Looking for advice on what to do

1

1967LimeGoldMustang

New member
Hi fellow members, I'm Carson. Im 16 years old and acquired a die-hard interest in old cars a few years ago and just had to get one as my first car. To start out I have a 1967 mustang with a 200 in it. (Runs great). I have had it for about a year and have done a little interior and exterior work over the year I had it. My original thoughts were to swap out the six and put in a fox 5.0. Looking around the internet I have came across some nice set ups people have done with the sixes and found this forum also. I really like the idea to have something different instead of another v8 swap. What I'm asking is (if somewhat possible for a lower to mid budget build) to achieve around low 200's for hp and a decent amount of torque. I would prefer get up and go than top speed; whatever gets me up to the speed limit relatively quick. I'm asking for all your knowledge on what I gotta do! I was thinking of getting some headers along with a better ignition to start out then followed by a intake (2bbl edelbrock/Holley or tri power set up). Car is completely stock mechanically. Any guidance and help would be much appreciated!

,Carson
 
Welcome! First off, great choice for a first car! I bought my 67 coupe when I was 15 and still have it 25 years later!

I would really recommend getting the Falcon Six Handbook. Read through it a couple times.

You won't find a better source of information and experience than this forum. Sift through some of the old threads for additional ideas.

The best piece of advice I can offer is to build a plan first! Keep in mind your budget and phase things so it's not so overwhelming.

Excited to see what you decide to do
 
1967LimeGoldMustang":1eqvtm23 said:
Hi fellow members, I'm Carson. Im 16 years old and acquired a die-hard interest in old cars a few years ago and just had to get one as my first car. To start out I have a 1967 mustang with a 200 in it. (Runs great). I have had it for about a year and have done a little interior and exterior work over the year I had it. My original thoughts were to swap out the six and put in a fox 5.0. Looking around the internet I have came across some nice set ups people have done with the sixes and found this forum also. I really like the idea to have something different instead of another v8 swap. What I'm asking is (if somewhat possible for a lower to mid budget build) to achieve around low 200's for hp and a decent amount of torque. I would prefer get up and go than top speed; whatever gets me up to the speed limit relatively quick. I'm asking for all your knowledge on what I gotta do! I was thinking of getting some headers along with a better ignition to start out then followed by a intake (2bbl edelbrock/Holley or tri power set up). Car is completely stock mechanically. Any guidance and help would be much appreciated!

,Carson
Click to expand...

Hi Carson and welcome to the Ford Six site, as a first step get ahold of the Falcon Performance Book loaded with info to fit different budgets (see link below for more info). Your right on track in your thinking!

1. Going with a better ignistion is a great first mod I recommend the DuraSpark II look for a compleate used setup (distribitor, coil, wire harness, and ICM) when your hunting for the late large log head. But with a tighter budget I still think the DSII is best choice, though you could also keep using your current stock point distribitor or install a Pertronix unit in it too.
2. Headers and a good exhaust is an excellent mod too.
3. Better camshaft
4. Better head ported, 3 angle valve job with back cut, optional but consider installing the center port divider too. If your budget allows consider the C.I. Aluminum head which may be cheaper and faster way to get to your H.P. Goals, by skipping to the Aluminum head.
5. Better fuel system, in your choice decide if you just want a bigger 1V, 2V, (4V) or Tri Power system they all can work well, I still like the Tri Power setup for its vintage looks. For a lower budget use a bigger 1V Carter YF, or use an Autolite / Motorcraft 2V in the smaller size of 1.08 or a 1.14 or or a Holley 350 CFM 2V.

