First timer, be gentle...

Hello All;
New owner of a 1979 Mustang Ghia Coup. "T" Code inline 6 200/3.3lt with a C-4. Basically stock... Looking for ideas and info on what to do to get it up to snuff, so to speak. I want to keep the inline because it is sort of rare, I think. One year only for the inline 6 in the 'new' Fox body design.
Any suggestions or recommendations appreciated. I was thinking of 3x1 barrels with a header and dual exhaust. DUI ignition and possible cam/valve train upgrade. Motors got 117,000 on it and seems to be still sound.
Going to be a DD so I don't want to get to crazy with it, just a bit more zip, so to speak. Maybe surprise some of these guys with there V8's. LOL.

Cheers
 
Hi, the late engines like yours came with the cam timing advanced for emission reasons. A timing gear change will help your engine. Get the Ford Falcon Performance Handbook to get the most out of your Ford six, and visit Vintage Inlines to see what parts are available. By the duraspark is a very good ignition system. Good luck
 
x2 on getting the Ford Falcon Performance Handbook. That way you can get an overall plan for the engine.

Keep the Duraspark II and have it recurved. The stock advance is setup for emissions, not performance.
You could then use a GM HEI module, or MSD with the recurved DSII.

Good Luck.

Welcome to the forum.
 
Howdy Mongo:

And welcome to The Forum. Yes, it is that good. And we will be gentle. But, I've got to ask, Have you seen, "Blazing Saddles"?

The 200 six cylinders saw service in 1979 to 1982 model years. Yours, in a Ghia, makes it a bit more desirable and rare.

You said it is going to be a daily driver so I'm guessing that you don't want an upgrade project that could have it down for several days or weeks. Given that, I'd recommend that you start by planning, including a budget that you can live with.

For us to be most helpful to you; where are you located? Elevation? Are you a do-it-yourself guy? Or will you need professional mechanic help?

More questions about your car; Which carb is on it. The '79 model year could have either a Carter YF or a Holley 1946. What is the rear gear ratio of your car?

It would be wise to start with a good tune-up and assessment of your engine. If it is sound and in good tune start by bumping the initial advance up to 5 degrees more than stock specs. For example, if stock specs call for a setting of 12 degrees BTC, try setting it to 15 degrees advance. FYI, the DuraSpark II ignition system on your car is a very good system.

Also plan to invest in a Service Manual for your car, as well as a Haynes or Chilton manual.

Again, Welcome to The Forum. Keep the feed back coming.

Adios, David
 
Welcome.


The Falcon Six Performance Handbook is exactly what you need.


Ford is run by Finacial whizz kids and Engineers, forced to by the 1978-1981 Mailase era cost of certifying and making legal automobiles to the public.

For the Falcon Six Performance Handbook to cover the catalytic converter 1976 to 1983 emissions Carb I6 engines, it would have taken 500 pages, not 100.


I can help you with the systems that exist on the catalytic converter era cars.


So the information is killer, and it often sounds like an inpersonal re-buff over the internet. You'll get over it, and once you have an a-ha moment,




you won't feel like your being attacked with an Information Pipe Wrench anymore.



The 3.3 in line six was a 5 year veteren of Fox car sales, about 60% of all 1978 to 1983 Foxes had the engine.

The 1979 German V6 engine had a Z VIN code, 2.8 liter 109 hp engine.
Then the 1979 Cleveland built T VIN code, 3.3 Liter 85 hp engine.
Then B code 91, 94.5, 87 or 97.5 hp 3.3 liter (Fox 80-82 Mustang, Fox 80-82 Capri, 80-82 Mercury Cougar, 80-82 Mercury Cougar XR7, 80-82 Ford Thunderbird, 80-82 Fox Mercury Zephyr, 80-82 Ford Fairmont

Then X code 87-91 hp 3.3 liter (Fox Mercury Zephyr, Mercury Marquis, Ford Fairmont, Ford LTD compacts; The Mustang and Capri replaced the 3,3 with the Code 6 3.8 Essex 90 V6)


It always had only the 1946 Holley 1-bbl, a very competant, simple carb. For 1978-1979, it was not a carb that allowed the engine to idle smoothly, nor was it really well sorted. Later on for 1980-1983 Foxes, the engine was the same, but had a B or X code.


So its not the same code, but its the same engine.


it gained a 1946"C" version, and some of the best features and upgrades Ford ever made to a domestic carb. They were rather hard to undestand

1. Load Control Valve
2. Solenoid Control that interfaced with
3. a Air Conditioner vaccum operated throttle modulator,
4. then an Idle Stop Control solenoid and
5. an electric Bowl Vents, and
6. a electric choke with an integrated Choke Pulldown.

