Giving up. Way to make my ignition circuit?

falcon_master

falcon_master

Well-known member
Hi everyone. So I've finally gotten around to my falcon again and I had it be able to actually start up last time I worked on it a little bit ago. Well today I put in the key and turn it and nothing. The solenoid is dead I remembered so I bypassed it and the engine will crank over but won't start up not even with starting fluid. I traced the problem to what I think is spark. If it does have one it's so weak I can't even see it. What can I do to diagnose what part if the ignition system it is. Distributor or the coil. Could it even be the ignition switch cause it won't work for start maybe it's not working for ignition thanks everyone
 
Hi, the primary ignition system, including the wire from the key switch, coil, points and condenser, or electronic pickup and control box makes the spark.
The secondary ignition system, cap, rotor, wires and spark plugs deliver the spark.
When you jumped the solenoid, I hope the key was on. Assuming the key is on, check for voltage at the + side of the coil. If you have current at the coil, look in the distributor cap and see if the points are opening and closing.
Notice the cam on the distributor, under the rotor. When the cam is opening the points, at the highest spot, is the air gap of the points. The gap should measure .027. Many guys are a little intimidated by a set of points, so just look at them for now, and post what you see. Good luck
 
Yes the ign. Switch was on when cranking. I took off the cap and manually opened the points and got a real crappy spark. It was almost non existent and bright yellow. And j was getting nothing at the plugs. So after some more troubleshooting I decided to replace the coil for only $25 it's not a bad investment as if it's not the actual problem than I can just return it. But everything under the cap looks new. It's strange. It's like a new dist. Was put in with an old coil. I mean the cap and rotor and points were all spotless. Not even any dirt grime or dust. But the wires all seem original should probably replace those in the future.
 
"...than I can just return..."
no ele prts R returnable (usually).

What kinda test (ele) equp do U have?

Reason asked? know how'n equp R the needs on this issue.
("Know how" = how the system wrks)
We can help a lill w/this last 1.
 
I have a multi meter a inline spark testing tool and basic hand tools as well as a very crude understanding of how it works. I understand that the coil uses a magnetic field and builds up high voltage and when the points open from the cam love in the dizzy it cause the fields to collapse and the spark to shoot across the points through the rotor to the terminal the rotor is touching and therefore to the spark plug. I know it's a bit more complicated than that but that's the simple way I understand it. But I'm really intimidated by all the different specs and the points themselves I'll be honest here I have almost no idea what im doing ok these. I know the basics like to check for putting or corrosion and to file them a bit if needed and to set the point gap. But one thing I've Never fully understood is electrical stuff. So all that crap about ground and power flow and volts and resistance is gibberish to me ( I know I'm embarrassed I never had an old points style engine to learn on before). Thanks for your understanding and help everyone
 
The coil discharges when it's grounded. On your solenoid there are 2 big battery type lugs and 2 # 10 terminal screws, an I and an S. The I stands for ignition and the S means start. The ignition terminal is intermittent, it is for full voltage to the coil at start-up. The S is for making the relay, iow, starting the engine and throwing power to the I terminal. There is no ground terminal, a Ford solenoid is grounded through the case. That last bit can be confusing if you've dealt with similar solenoids that have + and - terminals to make the relay.

When you turn the key to start you send 12v to the S terminal which engages the solenoid and in turn sends 12v to the I terminal and the starter, which is wired to either side of the solenoid(it doesn't matter which, so long as the battery is wire to the other one ;)). When you let off the key and you're in the run position the 12v goes directly to the coil but its potential is reduced through the resistor wire. On the coil, the + voltage is wired directly to the coil from the ignition switch via a resistor wire on the run terminal and to the 'I' terminal on the solenoid and the - terminal on the coil is wired to the distributor. When the points or electronic module are engaging they are momentarily making the ground to the coil.

In short, you should have 1 wire from the distributor to the coil (-) and 2 wires from the coil (+); hose are 1 to the ignition switch run and 1 to the solenoid 'I' terminal

I apologize if you know this but I've seen this screwed up several times, it's easy to do. It's easy to forget to put the rotor back in after a pertronix upgrade too :oops: :)
 
I dont mean to sound like a schmuck, but are the plug wires new? The coil to distributor could be bad, stuff like that. I had points and wasnt too scared of them. Just keep a feeler gauge around and a flathead screwdriver and you got it man. Theres nothing to fear but fesr itself.
I was originally scared to pull my trans and change my clutch but now ive pulled it 5 times and it still doesnt work right, but at least i know how to do it and am not scared anymore. My time to take it all down (including flywheel) is 1h 52mins, just timed that today lol
 
