Ford 170 six questions and thoughts

falcon_master

Well-known member
Hi everyone I know I've posted before but I'm kinda going back and forth. I have a 1964 falcon 2 door sedan with what appears to be a 170 six mated to a column shift 3 speed manual transmission. I am 16 and want to rebuild this car but I also want to able to have fun with and I'm worried that with only 100 hp gross so it's actually even less hp it's gonna be an absolute dog to drive. I don't want to run races or anything but I don't want to take all week to accelerate from a red light. I might be wrong but I hear that they don't like going past 50-60 which is ok but if I want to use the freeway or highways I don't want to keep the engine that high for that long. Is there any good option I don't have enough money for a small block ford swap and I really like inline engines I want to give this engine a shot so what do you guys think. Is this engine really that bad. Side note does anyone know another transmission that would bolt to a 170 because I'm worried when I hear the trans in mine is nicknamed the "paper three speed" thanks
 
HowdyFalcon Master:

Your quest reminds me of how we got started on the Handbook. A nephew bought a cherry '61 tudor with a 144 engine and three-on-the-tree. So yaw, you can maximize what you have with a few tools, a timing light and a vacuum gauge. Start with a good cleaning of the carb and distributor, making sure that the vacuum in the distributor is working properly and that the carb is clean. I'm thinking the '64 170s have a hot air automatic choke which are fine when clean and working as designed, CLEAN is the key word here. How long since the carb was rebuilt?

When all that is done, start by advancing the initial advance setting by 5 degrees over stock specs. Set the curb idle as low as possible when checking the current setting for a starting point. If, when the advance setting is increased, the idle speed increases, reset idle as low as possible.

Next tune the low speed air screw on the carb to achieve the highest idle speed. Again, if the idle increases reset to lowest possible idle speed.

On the non-syncro tranny, learn to double clutch when down shifting and best to not try for low gear until you are stopped. And always completely put the clutch pedal in all the way when shifting. Yes, these trannies are a little weak, but with a little care they can last.

Other no-brainer stuff; to make sure your tires are aired up to the max recommended psi. to make sure you are not carrying any extra weight around.

IF you can afford it get a spare pair of stock wheels and mount a set of taller tires on the rear for hiway driving. The taller tires give the effect of higher gearing.

Finally, give us some more details on your car. like your goals, engine condition, rear gear ratio, your intended uses, etc.

And most of all, keep it coming on what you try and what works for you. Good wishes.

Adios, David
 
Are you sure the transmission isn't a 3.03 toploader. My 64 Econoline came with a 3.03 toploader, it was the first year for it, in the Econoline at least. You're rear end ratio is going to dictate how high the rpm's are @ highway speeds. There should be a tag on one of the rear differential bolts that states what gear ratio the rearend is.
 
My two door wagon with a T5 and 3:55 gears still keeps picking up speed at 90 mph. The little 170 has more then you think, a few tweaks goes a long way.
 
Hi and welcome to website falcon master. I too have a 170 and threw around the idea if this motor is really worth it. I too like inline engines and think they're pretty cool, but having said that ill be the first to admit that a SBF would blow it out of the water pretty much every day of the week. If you want to just go fast get the car running and save your money then swap to V8. But if you want to just improve what you have there is a lot, and i mean a lot of info and idea available to make these little 6s scream. Triple single setups, 2 barrel adapters, different cams and distributors available rear end and transmission swaps, power adders. The real question here is as David asked what do you want to do with car? what is the end goal?
 
i also have a 64 falcon with the 170/3spd combination. it does ok getting up to speed, it generally stays up with traffic, but as noted it can be better. get the falcon six hand book and study it.

as for the trans, yes the 2.77 non syncho first gear trans is not the most durable of transmissions you can find. in fact i had one break on me in a 66 falcon with the 170. part of the problem is the second gear synchro, it tends to not get the lube it needs to run freely on the output shaft of the trans, and it will seize up and shed the teeth on the gear. its always fun when you feel the synchro tighten up and then hear the gear break into a dozen pieces. i was rather fortunate that the shrapnel didnt take the rest of the trans with it.

that said however, the 2.77 i have in my 64 is still in good shape overall, so it is hit or miss.

as for transmissions that you can use to replace the 2.77 with, you can try to find a C4 from behind a small six, look for any number 170/200 powered vehicles before 1979. after that you start to run into the C3 trans which for these engines isnt that good imo, mostly because the valve body programming was geared for maximum fuel economy.

if you want to stay with a manual trans, then the T5 is an excellent choice and easy enough to adapt with a variety of kits available on the market.

dont be afraid to ask questions here, lots of good information hiding in our minds.
 
