2V Conversion Checklist

M

Matthew68

Well-known member
Hi Folks,

I sourced a 78 250 head, it arrived just the other day. I've been slowly compiling parts for the 2V conversion (68 200ci Mustang), and I'd like some confirmation that I had all the right supplemental parts for the conversion, as well as all the machine shop checklist. I have the performance handbook and have read it cover to cover, so I'm fairly confident in my machine shop needs, but moreso looking for the extra parts for the conversion.

Machine Shop Work
  • Valve Job (includes backcut intake, 3 angle intake/exhaust, magnaflux, check spring height and reset/shim as needed
  • Install Viton Seals
  • CC combustion chamber to retain 68 200 chamber size for compression. Mill as needed.
  • Hog out carb bore for 2V adapter

Am I missing anything else? My budget does not allow for port work or much other expensive items. If I'm missing something critical, please let me know. I recevied a quote of $450 plus the additional labor for the 2V conversion. He needs to see some pictures to verify how to do it so that cost is unknown at this time. The cost also includes a max charge for milling the head if need be.

Additional Parts Needed
  • Autolite 2100 1.08 venturi - have this
  • Lokar Throttle Cable - have this
  • Header - have this (I know it's not necessary for the 2V)
  • Imposter Dual 2" Exhaust - should be here in the next week or two (again, I know not necessary)
  • DUI Distributor - have this recurved and advance limiter (thanks Bill/wsa)
  • V8 accelerator pedal assembly - need this
  • Throttle Linkage at the carb - need this. Am clueless here.
  • New plugs/wires - need these
  • Viton Seals (.500) - need these
  • ARP Studs - need these but unclear of the differences in the set


Questions
1. Do I need new pushrods?
2. Do I need new lifters while the head is off?
2.5. Do I need new springs and retainers?
3. What can I use to clean the deck of the block? I am not pulling it.
4. I'm having trouble finding a bracket for the throttle cable. I'm not a machinst, nor do I know any metal fabricators. I've searched the forum and I read of people who make their own - I'm not one of the guys that can do that. Any other options out there?
5. Did I miss anything else?

As always, appreciate your wisdom.

Cheers,
Matthew
 
Get magnafluxed before you do anything. After brazing the low spots on log & installing 3-4 exhaust divider have it magnafluxed again. If ok proceed.
 
wsa111":11io92tk said:
Get magnafluxed before you do anything. After brazing the low spots on log & installing 3-4 exhaust divider have it magnafluxed again. If ok proceed.
Click to expand...

Magnafluxing will be first on the list. I'm reading lots of mixed reviews on the port divider. Haven't made up my mind either way just yet.

Cheers,
Matthew
 
its nice to direct the gasses into that header'n keep the gasket intact.
No header/no need (may B).

"... brazing the low spots on log ..."
For any pic - get the pic on here to the furnace weld log person so they know what a good 2v conversion job is.
We got more pic of bad, than good jobs here I believe. Some braze/fill B4 fitting adapter & milling 4 carb placement &
this avoids later difficulties.
(y)
 
Howdy Back Matt:

It sounds like a pretty comprehensive list. The linkage and bracketry is not all that mysterious. Keep checking on this forum. It's been done a few times here..

IIWIYS, I'd be looking into 1.5" exhaust valves. They will add another C note to the pocket book, but with your other details you should consider them now while the head is off and in the machine shop.

I know you are focusing on the head at this point but have you considered a future cam upgrade? IF not, it is worth considering now and in planning for the complete package.

Good luck and keep up posted on your progress.

Adios, David
 
CZLN6":5m6ut51z said:
Howdy Back Matt:

It sounds like a pretty comprehensice list. The linkage and bracketry is not all that mysterious. Keep checking on this forum. It's been done a few times here..

IIWIYS, I'd be looking into 1.5" exhaust valves. They will add another C note to the pocket book, but with your other details you should consider them now while the head is off and in the machine shop.

I know you are focusing on the head at this point but have you considered a future cam upgrade? IF not, it is worth considering now and in planning for the complete package.

Good luck and keep up posted on your progress.

Adios, David
Click to expand...

Hi David,

Thanks for your insight. I'll keep digging into the forum. I've done some exhaustive searching, and most what I've found has been custom. I did find a bellcrank as a possible option, but that is new to me so will require a little more digging on how to sort through it. In good time.

With the 1.5" exhaust valves, will it make a large enough difference to warrant the extra cash? If so, I'm not in a huge rush and can save up a little for it. If it's negligible difference, that C note might be better spent elsewhere.

In regards to the cam, I want to do and have thought about it, but I'm limited in my tools and know-how. I don't have an engine crane or stand, nor do I have the space, knowledge, or time to spend doing a remove and install (properly, with degreeing). I struggle with how I can accomplish a cam install at a local speed shop that doesn't result in a tow. I've also asked the few classic car people I know, none of them have performed this work themselves. It's something I want to do absolutely, but struggle with coordinating.

Cheers,
Matthew
 
Matthew68 said:
I missing anything else? My budget does not allow for port work or much other expensive items. If I'm missing something critical


Questions
1. Do I need new pushrods?
2. Do I need new lifters while the head is off?
2.5. Do I need new springs and retainers?
3. What can I use to clean the deck of the block? I am not pulling it.
4. I'm having trouble finding a bracket for the throttle cable. I'm not a machinst, nor do I know any metal fabricators. I've searched the forum and I read of people who make their own - I'm not one of the guys that can do that. Any other options out there?
5. Did I miss anything else?

As always, appreciate your wisdom.

Cheers,
Matthew
Click to expand...

1. You don’t need to change the push rods unless there are signs of damage. Ie bent or extreme wear. If possible put them back in the same place they came from.

2. Usually there is no need to change lifters if your keeping the same cam. If you remove them make sure to inspect the bottom surfaces condition for excessive wear if they look good lube and reuse keeping it on the same cam lobe.

3. I use a good gasket scraper and follow up with a sanding block with 80 grit.

4. You can sometimes use the later factory Ford brackets / parts from those cars models that used throdle cables like 1969 up to 1983 and somtimes to 1985. A few examples are Mustangs, Mavericks, Comets, Fairmonts, and more. Also other brands might also work too even off some imports but takes some detective work to find.

5. Have your machinist use a bowl cutter to open up the valve bowls any other bowl blending is also good as far as you can reach into the ports. Consider installing a set of V8 valve springs even you are planing on staying with the stock cam this will give you a little better performance and also add the nessisary retainers to fit info is in the Falcon Performance handbook. Mill the head atleast the amount of the difference of new head gasket thickness and the current steel shim gasket about .025 for more performance depending on the fuel grade you plan optimize the combustion chamber size. If you are for sure planing on a cam change then forget the valve springs until then. Good luck on your build up (y) :nod: Edited
 
Howdy Back Matt:

On the 1.5" exhaust valves, with added compression and a header, I would say that they are worth a wait while you gather some cash.

On the port divider, my advice is to go with the divider. The slight gain in power given the low cost is a no brainer. Those who have had trouble with them coming loose an rattling took short cuts on installation and paid the price. Get it, install it properly and enjoy the cheapest power upgrade, less carb heat, and less chance of a header gasket blow-out.

On the cam, I understand. A cam install is a place where you may want some expert help in doing it right. Do I understand that you are doing the head so that you are planning on the least down time? If so, and assuming that the block is in good serviceable shape, no problem, but you might want to consider future plans when deciding on CR, gearing and other details of the project. A cam upgrade at some future point is a variable to consider.

AKT- replacing your stock 1.5:1 rocker arms with 1.6:1 adjustable rocker arms is an easy bolt-on upgrade to gain about .030" cam lift and a slight increase in duration a .050" valve lift. A 1.6:1 rocker set is expensive but could be added any time later, after your wallet heals up. When you do the cam upgrade you could sell the 1.6 rocker arm set to help offset the cam
expenses. Just a thought.

Keep it coming.

Adios, David
 
bubba22349":kobkp2oh said:
Matthew68 said:
I missing anything else? My budget does not allow for port work or much other expensive items. If I'm missing something critical


Questions
1. Do I need new pushrods?
2. Do I need new lifters while the head is off?
2.5. Do I need new springs and retainers?
3. What can I use to clean the deck of the block? I am not pulling it.
4. I'm having trouble finding a bracket for the throttle cable. I'm not a machinst, nor do I know any metal fabricators. I've searched the forum and I read of people who make their own - I'm not one of the guys that can do that. Any other options out there?
5. Did I miss anything else?

As always, appreciate your wisdom.

Cheers,
Matthew
Click to expand...

1. You don’t need to change the push rods unless there are signs of damage. Ie bent or extreme wear. If possible put them back in the same place they came from.

2. Usually there is no need to change lifters if your keeping the same cam. If you remove them make sure to inspect the bottom surfaces condition for excessive wear if they look good lube and reuse keeping it on the same cam lobe.

3.
Click to expand...


Thanks, Bubba. I think you might have been cut off though, or had a typo.
 
CZLN6":2d0i9kak said:
Howdy Back Matt:

On the 1.5" exhaust valves, with added compression and a header, I would say that they are worth a wait while you gather some cash.

On the port divider, my advice is to go with the divider. The slight gain in power given the low cost is a no brainer. Those who have had trouble with them coming loose an rattling took short cuts on installation and paid the price. Get it, install it properly and enjoy the cheapest power upgrade, less carb heat, and less chance of a header gasket blow-out.

On the cam, I understand. A cam install is a place where you may want some expert help in doing it right. Do I understand that you are doing the head so that you are planning on the least down time? If so, and assuming that the block is in good serviceable shape, no problem, but you might want to consider future plans when deciding on CR, gearing and other details of the project. A cam upgrade at some future point is a variable to consider.

AKT- replacing your stock 1.5:1 rocker arms with 1.6:1 adjustable rocker arms is an easy bolt-on upgrade to gain about .030" cam lift and a slight increase in duration a .050" valve lift. A 1.6:1 rocker set is expensive but could be added any time later, after your wallet heals up. When you do the cam upgrade you could sell the 1.6 rocker arm set to help offset the cam
expenses. Just a thought.

Keep it coming.

Adios, David
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice on the port divider. It's relatively low cost, so that's a positive in my eyes. I'll keep the valve increase size in mind, I'm not in a huge rush to have the head work done. Are my current intake valves (78 head) good, or should I consider larger ones?

The car is not a daily, so I'm not all that worried about downtime. The 78 head I have is off the car currently, with the stock 68 200 setup in the car running. My goal was to do the head work, remove the old head, drop the new head on - all in my garage. With taking the car somewhere for the cam install, I would need to take the current head off, tow it there (or drive it there and have them remove), cam install, have them install the 78 head and break the cam in at the shop properly. It seems like a lot of additional cost for labor to remove/reset the old and new head that I could do.

If I had the shop install the cam, could I tow it back home and do the rest of the head myself? Or is it advisable to have them do everything?

Thanks for the option on the rocker arms. Unfortunately, it's out of my budget. I think I would prefer to go the cam route, as I wouldn't be planning any further work once the 78 head is on. A bolt on upgrade like new rockers down the road is feasible, but would prefer to keep everything intact if possible.

Cheers,
Matthew
 
:rolflmao: yes Matthew, I was trying to do some of that above post while waiting for a Dr. appointment so didn't get to finish it. I edited and finished it just now. Good luck (y) :nod:
 
Nice to hear about your project and Mustang. Another suggestion that is maybe not doable for you right now but if you found another 200 block you could rebuild that with new cam and the head work you described and just drop in the new motor. Take the time to get exactly what you want while still driving what you have currently.
And definitely get the Falcon Performance Handbook it will get you up to speed quickly.
 
Howdy Back Matthew:

Yes, the 1.75" intake valves on the '78 head are fine. Larger intakes are expensive and would require porting and pocket shaping to accommodate. Also chamber shrouding lessen their effectiveness.

Keep it coming.

adios, David
 
Thanks all, for your guidance. I'll consider the larger exhaust valves, along with a cam upgrade (which will be a little more difficult given my current roadblocks). I'm anxious to get some movement on my vehicle!

In the meantime, I'll continue to source my remaining parts needed.

David - in regards to the 1.5" exhaust valves, is VI the only seller for these 1.5" exhaust valves that fit our sixes? I noticed they are SI Port valves. Do these valves still require machining for Viton seals? Would it be necessary (or advisable) to purchase the SI Port 1.75" valves as well or am I OK with using the 1.75" valves that are currently on the head?
 
bmbm40":2onpbirf said:
Nice to hear about your project and Mustang. Another suggestion that is maybe not doable for you right now but if you found another 200 block you could rebuild that with new cam and the head work you described and just drop in the new motor. Take the time to get exactly what you want while still driving what you have currently.
And definitely get the Falcon Performance Handbook it will get you up to speed quickly.
Click to expand...

Thanks, bmbm.

My only struggle is I don't have the heavy equipment (stand and hoist) to move this stuff around easily. I'm a little tight on space, too. However, I do like this idea and it's not something I will ignore entirely, it just adds up (quite like everything else)!

Cheers,
Matthew
 
bubba22349":315g8hia said:
Matthew68 said:
I missing anything else? My budget does not allow for port work or much other expensive items. If I'm missing something critical


Questions
1. Do I need new pushrods?
2. Do I need new lifters while the head is off?
2.5. Do I need new springs and retainers?
3. What can I use to clean the deck of the block? I am not pulling it.
4. I'm having trouble finding a bracket for the throttle cable. I'm not a machinst, nor do I know any metal fabricators. I've searched the forum and I read of people who make their own - I'm not one of the guys that can do that. Any other options out there?
5. Did I miss anything else?

As always, appreciate your wisdom.

Cheers,
Matthew
Click to expand...

1. You don’t need to change the push rods unless there are signs of damage. Ie bent or extreme wear. If possible put them back in the same place they came from.

2. Usually there is no need to change lifters if your keeping the same cam. If you remove them make sure to inspect the bottom surfaces condition for excessive wear if they look good lube and reuse keeping it on the same cam lobe.

3. I use a good gasket scraper and follow up with a sanding block with 80 grit.

4. You can sometimes use the later factory Ford brackets / parts from those cars models that used throdle cables like 1969 up to 1983 and somtimes to 1985. A few examples are Mustangs, Mavericks, Comets, Fairmonts, and more. Also other brands might also work too even off some imports but takes some detective work to find.

5. Have your machinist use a bowl cutter to open up the valve bowls any other bowl blending is also good as far as you can reach into the ports. Consider installing a set of V8 valve springs even you are planing on staying with the stock cam this will give you a little better performance and also add the nessisary retainers to fit info is in the Falcon Performance handbook. Mill the head atleast the amount of the difference of new head gasket thickness and the current steel shim gasket about .025 for more performance depending on the fuel grade you plan optimize the combustion chamber size. If you are for sure planing on a cam change then forget the valve springs until then. Good luck on your build up (y) :nod: Edited
Click to expand...

Thanks, bubba.

1. I'll stick with my stock pushrods unless damage/wear noted.

2. I asked about the lifters because they are a little noisy. My oil pressure seems good (15psi hot when braking, 40 psi when cruising), but when I come to a stop, I can hear some metal lifter noise. Wasn't sure if that meant they were worn. I'll pull and inspect, and likely post pictures and ask for guidance.

3. Thank you. I'll pick up a gasket scraper and the sanding block. I'm assuming very light pressure, followed by compressed air to blow the remnants off.

4. Thanks for the tips on the brackets. I'll continue my search, inlcuding eBay. Unfortunately, in my neck of the woods (Cincinnati), the boneyards don't keep the classics around long and I struggle finding parts locally.

5. I've read through the Falcon Performance book and it seems there are two to choose from. Is one more desirable than the other? I'm looking at the 66.5-68.5 289/302 valve springs OR the 73-78 302 exhaust springs.

Cheers,
Matthew
 
I haven’t done a side by side comparison of those two springs. If I had one of each could test them on my valve spring compressor to see what kind of installed seat pressure each has. Good luck (y) :nod:
 
Howdy Back Matt and All:

The stock 1.75" intake valves are fine for most applications. The Stainless Steel valves (SSI) offer just a little more security in high stress engine situations.

Machining for the Viton is on the top of the valve guides on the head. Both the stock 1.75" intakes and the SSI exhaust valves are fine with the viton seals.

Adios, David
 
Remember to have the port divider installed as a interference fit. I also pinned it from the top. Doesn't even budge.
 

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Just got back from my machine shop to talk about cost for the 2V conversion. He didn’t wince at it, and gave me a better price than what I listed above.

He did have one question he was hoping you all could help me answer. If I Mill the 78 head to bring the chamber size down from 62cc to 52cc for my 68 200 block, what does that do in terms of pushrod length? Do I need 200 push rods or 250 pushrods? With a stock non-adjustable rocker assembly, I’m trying to sort through that. Or will it need to be measured depending on how much, if any, needs to be milled?

Cheers,
Matthew
 
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