there L6's.





A Type 2 Bosch or Siemens injector is an exceptionally bad item to miss point unless its in a 2-BBL CFi Motorcraft carb, or a Fast/Easy EFI Holley 4-bbl throttle body....stocking four of them in a log intake, good luck with it, it'll bias feed cylinders.


Carbs with Electronic mixture control are excpetionally good atomisers of fuel, and you can plant them anywhere on the log head.

My pick has been to mix the really efficient 1946 era YS/YF Carter with Fords 1983-1987 Mixture Control Solenoid, and run a simple carb electronically.


Four YFA Carters and run the Mixture Control Solenoid via MegaSquirt.


Basically Ford style idle air contol /ISC valve rehashed to Pulse Width Modulate the float level in the carb.

It never worked as well as Ford intended becasue the YFA and EECIV were both a lot more involved than people realised. The YFA is basically an SU workablike carb with the Metering Rod as the SU needle, and the same schtuck happens inside...change the "stage" of the float bowel fuel level, you then change air fuel ratio right down to the nearest teth of an A/F Ratio using the same system Bosch injector fuel delivery does.



Metering rod carbs are mainly a self energising thing, the size and taper controls everything finely. The MCS just puts a spit and polish on Air Fuel mixture when required. Fords system was 100% Speed Density EFi EECIV run, just like a MegaSquirt 2, but its injector driver is surplanted by the MCS driver.

Essentially, there is a TPS, MAP sensor and an ISC (Ford style idle air contol)

So if you want to turbo it to about 9 psi, it will work in that instance too.

Four YFA Carter Feedbacks are like running four 43 mm throttle bodies with fuel delivery up to 500 hp ( 125 hp per throttle body)


MSII and MegaJolt runs that system excellently well, better than the modern FITech and other Throttle Body 4-bbl carb EFi systems.



Ford was WAY W-A-Y ahead of the game. Carter carbs are like 168 bux each, the MCS, 65 bux, and you can tailor a system to suit your needs with the PWM alogritms in MSII. That way you can run a low pressure fuel delivery system, with just a Strip Dominator Carter fuel pump and 8.5 psi of pressure. If you wanna add a turbo, you boost reference it, up to 9 psi boost possiable.



Feedback Carter YFA. These are 1981 to 1989 4.9 Big Six or 83-86 2.3 OHC Fox/ Ranger carbs. Control was by MCU or EECIV "ECU".

A great, but very missunderstood carb, most problems are the 65 dollar Mixture Control Solenoid and its interaction with the ECU sensors.

FrenchTown Flyer said it best, something like "Could Ford have made a less helpfull Feedback carb than the 4.9 EECIV carb system? I think not...."

The part number on the Mixture Control Solenoid and another stamped on the carb body, and another Motorcraft Number on the tin tag on the tells you if its E-van /F-truck 4.9 or Fox/ Ranger 2.3. Two kinds. The one above is an 86 F150 Truck 1-bbl YFA Carter Feedback.


The Feedback YFA is a direct copy of the AWD SU HIF 7, 6 and 44 carbs used in the later 1980 EU emissions English British Leyland 3.4 Jags and some emissions Austin Rover 4 and 6 cylinder cars like the SD1 Rover 4 cyl 2000 and 6 cyl 2300/2600.

David Vizard used this on the 55 mpg, 55mph 1275 Mini Clubman he took around the USA in the early 80's, and described the system.

It works the same way, by reducing float bowl stage to weaken and lean off fuel mixture. Carter metering rod carbs and SU's have similar enrichment philosphies.

http://www.fbekholden.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18810&start=45":37q9ahjx said:
"The Additional Weakening Device works (leans the mixture) by lowering the fuel level in the jet. It does this by changing the pressure differential between the end of the jet (the carb throat) and the fuel in the float bowl. Normally the fuel in the float bowl is subjected to standard air pressure, as the float bowl is vented as per the image below:"







 
That mid-sump gunna B OK w/that 200's suspension?
 
for the moment since I just need it running what seems to be the standard solution for carbs? this is what I have now, do I need to fix it or replace it? just something simple to get it running while I'm fixing everything

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the 1st of the 2 pic you've shown us above has the SCV - so a LOM distributor is needed w/it.
I (myself, possibly only) would not spend any time w/it unless wanting something completely accurate to the year.

Go to a non SCV/LOM (non-feedback carb/dizzy) system of post '67 era. A (is it '72 + ?) DSII (duraspark 2) distributer and if wanted the same carb but a 2 yr newer ("68 +) would B my way forward with this project. If U have 'the Handbook'* it'll show U or U could click on "Tech Archive" in the 2nd (middle) blue horrizontal bar above.

There's nothing like these 2 sources...
except....
us, here.

* frm Matt (at vintage inlines dot com ~ $25)
(y)
 
chad":1f7eas1h said:
the 1st of the 2 pic you've shown us above has the SCV - so a LOM distributor is needed w/it.
I (myself, possibly only) would not spend any time w/it unless wanting something completely accurate to the year.

Go to a non SCV/LOM (non-feedback carb/dizzy) system of post '67 era. A (is it '72 + ?) DSII (duraspark 2) distributer and if wanted the same carb but a 2 yr newer ("68 +) would B my way forward with this project. If U have 'the Handbook'* it'll show U or U could click on "Tech Archive" in the 2nd (middle) blue horrizontal bar above.

There's nothing like these 2 sources...
except....
us, here.

* frm Matt (at vintage inlines dot com ~ $25)
(y)

Sorry about this but I don't know any of those acronyms, it's a little bit out of my standard work. Honestly i guess I don't know the right questions to ask yet, but it sounds like a need a carb that doesn't require a feedback signal from the dizzy? Please be patient and talk slow because I'm in a far different area than what's familiar to me. And thank you for the information!
 
On the '67 200 the carburetor and distributor must be used together. If you change one and not the other your going to have a hard time tuning the thing. There are a lot knowledgeable people on this site keep asking questions.
 
johnws6":2eyz2fe0 said:
chad":2eyz2fe0 said:
If U have 'the Handbook'* it'll show U or U could click on "Tech Archive" in the 2nd (middle) blue horrizontal bar above.
* frm Matt (at vintage inlines dot com ~ $25)
Sorry about this but I don't know any of those acronyms, it's a little bit out of my standard work. Honestly i guess I don't know the right questions to ask yet, but it sounds like a need a carb that doesn't require a feedback signal from the dizzy?
Sounds just like me.
LOM load-o-matic (dizzy)
SCV spark control valve (carb)
again, I like the 2 above sources ("the ford6 performance Handbook" & while waiting for delivery use of the free "Tech Archive" above).
The sketch cited above in the link helped this non-mechanic get up to speed as well.

Thanks for ur pic - that helped as well.
May B go for a performance carb NOW as U get all this up to final product?
I know U wanted to 'throw on something just for now to get it running' but the simple DSII (brain or another component ie chrysler orange box, GM HEI module, coil, DSII dizzy) and post '67 carb (1V or 2V) are good upgrades. These engines are a lill bit constricted on top w/the integrated 'log head' (that lill tube the carb sit on). Some machine the head for a 'direct mount' 2V carb. It's all in the Handbook and Tech Archive.
 
Another option would be a 350-7448 Holley. De-jet from 61 to 59 or 60 main jet.
 
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