Flamethrower Coil

Moderator: Mod Squad

User avatar
ledslinger29
Registered User
Posts: 197
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2016 2:19 pm
Location: Jacksonville, FL

Flamethrower Coil

Post #1 by ledslinger29 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:24 pm

Hey fellas,
Which part number flamethrower coil is recommended for a 170 with loadomatic with pertronix upgrade? I was at Jegs and noted that there are several different part numbers....
68 Bronco Halfcab 170 wallered out .060 over, oversized valves, zero decked, 9:1 SCR, Autolite 1100 w/ Loadomatic/Pertronix, Schneider 248/56H cam

User avatar
Econoline
Registered User
Posts: 975
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:37 pm
Location: Anacortes, WA

Re: Flamethrower Coil

Post #2 by Econoline » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:47 pm

If you are using the resistor wire to feed the coil use the 1.5 ohm coil, otherwise use the 3 ohm coil is how I understand it.
It ain't gonna fix itself

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 3931
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

Re: Flamethrower Coil

Post #3 by chad » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:15 pm

Econoline wrote:If you are using the resistor wire to feed the coil use the 1.5 ohm coil, otherwise use the 3 ohm coil is how I understand it.

I know the oil filled, metal case is good or better but isn't there a ohm difference pre & post '75/7 systems (a change w/the DSII)?
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

User avatar
Econoline
Registered User
Posts: 975
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:37 pm
Location: Anacortes, WA

Re: Flamethrower Coil

Post #4 by Econoline » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:28 pm

Yes, but that brings in a whole nother subject and we're talking about points systems. Even the DSII coil is going to be 1.2-1.5 ohms and must have a resistor wire to be reliable. It's basically the same coil with a different connector, lol. With a modern ignition module you can run straight voltage(12-15v) @ .4 ohms with a TFI type coil. 'Modern' meaning a late 70's HEI 4-pin module.
It ain't gonna fix itself

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 3931
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

Re: Flamethrower Coil

Post #5 by chad » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:42 pm

"...Which part number..."
Just pick one up from Matt @ VI, eh?
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

User avatar
ledslinger29
Registered User
Posts: 197
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2016 2:19 pm
Location: Jacksonville, FL

Re: Flamethrower Coil

Post #6 by ledslinger29 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:52 am

Just an update, found on hotrod.com. Chad I don't believe Matt has flamethrowers.
Im pretty sure my pertronix is the standard ignitor one.
For specific recommendations we contacted our pal, Don Lindfors, at PerTronix to get the straight story on coils. As he explains, PerTronix offers three oil-filled, canister-style coils and they are identified by the ignition system they are suited for:

The Flame Thrower 40,000V coils have internal resistance rated at 1.5 or 3.0 ohms. The 3.0-ohm coil should be used on PerTronix Ignitors installed on four- and six-cylinder engines while 1.5-ohm coils should be used for eight-cylinder applications. These coils can be used on virtually any inductive (non-capacitive discharge) ignition system.

Flame Thrower II coils have lower resistance, 0.6 ohms for use with Ignitor II ignition systems as well as many other high-energy ignitions. The low resistance helps to produce up to 45,000 V. This higher voltage allows larger spark plug gaps for added power and better fuel economy.

Flame-Thrower III coils were developed for use with the new Ignitor III electronics. The extremely low resistance of 0.32 ohms results in 45,000 V and a coil that charges to peak, current typically 30-70 percent faster the other coils. It should be noted that these coils are compatible with Ignitor III electronics only.
68 Bronco Halfcab 170 wallered out .060 over, oversized valves, zero decked, 9:1 SCR, Autolite 1100 w/ Loadomatic/Pertronix, Schneider 248/56H cam

User avatar
ledslinger29
Registered User
Posts: 197
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2016 2:19 pm
Location: Jacksonville, FL

Re: Flamethrower Coil UPDATE

Post #7 by ledslinger29 » Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:28 pm

