67 mustang - 300 head vs 200 head

Moderator: Mod Squad

thestang
Registered User
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:22 pm

67 mustang - 300 head vs 200 head

Post #1 by thestang » Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:41 pm

Hey guys i am trying to upgrade my cars performance and will soon added forced induction.

I really want to put a 300ci head in but dont know what to do or if i would need make mods. My car has a new brake system and new suspension. Please any advice

What do you think i should do buy a new 200ci head:
https://sdparts.com/i-24080251-atk-2f29 ... SYEALw_wcB

Or a 300ci:

https://www.jegs.com/i/ATK-Engines/059/ ... hlEALw_wcB

User avatar
bubba22349
Global Moderator
Posts: 8321
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Flagstaff, Az. 86005 near the old Route 66

Re: 67 mustang - 300 head vs 200 head

Post #2 by bubba22349 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:56 pm

A 300 / 4.9 big block six cyLinder head won't fit on a 200 / 3.3 engine or any of the other small block six engines. Good luck on your project build :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

thestang
Registered User
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:22 pm

Re: 67 mustang - 300 head vs 200 head

Post #3 by thestang » Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:14 pm

bubba22349 wrote:A 300 / 4.9 big block six cyLinder head won't fit on a 200 / 3.3 engine or any of the other small block six engines. Good luck on your project build :thumbup: :nod:


What are my options :(? Is
There any head that would fit as an upgrade

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 3972
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

Re: 67 mustang - 300 head vs 200 head

Post #4 by chad » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:00 pm

"The Ford...6 Cyl Performance Handbook" frm Matt at vintage inlines dot com (20 $ ?) sounds like a resource U could really use. While waiting 4 delivery ck the above tech archive (@ big blue bx w/crossed screwdriver/wrench). All ur Qs should B answ there.
After gettin up to speed U will have more specific info on the end product U seek.
At that point we can really aid U in the particulars.
ID all ur components 1st (again the Handbook helps) so U know where U R @ now. If U have been drivin the vehicle awhile U can get an idea of where U wanna go frm here (80% of ur use conditions).

Kinda like a house. When U 1st buy/move in it's better to "live it" awhile insteada just tearin out the kitchen'n throwin in a new 1. Over the period U research what's out there, C how usable the kitchen (& whole house) is, take time to redesign a useful to you one, save money, etc. Hope that's not too patronizing. I just see alot of vehicles ruined around here when a knowledgable, thoughtful approach is not used. Money'n time waisted & worse (as I have alot of care/enjoyment of these rigs) the vehicles themselves.

"...will soon added forced induction."
We have a forum on this site 4 that.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

bmbm40
Registered User
Posts: 1099
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:25 pm
Location: Carson City, NV

Re: 67 mustang - 300 head vs 200 head

Post #5 by bmbm40 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:30 pm

Check out the vintage inlines highest performance available aluminum head. It is totally awesome.
66 Bronco-1970 250, NV3550, DSII, 4 turn ps, uncut, 1" bl, 2.5" sl, front disc, twin stick D 20, 30 x 9.50
NEXT- direct mount 1.08 on D8 head, power brakes, rear limited slip, 3G, electric fan, electric upgrades, custom curved DSII, header, 31" tires

New guy? Get the Falcon Performance Handbook and Ford six high performance parts from https://vintageinlines.com

User avatar
StarDiero75
Registered User
Posts: 466
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:39 pm

Re: 67 mustang - 300 head vs 200 head

Post #6 by StarDiero75 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:12 am

But if you cant afford the $2100 aluminum head, you can modify a 250 l6 head for a 3x1 setup.
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200 and 3.03 column shift, 8" rear 2.8 (Yes I know the gearing sucks), weber 32/36, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

CZLN6
VIP Member
Posts: 3228
Joined: Fri Nov 15, 2002 11:07 am
Location: Idaho Falls, Id
Contact:

Re: 67 mustang - 300 head vs 200 head

Post #7 by CZLN6 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:16 am

Howdy The Stang and all:

If you are going to forced induction why are you considering changing heads. Forced induction will take care of flow issues. What is your engines current condition? Year? Miles? Transmission?

FYI a 1980 200/250 cylinder head will offer you all the best that FoMoCo has to offer. The 200 head you posted seems expensive to me.

Where are you located?

Adios, David
co-author of the Falcon Performance Handbook
http://www.falcon6handbook.com/

thestang
Registered User
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:22 pm

Re: 67 mustang - 300 head vs 200 head

Post #8 by thestang » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:37 am

CZLN6 wrote:Howdy The Stang and all:

If you are going to forced induction why are you considering changing heads. Forced induction will take care of flow issues. What is your engines current condition? Year? Miles? Transmission?