Get the Falcon Performance Manual for ideas about all the options on increased performance. Is your 170 in good condition? One that I like is the T5 as tdlund pointed out. First you get a close ratio 4 speed and think how that will compare using first to second shifts and then the second to third scenarios in your day to day driving. And to sweeten the deal you get the od highway gear so you can comfortably cruise at 70. The column shift was one of the cool features of my Bronco and I hated to see it go but the three speed is just adequate enough to allow you to use the vehicle in my opinion.
And it is sound advice getting what you have in good working order.
 
Howdy Man,

I'm 19 and bought my 65 Falcon Ranchero last year. It's got a 200 though and the 3.03 column shift in it, 66 mustang 8" rear end.
As a side note, it's not as simple as dropping in a V8 with these cars. If you watch Fantomworks, he does an episode where they change a 65 or 66 mustang from a L6 to a 289 and you basically have to change everything. From the trans, to the suspension. Your paper trans will blow apart with a v8, your rear end will bite the dust. You'll need to upgrade your front end b/c of the extra weight. Brakes are a necessity so you'd have to go get either bigger drums all the way around or go disk front and drum rear or 4 disk. When you bought a v8 falcon, the setup is completely different than the L6, and not everything is bolt on switching. Also you'll need to reinforce the body a little since these don't have frames and ford had a great idea of putting a small torque plate above the trans to fix this, it ain't really enough. I'm not saying don't do it, I'm just saying it's not as easy as just drop in an 8.

Next up, the 170 can be driveable, it's like a slightly less powerful 200. For starters I recommend going to electronic ignition and getting it curved properly, there's a guy here named wsa111 he can hook you up.
Then is timing, best to do is to start at 10° initial, using a timing light, or go by vacuum method, use the method that someone else here said about turning idle down low.

Now what kind of carb do you have? If yours is an autolite 1100, take it off. By changing the distributor odds are you probably can't run the carb unless you block off the spark valve. I tried running one of these on the 200 and it didn't like it but I don't think I had the original distributor (loadomatic). You can possibly go to a Carter yf, Holley 1940 (make sure it doesn't have a spark valve since autolite made an identical one), or my fave a holley 1904. My 1904 is off a 52 F1 215 or 223, not sure. Or you can step it up big and do the weber 32/36 using an adapter, which vintageinlines.com sells. It's a 2 barrel carb that works progressively, meaning it runs on a single bore until you floor it, then the second one opens. I have a video on this, check YouTube for weber conversion for ford 200. It's basically the same thing but your jet sizes will be slightly smaller, probably 1 size or 2 sizes smaller. But then you'll need to rig a cable pedal setup rather your mechanical pedal setup, I'm still working on that. The mechanical works If you adapt it but it won't open up completely when floored, which is why the cable will be needed.

If you're scared of the trans failing then you could possibly switch In a 3.03 column shift out of a v8 but you'll need an adapter plate. Mine was already like this when I bought it. DON'T DO A FLOOR SHIFT OUT OF A MUSTANG, it won't fit right. You're shifter will be in the bench seat or in an awkward spot if you have buckets. Or go wild and do a t5 swap, 5 speed manual with a nice overdrive for highway; modern driveline has a whole kit for our L6 falcons. Or you could go for a c4 which will bolt right on but you'll have to modify or find a column shift steering column for an automatic (shouldn't be too hard)

The rear end, if stock sucks. Mine just quit, someone switched the original 7.5 Ranchero rear for a 7.25 falcon, why I don't know. These tend to chip teeth and break easily. Rebuild kits exist and have all the necessary gaskets and bearings but if it's anything like the pinion gear that has anything wrong with it you're toast, unless you find a donar from the auto wreckers or something. New pinion gears don't exist and nos are like hens teeth. Its best if you switch it for a ford 8", that's what I did. Although my gearing sucks, 2.8 on my 3 speed, I definitely don't have the probs i was havijng with the old one. If you get an 8" from a similar year mustang or falcon it'll be bolt in but you'll have to set pinion angle, don't forget that. The brakes will be bigger for the 8", you'll probably have 10" drums. Also at that point odds are you'll have 5 lug rear and 4 lug fronts, also my setup until i decide to do front disk. A 70 or 71 maverick I believe have 4 lug axles but the spring perches or something is off b/c it's wider. Also the driveshaft will need to be modified at the rear for the 8" yoke, any driveshaft shop can hook you up, it cost me $140 To get it cleaned, painted, balanced, and have the weld work done to it. These people like to see us younger guys keep these cars going to sometimes they give you breaks and deals, it's nice.