Hi everyone. I'm officially bamboozled on my crash ignition system. It's all fubar. Wires are torn up or laying unplugged in a massive tangle under the dash. I can't tell which is which. All I know is my problem. A. The ign. Switch won't work the starter anymore and so I replaced the starter solenoid. Well as soon as I plug the battery in the starter comes on and won't go off even with the key set to on not start. So that's wierd. By far my biggest problem is no spark. I've replaced my coil my spark plugs all the wires. The cap and rotor look almost new underneath. If I open the points manually with the system plugged in I get a very tiny yellow spark between the points. But I get nothing to the actual plugs. Can I can just scratch this whole wiring harness and bypass it making the key switch useless but at least I know it's not that jumble of wore causing a problem. I'll upload a video of what I'm talking about soon. Thanks
 
You can't get spark to the plugs with the distributor cap off.
Do you mean that you have a spark plug connected directly the the wire coming from the ignition coil tower and grounded to the engine block as a tester?
 
falcon_master":35tmqccd said:
I mean with everything back assembled properly and holding the spark plug out to ground I'm getting nothing.
Click to expand...
When you are opening the points with a screw driver by hand, you need to connect a single spark plug to the coil wire that normally goes to the center of the cap and see if the coil is putting out spark.
 
So lemme get this straight. I take the cap and rotor off the dizzy and then take a plug wore put one end in the coil and then another on the spark plug hold it to a ground and then open the points? What if it doesn't work thanks
 
to be clear, when testing the plug "to ground", the spark plug you are testing the spark with has to be grounded, i.e. touching the ground or it won't spark. Now if you were to take just the coil wire plugged into the coil and held the other end very near ground, it should jump to ground.
 
This may not be your problem, but when i first bought my car the solenoid went out, so i bought another at O'Reilly's, then i couldnt turn the car off. But i had replaced the battery and thought somehow maybe the ignition switch gor screwy, so i replaced that too. Well the car was dead as a doornail tge next day and wouldnt crank, then when hooked to jumpers it would automatically start witgout the key in the ignition. So maybe a bad solenoid? But it was new, but just in case i got a new new one, same prob.
After finally taking to a shop b/c i had enough of it, i was expecting a short in the harness somewhere. NOPE!! Crappy solenoid. Moral of the story, only buy nice solenoids and stay away from O'Reilly's haha.
This may be some prob, your battery may be dead from the new one. Makw sure its all charged

Good luck,
Ryan
 
Thanks I'll he sure to keep that in mind. My question is can I make my own circuit by taking the plus wire from the coil and running it directly to the battery and leaving the negative as is. My hope is this will effectively bypass the ignition switch And all the problems it's giving me cause it almost started a fire it sparked and smoke started coming luckily I was able to blow it out before the extinguisher was needed but I don't want that happen. I know it won't be practical as I'll have to get out of the vehicle to start it and turn it off but will this work. All I'm looking for is to know if this engine will make some noise or if it's a lost cause. Cuz I really don't have the money right now to replace the whole ignition system and all the wires just to find it has massive blow by and needs a rebuild.
 
Hi, yes, as a simple, temporary test, you can " hot wire" the car by using a jumper wire from the battery to the + coil post. Then you can jump the solenoid with a remote starter switch or using a heavy screwdriver touch the solenoid S post to the big post with the battery cable. Make sure you are in neutral or park.
Remember the points will be getting a full 12 volts, not the 6 volts they usually get, and of course the charging system is off, so don't go driving. Also remember to remove the jumper wire when you are done, even if the engine stalls. Good luck
 
Ok thanks. How do I lower it down to six volts then? Im planning on this being my solution until I can afford to go under there and rip out all that crappy wiring and start from scratch
,
 
Get an ignition Ballast resistor form your local auto parts store and wire it in from the battery to the + coil terminal.
Get something between 1.2 and 1.5 ohms.
Then you will need to run another wire from the "I" terminal on the starter solenoid to the + coil terminal to bypass the resistor when the starter is engaged.
Are you going to put a switch on the line from the battery so you can turn the ignition on/off?
 
Hi, as mentioned, a ballast resistor bolted down will serve the purpose.
Personally, I would not even think about ripping out the old wires.
You need a test light and then you can check the wires in a methodical way.
There are wires which should be hot all the time, some become hot when the key is turned on, and some others are only hot when the key is turned to start.
A wiring diagram is helpful, but I can trace a lot of wires with out one.
The main thing is to deal with one wire and one issue at a time. After a little success you will gain confidence and experience.
Many cars have much older wiring in them, and still work as well as when they were new.
Good luck
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top