Hey all! I am going today to purchase an inline 200 from a 1968 mustang from an individual in my town for $300! My mustang is a 64 1/2 that needs a lot of work and the inline 170 in it needs to be rebuilt. The inline 200 I am purchasing has all the accessories with it and the trans as well however I will not be using the trans as my car has a perfectly fine C4 in it. I am planning on keeping my inline 170 and one day rebuilding it as it is unique to the 64 1/2's. My question is will I run into any problems with the swap? I know the engines are nearly identical externally but my main concern is the alternator system on the 200 vs the generator system in my 170. I would like to run the alternator from the 200 since this is just going to be a weekend backroads cruiser and I know it is a much superior system. If anyone with some experience with this could chime in I would greatly appreciate it thank you!
64 1/2 to 68 engine swap
- Thread starter Tyro77
- Start date
The Blue Box
Well-known member
As long as the block is double drilled or drilled for the small clutch pattern you should be fine. You will see 2 sets of holes at the top of the back of the block (if its double drilled). These blocks will support both bolt patterns. This is what i did. I swapped a 64 170 for a 66 200. I didnt use the top 2 bolt holes as i had the old school smaller clutch bellhousing. And also swapping for an alt isnt rocket science. I think i only had to run 1 or two wires and get a different voltage regulator. Very basic stuff. I will post a wiring diagram for the alt if i can find it.
The Blue Box
Well-known member
https://norwalkkiwanis.org/images/rewir ... wiring.jpg wiring diagram
I got the engine last night and and the guy threw in the voltage regulator as well in case I needed it! I am going to see if I can run it outside of the car before I worry with putting it in. The carburetor doesn't look great at all and its a totally different setup than the autolite 1100 that I have on my car but fingers crossed I can get it to run. It is a carter RBS on the new engine, I am assuming that the 68 engine no longer has a vacuum advance distributor would that be correct?
Howdy Tyro:
Q- "It is a carter RBS on the new engine, I am assuming that the 68 engine no longer has a vacuum advance distributor would that be correct?"
A- Yes, the RBS is compatible with your '68 distributor. Neither are SCV or LoM. The '68 distributer uses both vacuum and centrifugal advance. The stock '68 carb was a downsized Autolite 1100 rated at 150 cfm. The RBS is rated at 215 cfm. It first appeared in 1970 on Mavericks with 250 engines. The RBS is a preferred carb for a 200 upgrade. It is low profile and quite simple to rebuild. The linkage and fuel line will require some adaptation but will be worth the effort.
Take a close look at the distributer vacuum canister. Many '68 vacuum canisters used a vacuum advance/retard system in an attempt to meet EPA standards of that time. For your use, ONLY use the outside nipple and leave the inside nipple open.
I hope that helps. Keep us up on your progress.
Adios, David
Q- "It is a carter RBS on the new engine, I am assuming that the 68 engine no longer has a vacuum advance distributor would that be correct?"
A- Yes, the RBS is compatible with your '68 distributor. Neither are SCV or LoM. The '68 distributer uses both vacuum and centrifugal advance. The stock '68 carb was a downsized Autolite 1100 rated at 150 cfm. The RBS is rated at 215 cfm. It first appeared in 1970 on Mavericks with 250 engines. The RBS is a preferred carb for a 200 upgrade. It is low profile and quite simple to rebuild. The linkage and fuel line will require some adaptation but will be worth the effort.
Take a close look at the distributer vacuum canister. Many '68 vacuum canisters used a vacuum advance/retard system in an attempt to meet EPA standards of that time. For your use, ONLY use the outside nipple and leave the inside nipple open.
I hope that helps. Keep us up on your progress.
Adios, David
I've run engines on the ground before and learned a few things- even starting them (much less revving them a bit) causes them to want to roll from the torque. So you have to secure them somehow- V8s are a little more stable but the tall inline sixes are hard to control (they need to stand upright for the carb to work). Also to start them you really need a manual transmission bellhousing, with an automatic you would have to crack the engine/trans, remove the torque converter, and put them back together. The reason is the starter needs the bell to mount/locate it to the flywheel, but you don't want to spin the automatic internals as the front pump can be ruined (I suppose you could loop fluid lines, etc).
Honestly I think you'd be best off using your car as the engine stand since you are taking your 170 out anyway. Do a compression test on the 200 first to make sure the internals test sound (you can do that on the ground). If it passes that test, take out the 170, drop in the 200, connect the bare minimum and test fire it. If you find a big problem it would take only 15 min to disconnect the minimum and remove it again.
Honestly I think you'd be best off using your car as the engine stand since you are taking your 170 out anyway. Do a compression test on the 200 first to make sure the internals test sound (you can do that on the ground). If it passes that test, take out the 170, drop in the 200, connect the bare minimum and test fire it. If you find a big problem it would take only 15 min to disconnect the minimum and remove it again.