Those six additions were carefree and fixed a lot of problems the 78 to 79's had.

Your car just has the basic 1946, none of those extra features. The engine has a 61 to 66 Holley jet, and responds to jetting up or down just like any other Holley. You can adjust the accelerator pump stroke by bending the actuator wire, and its float bowl is reversed and hidden under the choke control.



The axle and trans codes are on the door post sticker if it hasn't been removed. All 1979 sixes , the one year only 2.8, or the replacment 3.3 engine, all 3.08:1 Y code axle

C4 auto


85 hp T code engine was a middle of the year replacement to the much faster, quicker and just as ecconomial 2.8 liter six.

The 3.3 was indeed a sad addition. It lost 24 horsepower and 1.5 seconds off the 1979 2.8 German Cologne 60 degree V6 accelration figures.



In line SIx was standard Fox Mustang option for 79, 80, 81, 82, then got withdrawn and replaced by the 3.8 Canadian Essex 90 degree V6, which was a 4.2 liter V8 option "replacement"
 
Thanks everyone. Yes it's "Mongo" from Blazzing Saddles! A nickname I got through work. Lol. And it stuck. I will definitely buy the I6 performance handbook but I see they are out of stock on the items list. Anyone know where I could get one? Does the book cover how to get the Duraspark working better. I also am having a rich running issue on cold starts. Been youtubing setting the carb up better. Lol
I'm located in Alberta, Canada. Edmonton to be exact. 2200 ft above sea level. I believe someone asked that question. I know the 200ci is a low performer, but I think it's kinda neat to have in an old 4 eyed Fox. I do have one question, if anyone knows or not. With the high mount starter on these 6's, can a person put an AOD or something with overdrive in them. I drive on the highway quite a bit so the OD would be nice to have.
I do most of the work myself. I have a 70 Cougar vert that I am working on as well. Installing a 429/C6 combo in it. Almost done, just some plumbing and accessories to hook up.
I'm not a certified mechanic but not afraid to tear shit apart. Rebuilt a few engines over the years but never played with inclines before. Thanks for the information guys.
 
i'm more a Mongo Santamaria guy myself....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqOEvN_DQgA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyvJCCW1Me8


Truth is you can't just bolt an AOD up,

the high mount flange makes it hard unless you clock the housing to clear the starter


this is 67Straightsix's


pmFwcxxQj


C3/C4's starter's occuppy a different part of the block, and that screws up direct interchanges; I've been over it many times myself; the early high mount starter flange and the adaptor plates exist, but they aren't easy swaps unless you have time to check it out.

that flange makes a low mount AOD a little hard to do

4qikq0.jpg







but only if its a low mount, big bell E1BE-6015-BB block made from 1982 to 1983 on some C5 equiped cars....that one is an easy bolt up.

Just like the later lock-up clutch auto 3.3's



1981200Block1.jpg

th_1981200Block2.jpg

1983Fairmont200-1.jpg


You can do really easy subframe and engine swaps if you find the originally gray low mount 3.3 engine





 
Howdy Back Mongo:

Q- "With the high mount starter on these 6's, can a person put an AOD,"
A- No, as X thoroughly explained.

Q- "or something with overdrive in them."
A- Yes, as Superford explained. Manual overdrives were available on Mustang sixes in several years. High or low mount starter locations are still an issue. Contact Modern Driveline in Boise, Idaho for details.

Another option is to look for a higher ratio rear end. Many Mustangs of that era came with a 2.87:1 rear gear. While this will improve highway cruising it will hurt off-the-line acceleration.

On the question of staying with all the EPA "Fixes" on your Mustang you will have to decide. You can stay with the '79 systems (Ectasy is the best source if you choose to go that way.) or choose to go old school, pre emissions era.(There are many here who can offer help if you choose to go that way). I'm not familiar with how USA emissions laws effected Canadian engines. You may want to start by checking that out and decide from there. Also, If you are driving this car through Alberta winters, cold starts and warm-ups may also be an issue.

The '79 Ford six suffers from several issues that limited performance. Most significant is the cam timing that was advance to favor low end torque at the expense of higher rpm performance. Other issues are; Lower compression ratio from previous Ford sixes. Down from 9:1 to 8.2:1. The carb, the Holley #1946, with EPA crutches to meet requirements. Some of those are vacuum and thermal switches that, when working as designed, accomplished some goals.