FYI a 1980 200/250 cylinder head will offer you all the best that FoMoCo has to offer. The 200 head you posted seems expensive to me.

Where are you located?

Adios, David


All original 67 mustang. The headgasket is like melted but doesnt leak yet so i wasthinking about replacing it.

I live in Nj

thestang
Registered User
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:22 pm

Re: 67 mustang - 300 head vs 200 head

Post #9 by thestang » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:38 am


CZLN6
VIP Member
Posts: 3228
Joined: Fri Nov 15, 2002 11:07 am
Location: Idaho Falls, Id
Contact:

Re: 67 mustang - 300 head vs 200 head

Post #10 by CZLN6 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:18 am

Howdy Back:

Nope. The 240 and 300 six cylinder engines are a different engine. The 240 was used in full size Ford cars and the 300 was used in pickups and vans. These engines are physically larger and heavier the the small six engines which includes 144, 170, 200 and 250 engines. About the only item that is interchangeable is the one barrel carburetors.

Adios, David
co-author of the Falcon Performance Handbook
http://www.falcon6handbook.com/

thestang
Registered User
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:22 pm

Re: 67 mustang - 300 head vs 200 head

Post #11 by thestang » Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:37 am

CZLN6 wrote:Howdy Back:

Nope. The 240 and 300 six cylinder engines are a different engine. The 240 was used in full size Ford cars and the 300 was used in pickups and vans. These engines are physically larger and heavier the the small six engines which includes 144, 170, 200 and 250 engines. About the only item that is interchangeable is the one barrel carburetors.

Adios, David


Okay so what donor car could i look for that would have a 250ci cylinder head?

User avatar
bubba22349
Global Moderator
Posts: 8321
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Flagstaff, Az. 86005 near the old Route 66

Re: 67 mustang - 300 head vs 200 head

Post #12 by bubba22349 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:58 am

Looks like it's a typo "240 head" in your above post by the pictures it shows a 1969 to 74 "250" head yes its probably a little better head than you have now. Though if your going to buy a head and change it out then why get the one that "CZLN6" recommended to you? In a stock replacement cyclinder head for your 200 it is the best stock Ford head you will be able to find. https://www.jegs.com/i/ATK-Engines/059/2F66/10002/-1

Also Remember in your head search theat the later model 200 and 250 heads are both identical. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 3972
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

unKnown increased performance

Post #13 by chad » Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:20 pm

Post #4 by chad » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:00 pm

Gotta start @ the beginning:
"The Ford...6 Cyl Performance Handbook" frm Matt at vintage inlines dot com (20 $ ?) sounds like a resource U could really use. While waiting 4 delivery ck the above tech archive (@ big blue bx w/crossed screwdriver/wrench). All ur Qs should B answ there.
After gettin up to speed U will have more specific info on the end product U seek. UR Qs will B more specific/informed. We can B more of a resource 2 U. There R no short cuts to quality results.

Ford goes by 'families' not small block / big block like chebby.
The i6 family (1960 - '96) is bifurcated into 144, 170, 200, 250 as the small 6; and the big six 240 and 300.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

thestang
Registered User
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:22 pm

Re: 67 mustang - 300 head vs 200 head

Post #14 by thestang » Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:25 pm

bubba22349 wrote:Looks like it's a typo "240 head" in your above post by the pictures it shows a 1969 to 74 "250" head yes its probably a little better head than you have now. Though if your going to buy a head and change it out then why get the one that "CZLN6" recommended to you? In a stock replacement cyclinder head for your 200 it is the best stock Ford head you will be able to find. https://www.jegs.com/i/ATK-Engines/059/2F66/10002/-1

Also Remember in your head search theat the later model 200 and 250 heads are both identical. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:


So you like the

https://www.jegs.com/i/ATK-Engines/059/2F66/10002/-1

Vs the 250ci?

thestang
Registered User
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:22 pm

Re: 67 mustang - 300 head vs 200 head

Post #15 by thestang » Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:35 pm

Also is the 250ci head a bolt on drop in? And what would i need to do to make it work?

User avatar
rocklord
Registered User
Posts: 1258
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 11:25 pm
Location: Hurricane, WV

Re: 67 mustang - 300 head vs 200 head

Post #16 by rocklord » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:49 pm

The 80-84 200 head that bubba linked to at Jeggs is the best head to have, even over the 250 head. The 200 head has the largest intake log volume, largest stock valves, and hardened valve seats. It has the largest chamber volume, so if you are planning forced induction, so much the better.