That should give you a few things to consider however know that the short block will also need to be built meticulously to get into the 200 + Horse Power range. Also Check out these great engine build Videos by "ecco1955" (see blow link) to see how it's all done. Good luck on your 67 Mustang (y) :nod: Edited

Falcon Performance Book
http://www.falcon6handbook.com

200 Ford Six build by "ecco1955"
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=77528
 
:D Welcome aboard young sir.A little hint when you install the DS2 ignition.Run an extra ground wire from one of the ignition box mount screws to the firewall or engine block.IMHO,this will make for a much longer lived ignition system.I have in excess of 200k miles on two different DS2 systems using the extra ground without any problems.With one exception.That was thanks to Mother Nature,when she delivered a lighting bolt to a utility pole about 10 feet from my truck.ESD killed the one in use plus the spare in my tool box.
Good luck.have fun.Be safe.
Leo
 
bubba22349":24fsjbr3 said:
Hi Carson and welcome to the Ford Six site, as a first step get ahold of the Falcon Performance Book loaded with info to fit different budgets (see link below for more info). Your right on track in your thinking!

1. Going with a better ignistion is a great mod I recommend the DuraSpark II.
2. Headers and a good exhaust excellent mod too.
3. Better camshaft
4. Better head ported, 3 angle valve job with back cut, optional but consider installing the center port divider too. If your budget allows consider the C.I. Aluminum head it may be cheaper and faster way to get to your H.P. Goals
5. Better fuel system your choice decide if you just a bigger 1V, 2V, (4V) or Tri Power system they all can work well, I still like the Tri Power setup for its vintage looks.

That should give you a few things to consider however know that the short block will also need to be built meticulously to get into the 200 + Horse Power range. Also Check out these great engine build Videos by "ecco1955" (see blow link) to see how it's all done. Good luck on your 67 Mustang (y) :nod:

Falcon Performance Book
http://www.falcon6handbook.com


200 Ford Six build by "ecco1955"
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=77528
Click to expand...


Hi bubba thanks for the tips! I'll make sure to consider those. Couple questions, what is the best header for this engine and how could I clear it from the starter? Second between a 2bbl and tri power what are the pros/cons with each?

Thanks again,
Carson
 
woodbutcher":3q719sql said:
:D Welcome aboard young sir.A little hint when you install the DS2 ignition.Run an extra ground wire from one of the ignition box mount screws to the firewall or engine block.IMHO,this will make for a much longer lived ignition system.I have in excess of 200k miles on two different DS2 systems using the extra ground without any problems.With one exception.That was thanks to Mother Nature,when she delivered a lighting bolt to a utility pole about 10 feet from my truck.ESD killed the one in use plus the spare in my tool box.
Good luck.have fun.Be safe.
Leo
Click to expand...


Wow how unlucky that is! I'll make sure to do that! What advantages does the ds2 give? Better fuel economy and power? Thanks again,
Carson
 
ci/DynoRoom-2.html

Check out the dyno testing at this link. It looks like you will need the aluminum head if you must have low 200's hp.
1967 Mustang is a great car and you are a lucky 16 year old.
Definitely get the Performance Handbook it is an invaluable resource for the Ford six enthusiast.
What transmission do you have?
 
bmbm40":c3jrjngn said:
https://fordsix.com/ci/DynoRoom-2.html

Check out the dyno testing at this link. It looks like you will need the aluminum head if you must have low 200's hp.
1967 Mustang is a great car and you are a lucky 16 year old.
Definitely get the Performance Handbook it is an invaluable resource for the Ford six enthusiast.
What transmission do you have?
Click to expand...




Lol thanks man I love my car. Always am looking at it awe in and out of public.

Those dyno numbers are insane! I'm just looking for low 200's at the crank. Maybe around what a stock 289 made. Instead of an aluminum head would a 250 head work for my application. I have read people do that around the forums. I would put a 2bbl on it too. My transmission is the automatic c4.
 
