4 main crank vs 7 main crank (just curious)

First off all 144’s and it's my belief that probably all of the USA made 170’s were also 4 main blocks. I can’t remember anytime ever seeing a 7 main 170 block or even of any prof of them existing with a picture showing one. The vast majority of the USA made 200 blocks are 7 mains (see the one exception below). Lastly every one of the USA made 250 blocks will also have 7 mains.

As for the 4 main 200’s they were made during the mid year of the 1963 year models. This was also around the USA special roll out of the 1963 1/2 Ford models that were built as part of Ford's, “Total Performance Program", this was in about February 1963.

These 200 4 main engines are ID'd as a T code in the Vin number. These first 200’s to the best of my knowledge were mostly only installed in the Ford Fairlane's or Mercury Medior's in the special 1963 1/2 year Models Ford rolled out here in the USA. But it's also possible a few would of also been installed in some of the Higher Trim Level 1963 1/2 Falcons and Comets IE like a Futura or S22's. They were also used throughout the 1964 model year production of those Falcons and Comets until the end of the 1964 Models I have also seen some recent examples of these Falcons. They have a Block Design Number of C4DE-6015-A

Basically these early 200’s were a only a short 1 & 1/2 year run before Ford started building the improved 7 main 200 blocks for use in the new 1965 Year Models such as the 1964 1/2 Mustang models (that were early production of the 1965's), happening about in February 1964. Externally the 4 main 200’s are not that hard to distinguish from a 170 engine, one sure way though is that like all the other 200 Six's they will also have 5 Freeze Plugs on the their exhaust side of the block. Another way for all of the 1960 to 1965 Ford and Mercury Small Six's though this may not be as as accurate is by their Valve Cover and Air Cleaner Paint Color that is only if they were apart for a rebuild or were repainted in a different Color. Edited

now I got it:
all 250s = 7 mains...

As I understand it, you can ID a 200 w/7 Mains by the Five Freeze Plugs.
Four Main 200’s had only Three Plugs.
170’s never had Seven Mains.
250 never had Four Mains.

an Australian story :

C4 date casting 200ci : (not cast in Australia- see below)

5 welch(freeze )plugs :

PS the silver tag is a stainless steel 'reconditioned engine by Ford Australia'- spot welded on to the block

used to send them back to Ford Australia for reconditioning . practice probably died out in the mid 70's



but 4 mains:



these were in ford Australia falcons 64, 65 and early 66 when you ordered a 200ci engine.

in Australia at that time they only cast 144ci and 170 ci blocks .

so ford Australia imported new 200ci engines - from Canada - to get around taffifs -as Australia and Canada were 'commonwealth countries and had better tarrif rates than from the US of A.

this block has an 1/4" steel adapter plate (actually has a ford Australia part number) to take the small 2.77 size bell housing out to what Australians called a 'wide block' which fitted the 3 speed autos (BorgWarner BW 35) they fitted into 1965 and 1966 cars (prior was good old 2.77 size bellhousing 2 speed fordomatic-althoigh I think you could still get the 2 speed auto in 65 and 66).


could NOT buy a 200ci manual falcon from ford Australia -all 200ci autos in 64,65 and early 66 presumably the 2.77 3 speed manual box was too weak


so most likely you would get a new 1966 falcon with a cast in 1964 block (C4) as they used up stocks .

ford Australia cast 'wide block 170's engines for the 3 speed autos and narrow block 144 + 170 engines for the 3 speed manuals and 2 speed autos .

all 144 and 170 and 200 were 4 mains

in approx. august 1966 ford Australia did all only 7 mains wide block 170's 200ci (for both manual and 3 speed auto boxes) and dropped the 144 engine size. and in 68 did 221 and 188 engines


all Australian designed /modified blocks start with ARC (5 for example) whereas USA designed /modified blocks start with C (5 for example)

AR = Australian requiremnets

difference narrow block (2.77 size bell housing (on right)) and the wide block -on left.

ok now channelling xtasy , but on a roll with info..

pic of Australian 2.77 3 speed manual box - bottom - can see gear shift levers on right hand side of box -as Australia is a right hand drive and the linkages would only get to the right hand side. so good old ford recast the lever mechanism- and presumeably the speedo cable side.

also clutch release lever was on the right hand side to meet up with the mechanical linkages

mid 66 on 3 speed manual box fitted as wide block engines . can see the larger physical size to take the torque of the later bigger six engines :and has clutch realease lever on the left - as used hydraulic master and slave cylinders

Thank you, gb 500 for the pics.
I thought that I saw pic of a 5 plug 4 main.

