Hardened valve seats necessary?

falcon_master

Well-known member
Hi everyone I just had a question regarding valve seats. Is my 64 170 that I would use as a daily driver on normal unleaded gas with no additives going to need hardened valve seats. I know the lead in old gas used to coat the seats and cushion it or something like that but I don't know I don't want to destroy my engine or burn a valve or I don't know if it's possible from valve seats but drop a valve into the chamber from it always getting hammered. It's not gonna be towing things often or gonna be worked hard just about about 100-150 miles a week
 
Yes install the hardened exhaust valve seats. Years ago Amoco had unleaded fuel. It burned clean, but the exhaust valves were badly reassessed.
 
I'm not running with them. My machinist told me with a 69 Ford head it wasn't needed in his opinion, something to do with high nickle iron and GM heads alway need them etc. But I plan to swap the head in the future so that was part of my reasoning.
 
But this fellow has a 64 head. If you install larger valves in a later head you might machine beyond the induction hardness??
 
Howdy Back Falcon Master:

If you are planning to do extended highway driving hardened seats are a good idea. In the old days (circa 1964) folks with a '64 falcon would plan on a valve job very 60,000 miles or so, or 80,000 or 100,000- depending on driving habits. That was with leaded gas. My point is that valve and seat deterioration happens. IIWIYS, I'd keep a good tune on the old bird while I saved my money and while I looked for a late model cylinder head with hardened seats from the factory. Once you find that new (old) head get a fresh valve job on it. When you need it you'll be ready.

Are you currently experiencing any of the symptom of leaking valves? Keep it coming.

Adios, David
 
Thanks for the info. The last time I visited and took a look it has almost no compression. I'm able to turn it by hand with spark plugs in. I still haven't fired it up yet so I'm not one hundred percent sure but there's something leaking because it does not feel like there's any compression.
 
The odds that the car has already had the change In valve seats is pretty high I think. As long as it hasn't been abandoned since the mid-late 70's I'm sure someone else has already done it. If they haven't been changed they're probably already burnt up, I'm guessing. The gas changed about 40 years ago so I'm hoping that someone has probably done that in that time man.

Good luck,
Ryan
 
Well thanks. The tag on the plate says june 2010 so it's en educated guess it's been off the road for at least 6-7 years. But I have no idea on if it was actually ever driven before the only backstory I know is the original owner lost the car for financial reasons and some other family got it and let it sit for a while and then made it run and sold it to another person whom my step dad bought it from being told "it ran when parked" and then it sat on our property until now
 
falcon_master":fbl24zir said:
Well thanks. The tag on the plate says june 2010 so it's en educated guess it's been off the road for at least 6-7 years. But I have no idea on if it was actually ever driven before the only backstory I know is the original owner lost the car for financial reasons and some other family got it and let it sit for a while and then made it run and sold it to another person whom my step dad bought it from being told "it ran when parked" and then it sat on our property until now

At least your plate is that new, my Studebaker Lark was last registered in 2002, I was told it hadn't been driven In 4 years, not 15 years lol. It's got the first year OHV 6 cylinder for Studebaker. It didn't run when I bought it but all I needed was a fuel pump and the carb cleaned out, then started right up. But there are other issues like the clutch being toast as well as the brakes.
I know the situation you're in, but at least your engine doesn't usually have structural probs, my Lark OHV 6 tends to crack heads due to the valves being so close together.
But also know that your engine, as well as my Ranchero engine, were made for 20+ years so parts are easy to come by. Most auto wreckers have them since no one usually wants a 200 or 170, and if not the wreckers then Craigslist. Even if it is a cracked head, at worst, one from the AW might be $100, If that, then just transfer the parts to the new one or have it gone through, my NAPA shop was going to do another one I have for $400 or so. Then at that point it's just slapping it back on and adjusting the rockers, which isn't hard at all, a little time consuming though.
I plan on rebuilding this spare 200 I have but I haven't started it yet, it's just disassembled. If you need pictures of the inside of it or anything for reference, just ask man. Preferably PM me so I get it directly.

Good luck,
Ryan
 
"...The tag on the plate says june 2010 so it's en educated guess …"
I'd wanna know what "a standard rebuild" included at the time to answ the Q about if the seats were hardened.

I thought we had this 'hardened seats needed?" Q around here at least once. May B use the search function here?
My understanding was 'not needed'. It's important to me due to intended future use...
 
My understanding is that the early 'hardened seats' were simply flame hardened around the casting where the valves seat. My commercially rebuilt head had hardened RINGS pressed in place where the valves seat. My son had a rebuilt engine with so-called hardened seats where the valves actually retreated into the heads in only months. And this rebuild was about five years ago. They ended up replacing the heads.

There is hardened and hardened. My suggestion is that you get the head rebuilt with real pressed in place hardened seats.
 
K,
good info, let's hear more
/OR/
should I follow my own suggestion'n check w/ 'Mr. Search' (function)...
- -Chad
BTW: too late @ this juncture, didn't get em (I think) & am still @ the "Drop this new engine in" stage. It's been machined & returned for our reassembly. Just pulled the old 1, repainted engine bay & am ready for 'drop-in".
 
If you search 'hardened valve seats' you will find me giving the exact same advice.

If you do drop the new engine in, and it is one you order, you can ask for the press-in hardened seats because they have to rebuild the head and do a run in before you get it. Mine came in a bag, dropped at my house and they hauled the old one away. It was an engine rebuilder on Crenshaw, in LA. Not South Central but LA nevertheless. Short block with new crank bearings, rings (I gotta believe), valves ground, stock camshaft, everything oiled and run in. I had to supply the tin, the dizzy, the carb and everything electric/electronic. They gave me a bag of seals for all the parts not already on the block. There was a rope and rubber seal for the shaft where it came out of the pan. I musta done it right because there was never an leaks. O-rings for the oil pump shaft. All that stuff. The most amazing part was that I didn't have anything left over once I got it running.

If it's a salvage engine from pick n' pull, I'm sure you are not going to just drop it in the bay. **Somebody** will do a freshen-up on it. And that would include the head with real modern valve seats.
 
I'm sure you are right. At all odds, they are just a hardened margin of the casting.
 
Low/no compression on a engine that hasn't ran in years is not unusual. It sounds like you haven't even run it yet??
If that is the case I'd dump a bit of gas down the carburetor and try starting it. Running non hardened valve seats on unleaded gas is not instant death. If the car runs good, I'd drive it, and follow CZLN6's advice and find/rebuild a later head that comes with hardened valve seats for a head swap when/if you have problems.
 
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