Rocker Arms

K

kaiser

New member
Hello all!!!

I hope you all are doing the best with their six! hehehe

Do any of you adapted the stud or pedestal rocker arms in 1.6 or 1.7 from a 302 or 351 ford engine, that with a machined spacer bolted on the original pedestal of our Stock Adjustable Rocker Assembly?

I think is very doable (with good measurements and changing the oiling system througt lifters and so...) but i want some insight about it.

I thinking in the next rockers:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/291747788471?s ... 1436.l2649

https://www.ebay.com/itm/390899536217?s ... 1436.l2649

I also will do the 2v mod, pocket porting, biger valves and and have the 264 Claysmith cam.


Thank you ind advance and excuse the grammar please :p!!!
 
Mount the rocker assembly on a bar to the pedestal mounts? Sounds interesting.
 
Econoline":353i7kr6 said:
Mount the rocker assembly on a bar to the pedestal mounts? Sounds interesting.
Click to expand...

Hi Econoline,

Yes i think so, and maybe is pretty easy but i want some insight before trying it :p
 
:unsure: Though it's an interesting idea the question I have to ask you is WHY, would you even go through that amount of work that's nessisary and likely at a higher cost unless you have the skill and machinery to do this type of conversion? But for the record the Enginering of a shaft mounted Rocker system is a far superior and a much more stable system at high RPM's then any stud mounted Rocker system even if it also includes a "Stud Girdle". If its because you would like to have the advantage of the Aluminum full Roller Rockers then you can still get those too without all that much work (check out the Yella-Terra Roller Rockers setup see below link) that are made to bolt to the heads stock shaft mounts. Good luck on your build (y) :nod:

https://www.vintageinlines.com/product- ... rocker-set
 
Hi Bubba, thank you for all your feedback.

bubba22349":vs8t007m said:
:unsure: Though it's an interesting idea the question I have to ask you is WHY, would you even go through that amount of work that's nessisary and likely at a higher cost unless you have the skill and machinery to do this type of conversion? But for the record the Enginering of a shaft mounted Rocker system is a far superior and a much more stable system at high RPM's then any stud mounted Rocker system even if it also includes a "Stud Girdle".
Click to expand...

I want to have a little higher relation 1.65 or 1.7:1, maybe is a lot of work but I'll be doing all by my selft (I'll be learning a lot, I have a couple of heads avaiable so I can mess with things a bit :p), I'll doing with the 2v conversion, biger valves and porting too.

bubba22349":vs8t007m said:
If its because you would like to have the advantage of the Aluminum full Roller Rockers then you can still get those too without all that much work (check out the Yella-Terra Roller Rockers setup see below link) that are made to bolt to the heads stock shaft mounts. Good luck on your build (y) :nod:
https://www.vintageinlines.com/product- ... rocker-set
Click to expand...

As i see Yella-Terra are so expensive and not wortly for my setup, maybe if i can have the aluminium head. But the idea is the same but ussing 150-200 dollars with the stud/bolt pedestal rockers instead 500+, in any case our engines aren't for high revs :p

I also live at Mexico, and sadly I have to pay customs and taxes :(

Thank you!
 
"...I also live at Mexico..."
Ah, another German/Mexican (Kaiser) lol.

Just jokin, don't know what I'm talkin bout
(no offense, meant. None, I hope)

Welcome doooood!
Let us know anything else we can help with
(USA parts house links, non oe upgrade secrets, etc).
 
kaiser":3pxubd4w said:
Hi Bubba, thank you for all your feedback.

bubba22349":3pxubd4w said:
:unsure: Though it's an interesting idea the question I have to ask you is WHY, would you even go through that amount of work that's nessisary and likely at a higher cost unless you have the skill and machinery to do this type of conversion? But for the record the Enginering of a shaft mounted Rocker system is a far superior and a much more stable system at high RPM's then any stud mounted Rocker system even if it also includes a "Stud Girdle".
Click to expand...

I want to have a little higher relation 1.65 or 1.7:1, maybe is a lot of work but I'll be doing all by my selft (I'll be learning a lot, I have a couple of heads avaiable so I can mess with things a bit :p), I'll doing with the 2v conversion, biger valves and porting too.

:beer: I am all about doing everything you can yourself and saving as much money as possable too! (y) The small Ford six'es also share some if there design tech with the Freat and Famous Ford FE engine family (352, 390, 427, 428 to name just a few) they were designed by the same engine team. So you might look into adapting the FE style Rockers too, they might be an easier swap see link. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-FE-390-42 ... SwUn9aAtBv

bubba22349":3pxubd4w said:
If its because you would like to have the advantage of the Aluminum full Roller Rockers then you can still get those too without all that much work (check out the Yella-Terra Roller Rockers setup see below link) that are made to bolt to the heads stock shaft mounts. Good luck on your build (y) :nod:
https://www.vintageinlines.com/product- ... rocker-set
Click to expand...

