how much to mill the 200 ci head for new gasket materials and performance?

cobra5laddict

New member
Hey guys, been reading a lot for the past few days and love the info and passion for the old ford sixes. I have a 66 200 6 cyl in my wife's mustang. the engine is original low miles (50k) I'm going through it and was able to get away with a hone and re-ring. i'm taking The head to the machine shop to get hardened seats and guides if it needs it. I also ordered a very mild cam from Jerry at Schneider cams. my main question is how much should i tell the machine shop to take off the head when the mill it? I live at 6k ft elevation and i will be keeping the c4 auto. At the very least i want to get back to stock compression (.025 difference in old gaskets to todays gaskets from what i have read). should i have them take a little more since its essentially free to have him do so?

thanks!
 
At your elevation you could go up to a 9.0 to as much as 9.5 to 1 C.R. depending on the fuel grade you want to run and what other mods you plan. Such as ignistion system and carberation. Best way to get there though is to deck your block .019 or so that its zero decked, then adjust the heads combustion chambers for the rest. Good luck on your build. :nod:
 
Howdy Back Cobra:

And welcome to The Forum. You didn't say which gasket you wil be using but most likely a FelPro or Victor, in which case a .025" mill cut is needed to compensate for the new gasket. Next, the specs for your new cam will determine a safe range for your CR goal. An elevation of 6,000 ft is going to be begging for as much CR as can be accomodated. I would not hesitate to recommend another .025" for a total cut of .050". That will get you back to an honest 9.2:1 CR and still run regular gas. (What is the octane rating of regular gas in your area?) Depending on the duration of your new cam you may be able to tolerate more.

I'd also recommend that you specify at least a three angle valve job and a back-cut on the intake valves. Inexpensive to do while the head work is being done and worthwhile performance wise. three angle valve cuts are pretty much standard on most valve jobs but the back cut will have to be requested and extra, but not usually very expensive.

If you have future plans to ever go to a bigger one barrel have the carb inlet hole increased to 1.75". It will not effect your stock carb, carb adaptor or linkage, but will have you one step closer if you ever decide to go to a bigger carb. It shouldn't add too much to the cost of the head work.

Other thoughts; What are your plans for your ignition? Whatever you decide plan on more initial advance. Updating to a DuraSpark II system with a recurve of the advance to your specs would be a nice upgrade. And, upgrading your exhaust system with 2" pipes and a turbo type muffler to match is worth considering. It is cost effective when your car need exhaust system work.

Sounds like a great project. Keep us posted on your choices and your progress. And, again, welcome to The Forum.

Adios, David
 
thank you for the info!

The short block is already assembled so i'd rather not cut the deck down on the block if i can at all avoid it.
-head gasket is whatever comes supplied in the felpro full gasket kit
-I talked with Jerry at Schneider cams and let him know my plans of a near stock build with little improvements to overcome my altitude. He suggested his 248/256h. lobe separation is 110. If i remember right its .398 /.405 lift? (i will have to double check my cam card)
-I will have the head shop 30* back cut the intake valves if the cost is minimal.
- highest octane available here is 91
 
to answer the "other upgrades" question...

My hope is to keep nearly 100% stock appearance. meaning id like to keep the original air cleaner assembly autolite 1100 carb and small cap type distributor. Will i be able to keep the load-o-matic if properly rebuilt?
 
Well sure you can keep the all the stock Autolite carb and LOD Distribitor, but it won't be optimal though it can work. Now if your goal is that it only needs to look stock then that can be done with a better carb like an Autolite 1101 or a Carter YF etc. This would allow you to keep the stock Air Cleaner with the 1101 and at the most for the Carter YF a slight mod of the AC base. For the Distribitor a DuraSpark II ignistion system swaps right in too, and for keeping the small cap look the DuraSpark I cap fits right on. Only an expert could ever tell the differance between an old LOD Distribitor and the DSII. Good luck on your build. (y) :nod:
 
Howdy Cobra and All:

Your intent to keep the engine stock in appearance is doable, but it will limit potential performance. At the least you should make sure that your LoM distributors vacuum advance system is function as designed. And also consider an upgrade to a PetroniX Ignitor system to replace the stock point system. For a more robust spark consider the Petronix Flame Thrower coil. And dial in as much initial advance as your situation can tolerate.

FYI- your carb with it's Spark Control Valve (SCV) and the LoM (vacuum advance only) advance are linked and operate together. If you change one the other will not work as designed.

The Autolite 1101 carbs from '63 and '64 Fords with the 223 six has a SCV and will work with your stock distributor. It is rated at 210 cfm. Your stock 1100 is rated at 185 cfm. The 1101 is undistinguishable from your 1100. Linkage, fuel line and air cleaner are the same. The only difference (other than cfm) is the throttle bore size. That's why I recommended that you have the carb inlet hole bored out to 1.75" while the head is off.

The earliest DuraSpark ignition system have a small cap. The system includes the distributor, module, (Which is mounted on the inner fender) coil and spark plug wires. The advantage of the DuraSpark distributor is that it incorporates both centrifugal and vacuum advance. And the advance curve can be tailored to your exact circumstances. The down side is that it is not compatible with your stock Autolite 1100 carb. An Autolite 1101 from a '69 Mustang with a 250 engine would be compatible. This combo would be stock appearing to all but the most decerning eye. It's something to consider.

Just know that the cam and compression of your new engine will be begging for more- more cfm and a more exacting ignition.

Please keep us posted on your choices and your progress.

Adios, David
 
Well i dropped the head off at the machine shop and instructed him to mill .050 off the head. i also asked for the intake valve back cut (he called this a competition valve job).

at this point with my budget i need to try and use the stock distributor and carb for at least a year to recoup some funds for phase #2.

below is an image of the cam card supplied with my cam.
camcard_zps1vw0m9hv.jpg
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Howdy Back Cobra:

I sure understand the budget. I'll be waiting anxiously to hear how the engine works out. Oh, I can't believe I forgot to ask what transmission is in the car?

Christmas is coming. Add a PetroniX IgniterI to your Santa list. It will run about $70. Next plan to add the PetroniX Flamethrower coil. I did the jig saw approach to my 1st engine too. Just have a plan to begin with so you won't be spending money that does'nt fit the plan.

Adios, David
 
Hi gents and happy new year. So I got my head back from the machine shop and I am ready to install.

I have a couple quick questions
#1 do I need to install any shims under the rocker shaft pedestals to compensate for the .050 taken off the head or will that variance be taken up with the lifters? (My rational to not bother since it's really only cut .025 more than stock since my new head gasket is so thick)

#2 do I need to install any washers under the head bolts? Again to compensate for the milling.

Cheers!
 
Howdy Back Cobra:

Good to hear about your progress.

Q- #1 do I need to install any shims under the rocker shaft pedestals to compensate for the .050 taken off the head or will that variance be taken up with the lifters? (My rational to not bother since it's really only cut .025 more than stock since my new head gasket is so thick)

A- No. The hydraulic lifters will easily compensate for the difference.

Q- #2 do I need to install any washers under the head bolts? Again to compensate for the milling.

A- Most likely, No, but but check to make sure that the bolt hole bottoms are cleaned out and that the bolts don't bottom out in the bolt holes. Steel washers are a good idea in any case as they distribute the load more evenly and lessen friction as the bolts are torqued to specifications.

I know you are currently planning to use your stock carb and distributor, but did you enlarge the carb hole, just in case you decide to step up the carb size in the future?

Keep us posted on your progress.

Adios, David
 
I have enjoyed reading about your 66 Mustang and 200 performance mods. I understand budgetary constraints that is for sure. I can't help but notice that having a copy of the Falcon Performance Handbook would provide information useful for planning to achieve your goals. It is a valuable resource for all Ford six owners for maintenance and performance activities and is very reasonable in cost. Of course these forum members look forward to questions and helping any way they can and they have the knowledge.
 
Hi, if you can go for ARP head bolts and washers you will not be disappointed. They are so much nicer than stock. Good luck
 
guys, I'm back in the garage and making progress. I have the long block assembled, painted and its waiting for the oil pan (the drain plug was previously cross threaded). I'm now focusing my attention on the distributor and the coil. as suggested in posts above i found some $$ to buy the pertronix points conversion part number #1266 and the base coil #40511. Their website shows that this coil is 3 ohm. Does that sound right for a stock installation on my 66' stang? i talked to their tech support on the part numbers and this is what the recommend. I believe i am going to order through Amazon to save a few bucks.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000N ... GV5D&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0019 ... 0DER&psc=1

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/ ... jv1hgm.jpg



Im keeping the load-o-matic distributor and stock carb for now and i will have to make due
 
Howdy Back:

Nice looking long block. Do yourself a favor and clean the blue paint off of the timing tap. Clean it good and paint it silver to make it easier to read under the timing light. Just a thought when it comes time to do the final tuning of the initial advance.

Keep it coming.

Adios, David
 
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