So I did some figuring and some testing, and the old coil was getting 6V. Ford used a resistor wire on my vehicle to keep the voltage supply to the coil at 6 instead of 12. A little more research and some advise from another forum revealed that anytime you replace the points with Pertronix it is recommended that you send 12V to the coil. I had the Pertronix put in about 10 years ago, and never knew I was running 6V all this time. So i replaced the resistor wire from the ignition switch with a 12ga normal wire so my coil would get 12V, and folks let me tell ya. I rebuilt the motor last year, many of you will remember giving me advice, and I was pretty disappointed with my power given the upgrades I did. Ran her tonight and laughed running down the road! What a difference! I don't know how much is from upgrading to a Flamethrower and how much is from providing the Pertronix with the voltage it was supposed to have all along, but this little 170 is a beast! I could probably break the tires loose if I wanted to (I don't). The fun factor of driving this old truck just increased big time. Thanks all!
68 Bronco Halfcab 170 wallered out .060 over, oversized valves, zero decked, 9:1 SCR, Autolite 1100 w/ Loadomatic/Pertronix, Schneider 248/56H cam

User avatar
wsa111
FSP Moderator
Posts: 2935
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 5:28 pm
Location: South Carolina
Contact:

Re: Flamethrower Coil

Post #8 by wsa111 » Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:32 pm

Thats good news on your modernized ignition system.
The Ford TFI coil also has very low primary resistance. Another advantage it is solid state, not oil filled.
The down side is mounting it.
I use one with my MSD-6al & it works to perfection. Thats the reason i have several MSD Blaster coils for sale.
67 mustang,C-4, with mod. 80 hd, custom 500 cfm carb with annular boosters, hooker headers, dual exh.-X pipe, flowmaster mufflers, HEI dist. Engine 205" .030" over with offset ground crank & 1.65 roller rockers. 9.5 comp., Isky 262 cam.
2003 Ford Lightning daily driver. Recurving Distributors. billythedistributorman@live.com
Image

bmbm40
Registered User
Posts: 1080
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:25 pm
Location: Carson City, NV

Re: Flamethrower Coil

Post #9 by bmbm40 » Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:28 pm

Good to hear! Have fun.
66 Bronco-1970 250, NV3550, DSII, 4 turn ps, uncut, 1" bl, 2.5" sl, front disc, twin stick D 20, 30 x 9.50
NEXT- direct mount 1.08 on D8 head, power brakes, rear limited slip, 3G, electric fan, electric upgrades, custom curved DSII, header, 31" tires

New guy? Get the Falcon Performance Handbook and Ford six high performance parts from https://vintageinlines.com

User avatar
powerband
FSP Moderator
Posts: 1850
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 6:45 pm
Location: Mid Hudson Valley - \H/

Re: Flamethrower Coil

Post #10 by powerband » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:33 am

For us from in the points, condenser and oil filled coil era , what's makes it TFI coil? . Do you ever need a resistor with a Ford late model coil and GM HEI module for trigger?. Any advantage over standard ford 12V Dura-Spark II coil?

PS: the term 'Condenser' dates from a time before 'Capacitor" became standard term in electronics..


thanks
"Take time to stop and smell... The roadkill..."

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 3931
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

Automotive Coils & ancillary ign system

Post #11 by chad » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:57 am

(I'm really ignorant on ele/whole ign systems)

Sorry if this is seen as a thread jack:
powerband crosses a Q I've always had...
the TFI is avoided by many of the ol timers round here as unreliable.
Is it cuz the over all system in which it wuz used or just that coil itself?
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

User avatar
B RON CO
VIP Member
Posts: 677
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:02 pm
Location: Long Island, NY
Contact:

Re: Flamethrower Coil

Post #12 by B RON CO » Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:26 pm

Hi, Ford TFI 3, and TFI 4 ( thick film ignition) are the first computer controlled ignitions. They had no vacuum and maybe no centrifugal advance. TFI 4 was good, but now the modules get a bad rap because many of the aftermarket replacement modules suck. We always had a spare Motorcraft module in the tool bag. Good luck
B RON CO. Still workin' on it!