If you have any questions or anything pm me or respond to the message. I'm still learning about all this (I went into this 1 year ago with almost 0 car knowledge) and I had to start by replacing every part of my brake system. You'll learn with time as I have. You could possibly look into getting the Falcon performance book, its roughly $25-$30 depe ding where you look, but it's gonna say similar things to what I've said but it gets into more detail like engine mods too. It's cheaper to do the outside stuff since engine stuff gets pricy fast.

These were made to run forever man, as i was once told, if you have faith in that engine, it will not fail you. It may not be a 428 cobra jet, but it gets down the road nicely and with decent mileage.
 
thanks so much everyone for your info. my falcon has a 7.25" rear end with 3.10:1 gear. my goals for the car is I want to be a reliable somewhat fuel efficient daily driver that will take me to school or the store and keep up with traffic. fuel efficiency is a big reason I want to keep the six and not drop in a SBF.I just don't want to have to worry that if I want to get to school I might get stranded on the side of the road messing with a carb and then smelling like gas. don't get me wrong I LOVE classic ford cars and engines but I just want to trust mine. here are some pics of the engine and the car I still a lot of restoration to do. (I know the engine cover is blue but the casting code says its a 170)

 
no pic came thru FM.
All these vehicles R not gas misers - 20 is a nice MPG...
8^0
 
Lots of good info from StarDiero75 and it is really good to see some younger guys taking an interest in these unique and fun vehicles. Glad you guys are here.
Yeah for a t5 you will need a different rear axle ratio and several members have made this modification with good results but it will take some work and money. I bring up the t5 often because going to a 5 speed in my Bronco made a big improvement in how it drives.
 
Howdy Back Falcon Master:

Aah, that helps. Do you have any idea on what your budget might be, beyond gas and oil changes?

Most of us do upgrades and changes as we can afford them. So changes are often not maximized. Be realistic. For example a good tune up including points and condenser, distributor cap and new spark plugs and plug wired will run close to $100. A carb rebuild kit will cost about $75 not including cleaners.

Again, IIWIYS- from looking at your photos, I'd set out to clean the engine and engine bay first. Next, I'd be cleaning the carb, inside and out. Aside from a carb rebuild, you can do a fair job with and aerosol carb cleaner. Since you have a manual choke that will eliminate the hot air choke contamination. Spray down the inside and out. Don't be surprised if the engine stumbles a bit after spraying the inerds. It will clear up with a little running. Next put a can of fuel system cleaner in the gas tank the next time you fill up.

How does it currently run? Any misses at all? How long have you owned it? How often is the oil and filter changed? Any valve clatter or other engine noises?

FYI- '64 was a change over year for going to hydraulic lifters and cam. Most likely, your engine will have adjustable rocker arms. Use a good quality high detergent engine oil and filter at your next change interval.

Make safety a high priority as you assess your car. Things like seat belts were not standard one '64 Falcons. For your safety consider them essential. Make the tires and brakes a high priority as well.

Enjoy your new, old bird and keep the questions and your plans and progresses coming.

Adios, David
 
I got it about 8 months ago but with school I have not gotten round to rebuilding it yet. I don't know if it runs it did when parked just fine. I changed the oil put some more oil in the cyl and can turn the engine freely. I haven't checked spark yet as I haven't gotten an new battery yet. My budget is somewhere in about the $1,000 (I know it's low buts it's all I can spare) range to make it run and drive. Im not to worried about time because I have a daily driver car already. Thanks everyone for the help. So I have a question since my engine block code says it's a 64 does that mean it was manufactured in 64 or it's a 64 model year. I ask this because I want to know what kind of internals it has. Thanks
 
Howdy Again:

Aha! First get it running and begin your assessment from there. A $1,000 budget is a good place to start. That means to start by assessing what you currently have; engine,trans and rear end. Then brakes, tires and steering. Once you can confirm that the car is safe then start planning a comprehensive approach to reach your goal of a reliable, safe, economical driver. The Handbook lists several levels of up grades ranging in cost and complexity. Mostly consider them as planning possibilities.

While it is fun to think of the high dollar, "ou wow", pieces it is not consistent with your stated goals.

Get it running and assess from there. Then start planning. Good luck and keep it coming.

Adios, David
 
Whenever someone who's new to these engines get a 50 year old car I suggest to verify 100% what is actually in there. Sometimes people think they have a 170 and it's a 200, or a 144 and it's a 170 ect. The block code is on the driver's side of the block near the oil sender, the head code is on the intake runner. The factory stamp that differentiates a 144 from a 170 is a T in a circle stamped into top the road draft tube boss on the drivers side front top of the block. A 200 will have 5 freeze plugs on the passenger's side and the 170/144 will have 3.

The main point of concern for you, if it's a 170, is whether or not it has the 1/4" distributor oil pump drive or the later 5/16" oil pump drive. That will determine how easy it's going to be to swap the carb and distributor out for a DSII ignition system and 70's style carb. Other than that and whether it is a solid lifter or hydraulic lifter engine, your 170 with have the same internal specs as all 170's, 4 main bearings. If in fact it has a 1/4" pump drive you could save alot of money and just tune up what you have, convert the dist to pertronix, rebuild the carb or find a good replacement and rebuild that. Tune up, exhaust repairs, brakes etc. Shouldn't cost you much if you don't have to tear the engine down. Otherwise, if it were me, I'd take that $1k and keep my eye peeled for a 200 pull out of a mustang, fairmont at a yard or whatever, you should be able to find one for $500 or well less. In the long run it's a better route than sinking a lot of money into an early 170 imo. A lot of times they will come married to a C4 as well.

The 170 is a stout engine and will run practically forever if even minimally maintained. The 170 I pulled from my van had been driven all over the west for 20 years, mountains etc, by the previous owner and was still going strong, even all gunked up inside. He had the head rebuilt once after he over heated it badly. Carb rebuilds ect, that's about it.
 
:unsure: Falcon Master, in answer to your question on the engines Casting / Design numbers. Ie the year of Manufacture of the engine in relation to that code yes in many cases ths would be true, however it's not always. Ford often used up its existing parts supply before they started using the next year model or the new improved design parts. The year model production line change over being around second to last week of July, back in the day this was in order for a supply of the new models to be at the nations Ford Dealer's, in innovatory and on the Show Room floor by the second week of Sept. As an example a very early production 1964 Falcon would have been built in 1963 during end of month of July, the month of Aug., or first week Sept.

Casting numbers can be decoded to tell you the Model Year the part was "Originally Designed" for, also the Ford car line it was designed for, plus the parts ID number.
Example C4DE-6015-A
C = 1960
4 = 1964,
D = Falcon
E = Engine Group,
6015 = Engine Block.
Letters after this number will tell you if the part was improved beyond its orginal design and how many times,
-A = orginal or first design.

To know the actual year and the day that the part was made at the Ford engine foundry look for the Date Code. It looks like a small metal tag with a screw head on each end it has two or three numbers and a letter on it. Example 4B23 = Feb. 23, 1964 or 3H1= Aug. 1, 1963.

Also from your cars Vin code and if your car still has its orginal door tag you can decode these to find out most of the history of where and when your car was built, plus it's trim level, color, etc. Good luck in your Falcon repairs :nod:
 
For $1000, you can get a decent amount of stuff done. I replaced the entire brake system and bearings for about $400. That included new lines, master cylinder, wheel cylinders, shoes, front and rear bearings and seals, and t valve at the MC since I cross threaded mine.

A carb kit for that autolite 1100 is $20-$30 For just gaskets and stuff but Mike's Carburetors has an entire kit for $70 which comes with a new float and other good stuff. Grab some Berrymans carb cleaner for about $30 and go to town cleaning the carb.

Plugs, points, wires, rotor cap, distributor cap, will probably be $70-$100 depending on the quality of stuff you buy.

If you want to try the pertronix ignition setup I think they're about $100 and aren't too hard to set up. Since I went with the HEI I don't know about setting those up but it should be similar.

So at this point we're around $660. If you've changed the oil I'd recommend a coolant flush as well since old radiator fluid becomes acidic and will eat through seals. The coolant I think is $20-$30 and new hoses and all will be about $60. Probably a thermostat change wouldn't 've bad if you've gone this far, they're $10, opt for the 180°, everywhere says it's the best including the Falcon performance manual.

So $770.
I'll guarantee you the rear end fluid has never been changed, and while you're getting fluid you should change the transmission fluid too. I believe I put Lucas 90w-something. I use that for both rear end tranny. That'll be about 4-5 quarts so $40-$50.

$820 now.
If you're not changing the solenoid right now, keep an extra in the car until the old one dies, you won't regret this when you're in the Costco Parking lot 40 miles from home (that was a fun day). They're about $20, buy a good one too, like one with a lifetime warranty they're usually $20-$30 depending where you go.

$850
A good battery is about $100-$130.

$980. Now something else has probably sparked your attention and thats where the rest will go.

$1000 Will go a long way if you spend it right. Make sure not to buy cheap parts b/c usually you'll regret it on the side of the road plus there's other stuff you can do for free like drop the gas tank and wash it out or other stuff like that.

I hope this helps, I was just going through what I did in basics when I got the Ranchero.

Good luck man!

Ryan
 
And some rust mort and a can of rustoleum. You have some rust on the sheetmetal braces. May as well stop some of it now.
 
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