170 ac questions

Hi everyone thanks for all the info in the last discussion. I have gotten alot of important info to start planning for my rebuild (I'll put another discussion up just for the rebuild and it's status). I decided I want a nice capable daily drive with good economy but part of that is comfort and no one me included wants to drive in AZ heat with no AC system. I don't know cause this engine makes so little power if sticking AC on it will really make it an absolute dog. And thats not even worrying about the $ of an ac system. I have one for an old Cleveland v8 but I don't know if that means it'll work with mine. and will the extra load on the engine make overheating a possibility cause when I'd be using it well br talking 80-90° but as high as 100-115° sometimes in summer thanks everyone I look forward to learning lots from you guys during my rebuild. P.S I am ordering a falcon performance handbook!!!

AC will use enough hp that you will notice it. I don't know if Ford ever offered the 170 with AC but I know what it is like to drive when it is over 100 with no AC. Contact Vintage Air and see what they offer.

Find a 200, for the AC. It'll make up the difference. If you are in for a rebuild, you are far off from a swap. As for overheating, with a new engine and a good radiator, it won't be a problem.

I love the York A/C unit. A 351C or 351W or 351M or 400 Ford York will work JUST fine.

They suck up a lot of power, but guess what the old 74-79 Ford 2.8 V6's ran? York or Tecumsah twin piston A/C unit. And the 2.8 136 hp Mercedes Benze 280E.

A four bearing 171 cubic inch 2793 cc "2.8 V6" Capri, Pinto, Mustang II, Fox Stang or Capri or Ranger or AeroStar engine was born as a 135 hp engine in Europe, and than came to the USA from 1974 to 1984. It made 93 to 114 hp net as a US import engine, and almost always had a York or Denso or Sanden A/C unit on it.

Specs for the US 170 are 2785 cc

Net hp was only 83, despite 105 or 100 gross claimed.

It has a 3.5 bore, 2.94" stroke verses the 3.66 by 2.7" of the German V6.

The only thing bad about a 170 is


1. its lack of a free breathing head and

2. that it never got a nice big 1.08 2-bbl Ford 4.2 or 5.0 V8 carb like the 109 to 114 hp engines ran from 1979 to 1984.

3. Its lacking a Duraspark II electronic ignition

4. Its lacking a 276 degree cam with 370 thou lift


5. If automatic, its lacking a high stall 2200 epm converter like all the 1974 to 1984 C3/c4 or C5 transmissioned German V6's ran. Bronco II's ran a non lock-up C5 transmission in a C4 truck case. All the blue colored 3.3 engines C4 gearbox will fit your 170.

So do the 1 to 5 mods.


So get a later big log head, plane it 90 thou, and track down an old used 22 to 26 thou 200 Ford D8 head gasket

Add a 2150 Motorcraft 1.08" venturi carb with Crosley's or Wsa111's brasied up direct mount 2-bbl conversion, and place the carb the right way around using cr_bobcat's Lockar cable Linkage

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Get someone to machine down the Duraspark II haft to fit the early 170 drive.

Add a modern wide lobe center 264 Clay Smith or similar Schnider or Howards cam with a lot more lift.

Add a proper Vintage Inlines header or later model 1980-1983 B or X code exhast header.


For transmission, you've got any number of options, but I've loved my little C3 junkayard transmissions, and you can have the C4 torque converter re profiled to suit if you use the Pinto 2 liter optional high stall units.


Whammo! you'll be making 135 horsepower, 155 lb-ft of torque on a 8.7:1 compression ratio and you'll be able to run a Sanden A/C unit like RickWrench's


All the Emissions era 2.8 liter engines, even over head valve, were easliy able to make an A/C unit work. The old Pinto 2.8 had a high restriction exhasut, and a 5200 Holley Weber carb which lost 16 hp over the same years Z code Mustang or Capri.

Even with 109 hp, those Mustang 2.8 Automatics were able to run away and hide from any 85 to 94.5 hp 3.3 1979-1982 Mustang.

Thanks for the info but as for a 200 swap would it be easier to just bore it to a 200. I know the first 200s used 4 mains and then I get oversize piston and rings and slap a 200 head on it. I guess at that point I might as well just get a 200 but I want to save all my pennies and if my 170 can run ac and still move the car somewhat decent the worst I see is I basically have the performance of a 144 when ac is running but correct me if I'm wrong

falcon_master":10ykdhve said:

Thanks for the info but as for a 200 swap would it be easier to just bore it to a 200. I know the first 200s used 4 mains and then I get oversize piston and rings and slap a 200 head on it. I guess at that point I might as well just get a 200 but I want to save all my pennies and if my 170 can run ac and still move the car somewhat decent the worst I see is I basically have the performance of a 144 when ac is running but correct me if I'm wrong

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No sadly you can't bore out the 3.500 bore 170 block that far to match the 200's blocks 3.680 bore. What you can do though if you could find one of the early four main 200 crankshafts for your rebuild. That four main 200 crank is a direct drop into your 170 block and would turn it into a 181 Cubic Inch six and that would also give you a bit more torque and power. As to installing the AC on your 170 look for the compressor mounting brackets off a 200 or make them then you can bolt on your 351 compressor and use many of the other parts too. Good luck on your build