1933 Ford Pickup - 59A Flathead V8
1966 Ford Bronco - U14 - 170/200 Straight 6
1966 Ford Mustang - 289 V8

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 3931
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

Coil choice

Post #13 by chad » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:32 pm

my preference is the full DSII system but at some point I may swap out the 'box' (I have the "blue strain relief") for a lill HEI module. I like the cleaner lines (small sz, cost/availability, easier to keep a spare onboard) it would give.

* Would I need to change out the coil @ that time (lower/higher volts or whatever it needs)? *
Last edited by chad on Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

User avatar
wsa111
FSP Moderator
Posts: 2935
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 5:28 pm
Location: South Carolina
Contact:

Re: Flamethrower Coil

Post #14 by wsa111 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:34 pm

powerband wrote:For us from in the points, condenser and oil filled coil era , what's makes it TFI coil? . Do you ever need a resistor with a Ford late model coil and GM HEI module for trigger?. Any advantage over standard ford 12V Dura-Spark II coil?

PS: the term 'Condenser' dates from a time before 'Capacitor" became standard term in electronics..


thanks

Since the system operates on reduced voltage i assume the Ford DS11 coil is a high resistance unit on the primary side. The voltage is probably 35K. Correct me if i am wrong.
My TFI coil is rated at 45K.
The MSD box slams 400V into it since it is the capacitive discharge system. Thats how it produces 3 sparks up to 3K rpms.
So far so good yet.
67 mustang,C-4, with mod. 80 hd, custom 500 cfm carb with annular boosters, hooker headers, dual exh.-X pipe, flowmaster mufflers, HEI dist. Engine 205" .030" over with offset ground crank & 1.65 roller rockers. 9.5 comp., Isky 262 cam.
2003 Ford Lightning daily driver. Recurving Distributors. billythedistributorman@live.com
Image

User avatar
bubba22349
Global Moderator
Posts: 8244
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Flagstaff, Az. 86005 near the old Route 66

Re: Flamethrower Coil UPDATE

Post #15 by bubba22349 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:45 pm

ledslinger29 wrote:So I did some figuring and some testing, and the old coil was getting 6V. Ford used a resistor wire on my vehicle to keep the voltage supply to the coil at 6 instead of 12. A little more research and some advise from another forum revealed that anytime you replace the points with Pertronix it is recommended that you send 12V to the coil. I had the Pertronix put in about 10 years ago, and never knew I was running 6V all this time. So i replaced the resistor wire from the ignition switch with a 12ga normal wire so my coil would get 12V, and folks let me tell ya. I rebuilt the motor last year, many of you will remember giving me advice, and I was pretty disappointed with my power given the upgrades I did. Ran her tonight and laughed running down the road! What a difference! I don't know how much is from upgrading to a Flamethrower and how much is from providing the Pertronix with the voltage it was supposed to have all along, but this little 170 is a beast! I could probably break the tires loose if I wanted to (I don't). The fun factor of driving this old truck just increased big time. Thanks all!


:beer: congrats on getting a decent working ignition system so you can now really enjoy driving your Bronco! This is also why me and so many other site members will usually recommend ditching the old LOM Distribitors and upgrading at least to the latter points distribitor with its centrifugal and vacuum advance (which your 68 Bronco should have stock) or just going all the way to the better still latter model Ford DuraSpark II ignition system. As with a DS II is electronic plus also has both the centrifugal and vacuum advance systems it is an easy swap to really wake up the performance and economy of these early Ford Six engines. Good luck you proved that there is another way to make these six'es run good too. :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

bmbm40
Registered User
Posts: 1080
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:25 pm
Location: Carson City, NV

Re: Flamethrower Coil

Post #16 by bmbm40 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:03 pm

Good demonstration on consulting an expert for the ignition system. And encouragement for those wanting to mod a 170 for a Bronco which had always got my advice of more cubes. Which cant hurt of course.
66 Bronco-1970 250, NV3550, DSII, 4 turn ps, uncut, 1" bl, 2.5" sl, front disc, twin stick D 20, 30 x 9.50
NEXT- direct mount 1.08 on D8 head, power brakes, rear limited slip, 3G, electric fan, electric upgrades, custom curved DSII, header, 31" tires

New guy? Get the Falcon Performance Handbook and Ford six high performance parts from https://vintageinlines.com

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests