Carter BBD

I've looked at those monojets before, I think they are too tall for my use. About the same height as a YF. I didn't know they were 250 cfm's. That's got to be the highest flowing 1v out there. It looks like they are about the same mounting as a YFA. The orientation adapter for it should work w/o to much work if at all. Probably suffers from the same mediocre idle circuit metering like all 1 barrels seem to. When the weather and the stars align just right they'll purr like a kitten.

OK, I'll bite,"63falcon4drwagon".
How tall is it -total- as seen in ur pic? Inches & part inches if U can plez?
It has a lill adapter on the bottom, there -&- an A/C housing 'screw holder".

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never seeking to fool any1 so I might not B the one to answer. I do C my post 'quoted' tho.
I C a 200 as a lill high rever, a 250 as a bit more oriented to tq.
I have a bronk and this motor has it power at 1500 rpm. Don't wanna spin tires in off rd work.
That's my reasoning & (a la Click'n Clack) I'm stickin to it.
Hope that's what U R lookin for? Ask again/more if not.

To B helpful for me - let me know the hight of the carb.
BBD or Monojet
Thnx~

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no cryin here...
Thanks anyway.

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Fair enough.

hopin we don't get into politics (religion or a whole buncha other stuff around here. Stick w/the ford6'n should B OK, infact more'n OK by me.
The other stuff is a real distraction as can B seen by the graphics, swears, personal attacks, etc. I come here to get away frm that. 'S Y I enjoy the garage (same agreements). BTW: we got no drinkin there till after 8 pm so 's OK to sneek away if a$$holes start goin over the top...

Still lookin 4 a top to bottom measurment of the 1v Rochester "Monojet" (1MV).

63falcon4drwagon, Dhat's what im talking about. Yippeee!

Avoiding a clash with the rocker cover or the passenger side head studs is always a problem if you start swing the carbs around. You've done it right!

63falcon4drwagon, you've identified the short turn radius, and how to stop it ghosting the air fuel mix.

Nice work 63falcon4drwagon. :mrgreen: :wow:

And lemme say, yep, its a 200 thing. Tall deck 250 is a whole nuther topic...

For tall deck 250's, the Weber32/36, Weber38, and Holley Weber 52xx/62xx/65xx versions are very shallow carbs about 3.5" or so tall, and they can take a moderate aluminum riser adaptor which just might clear everything.

The height of the Holley 350/500 cfm and Autolite 2100/2150 carbs in any 250 install with a stock Early Bronco or E-line dog box is too great, and the down shift linkages are hard to manage.

e.g/cf


http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread. ... th-a-4r70w

jahearne":33bhcjal said:

I adapted 250 throttle linkage bolted to the valve cover operated from 1970 Mustang throttle pedal and cable. Also used a Lokar TV cable to the AOD. It's not a perfect setup, but it works; however, a constant pressure valvebody takes the worry out of it..

Click to expand...

[/quote]

The removal of a choke air horn allows you to use a TBi carb from a Tempo, but it goes bakc to the bad idle problem with one source of fuel to six cylinders.




I don't like TBi single point systems for this reason.

See 09-24-2012, 01:02 PM #15 http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread. ... ont-Futura


That asside, Fords best kept secret was on adding adapters to things to make hard carb installs work. GM did it even better.

Since the Holley Weber 52xx/62xx/65xx is a mirror image of the Weber32/36, it offten works well on limited throttle shaft space applications

Econoline, this might help you some if the doghousing space and height is limited.

Its doing it 63falcon4drwagon with a 90 degree twist




Its likely to risk a sealing problem unless you devocon or jb weld extra margin, but it too will work.


I've found the bolt spacing matters prevent a lot of easy work.
63falcon4drwagon used the stock log head castings strengths, and his application is great.

Proof is in the idle quality. Idle is a key problem of a 1-bbl Ford, it's always bad compared to a 2-bbl or triple carb DCOE with 6 bbls in total.

I like the elongation 63falcon4drwagon has done, but I think swapping it 90 degrees, and then tear dropping the hole in the opposite plane is easier still. It then allows up to three BBD carbs.

Opel with the twin Carb 1900 Kaddet engine used a very smart way of running its carbs.

It used the old 1958 PA Vauxhall style fire wall mounted shaft,
with an intermediate shaft to run the carb.
The intermediate shaft takes the load off the carb, ( andin multiple installs, all carbs have to operate form an intermediate shaft).

GM did this better than anyone else for many years, Vauxhall and Opel did it the same way from 1955 to about 1978, then went to other more modern means, but the results were excellent . The very Early twin carb Vauxhall 1592 cc VX490's (based on the PA 2262 cc six cylinder engine, cut down to four cylinders) and Opel twin carb 1900's used the same system. It allows the whole engine to rock without causing throttle actuation problems, and is better than the cable likage for progression, just like a down shift rod is better than a down shift cable.



The result from an additional to 63falcon4drwagon swing with another 90 degrees is the same, but it then might liberate more space for you.

I did this years ago for my triple carb swap with 32/36's.




http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread. ... -HP-to-I-6

There's enough meat in the iron head to do three deuces, and the 32/36DGVA or 38DGAS or 320/350/500/650 Holley 2-bbl are possible. Or you can use the 90 degree adaptor from the Mercury 2.6/2.8 Capri v6

.

Ford did this when fitting other carbs on the 2.8 V6.


It bolts down onto the later head, and allows space to fit the linkages.

Opel went down the track of a triple carb version of the Opel GT twin carb engine. Solex carbs were always a little tempramental, but the US Ford option Weber, Holley Weber and Holley aftermarket carbs can be fitted in like manner, and the GM idle air sollenoid can be hooked up to balance all three without linkage balance issues.


Triple carbs aren't a disaster waiting to happen if done right.

whenever getting into multis I like the 6 Keihins but won't post all my cites again.
Do not wish to get too far away frm OP's subject line...
Use my below addys in sig or (less desirable) a PM here.

xctasy":17q8mc20 said:

For tall deck 250's, the Weber32/36, Weber38, and Holley Weber 52xx/62xx/65xx versions are very shallow carbs about 3.5" or so tall, and they can take a moderate aluminum riser adaptor which just might clear everything.

The height of the Holley 350/500 cfm and Autolite 2100/2150 carbs in any 250 install with a stock Early Bronco or E-line dog box is too great, and the down shift linkages are hard to manage.

That asside, Fords best kept secret was on adding adapters to things to make hard carb installs work. GM did it even better.

Since the Holley Weber 52xx/62xx/65xx is a mirror image of the Weber32/36, it offten works well on limited throttle shaft space applications

Econoline, this might help you some if the doghousing space and height is limited.

Its doing it 63falcon4drwagon with a 90 degree twist

Its likely to risk a sealing problem unless you devocon or jb weld extra margin, but it too will work.

I've found the bolt spacing matters prevent a lot of easy work.
63falcon4drwagon used the stock log head castings strengths, and his application is great.

Proof is in the idle quality. Idle is a key problem of a 1-bbl Ford, it's always bad compared to a 2-bbl or triple carb DCOE with 6 bbls in total.

The result from an additional to 63falcon4drwagon swing with another 90 degrees is the same, but it then might liberate more space for you.

I did this years ago for my triple carb swap with 32/36's.

Click to expand...

One of the things I liked about how it worked out for 63falcon4drwagon was b/c he was forced to skew it, it gave him broader coverage of the log. Happy accident. And the fact that he did it in situ and utilized the factory casting/pad. I did some math and there is an equal area on the oem carb mount that can be opened up. Compared to straight through 2 x 1 7/16" bores of a BBD TBI, ~3.29 sq inches can be opened up for the 3.24 of the BBD TBI. But of course the shape change probably affects flow and potentially for the worse.

At the end of the day I'll probably just mill mine off. It's easy enough to do if you pull the head and know someone with a mill. Which I do. I'm still waiting to hear back from Holley on the flow of their Sniper BBD. What I really love about the footprint of this carb is how it keeps you away from the area's of the log beyond the stock carb mount. B/c when you look at it both sides are moving up in relation to one another, esp the aft side. This means the wider you go the thinner it gets to bridge a flat spot between them w/o brazing a plate on there. I'm not worried about it being level. TBI may be less than ideal, but considering what we are working with, i.e. the log, a 2v tbi has got to be a huge improvement. Ideally it should be 90* to the engine but it's just way easier to mount it inline on the log.

Holley is to be commened for at least having the balls to make a Ball and Ball Dual bbl. It will sell, and be wonderfull. Period.

In fact, any Throttle Body EFi will work if you can fit it, Holley has indeed made the whole package, which is designed to fix one engineering mess up, the small cap Duraspark, by fitting this Band Aid.



In so doing, it optimized the design for the 258 Jeep (and Mopar 273/318/360) engine bay, and it can never be Emissions endorsed, or totally fix the idle problems.

It has fuel reservoir in the back, and a front sensor which means it'll be a tight fit in anything other than a 258, or 273/318/360



However, Holleys Sniper BBD is a triumph of Engineering over Stupidity.

All the problems with 2-BBL 258 AMC Jeeps not ideling or progressing were due to

1. the stupid small Presolite cap they used on the Ford Duraspark, when Ford had already moved to the large cap Duraspark because of cross fire.

2. The wrong positioning of the carb so both legs of the fuel log get filled. The very issue Jagstang and 63Falcon4drwagon found regards the idle quality of I6 small Fords was figured out by AMC in 1963 with the 195.6 carbs and "intake". Back then, early versions of it and the updated 196 and 232 had a 2bbl WCB Carter intake manifold option




This is the 195.6 in line with the rate roaster plate.

An excellent manifold and carb system.





If you use the Rat Roster Cross Ram Smoky Yunick style plate on a 6 cylinder,

I started in 2011, but got busy earning a living



My background was twin TBi CrossRam and Twin throttle body Crossfire Chevy intake manifolds, so when I found the old AMC/ Nash six cylinder stuff, it was a slam dunk to do it on a Ford log head six.



Based on the Mopar Ramcharger 413 Wedge system, and the later crossram z28 camaro engine

http://image.superchevy.com/f/97506013+ ... engine.jpg

I love Jeep, but I gotta call it as I see it, and IMHO, Jeep made the mistake of trying to use cheeper parts, and avoiding manifold AND LINKAGE changes, as they used the Chrysler Australia Torquefilte or BW 42 kickdown lever and 2-bbl Eamil BBD placement, and so the BBD was placed the wrong way around as a result.

In Fords planned development 1978 era 200 2bbl, it had used the 2150 Motorcraft carb.

So did AMC on other 304 and 345 V8's, but when the 258 came out, the intake was left the Australian Hemi 245/265 2-bbl way, and those cars never idled well either. And Carter supplied the 2BBL BBD, and excellent carb if its placed properly to "two leg" supply the log head.






Meantime, I think anyone getting rid of the Jeep BBD should contact people on this forum, and sell it for 25 dollars.

Then I'd spend a few bucks on a BBD adaptor plate like 63falcon4drwagon, and just run the Carter. Maybee even three.

All the info exists, and no one would be silly enough to run a small cap Duraspark with a carb placed to create an idle backlog which stops both the front three and back three cylinders from having a chance to be well fed.

The Carter will work fine. If you want to feedback it, control the fuel air ratio with the Mixture Control Soleniod, and run three of them.

Help three people take off a emissions legal BBD carb off there Jeep, and use MegaSquirt to do a 100% close loop control of the fuel delivery system like Ford did on the 2.3 liter YFA Carter Ranger pickups and 2.3 Mustangs


This is the carb your looking for.

I'm glad to hear that X b/c that's the way I'm going to mount it I've got a chinese 318 BBD coming so I can get this figured out. The 318 BBD is the largest of the small BBD's and flows 285 cfms from what I've gathered online researching. Calculating flow through the size of the sniper bbd bores I'm estimating around 400 cfm. Holley hasn't gotten back to me. It's more than enough to feed my warmed up 250 to beyond 4500 rpms(which it will never go). I've been looking at the linkage using my stock rod setup and I think it will be fairly simple to execute by moving the stock pivot fwd on the adapter and adding a throttle arm extension to the carbs arm. I'll have to move the TV cable setup fwd as well, but I think that will be fine.

I noticed today that Holley has released a small bore "2CG" version of the Sniper which is just the BBD version with a different throttle arm attached that is more like the 2300 w/ the throttle stud holes and stud holes for various kickdowns. That was my biggest hangup with using the BBD version besides the extra $100. Unfortunately this one costs $150 more than the 2300 :roll:

https://www.holley.com/products/fue...r_efi/sniper_efi_2gc_small_bore/parts/550-864

This base pattern will fit on a milled log with no need to fill anything, skew the carb or shift it fwd. Or could be used with an adapter and hogged out hole like 63falcon4drwagon's.

The Holley Sniper 2300 is advertised as flowing 580 cfm. The bores of the BBD/2CG are 85% of the size of the 2300. 1.6875" vs 1.4375" x 2. If it were a direct correlation, the BBD/2CG Sniper would flow 490 cfm. I'm not sure if it's that simple but I'd bet it can at least flow in excess of 400 cfms.

63falcon4drwagon":2mfcmcj7 said:

The more I drive my Falcon with the BBD 2 barrel the more I like it.
It's the best upgrade that I have performed on this old car.
My DIY manual choke is great.
Pull out the choke for an instant start then push it in to 1/4 for a fast idle warm up with out choking the engine and polluting the air or the washing the cylinder walls with raw fuel.
The BBD is a great carb for a 200 six.
With two idle screws-throttle plates there is no more uneven fuel distribution or rough idle.
Performance is outstanding over the whole power band.
Full throttle high RPM power is great.
The tone of exhaust and intake is now like a six cylinder race car engine.
I love it.
The Chinese carb has brass float in it.
From the looks of it and RockAuto info it is a 1971 Dodge pickup BBD carb.
I'll have no problem if I need a carb kit or what ever.
Without milling-brazing the head I can always reinstall the YFA carb.
My Falcon is now a hot rod!

Click to expand...

Yep still liking this set up for several reasons.
Did you notice an improvement in low end torque?