Question on building up new to me short block

63falconATX

Well-known member
Scored a great deal(free) on an E1 200 high mount block. It came as block, crank, pistons and rods assembled. It sat open upside down on a pallet in a shop for years. I was told it was a factory replacement short block used about 2k miles in who knows what and then sat in the car for many years. It was removed and paletted oily roughly 8-10 years ago. Who really knows though right?

At any rate, I'd like to put this into use now and though eventually want to redo the bottom, balance and get reduced cc pistons, I'm not in the position to do all that just yet. So I'm trying to avoid cracking the mains and rods at this point. I've repeatedly obtained average bore dimensions of 3.6824+/-.0002(seems small??) across all six at the mid point of the stroke. Measured .005" deck clearance. There is absolutely no ridge, no glazing and a beautiful cross hatch is clearly present. I really believe the low mile story to be true. This is really fresh looking.

I did remove a pattern of carbon from atop each piston indicating whatever head had been on it probably needed work. All cleaned now. The thing rotates with ease and looks really good.

My question is about some of the smaller dust and debris within the block. I've shop-vaced, blown, cleaned all I can(without water/pressure). Can I assume that will get carried away with a few early oil changes as say 150, 500 and 1500mi? It did sit for a lot of years and collected a lot of dust and crap.

Stupid question, Is there a way to sort of prime the mains and rod bearings while in the stand without flooding my shop with oil?

A few pics

Build tag and casting. Interesting date 9/85
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The deck and piston tops after cleaning and running an 80grit block over the deck.
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Although it seems to be a nice score, never assume it is ready to run. It was pulled out for a reason. Could have been wrecked, or could have eaten a cam lobe or two. Take a few more steps and pull the rod and main caps and inspect the bearings, take the oil pump apart also and inspect and re-lube the gears. That way you can also re-lube the journals and have a better piece of mind knowing if you found something awry, you can catch it now, and it will truly turn out to be a nice score.
 
Thanks for the reply CNC-Dude. You suggesting just popping the caps for a look? Not actually pulling anything if they are clean, slick and oily? There was no pump, installing new. There was only the block, crank, rods and piston. No sheet metal or anything. No other moving parts.

Did you have an opinion on my question about debris in the block?
 
Yes, just pop the caps apart and take a look unless you see evidence to lead you to go further. As for the debris, I had a similar situation some years ago where a friend had assembled a Pontiac 400 shortblock and used STP to coat the internals once he assembled the crank and rod/pistons. He then bagged it up and set it on the floor next to his clothes dryer. After a few years he was ready to finish it up and discovered the bag had torn and dryer lint completely coated the sticky goo the STP left on everything. Its really a hard question to answer without actually seeing it. If you can rub your hand across the crankshaft counterweights and get grit and debris on your hand, I would suggest taking the time to disassemble and clean everything thoroughly. If you can carefully do it you should be able to re-use all the bearings and only be out what time you have to put into it. Put fuel line over the rod bolts in case you decide the disassemble it.
 
Hi, you know that tag is from a Ford approved rebuilder. Ford contracted with local shops to rebuild many "assemblies" including engines, trannies, clutches,pressure plates, etc.
So assuming you have a rebuilt short block, I wonder why the pistons are not stamped oversize. As mentioned, I would pull some bearing caps. If the crank was turned, the bearings will be marked undersize. If the crank was not machined the bearings will be the original size. Good luck
 
start frm begining - U godid free so...disassemble, measure/ID, place assembly lube in proper spots, etc.
(can assure/choose the right cam 4 ur needs then too).

Do it right'n have a nice product, fewer costs'n headaches.

"...question, Is there a way to sort of prime the mains and rod bearings while in the stand without flooding my shop with oil?..."
Get any head U need (again specific) 4 ur application & when that's on chuck a drill w/da hex rod 4 ur oil pump thru the dizzy hole'n run some properly formulated break-in oil thru (head/block) to observe flow right B4 initial start-up.
If U follow the earlier procedures I've listed U can do those w/confidence; & once you've gotten 2 this point, do this one & - no oil on da floor!
 
I like free items like that. I have been wanting to get at least one late 200 like that for my inventory. For a future Mustang project with a T5.
 
Thank you all for the feedback. Not sure if my post was read entirely by some, but at any rate once again, there was no cam with this block. Pistons are not stamped oversize because it is stock bore as I noted previously. I'm pretty confident in the compatibility of my parts selection and spec.

For those concerned about the rest of the build and compatibility, the cam is CSC 274/274 112*. The head, pic below is a mid production(small valve) Aussie 250-2v which is headed to the machine shop this week. Holley 2300 350cfm, CI dual out headers, WC T-5 with .68 final drive to a 3.25 rear. Talking to Bill about re-curving the DUI.

Accurately measured piston dish @ 5.9cc, deck clearance @ .005", combustion chambers @ 52cc. The new Felpro head gasket measures .049" uncrushed(estimating .044 crushed) and looking at ~ 9.2:1 at this point though we may take some off the head. I don't want to go too far with that. Oh, and 1.6:1 rocker assy.

The head, intake, cam and double roller timing set were pulled from a suspect block. I'm replacing the lifters but re-using the cam at this point, It is in great shape and only used about 2k mi. The head shows clear signs of needing guides at a minimum.

Cheers!

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"... I'm pretty confident in the compatibility of my parts selection and spec...."
if U can C AND "read" them, 'all set' then.
Use assembly lube.

"..re-curving..."
is a very-end-of-the-road, last, kinda cherry on top consideration.

Thanks for the pic, posts'n bringin me along on ur build!
 
And the car for those interested. The reason for avoiding too much bottom end work at the moment is time being taken on the 2spd auto to T5 conversion. I want to drive it some, get a feel for what I might want beyond the stock bottom and go from there.

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One way you could clean up the short block without disassembly is to use a compressed air type solvent sprayer. The one I have looks like this https://source4industries.com/lincoln-s ... gKnMfD_BwE

You would definitely need to do a good pre lube afterwards though. Great looking 1963 1/2 Falcon fastback (they are a big favorite of mine) good luck (y) :nod: edited
 
That is one nice Falcon! Inside and out one of the best I have seen.
 
I went for a total tear down and I'm glad I did. Thanks for the push. I found the rope seal to be shriveled and nearly non-existent. Bearings were warn pretty well, getting down to base metal on a couple spots.

Luckily the crank and the block measure up quite nice.

Question now is on rings, not planning a trip to the machine shop with bores within .0015" out of round and .0005" taper.

Do you think I can get away with moly faced or even plasma faced rings or stick with cast?

Cheers!
 
Yes use a ball type hone and then install a new set of standard moly rings. You might have or a do it yourself polish job on the crank journals if you can catch a finger nail or feel any roughness. Good luck (y) :nod:
 
Thanks bubba, what do you think the limit of out-of-roundess is in a 200 when considering moly rings?

bubba22349":2vamrqg4 said:
Yes use a ball type hone and then install a new set of standard moly rings. You might have or a do it yourself polish job on the crank journals if you can catch a finger nail or feel any roughness. Good luck (y) :nod:
 
The out of round limit for a moly ring to seal is about .008 to .010 with about .005 bore taper. For a low budget rebuild using what you have, you shouldn't have any trouble getting your 200 short block to last from about 60,000 to 80,000 miles on a rering. Good luck (y) :nod:
 
Can you check and tell us if the crank is drilled for a standard pilot bearing...I thought a member came across one that was not, but I do not see that as happening.
Thank you.
 
63falconATX":u4po86oa said:
The head, intake, cam and double roller timing set were pulled from a suspect block.
One more pic?
Can U post an "Intake shot"? The others R excellent.
A poster on here got an Oz 2v but no intake w/it.
 
Moly rings do require a finer finish hone than cast rings do, so you could experience ring seal issues if the finish is to rough.
 
bubba22349":itfemsik said:
The out of round limit for a moly ring to seal is about .008 to .010 with about .005 bore taper. For a low budget rebuild using what you have, you shouldn't have any trouble getting your 200 short block to last from about 60,000 to 80,000 miles on a rering. Good luck (y) :nod:
.008 to .010? I know Ford published limits on the 200 at .005” and .010” but I had just assumed that was for straight up cast rings. My bores are looking pretty sweet in this light.

drag-200stang":itfemsik said:
Can you check and tell us if the crank is drilled for a standard pilot bearing...I thought a member came across one that was not, but I do not see that as happening.
Thank you.
Pic attached. I haven’t gotten as far as to get or research my pilot bearing but the dimension in my crank are (3 IDs) roughly 1” for the inner most bore, followed 1.375” and finally a 1.55” outermost. What does that tell you?
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chad":itfemsik said:
One more pic?
Can U post an "Intake shot"? The others R excellent.
A poster on here got an Oz 2v but no intake w/it.
Chad, it came with the original with Holley 2V adapter and an unused CI 4V. I might make the CI available but I think it needs work to fit the Aussie cast iron head. #3 and #4 appear to have been pushed towards center on the CI though it looks like studs line up, I haven’t confirmed that. I have confimed 1,2 5 and 6 line up. See the pic where the aussi speed heat soak spells out the issue with 3 and 4.
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CNC-Dude":itfemsik said:
Moly rings do require a finer finish hone than cast rings do, so you could experience ring seal issues if the finish is to rough.
Yeah, I get that. The crux of it all. I’m going to break glaze with a 320 ball and see what happens.
 
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