If you want close or over 200HP from the 200 you will need the CI head.
However i have a 205" engine with a late model head, Hooker full length headers, custom Holley 4412-500 carb. My engine puts out 139HP at the wheels with a C-4 trans. Performance is very close to 2bbl 289 engine.
Since i specialize in distributor recurving i like the DS11 with a MSD-6al ignition box. MSD also offers a harness which connects the DS11 to the MSD box. A coil with low primary resistance is necessary is the MSD Blaster 2 or 3 coil. The best option is the Ford TFI coil which is epoxy molded vs oil filled canister.
Another option is use a GM HEI module using the DS11 & one of the above coils.
I offer all the above custom curved for your engine combination. Check out the for sale section for the small six engine.
I also offer a real HEI distributor custom curved for your engine & is a one wire hookup. I strongly do not recommend the DUI which has a 2 piece housing & has many problems.
I can also advise the best camshaft for your combo. Since you have the C-4 you will need a higher stall speed converter.
I am on vacation till the 18th so contact me after that date. Bill
 
1967LimeGoldMustang":1h34sec9 said:
bubba22349":1h34sec9 said:
Hi Carson and welcome to the Ford Six site, as a first step get ahold of the Falcon Performance Book loaded with info to fit different budgets (see link below for more info). Your right on track in your thinking!

1. Going with a better ignistion is a great mod I recommend the DuraSpark II.
2. Headers and a good exhaust excellent mod too.
3. Better camshaft
4. Better head ported, 3 angle valve job with back cut, optional but consider installing the center port divider too. If your budget allows consider the C.I. Aluminum head may be cheaper and faster way to get to your H.P. Goals
5. Better fuel system your choice decide if you just a bigger 1V, 2V, (4V) or Tri Power system they all can work well, I still like the Tri Power setup for its vintage looks.

That should give you a few things to consider however know that the short block will also need to be built meticulously to get into the 200 + Horse Power range. Also Check out these great engine build Videos by "ecco1955" (see blow link) to see how it's all done. Good luck on your 67 Mustang (y) :nod:

Falcon Performance Book
http://www.falcon6handbook.com


200 Ford Six build by "ecco1955"
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=77528
Click to expand...


Hi bubba thanks for the tips! I'll make sure to consider those. Couple questions, what is the best header for this engine and how could I clear it from the starter? Second between a 2bbl and tri power what are the pros/cons with each?

Thanks again,
Carson
Click to expand...

Hi Carson, on headers there are severial choices V.I. (See their link at top of the forum) makes a nice header (shortie) and matched single or dual exhaust system to fit the Mustangs. Another very good header is the Hooker long tube will be a bit tighter fitting but for a max H.P. effort its the way to go. The rest of your exhaust will need to be custom built and fitted. Search for pictures of wsa111 exhaust system for an idea of what an excellent design looks like using the long tube Hookers. For lower budget you can go with the Speed Daddy headers for under $200.00 a single exhaust using 2 1/4 inch pipe would work well.

The main problems of the log heads are fuel distribution, the plentum volume, and a small 1V carb designed for great fuel economy. The best stock heads for performance that we have to work with are very late 1970's to 1982-3 these have the largest logs, ports, valves, and valve seats designed for unleaded fuel use. The pros of the 2V system is ease of fit and Tuning! The con is though it's a much better size carb we still don't have the ideal fuel distribution. At near the end of 200 engine production (aprox. the early 1980's) Ford had built some experimental log heads for testing using this 2V design so it looks like they had planed to go in that direction.

The pros of the Tri power system is that we have even better fuel distribution and it can be used with progressive linkage and still get some decent economy or solid linkage for a drag race system. Offy still makes these 3 X 1V intake kits just like they did back when the Falcon six was a new engine, install is fairly easy too. The cons are it can be harder to fit air cleaners with the stock hood clearance on some Ford models, and it's more difficult to tune. Hope that answers some of your questions, good luck on your Mustang (y) :nod: Edited
 
:D Hi Carson.Extra ground won`t help with ESD,but will give a bit more on a good ground as the three mount screws/bolts don`t make for a real good ground source.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo
 
Carson, this is my system. Hooker Headers, X-pipe 2" to Flowmaster Hushpower mufflers. If i had to replace the mufflers i would go with Borla's or Magnaflow.
DSC_0007.jpg
 
wsa111":8sh6d4bi said:
Carson, this is my system. Hooker Headers, X-pipe 2" to Flowmaster Hushpower mufflers. If i had to replace the mufflers i would go with Borla's or Magnaflow.
DSC_0007.jpg
Click to expand...