As i see Yella-Terra are so expensive and not wortly for my setup, maybe if i can have the aluminium head. But the idea is the same but ussing 150-200 dollars with the stud/bolt pedestal rockers instead 500+, in any case our engines aren't for high revs :p

I also live at Mexico, and sadly I have to pay customs and taxes :(

Thank you!
Click to expand...

:beer: Hi kaiser, I am all about doing everything you can yourself and saving as much money as possable too! It's great that you have the ability and skill to do that kind of fabricating and machine work! (y) One other thing to remember is that these small Ford six'es also share some of their Design Tech with the Great & Famous Ford FE engine family (352, 390, 427, 428 to name just a few) they were designed by the same engine team back in the day. So you might look into adapting the FE style Rockers too, as they might be an easier swap see link below.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-FE-390-42 ... SwUn9aAtBv

Which ever way you decide to go I wish you the very best in your mods and engine build up be sure to post some pictures of your build parts and keep us updated on your progress when you can. :nod:
 
Your saying the rocker system in the link can B adapted to an i6?
 
bubba22349":33ixdsca said:
:beer: Hi kaiser, I am all about doing everything you can yourself and saving as much money as possable too! It's great that you have the ability and skill to do that kind of fabricating and machine work! (y) One other thing to remember is that these small Ford six'es also share some of their Design Tech with the Great & Famous Ford FE engine family (352, 390, 427, 428 to name just a few) they were designed by the same engine team back in the day. So you might look into adapting the FE style Rockers too, as they might be an easier swap see link below.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-FE-390-42 ... SwUn9aAtBv

Which ever way you decide to go I wish you the very best in your mods and engine build up be sure to post some pictures of your build parts and keep us updated on your progress when you can. :nod:
Click to expand...

That would be an easier way to go than the individual roller rockers. Just take those FE roller rockers apart, find or make a shaft long enough, then adjust the spacing between the rockers and the mounted height if necessary. Machining of the rocker area of head would be minimal or unnecessary.

What do you think kaiser?
 
Does anyone happen to know what the diameter of the stock rocker shafts are? those FE rockers say a shaft diameter of .840 and spacing / width would be pretty close to stock from appearances but with 1.76 ratio, i would think that a stock cam should be possible and should make it breathe much better going from 1.5 to 1.76 would give me a calcualted "lobe lift" of roughly .408 based off a .348 actual cam lift, not sure what the 170 solid lifter cam specs are could only find the 170 hydralulic specs. Since coil bind is .430 with the original springs i should be able to get away with that ratio high ratio rocker, it is super close to coil bind but hopefully just far enough to make it work otherwise one could go to 289 springs and completely eliminate that issue.

http://www.harlandsharp.com/instruction ... ebpage.pdf
Heres some additional info i was able to find on a similar kit
 
There is a thread on this subject that goes into a lot of detail on different rocker arms for the little six. The FE rockers are wider and if I remember correctly longer. Some machining will be required and rocker to push rod geometry will be off. Can't remember which thread it is, but there are pictures comparing an FE rocker with a 200 rocker arm. If you do a search in the 144-250 small block index ,and go back a couple years the there should be quite a bit of information on the subject. Good luck on your project.
 
Before you guys go any further. With stock length valves the max lift before the retainer hits the top of the guide is around .525" lift, or you will cause spring coil bind.
Longer valves would really benefit the CI head cause that flows good up to .600" lift.
 
62 cometman, I wouldn't bother trying to use the stock valve springs even with the stock cam they don't have enough spring pressure, when you swap in the 289 or 302 valve springs you increase your operating RPM. The rocker shafts diameter is .780 on the small Six's, compared to the .840 of FE set up.

:unsure: This link goes to a group of posts that covers lots of theory on Rocker Arms for the Ford small six'es.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=74180&p=571368&hilit=Ford+FE+rocker+arms+on+a+200+six#p571368

Personally I think the Ford FE Aluminum Roller Rocker Arms in my above posts could be adapted with some amount of work. I don't know how much time or work it would take to do it, but I sure would like to try it. Some of what it would probably take is custom height offset rocker shaft stands, machineing of the rocker arms, custom spacers, etc.

X2 yes longer valves are and would be a very good idea. Good luck on your builds (y) :nod:
 
Hey guys, you all are amazing!!!!!