I bought the engine with a 3 speed manual trans already connected to it. I have turned it over strapped down in a few places to the pallet its on and it is turning over good and sounds like it has good compression. I cannot seem to get spark on it but my set up isn't exactly professional. I have been clamping the positive coil wire to the battery with jumper cables and using the positive jumper cable to turn over the starter. I do not think that is the proper way to do it but I figured it was worth a shot. I am going to do a compression test since that should be fairly simple.
I got the engine running on the pallet and it sounds very healthy, I couldn't get it to stay running and I assume it is because the carter carburetor on the engine looks like it has sat in a pit of molasses for about 30 years, so I am sure it needs a rebuild. I went ahead and put a new fuel pump on there and I was going to swap over my autolite 1100 and load o matic dist for the time being since both are newly rebuilt. I went to swap on the autolite and noticed the carb base didn't have the channel that the one on my original engine had. So I went to swap over my carb base and found out the bolt holes don't even come close to matching up. Also the opening in my manifold and on the carb base that came on this engine is quite a bit bigger than on my old engine. Will my autolite work with the carb base for the carter carb even though it lacks the channel that is on the carb base that came with it? I was under the impression this engine came with an autolite carb from the factory so I am confused as to why it wouldn't mount up. Thanks for the help!
Howdy Back Tyro:
Are you sure that the '68 engine is a '68? Check and report the casting code on the side of the block. Also the casting code on the log, behind the carb hole. Please post the codes for us to be most helpful to you.
Q- "Will my autolite work with the carb base for the carter carb even though it lacks the channel that is on the carb base that came with it?"
A- yes. use a new gasket that does not have the channel cut into it. The gasket will seal the vacuum channel.
Q- "I was under the impression this engine came with an autolite carb from the factory so I am confused as to why it wouldn't mount up."
A- Yes, a '68 engine would have an Autolite 1100 that has been downsized from 185 cfm on pre-'67 200s to 150 cfm on '68 and '69 1100s. The '68 & '69 1100s do not have a SCV that the '67 and earlier Autolite 1100s have. They have a ported vacuum source for the '68 distributor.
The Carter RBS carb is not original on a '68 engine. It was probably added by a previous owner to increase power. It is rated at 215 cfm. It has a larger throttle bore and a, unique to it, adapter. You should be able to use your 170 carb if you use it's adapter but you may have to modify it by elongating the mounting holes.
Your 170 carb will not be compatible with the '68 distributor. The '64 1/2 170 carb is a SCV model that sends a SCV modified signal to the LoM distributor. The '68 distributor utilizes both centrifugal and vacuum advance.
Using your '64 1/2 carb and LoM distributor on the '68 200 will limit it's power potential, but it will work. If you don't use the RBS carb or the '68 distributor know that they are valued and sought after by other members here.
Also know that the adjustable rocker arm assembly on the 170 can be used on the 200 engine as a means to get the most out of it's hydraulic cam.
Also know that someday resurrecting the 64 1/2 Mustang to it's original state is a worthwhile goal.
Adios, David
Are you sure that the '68 engine is a '68? Check and report the casting code on the side of the block. Also the casting code on the log, behind the carb hole. Please post the codes for us to be most helpful to you.
Q- "Will my autolite work with the carb base for the carter carb even though it lacks the channel that is on the carb base that came with it?"
A- yes. use a new gasket that does not have the channel cut into it. The gasket will seal the vacuum channel.
Q- "I was under the impression this engine came with an autolite carb from the factory so I am confused as to why it wouldn't mount up."
A- Yes, a '68 engine would have an Autolite 1100 that has been downsized from 185 cfm on pre-'67 200s to 150 cfm on '68 and '69 1100s. The '68 & '69 1100s do not have a SCV that the '67 and earlier Autolite 1100s have. They have a ported vacuum source for the '68 distributor.
The Carter RBS carb is not original on a '68 engine. It was probably added by a previous owner to increase power. It is rated at 215 cfm. It has a larger throttle bore and a, unique to it, adapter. You should be able to use your 170 carb if you use it's adapter but you may have to modify it by elongating the mounting holes.
Your 170 carb will not be compatible with the '68 distributor. The '64 1/2 170 carb is a SCV model that sends a SCV modified signal to the LoM distributor. The '68 distributor utilizes both centrifugal and vacuum advance.
Using your '64 1/2 carb and LoM distributor on the '68 200 will limit it's power potential, but it will work. If you don't use the RBS carb or the '68 distributor know that they are valued and sought after by other members here.
Also know that the adjustable rocker arm assembly on the 170 can be used on the 200 engine as a means to get the most out of it's hydraulic cam.
Also know that someday resurrecting the 64 1/2 Mustang to it's original state is a worthwhile goal.
Adios, David
The block has a C8DE engineering prefix which would tell me 68 but the log has a C9DE engineering prefix on it which would indicate 69. The Autolite 1100 does mount to the Carter RBS base but I was just concerned about the channel difference but since you cleared that up I will just put the gasket over it. Do you know what that channel is for? If I decide to get rid of the carter carb I will post it up here for you guys!
W E L C O M E Tyro !!!