Very clean underneath wsa! Thanks very much for all that info in your previous as well. I will try to shoot for long tubes instead of shorties but i found one on cjponyparts for like $370 but don't know much about it. Kinda hard finding long tubes for the 200 it seems. Any recommendations to a long tube in budget? I would be running duals. Also looking at the aluminum heads they are just way out of budget for me. Could I make the mid 70's 250 head with a 2bbl get me close to 200hp or so? I could understand if I would need to do some machining and even bore it.

All this help is really appreciated,

Carson
 
"...Could I make the mid 70's 250 head with a ..."
as stated above the later heads (200/250 R same castings) have advantages ('77 +).

BTW: read the entire "Tech Archive" @ above big blue box of a screwdriver crossed w/ wrench (4 free) while waiting delivery 4 the "Handbook".
 
chad":37ricsw9 said:
"...Could I make the mid 70's 250 head with a ..."
as stated above the later heads (200/250 R same castings) have advantages ('77 +).

BTW: read the entire "Tech Archive" @ above big blue box of a screwdriver crossed w/ wrench (4 free) while waiting delivery 4 the "Handbook".
Click to expand...

Correct. I am just trying to see if using that head could get me to 200 hp. This will most likely be the route I go I'm just trying to confirm this.

Thanks,

Carson
 
Howdy Carson:

I've been lurking and thinking. I noted your horsepower goal but I didn't see a budget, time line or intended use for your sweet car. Is this car your daily driver and needed to get to school? work? These are all critical issues to consider when planning your upgrade project.

What transmission is in the car? What rear end? Gear ratio? You'll find most of this info on the door tag. If you need help deciphering it post it here.

Pardon my bluntness, but it sound like you are looking for upgrades that will be the magic answer to your 200 HP quest. The reality is that it will take a long list of complimentary parts and machining to acquire your HP goal. To attempt 200 HP from a 200 six start with a budget of about $5,000 and hope for the best. For example, Bill's beautiful exhaust system has, at least, a thousand dollar bill attached to it.

Now for the good news; Start by acquiring a core '78 to '80 head. This head will give you a basis for a good stock-type performance upgrade head. It will have 1.75" intake valves, hardened valve seats and a good volume intake tract. Then find a machinist that appreciates your project and will work with you. You will want to upgrade the head with new exhaust valves of 1.5" SSI valves from CI. Once you have the parts plan on machining for pocket porting, milling to your compression ratio goal, back-cutting the intake valves and a performance valve job. That will be the foundation for cam selection and valve train components. Before you go any farther it is time to select your carb, one that complements your new head and cam, and plan for required modification to adapt it. Once you have all this together, plan for a recurved DuraSpark II ignition system. Then start on your exhaust system. That leave dealing with a trans and rear end that will compliment all of the above.

I would offer this suggestion; start by assessing what you have, specifications and condition. Then get to know and understand all systems. Then tune to get the most out of what you have. This process will be foundation and fundamental to whatever you decide to do next. So ask Santa for a Shop Manual for you car and read, read, READ.

I may not sound like it, but I love your car and your project goal. I wish you all the best. Keep learning, planning and thinking. It will happen. Keep us post and don't hesitate to ask question and for clarification. We love to share.

Adios, David
 
CZLN6":1dlmxo2x said:
Howdy Carson:

I've been lurking and thinking. I noted your horsepower goal but I didn't see a budget, time line or intended use for your sweet car. Is this car your daily driver and needed to get to school? work? These are all critical issues to consider when planning your upgrade project.

What transmission is in the car? What rear end? Gear ratio? You'll find most of this info on the door tag. If you need help deciphering it post it here.

Pardon my bluntness, but it sound like you are looking for upgrades that will be the magic answer to your 200 HP quest. The reality is that it will take a long list of complimentary parts and machining to acquire your HP goal. To attempt 200 HP from a 200 six start with a budget of about $5,000 and hope for the best. For example, Bill's beautiful exhaust system has, at least, a thousand dollar bill attached to it.

Now for the good news; Start by acquiring a core '78 to '80 head. This head will give you a basis for a good stock-type performance upgrade head. It will have 1.75" intake valves, hardened valve seats and a good volume intake tract. Then find a machinist that appreciates your project and will work with you. You will want to upgrade the head with new exhaust valves of 1.5" SSI valves from CI. Once you have the parts plan on machining for pocket porting, milling to your compression ratio goal, back-cutting the intake valves and a performance valve job. That will be the foundation for cam selection and valve train components. Before you go any farther it is time to select your carb, one that complements your new head and cam, and plan for required modification to adapt it. Once you have all this together, plan for a recurved DuraSpark II ignition system. Then start on your exhaust system. That leave dealing with a trans and rear end that will compliment all of the above.

I would offer this suggestion; start by assessing what you have, specifications and condition. Then get to know and understand all systems. Then tune to get the most out of what you have. This process will be foundation and fundamental to whatever you decide to do next. So ask Santa for a Shop Manual for you car and read, read, READ.

I may not sound like it, but I love your car and your project goal. I wish you all the best. Keep learning, planning and thinking. It will happen. Keep us post and don't hesitate to ask question and for clarification. We love to share.

Adios, David
Click to expand...

Thanks so much David for the info. Sorry if I sound like a rookie at this but I am. 5,000 dollars is a tad high. More like 1,500-2,000 dollars lol. What I will be doing is trying to find that head you mentioned, duraspark ll ignition, long tube header (dual outlet), a muffler from the flowmaster 40 series (don't know which one) and a 2bbl holly. I will attempt to use all of this and squeeze out as much as I can. 200 hp isn't totally necessary I just want to wake the six up a bit and have some power to have fun with. The car has the c4 automatic, 2:83 gear ratio 7.25" rear end, the car is my daily driver and I have no real specific timeline in it. It will be a driving project for sure. I already know a machinist and exhaust guy so that will not be a problem. I hope to achieve a sense of uniqueness with this car when I'm done and throw her in some car shows :D .Literally saw only one hopped up 6 at the last one I was at out of 350 cars.
 
bubba22349":h3l41ise said:
1967LimeGoldMustang":h3l41ise said:
bubba22349":h3l41ise said:
Hi Carson and welcome to the Ford Six site, as a first step get ahold of the Falcon Performance Book loaded with info to fit different budgets (see link below for more info). Your right on track in your thinking!

1. Going with a better ignistion is a great mod I recommend the DuraSpark II.
2. Headers and a good exhaust excellent mod too.
3. Better camshaft
4. Better head ported, 3 angle valve job with back cut, optional but consider installing the center port divider too. If your budget allows consider the C.I. Aluminum head may be cheaper and faster way to get to your H.P. Goals
5. Better fuel system your choice decide if you just a bigger 1V, 2V, (4V) or Tri Power system they all can work well, I still like the Tri Power setup for its vintage looks.

That should give you a few things to consider however know that the short block will also need to be built meticulously to get into the 200 + Horse Power range. Also Check out these great engine build Videos by "ecco1955" (see blow link) to see how it's all done. Good luck on your 67 Mustang (y) :nod:

Falcon Performance Book
http://www.falcon6handbook.com


200 Ford Six build by "ecco1955"
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=77528
Click to expand...


Hi bubba thanks for the tips! I'll make sure to consider those. Couple questions, what is the best header for this engine and how could I clear it from the starter? Second between a 2bbl and tri power what are the pros/cons with each?