FYI- the DuraSpark II ignition system on you engine is a keeper. In all cases it needs to be recurved to achieve its potential. But you can start by increasing initial advance 5 degrees over the factory specs for your engine. Again, I don't know about what gas is available to you in Edmonton. That may be a factor in optimizing your engines best setting.

Lots to think about. Let us know what you're thinking- Old school or stay with what you have and make the most of it. We're here to help either way.

Adios, David
 
CZLN6":5apc5l8q said:
Howdy Back Mongo:.....
Q- "or something with overdrive in them."
A- Yes, as Superford explained. Manual overdrives were available on Mustang sixes in several years. High or low mount starter locations are still an issue. Contact Modern Driveline in Boise, Idaho for details....

Adios, David

David picked up on the wild ratios.

Darrell (super4ord) has been the unsung hero of these odd ball so -called over driven manual Foxes. He has tantalised us with all the good info over the last 15 years. Including a 2 bbl factory conversion Ford were planning.

super4ord has provided all the bell housing swap information, and there are no limits to making your own 4 or 5 speed stick shift with NASA Moon Shot gearing.


A few details:-

The 79 3.3's missed out on a 4 speed manual option till the October 1979 "1980" model year. It was listed but not supplied on Mustangs and Capris with the 3.3. On 2.8's, at the last minute, the 4 speed SROD was an option, and a very good one. Those cars had 109 hp, and out burned the 255 4.2 and any 3.3.

The 3.3's though also had sensational overdriven SROD's for the 80 and 81 model year, or the even wackier alternative T4 options for 1981.

Based on Mics work at Four Eyed Pride, we've found plenty of them were sold, as this was the second gas crunch.

You don't see them because people moved on to other cars, but they are around.

They came out in some crazy Mustang Cobras, RS Capris, stock Ghia Mustangs, and because the whole range of 79 to 81's Foxes sold so well, most manual 3.3's "automatically" later on became 5.0 T5 swaps, and thats why you don't see them; they are cool looking cars but with lame 87 to 94 hp engines they were problably better off as a 5.0 swap. Based on the "Production Numbers and Decoding" sction at FEP, just about every 80 to 81 5 liter V8 Fox conversion was often a C3, C4 or often 4 speed 3.3.

On those 1980 to 1981 with the stick shift, it was effectivly an over driven 4 speed.

Each effectively were like 0.80:1 top gears with 3.08 axle ratios. SROD or T4, each cruise at 85 mph with just 2900 rpm on the tacho, or at 55mph, just 1900 rpm.

If they haven't been abused, the stock shifter is slick, and they also have nice traffic friendly first gears and a fine gear change. The manual takes a second off the quarter mile time, and they do 30 mpg at 55 mph.

The 1980 and 1981 SROD 4 speed had these ratios

1980 SROD i-6 ratios
Trans Tag RUG EA D*** ***** XXXX
Ratio #1:
3.29 1st,
1.84 2nd,
1.00 3rd,
0.81 4th,
and 3.29 Rev.
Axle ratio 3.08:1
Overall ratios 10.13, 5.67, 3.08, 2.49



For 1981 Borg Warner T4 option was a Ford SR4 made by BW, and in some versions, even shared the T5 1352 case

The 1981 T4 4th gear behaved like an SROD one, but the details were interesting...

Trans Tag 1351 with a 1352 case
4.03 in first,
2.37 in second,
1.49 in third,
1.00 in fourth
and 3.76 Rev.
Axle ratio was 2.47:1!
Overall ratios 9.95, 5.85, 3.68, 2.47

If you can be bothered doing a T5 swap, the info Darrell supplied is here

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=71746&p=585469#p585469

And the post that sparked it all, way back in Noughty 4.

viewtopic.php?t=11464
super4ord":5apc5l8q said:
Well, you guys have had quite an affect on me this last year or so. I traded my 1971 5.0/T-5 Pinto yesterday for a 1980 3.3 c/4 Mustang Notchback. I have been contemplating building an inline six car for some time now. I like the fox chassis, with the rack and pinion steering, strut front suspension, and coil spring rear suspension. I also like the wide availability of parts for the chassis. My plan is to build up a 200/ T-5 and turbo it or spray it. I plan to race it. This is my 4th car with a 200 in it and I swear they are virtually indestructable. This is my 6th Fox chassis car; 4th Mustang, a Fairmont and a Zephyr(which I still have). The debate was to swap the Pinto for a Fox chassis car, or a Turbo 2.5 Dodge Caravan. I currently have 2 Dodge Caravans. I really like them too! So, it looks like I finally got inline with the 200 Mustang. I've read "The Ford Falcon Six Cylinder Performance Handbook" about 10 times now. Heck, I even let my subscriptions to "Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords" and "5.0 Mustangs and Super Fords" run out. I was a subscriber to both "5.0 Mustangs" and "Super Fords" when they were two separate magazines!!! I still get Mustang and Fords magazine, and have been a subscriber to it since it when it was just Mustang magazine. Anyway, I'll quit babbling on and thank you guys and gals(I know there's a few of you out there) again for such an awsome forum. Any more updates on the Crossflow 200 Jack?