WoW,
that bottom pic in post 24 really shows the difference!

(Visit "X" over @ 4eyed pride...)

gb500 has shared all the pictures in the past. A really good contributor. All I've done is "stolen" his photo links and reproduced them in the past. Shamelessly.


PS.

Back in the Hood Chad.

Thanks to You, Perry and rbohm


:mrgreen:

xctasy":1q57zo48 said:

gb500 has shared all the pictures in the past. A really good contributor. All I've done is "stolen" his photo links and reproduced them in the past. Shamelessly.


PS.

Back in the Hood Chad.

Thanks to You, Perry and rbohm


:mrgreen:

Click to expand...

glad to have you back X, it was lonely here without you.

"Back in the Hood..."
Kouwell!
thnx 2 Perry, Rich.

X a big welcome back. Bill

Hi X.Glad to see ya back in the fold.Hope you and yours are doing well.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

gb500":dkw1qdim said:

an Australian story :

C4 date casting 200ci : (not cast in Australia- see below)

5 welch(freeze )plugs :

PS the silver tag is a stainless steel 'reconditioned engine by Ford Australia'- spot welded on to the block

used to send them back to Ford Australia for reconditioning . practice probably died out in the mid 70's

but 4 mains:

these were in ford Australia falcons 64, 65 and early 66 when you ordered a 200ci engine.

in Australia at that time they only cast 144ci and 170 ci blocks .

so ford Australia imported new 200ci engines - from Canada - to get around taffifs -as Australia and Canada were 'commonwealth countries and had better tarrif rates than from the US of A.

this block has an 1/4" steel adapter plate (actually has a ford Australia part number) to take the small 2.77 size bell housing out to what Australians called a 'wide block' which fitted the 3 speed autos (BorgWarner BW 35) they fitted into 1965 and 1966 cars (prior was good old 2.77 size bellhousing 2 speed fordomatic-althoigh I think you could still get the 2 speed auto in 65 and 66).


could NOT buy a 200ci manual falcon from ford Australia -all 200ci autos in 64,65 and early 66 presumably the 2.77 3 speed manual box was too weak


so most likely you would get a new 1966 falcon with a cast in 1964 block (C4) as they used up stocks .

ford Australia cast 'wide block 170's engines for the 3 speed autos and narrow block 144 + 170 engines for the 3 speed manuals and 2 speed autos .

all 144 and 170 and 200 were 4 mains

in approx. august 1966 ford Australia did all only 7 mains wide block 170's 200ci (for both manual and 3 speed auto boxes) and dropped the 144 engine size. and in 68 did 221 and 188 engines


all Australian designed /modified blocks start with ARC (5 for example) whereas USA designed /modified blocks start with C (5 for example)

AR = Australian requiremnets

difference narrow block (2.77 size bell housing (on right)) and the wide block -on left.

Click to expand...

thank you gb500 for those pictures of the early 200 4 main block showing much of its details, like the 5 freeze plugs that sure clears up some of their mystery! Just wondering if you might also have a picture of that early 200 block showing the bell housing pattern and the details of that Australian Ford made block plate's from a rear view? Also yes Welcome back Xctasy!

Brett has shown a full picture show and tell on the Aussie made, US 170 style block without the special seven bolt mains and a wide block adaptor to suit the 9.25" clutch or the Borg Warner 35 or modified bellhousing used to suit the imported TopLoader or C4 gearboxes.