U chose a good yrs to swap between as that's the break yr for improved performance (MPGs, pep'n more). With these "Falcon" or ThriftPower motors you can have the best of 1 or several worlds. Old school looks even when prepped (3 angle valve job'n back cut intakes, upgraded ignition w/DSII) right on up to efi and turbo. Ck out our whole site, but 1st - the Tech Archive @ above crossed screwdriver/wrench. Lotsa clues on history, work-a-round strategy, simple maintenance, radical mods easily done by non-pros like me.
Additionally,
many of us use 'the Handbook', it's author, (1 post before ur last #12), describes a 'staged' plan that allows one to drive today planning/doing mods incrementally to keep on the road, while reaching your custom made plan toward whatever end product you wish to drive. Ck the archive out while waiting for Handbook delivery? Both have excellent understandable LOM/SCV descriptions. I believe the lill passageway U question is described as less essential ("fagedaboudid").
U chose a good yrs to swap between as that's the break yr for improved performance (MPGs, pep'n more). With these "Falcon" or ThriftPower motors you can have the best of 1 or several worlds. Old school looks even when prepped (3 angle valve job'n back cut intakes, upgraded ignition w/DSII) right on up to efi and turbo. Ck out our whole site, but 1st - the Tech Archive @ above crossed screwdriver/wrench. Lotsa clues on history, work-a-round strategy, simple maintenance, radical mods easily done by non-pros like me.
Additionally,
many of us use 'the Handbook', it's author, (1 post before ur last #12), describes a 'staged' plan that allows one to drive today planning/doing mods incrementally to keep on the road, while reaching your custom made plan toward whatever end product you wish to drive. Ck the archive out while waiting for Handbook delivery? Both have excellent understandable LOM/SCV descriptions. I believe the lill passageway U question is described as less essential ("fagedaboudid").
Howdy Back:
The channel is a vacuum channel to add off-idle vacuum refinement for the Load-o-Matic vacuum advance system. I doubt that you will notice that it is gone.
IF/when you are interested in more power don't forget about the RBS. It is compatible with the '68 distributor and a great combo upgrade. Also, Don't for to increase the initial advance on the '68 distributor by 5 degrees over stock specs.
I'll be anxious to hear your progress.
Adios, David
The channel is a vacuum channel to add off-idle vacuum refinement for the Load-o-Matic vacuum advance system. I doubt that you will notice that it is gone.
IF/when you are interested in more power don't forget about the RBS. It is compatible with the '68 distributor and a great combo upgrade. Also, Don't for to increase the initial advance on the '68 distributor by 5 degrees over stock specs.
I'll be anxious to hear your progress.
Adios, David
Howdy Back bmbm:
Yes, '69 model year was the beginning of some cylinder head changes but it was only on the C9xx xx M, emphasis on the "M" suffix. It was most often found on 250 engines with a few found on 200s. Typical FoMoCo. The "M" castings were different in the size and shape of the log, the diameter of the carb hole and the volume of the combustion chamber. Many head changes followed through 78; different log shapes and volume, induction hardened valve seats and 1.75" intake valves. Minor changes continued through the Exxx castings, but mostly to the shape and volume of the log.
All things considered, the excitement and desirability of the "M" head has waned. Yes, the flat top log is desirable for adapting to mount a two barrel, but lags behind a D8 and later head. Modifying to mount a two barrel is still do-able.
I hope that explains it.
Adios, David
Yes, '69 model year was the beginning of some cylinder head changes but it was only on the C9xx xx M, emphasis on the "M" suffix. It was most often found on 250 engines with a few found on 200s. Typical FoMoCo. The "M" castings were different in the size and shape of the log, the diameter of the carb hole and the volume of the combustion chamber. Many head changes followed through 78; different log shapes and volume, induction hardened valve seats and 1.75" intake valves. Minor changes continued through the Exxx castings, but mostly to the shape and volume of the log.
All things considered, the excitement and desirability of the "M" head has waned. Yes, the flat top log is desirable for adapting to mount a two barrel, but lags behind a D8 and later head. Modifying to mount a two barrel is still do-able.
I hope that explains it.
Adios, David
I got the engine in today with no major hiccups and for some reason I am getting gas to the carb (auto lite 1100) but my accelerator pump is not pumping and it will not run unless I add gas directly into the carb. So I tried swapping back on the carter RBS and it was immediately flooding. I have a new fuel tank, cleaned lines fuel pump and filter. My carb was freshly rebuilt by a place called carburetor specialists less than a year ago but it has sat ever since then since I was having other engine troubles do you think it needs another rebuild or might my problem be something else?
If the carb is flooding, if its not a fire hazzard, block off the fuel supply to the carb & run it out of gas. This will let the float will open the needle valve.
Let the fuel get to the carb & you may flush the trash from the needle & seat. If that does not work, time to pull the carb apart.
The 1100 is probably a check ball or weight missing?? Good luck.
Let the fuel get to the carb & you may flush the trash from the needle & seat. If that does not work, time to pull the carb apart.
The 1100 is probably a check ball or weight missing?? Good luck.