Darrell
 
The manual 3.3 six cylinder cars were often loudly colored, and most people thought they were V8's or Turbos.

The 1979's skipped the SROD option for 3.3's, but the existance of parts and information means an over driven 4 or 5 speed is easy to make from any kind of 3.3.

The official line is this.

The wildly over driven 4-speed Tremec 170 (SROD) was not only behind the 1979 and 1982 and some 1983 5.0L V8 Mustangs and Capris but also the 1979 2.8 but technically not the 1979 3.3L I6. All the other "Fox" Zephyrs and Fairmonts had it as an 5.0 option for 1979, 3.3 option for 1980 and 1981.

1980FordFairmontESV8interior-626x382.jpg


The way it was coded makes "Fox Fords" a little bit complicated to decode, but the later 80's and some 83 Foxes got the engine codes changed from T to B to X, and then the gearbox codes reworked. And there were a lot of running changes.

but the cars looked and sounded a heck of a lot tougher than the 87 to 94 hp engines when teamaed up with a 4 speed. These manual 3.3's were true sheeps in wolves clothing, set to out Fox the car buying public!

These two cars below are two of the 3341 3-door Hatches (body code "15") with the code "B" 3.3L engine and code "6" 4-speed transmission. And 2.47 axle.









That's just one of the manual T4 gearboxed Mustang hatches for one year with that gearbox. We are guessing the total 1980 and 1981 manual Tremec SROD and T4 production in all types of Mustangs and Capris in both notch and hatchaback was well over 20000, and thats before you add the Mercury Zephryr and Ford Fairmont 3.3 stick shifts in the mix.



super4ord's car is 2G Orange like ShwaSixCobra's 81 Mustang Hatch 3.3/ T4/2.47



 
Mongo44_62":3g1has2b said:
Hello All;
New owner of a 1979 Mustang Ghia Coup. "T" Code inline 6 200/3.3lt with a C-4. Basically stock... Looking for ideas and info on what to do to get it up to snuff, so to speak. I want to keep the inline because it is sort of rare, I think. One year only for the inline 6 in the 'new' Fox body design.
Any suggestions or recommendations appreciated. I was thinking of 3x1 barrels with a header and dual exhaust. DUI ignition and possible cam/valve train upgrade. Motors got 117,000 on it and seems to be still sound.
Going to be a DD so I don't want to get to crazy with it, just a bit more zip, so to speak. Maybe surprise some of these guys with there V8's. LOL.

Cheers

If you want to stay with an automatic trans then there is the "Poormans Overdrive" option since you have the C4 in your 79 Mustang you could install a low gear set and then one of the supper high ratio rear axle gear sets like the (2.47). There are also overdrive units that can be bolted onto the back of a C4 (Gear Venders etc.) new they are a little pricey but you might be able to find a good used one reasonable too. And if you decide you might want to get just a little crazy you could swap in a 250 short block and then you could bolt up a AOD or AODE behind it. X2 there's no better ignistion than the DS II that you have all ready. So save some of your money and have it curved. Good luck on your Mustang build up. :nod:
 
bubba22349's Poor Mans over drive works this way.


You probably have a 3.08:1 axle right now.

Getting things the way you want it might just be as easy as just sticking with the optional 2.73:1 or 2.47:1 axles found in the Foxes.

Then getting some more drag race orientated 1 st and 2nd gears so the the 3rd (top) can be geared up.

It would seam you know what you want in terms of starting off 1st gear punch, and that nice, effectively "over drive" style overall top gearing.

As a compromise between axle and transmission work, do both, but a little of each.

As a suggestion....

"https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/ati-644025/overview/"
https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/ ... /overview/


2.92:1 Ist, 1.6:1 2nd, is not available right now, but from what others have said, there are unlisted wide ratio parts from Broader Perfomance. Ask Jay if he can supply a 2.9:1 /1.6:1 gear set.