Well thanks for the info. I'll take a look to see if I can find one if any of you know where one is please let me know but I'll keep an eye on eBay and Craigslist. And was my prediction about my 170 behaving like a 144 on ac somewhat accurate I just want a rough estimate because in our "cemetery of old cars my step dad collected" we have alot of other cars with many small blocks. And ac is a must for me and if it's gonna cost to much I might have to look into taking that Cleveland from a ranchero or a Windsor. I know it'll cost money to make it fit and rebuild it but I don't know. I want to stay inline but my parents are requiring ac and possibly even power steering which I argued on but at the least I need ac and with all these things I would have to pour alot of money into the six for it when for about the same amount I can drop one of the many v8s in my car that can handle the accessories. But I know if I do drop a clevo in it I would probably have to reinforce the frame for the power it'll put out so any help with this topic is much obliged thanks

falcon_master":1objdtdd said:

Well thanks for the info. I'll take a look to see if I can find one if any of you know where one is please let me know but I'll keep an eye on eBay and Craigslist. And was my prediction about my 170 behaving like a 144 on ac somewhat accurate I just want a rough estimate because in our "cemetery of old cars my step dad collected" we have alot of other cars with many small blocks. And ac is a must for me and if it's gonna cost to much I might have to look into taking that Cleveland from a ranchero or a Windsor. I know it'll cost money to make it fit and rebuild it but I don't know. I want to stay inline but my parents are requiring ac and possibly even power steering which I argued on but at the least I need ac and with all these things I would have to pour alot of money into the six for it when for about the same amount I can drop one of the many v8s in my car that can handle the accessories. But I know if I do drop a clevo in it I would probably have to reinforce the frame for the power it'll put out so any help with this topic is much obliged thanks

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170 feeling like a 144 with AC on. That's a question I can't answer though I am sure that many aftermarket (under dash units) AC kits were installed on both the 144's and 170's. I did once have a stock 65 Falcon (Fordoor Sedan) with 200, auto, and aftermarket AC Kit, it ran good with the AC on. I think a 170 in good condistion would be fine on the freeway (flat ground) with AC running it might not be so good when climbing a steap hill. I also used to have a 63 Fairlane with a 351C and top loader four speed was a fun car at the drag strip, but it didn't handle or stop very well on the street. Was a major job to fit the 351C into the Fairline would be even worse fitting anything bigger than a 289 or 302 in your early Falcon. Good luck

Ok thanks for the info I have one more question. Where would I find the casting code for the cyl.head. On the exhaust manifold I found the code C3DE-9430 A. I know that mans it is a 1963 intake manifold on my 64 170 block which I understand the engine is 50 years old so it's not gonna be all original. I ask this because I want to know all the internals I have like if I have mechanical or hydraulic tappets and if I have a 4 main or 7 main and stuff like that. I know it's very little info to go off of its just this is not the original engine because the warranty plate on the door says it should have a 144 but the block code on the engine C4DE identified my engine as a 170. It's weird cause it has blue valve cover. But I guess the only way to bear certain is to take it apart or drop the oil pan and take a look at the crank and stuff like that thanks everyone.

falcon_master":34f5m4hm said:

Ok thanks for the info I have one more question. Where would I find the casting code for the cyl.head?

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It's on the intake aft of the carburetor.

Well if you have a large number of v8 cars maybe one of them already with ac could be used for the May to September months and the Falcon for the other months. May be cheaper and way easier.

falcon_master":28x8dluo said:

Ok thanks for the info I have one more question. Where would I find the casting code for the cyl.head. On the exhaust manifold I found the code C3DE-9430 A. I know that mans it is a 1963 intake manifold on my 64 170 block which I understand the engine is 50 years old so it's not gonna be all original. I ask this because I want to know all the internals I have like if I have mechanical or hydraulic tappets and if I have a 4 main or 7 main and stuff like that. I know it's very little info to go off of its just this is not the original engine because the warranty plate on the door says it should have a 144 but the block code on the engine C4DE identified my engine as a 170. It's weird cause it has blue valve cover. But I guess the only way to bear certain is to take it apart or drop the oil pan and take a look at the crank and stuff like that thanks everyone.

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First thing you should check is for the block code on the right front of engine below head deck. A 144 will have 3 freeze plugs, four mains, and an N code stamped on the block above the road draft tube, all 144's also had solid lifter cams 1964 was last year of the 144's. The 170's first came out in 1961, a 170 block will have 3 freeze plugs, plus all 170 engines will have 4 mains, and a T code or in the case of 1964's up will have no Code some early engines have a solid lifter cams, from 1964 up most will have hydrolic lifter cams. A 1964 200 (it was first used in the Fairlane models) and has three freeze plugs, 4 mains, and a hydrolic lifter cam the block likely won't have a code stamped on it. Sometime during 1964 model year Ford didn't stamp the blocks anymore and started using a metal tag with the engines info on it. To make it even more confusing the cars Vin. Code to ID the engine (i.e. S for a 144, U for a 170, and T for a 200) is also different from those stamped on the early blocks and of corse if there's been an engine swap then you can't rely on that code either. In 1965 the 200 block was totally redesigned with 7 mains and 5 freeze plugs. Good luck Edited

I believe they stopped using the 144 in 63, if yours is a 64 then that is really weird that it should be a 144 car.

yes, 1st job after (B4?) buying 1 of these vehicles is to ID block and head, rear end, transmish, carb, etc - due to age (any component can B changed out thru the yrs of ownership / yrs on this earth).

Where are you in AZ? I'm putting a Vintage Air system on my 63 wagon. No AC in AZ is no bueno.