A lot of good ideas, I was reading all your post an the ones on the bubba link, So for now I think i have 2 options:

Buy the FE Roler Rocker in the first link:

bubba22349":2ux6stkg said:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-FE-390-42 ... SwUn9aAtBv
Click to expand...

and then:

a) Get a new shaft with the diameter of .840 long enough for my six and machining my stock pedestal mounts to accept that shaft and go ahead. The .748 diameter of the inline six will give me around 0.092 to play off-setting the pedestals for geometry, loosing a bit of relation (from 1.76) because the heigh of the valves, but holding the rockers as full roller.

b) And more easily: use Bronze bushing on the new rocker-arms and play off-setting them to get first a correct geometry and then a much better rocker relation on my stock shaft. Since the rockers are full roller, I think I'll lose that getting only the tips roller ussing the busshings.

I don't know, I have to study a lot more and a sample FE rocker to practice lol, For instance I have a couple stock rocker arms and heads to destroy (practice) before the final result :rolflmao: :rolflmao: :rolflmao:

I'll be searchig more about geometry, valves and coils for my setup before doing anything.
 
hope U ck our archive (click on large blue box above w/the screwdirver/wrench).
It may B a lill basic 4 U but good background.
Also the "Handbook" on these motors & vehicles.
 
kaiser":1j47k3z8 said:
Hey guys, you all are amazing!!!!!

A lot of good ideas, I was reading all your post an the ones on the bubba link, So for now I think i have 2 options:

Buy the FE Roler Rocker in the first link:

bubba22349":1j47k3z8 said:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-FE-390-42 ... SwUn9aAtBv
Click to expand...

and then:

a) Get a new shaft with the diameter of .840 long enough for my six and machining my stock pedestal mounts to accept that shaft and go ahead. The .748 diameter of the inline six will give me around 0.092 to play off-setting the pedestals for geometry, loosing a bit of relation (from 1.76) because the heigh of the valves, but holding the rockers as full roller.

b) And more easily: use Bronze bushing on the new rocker-arms and play off-setting them to get first a correct geometry and then a much better rocker relation on my stock shaft. Since the rockers are full roller, I think I'll lose that getting only the tips roller ussing the busshings.

I don't know, I have to study a lot more and a sample FE rocker to practice lol, For instance I have a couple stock rocker arms and heads to destroy (practice) before the final result :rolflmao: :rolflmao: :rolflmao:

I'll be searchig more about geometry, valves and coils for my setup before doing anything.
Click to expand...

Hi Kasier, You might also consider just using the stock six shaft size and since it's all ready the right length you could have them hard chromed if you wanted thought that's probally not nessisary. Then you make your bushings to adapt to the difference in the FE rockers larger size, in that way you can also keep the full roller feature. Good luck (y) :nod:
 
bubba22349":1l2ym9ac said:
Hi Kasier, You might also consider just using the stock six shaft size and since it's all ready the right length you could have them hard chromed if you wanted thought that's probally not nessisary. Then you make your bushings to adapt to the difference in the FE rockers larger size, in that way you can also keep the full roller feature. Good luck (y) :nod:
Click to expand...

Hi Bubba, thank you very much.

I'll probably follow that. maybe in couple of month's i'll working on this :D
 
After searching and reading some more i see that should be benefical using longer valves with the FE rocker.

I think the 289 ford engine valves are very suiteable, what do you think?

small six late stock Intake
Head Diameter: 1.750"
Length: [highlight=yellow]4.260"[/highlight]
Stem Diameter: 0.31035"+


289 Intake.
Head Diameter: 1.780"
Length: [highlight=yellow]4.878"[/highlight]
Stem Diameter: .34195"+
Tip Length: .365"

289 Exhaust
Head Diameter: 1.453"
Length: [highlight=yellow]4.863"[/highlight]
Stem Diameter: .3415"+
Tip Length: .365"
Click to expand...

Basically you will have 0.618 longer lengh valves, and bigger head diameter valves 1.78" and 1.45", since some already have 1.75 or 1.80 and 1.5 valves on their sixes, the 289 valves should work and they are cheap.

I have to see what springs or spacer or cups can I use, maybe just some shims with the 302HP springs that I already have and also all the maching required to seats and guides enlarging them.
 
:unsure: Well Kasier, in my opinion those 289 valve lengths will be way too much to work with and would need to be cut down and new keeper groves cut to work. Stock length 200 valves can be used with cams in the Max lift areas of .440 to 4.60 and maybe a little more in the 4.80 to 4.90 area by trimming the valve guides some. In theory a stock reworked log head will hit its max flow at about .550 lift so going much over .600 in potential cam lift probally isn't going to be much of a benefit. So in theory I would think we would need to look for valves that are .100 to .120 of an inch longer than the stock valves. Good luck and keep working towards a solution. :nod: (y)

Some available Aftermarket valves to compare.
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=76908&p=592249&hilit=200+stem+valve+length#p592249
 
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