He won't have everything listed, but he makes a high 1st gear kit


like this


"http://www.broaderperformance.com/ford-c4/34-c4-close-ratio-gear-kit.html"
http://www.broaderperformance.com/ford- ... r-kit.html



A low 1st and 2nd is around off the shelf else-ware, some are 2.75:1

Just a recap, the Stock ratios are 1st 2.46:1 2nd 1.46:1 3rd 1:1. It would seam that for a small fee, opening up the C4 again and lowering the first and second gears 18% with a new drum would allow you to add an effectively 25% taller top gear with a 2.47 or 2.73:1 axle gear. It would tick all the right boxes for you, I think.


No overdrive required. bubba22349 suggested this a while back.

See "http://www.broaderperformance.com/32-ford-c4?&p=4
http://www.broaderperformance.com/32-ford-c4?&p=4

"http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/c4-transmissions/586530-vendors-wide-ratio-c4.html"
http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/c4-tran ... io-c4.html


I'd say just a lower ratio, punchier 2.92-2.90:1 1st and 1.60:1 second would get you what you need.

Those wide ratio auto gears are out there, and easy to fit, and make a great improvement.
 
may B use oneada on-line gear ratio calculators 2 get a good idea?
we use them for selectin 4WD components (the Summit link above was 1 once U hit the catelogue)
 
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2017/0 ... ang-coupe/

Article has a few errors which I've corrected.


The base engine for the 1979 Mustang was Ford’s ubiquitous “Pinto” 2300 four-cylinder, good for 88 horsepower.

Performance-minded buyers could get a 132 hp turbocharged version of the 2300

or the 302-cubic-inch/5.0-liter Windsor V8, also rated at 140 hp.

The middle-of-the-road engine option was a 109 hp 2.8-liter version of the “Cologne” V6, already familiar to Americans as the engine used in the 1974-1978 Capri; Ford ran out of the Colognes late in the 1979 model year.

It switched to the good old OHV 200-cubic-inch pushrod straight-six. You lost 3 hp on the 2300 engine when you bought the in line six, or a massive 24 hp lessover the 2.8 V6. 109--->85 hp. How about that?


The torque was good, so it cruises along just fine, but you notice the lack of horsepower, especially since they were all automatics. I've not seen a 3.3 manual for 1979.

That’s the 200 engine we see in this car, and its mandatory C4 auto option.

A few years later, Ford sliced two cylinders off this engine and created the 2.3 liter HSC, which powered Tempos, Topazes, Tauruses, and 2.5 liter Sables. The 2300 Pinto engine was over head cam, physically larger, heavier like all OHC engines


01-1979-Ford-Mustang-in-Colorado-wrecking-yard-photo-by-Murilee-Martin.jpg


This is a base model version of your Ghia notchback.

1980's got the SROD 4 speed option, but there is still a lot of junk DNA in the Ford memory banks..

One of our guys on another forum got told his car had a 2v 3.3 from Kevin Marti's orginal report...that is the actual info in the Ford database, whould you belive.

Wrong info....very typical of everything with the 79-86 Four Eyed Foxes of all types, but sixes especially.

like the 1978 Fairmonts too

1978_fox_ssp_200_302.jpg


By 1981, still not fixed...wrong axle ratios, wrong carb type, wrong hp rating.





Very hard to get the right info.

FoxChassis":21vfmeyi said:
That engine/trans stat is not correct. Contact Marti Auto and have them redo the report for you.









I'd check the fuel delivery system and make sure all the emissions gear is working right, then consider your options.

For I6 guys, oldie but a goodie for 1978-1979 T code 200's with the early Holley 1946

ETCG Gets a New Car! -EricTheCarGuy 79 I6 Fairmont!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L22GsHQi7tU&list=PLSzhQ6St-ov2nxWVKCeU14Vt7JJ_QSZvs





Carburetor Rebuild Basics (Part 1): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85nszLpbbXY



Carburetor Rebuild Basics (Part 2): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dprLQcQrAqE


Carburetor Rebuild Basics (Part 3): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRrJQRtBNck
 
So there you have it Mongo44.

All the info you might need, and more.

Its a very cool car cheap to change bits, but as it is, they run okay. The 79's didn't always idle nice, but they sure are reliable, smooth, quiet, and light to steer.

Intake changes, well, best advice is to follow the tried and true Triple Carter YFA and a 5970 Offenhauser intake manifold. There is 180 to 220 hp hiding there if you use a Clay Smith 264 cam and you can use some Vintage In Lines headers.

They really like an SN95 3.8 V6 T5 gearbox and an 8.8 "3.27:1 axle with some SN95 suspension parts, even four wheel disc brakes and five stud wheels. All of which are cheap.


Enjoy planning.....
 
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