I also recommend the Performance Handbook.
Dan

Currently Own
1965 Mustang, 200CID, 3Spd
1964 Corvair Coupe, 164CID, 140HP, 4Spd
1961 Corvair Lakewood wagon, 145CID, 80HP, 2Spd Powerglide Auto.
2017 BMW X3, 3.0L Dual Turbo, 300HP, 8-Spd Auto

thestang
Registered User
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:22 pm

Re: 67 mustang - 300 head vs 200 head

Post #17 by thestang » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:01 pm

rocklord wrote:The 80-84 200 head that bubba linked to at Jeggs is the best head to have, even over the 250 head. The 200 head has the largest intake log volume, largest stock valves, and hardened valve seats. It has the largest chamber volume, so if you are planning forced induction, so much the better.

I also recommend the Performance Handbook.


Would that be a direct bolt on? Or drop in with no mods?

User avatar
rocklord
Registered User
Posts: 1258
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 11:25 pm
Location: Hurricane, WV

Re: 67 mustang - 300 head vs 200 head

Post #18 by rocklord » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:32 pm

Yes and No.

Yes, the 80-84 200 head will bolt directly on your 67 engine, the 250 head will also.

The No side of the equation is the size of combustion chamber of both the 200 and 250 heads.

The original head on your 67 had a combustion chamber size around 53cc. Both the 250 head and later 200 heads had 62cc combustion chambers. Ford was able to keep the compression ratios (CR) high by varying the recess in the piston.

The chamber volume of any head you purchase will depend on how much has been milled off the mating surface. When you purchase another head, you will have to CC the combustion chamber to determine if it needs remilled, or if the pistons in your engine need smaller recesses.
Dan

Currently Own
1965 Mustang, 200CID, 3Spd
1964 Corvair Coupe, 164CID, 140HP, 4Spd
1961 Corvair Lakewood wagon, 145CID, 80HP, 2Spd Powerglide Auto.
2017 BMW X3, 3.0L Dual Turbo, 300HP, 8-Spd Auto

thestang
Registered User
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:22 pm

Re: 67 mustang - 300 head vs 200 head

Post #19 by thestang » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:44 pm

rocklord wrote:Yes and No.

Yes, the 80-84 200 head will bolt directly on your 67 engine, the 250 head will also.

The No side of the equation is the size of combustion chamber of both the 200 and 250 heads.

The original head on your 67 had a combustion chamber size around 53cc. Both the 250 head and later 200 heads had 62cc combustion chambers. Ford was able to keep the compression ratios (CR) high by varying the recess in the piston.

The chamber volume of any head you purchase will depend on how much has been milled off the mating surface. When you purchase another head, you will have to CC the combustion chamber to determine if it needs remilled, or if the pistons in your engine need smaller recesses.


What if i wanted low compression ratios damn. I need start studying. So id have to take the whole engine out?

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 3972
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

unKnown Performance upgrade Qs

Post #20 by chad » Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:14 pm

"...start studying..."
then ask, we can help but a tutoring is tough.
Keep at it.
the Handbook, tech archive.

viewforum.php?f=94

viewforum.php?f=22

viewforum.php?f=48

(I'm not bein 'mean') just da opposite!
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

thestang
Registered User
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:22 pm

Re: unKnown increased performance

Post #21 by thestang » Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:49 pm

chad wrote:Post #4 by chad » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:00 pm

Gotta start @ the beginning:
"The Ford...6 Cyl Performance Handbook" frm Matt at vintage inlines dot com (20 $ ?) sounds like a resource U could really use. While waiting 4 delivery ck the above tech archive (@ big blue bx w/crossed screwdriver/wrench). All ur Qs should B answ there.
After gettin up to speed U will have more specific info on the end product U seek. UR Qs will B more specific/informed. We can B more of a resource 2 U. There R no short cuts to quality results.

Ford goes by 'families' not small block / big block like chebby.
The i6 family (1960 - '96) is bifurcated into 144, 170, 200, 250 as the small 6; and the big six 240 and 300.


Dawg the book is out of stock and i wont pay double the price to
Get it.

Curious what would happen if i just installed the head wothout milling it?

thestang
Registered User
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:22 pm

Re: 67 mustang - 300 head vs 200 head

Post #22 by thestang » Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:06 pm

rocklord wrote:Yes and No.