Various rare US market 170's with the 2.77 trans had a block stamped Special with a seven bearing crank. In Australia for a year an a half, the late 1964 XP models had this 1/4" adaptor to make the Australian Chrysler 225 Valiant based 3 speed gearbox and later BW 35 fit up.


The gearbox was used by AMC, the Scottish built Hilman/Sunbeam/Singer, the later Volvo's, and Ford got added inventory after the collapse of Studebaker. BMC used it, and so it made economic sense to pirate local CKD production, and eventually, Borg Warner Australia tooled up for it. The Cortina later used it, but the British Zephryr used it too. A simple adaptor plate was the solution to fitting it up without casting changes to the US 144/170/200 engine pattern.

gb500":1v9mgnq1 said:

heres some pics of what i was talking about :
200ci
5 welch (core) plugs: C4 casting

4 mains:

and adapter plate to take the 'narrow' block out to wide block to fit a wide block Bw35 bellhousing:

also spaces out the starter motor as the aust wide block motors have larger dia flex plate (and flywheels)

Click to expand...

As CNC Dude says, even with a seven bearing steel crank, eventually, as you go up in capacity and past 2 hp per cube in particular, it starts to fail with severity within a short timespan, and in an in line six, its failure is pretty dramatic. V6's and V8's are much easier to beaf up in the crank department. The era of Buick Turbo V6 engines in Indy Cars, the 232 mph with loosely production based stock block engines like the one you could buy in your pre GM3800 3.8 liter LeSabre. The 90 or 60 degree V6 is the engine that proves long stroke four bearing cranks are indestructable. In line sixes push the friendship too much farther. On in line sixes, generally, its the combination of over lap (main bearing verses rod bearing diameter and its over lap due to stroke), and the total bearing support and the mass of the crank and its fillet radius are what governs how much cyclic "whip" the crank produces. As you go up in material density and go down in carbon content, the crank can cope with a lot more critical vibration, but you cannot repeat bend a steel rod in six places at even 5000 rpm and expect it to last for ever with even seven bearings.


Examples of Four bearing in liners which can really cope with insane amounts of punishment are:-

1. the Vauxhall Cresta PA PB PC/Ventora/Bedford JO 2.6, 2.8 to 3.3 liter sixes made between 1964 to late 1977 in the British and Belgian GM cars. It was only a 95 to 123 hp engine, but after you put two or three carbs on it, a camshaft and some headers, it would rev way past 7000 rpm with total reliablity in Evil Banger and sedan and Tin Top racing. I've only ever seen those steel 3-1/4 inch stroke cranks broken when the crank is accidently dropped on a cement floor.


2. All versions of the 170/196/225 Slant six Mopars, especially before they down graded to the cast iron crank, anything short stroke in particular. The 225 would blow four bearing cranks through the block past 280 flywheel horse power and 5000 rpm, but it proved that a 250 Ford probably has never really needed a seven bearing crank.


3. The four bearing Ferrari Tipo 044 3.0 liter 75-degree V12 412 T2 engine. 600 bhp from 16000 – 17000 rpm , with some rumors suggesting it could reach 760 bhp at 17000 rpm. Life was great at 12000 rpm plus with this engine. The crank was designed around the need to look after the main bearings, so they changed the firing order slightly and bank angle to cover off peak crank loads. All the 180 degree V12 Ferraris (wrongly called Boxer engines) from 1965 to 1980, excluding the seven bearing Flat 12 365 and 512 BB, had the four bearing crank....just like a 144 or 170 Falcon.

Proof?





Hmmm






4. Hydroracer here (who was about 90 in 2003) testified to the bored out versions of the 144 (156 cubic inches, 6 Amal carbed or Hilborne injected, and a common skiff engine) could make a whole season of 8600 rpm racing a four bearing nodular iron crank. After taking the Pumpkin Seed to a two-way average of 205.949 mph at Bonnville in 1960. These engines were well over 200 hp, probably 250 hp on alcohol.

Having a short 2.5" stroke makes the little 144 esentially the most reliable under rev's. The 170, near to it.