Thanks again,
Carson
Click to expand...

Hi Carson, on headers there are severial choices V.I. (See their link at top of the forum) makes a nice header (shortie) and matched single or dual exhaust system to fit the Mustangs. Another very good header is the Hooker long tube will be a bit tighter fitting but for a max H.P. effort its the way to go. The rest of your exhaust will need to be custom built and fitted. Search for pictures of wsa111 exhaust system for an idea of what an excellent design looks like using the long tube Hookers.

The main problems of the log heads are fuel distribution, the plentum volume, and a small 1V carb designed for great fuel economy. The best stock heads for performance that we have to work with are very late 1970's to 1982-3 these have the largest logs, ports, valves, and valve seats designed for unleaded fuel use. The pros of the 2V system is ease of fit and Tuning! The con is though it's a much better size carb we still don't have the ideal fuel distribution. At near the end of 200 engine production (aprox. the early 1980's) Ford had built some experimental log heads for testing using this 2V design so it looks like they had planed to go in that direction.

The pros of the Tri power system is that we have even better fuel distribution and it can be used with progressive linkage and still get some decent economy or solid linkage for a drag race system. Offy still makes these 3 X 1V intake kits just like they did back when the Falcon six was a new engine, install is fairly easy too. The cons are it can be harder to fit air cleaners with the stock hood clearance on some Ford models, and it's more difficult to tune. Hope that answers some of your questions, good luck on your Mustang (y) :nod:
Click to expand...


Thank you very much bubba! I will probably be going in the 2bbl direction and see what I could do. I will be trying to find a 250 head as well. I heard the compression will be lower using that head. How can I bring the compression ratio up to a decent amount?

Thanks so much for the help,

Carson
 
Hi Carson. What is the condition of the short block? That will determine what is going to be best to raise the compression.

Basically, you'll mill the head to compensate for thicker modern gasket and mill further to shrink the combustion chambers and achieve the c/r you are shooting for. It's based upon the deck clearance, which is the minimum distance of the crown of the piston to the deck and the volume of the combustion chambers, along with the volume of the piston dish, gasket thickness, gasket bore etc. But once you know those two numbers , after actually measuring them, you can calculate the static compression based upon the other specs of the 200 engine. Once you pick a cam you can plug in those numbers and calculate the effective stroke and the real or dynamic compression ratio. Like David said it's really important to know what you plan to do with the car, i.e daily driver or weekend hot rod etc. What type of transmission rear ratio and so on. Highway driving vs around town etc.

From there you'll develop a plan based upon what you have, iow if the short block is ok, maybe just a cam/lifters and a new timing set for it, maybe bearings and a re-ring. But if you need to rebuild the block you'll want to mill the deck for near zero clearance then mill the head the to get the rest to the goal, i.e 9.1-9.5 sc/r but it's cam dependent as well, which is dependent on the intended use etc. You see? That's why it's important to 1, know what you've got and the 2, make a coherent plan to get there within budget.

A goal of 120-150hp at the wheels is a good one and you will notice the difference. 200 is a lot to go for without a full blown build and/or turbo. The nice thing is if you take a 100hp engine and add 25hp that's a 25% increase in power.
 
2X ^ (Seth)

1) the plan well adapted to the application is what it's all about automotively.
2) Due diligence 1st, plan 2nd, then NO Deviation during the build develops the best end products.
3) A vehicle is a system and a change to 1 part of the system effects all the others~

so fer instance - there R lota benefits to that 2v being direct mounted...my suggestion is:
get that "Handbook" and (for free) while waiting for delivery -
peruse the "Tech Archive" a blue box above wid da screwdriver crossed over the wrench.

Come back after w/Qs and ideas if U wish...we got plenty of opinions and better yet - there's some internationally recognized helpers here (y)
 
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