Yes, the 80-84 200 head will bolt directly on your 67 engine, the 250 head will also.

The No side of the equation is the size of combustion chamber of both the 200 and 250 heads.

The original head on your 67 had a combustion chamber size around 53cc. Both the 250 head and later 200 heads had 62cc combustion chambers. Ford was able to keep the compression ratios (CR) high by varying the recess in the piston.

The chamber volume of any head you purchase will depend on how much has been milled off the mating surface. When you purchase another head, you will have to CC the combustion chamber to determine if it needs remilled, or if the pistons in your engine need smaller recesses.


Rick i need your help bro. What would happen if i dont mill it?

Can you text me that way i could just text you my few questions that way i can order the head today?

929 255 0197

User avatar
rocklord
Registered User
Posts: 1258
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 11:25 pm
Location: Hurricane, WV

Re: unKnown increased performance

Post #23 by rocklord » Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:40 pm

thestang wrote:
chad wrote:Post #4 by chad » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:00 pm

Gotta start @ the beginning:
"The Ford...6 Cyl Performance Handbook" frm Matt at vintage inlines dot com (20 $ ?) sounds like a resource U could really use. While waiting 4 delivery ck the above tech archive (@ big blue bx w/crossed screwdriver/wrench). All ur Qs should B answ there.
After gettin up to speed U will have more specific info on the end product U seek. UR Qs will B more specific/informed. We can B more of a resource 2 U. There R no short cuts to quality results.

Ford goes by 'families' not small block / big block like chebby.
The i6 family (1960 - '96) is bifurcated into 144, 170, 200, 250 as the small 6; and the big six 240 and 300.


Dawg the book is out of stock and i wont pay double the price to
Get it.

Curious what would happen if i just installed the head wothout milling it?


You know, you could contact CZLN6, he's one of the authors of the Handbook. He might have one or two lying around to sell.

He's also posted several times to your thread. You might want to listen to him.
Dan

Currently Own
1965 Mustang, 200CID, 3Spd
1964 Corvair Coupe, 164CID, 140HP, 4Spd
1961 Corvair Lakewood wagon, 145CID, 80HP, 2Spd Powerglide Auto.
2017 BMW X3, 3.0L Dual Turbo, 300HP, 8-Spd Auto

User avatar
bubba22349
Global Moderator
Posts: 8321
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Flagstaff, Az. 86005 near the old Route 66

Re: 67 mustang - 300 head vs 200 head

Post #24 by bubba22349 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:19 pm

thestang wrote:
rocklord wrote:Yes and No.

Yes, the 80-84 200 head will bolt directly on your 67 engine, the 250 head will also.

The No side of the equation is the size of combustion chamber of both the 200 and 250 heads.

The original head on your 67 had a combustion chamber size around 53cc. Both the 250 head and later 200 heads had 62cc combustion chambers. Ford was able to keep the compression ratios (CR) high by varying the recess in the piston.

The chamber volume of any head you purchase will depend on how much has been milled off the mating surface. When you purchase another head, you will have to CC the combustion chamber to determine if it needs remilled, or if the pistons in your engine need smaller recesses.


Rick i need your help bro. What would happen if i dont mill it?

Can you text me that way i could just text you my few questions that way i can order the head today?

929 255 0197


If you don't mill the head compression ratio will be a little less. Assuming that you 67 Mustang has the stock head with 51 to 53 CC chambers and pistions still it's compression Raito now would be 8.7 to 1 the late heads have 62 CC this is about 10 to 11 CC bigger combustion chambers add that too the new style head gaskets of .050 + compared to the stock steel shim head gaskets of .022 a rough guess is your compression will be in the 8.2 range fairly good for a Turbo or supercharger application. By the way I sent you a PM a long time ago on your questions. Good luck for n your build :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 3972
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

Re: unKnown increased performance

Post #25 by chad » Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:19 pm

thestang wrote:Dawg the book is out of stock and i wont pay double the price to
Get it.

Then there will B alot of 'teachin' done here. The book is worth 4X the price in my opinion.

They R being mailed frm supplier to retailer right now, sez Matt.
Y not speak to him (Matt) directly (post on VI site at "contact Us" rather than visit'n split)?
He's not some anonymous cypher caculatin away in cyber space, but a real human/member here like U'n I.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

User avatar
chad
Registered User
Posts: 3972
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:51 am
Location: Lawrence Swamp, S. Amherst, MA

'67 200 - 300 head vs 200 head

Post #26 by chad » Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:54 pm

"... the book is out of stock..."
looks "In" to me now...
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests