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Block swap questions

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E1ghtTrack
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Block swap questions

Post #1 by E1ghtTrack » Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:46 pm

I currently have a 1965 inline 200 with the c4 cruise o matic transmission installed. The block cracked right near passenger side head bolt and near water pump housing. I recently picked up a block and head with casting D8BE 6015 GC. I wanted to know if I would be able to use the bell from my 65 with this block or will I need to look into other options.
65 mustang 200, C4 trans, headers, borla exhaust, HEI Distributor, large log modified with CI adapter, Holley Sniper EFI 2300 2BBL , Comp Cam, cold air induction with engine dress up from Classic Inlines.

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D8 Block swap w/'65 bell?

Post #2 by chad » Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:20 pm

did U C the above tech archive? (click on the crossed screwdriver/wrench)
I think in will have that in it (seems to have everything else)
page 3 in the "Ford 6 Performance Handbook" ?
IDK but there's my go 2 for all things ford i6 related.
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
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Re: Block swap questions

Post #3 by xctasy » Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:42 pm

Yep, if its ex automatic, everything will fit on the stock dowls. The D8 with a GC suffix is 1978-1983 block, high mount.



Make sure you use the original fasteners that were on the old block, and the old flywheel or flexplate. They vary between manual and automatic, and the bolts can touch the main seal and create spectacular diss-arry if you put long bolts into a six open holes on the crank flange.
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Re: Block swap questions

Post #4 by drag-200stang » Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:03 pm

If the 78 block was a manual you just pull the two dowel pins and relocate them to the smaller auto pattern holes.
66 Mustang Coupe
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Re: Block swap questions

Post #5 by B RON CO » Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:28 pm

Hi, as mentioned, the 200 blocks are drilled for the small early Falcon manual, and C4 bell housing, and the larger 9" clutch bell housing.
Use the engine spacer plate to line up the dowels. Some dowels can be punched out, and some are more difficult to yank, or just grind off flush and find a new one.
Also, the old carb won't fit on the new head.
Fortunately, the new head is a big improvement over the original.
The ignition is also better.
Get the Ford Falcon Performance Handbook to get the most out of your Ford six.
Good luck
B RON CO. Still workin' on it!

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Re: Block swap questions

Post #6 by frozenrabbit » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:58 pm

A '65 200 block is not dual pattern drilled, '65 blocks were still 8 1/2" clutch and smaller C4 bell. Dual bolt pattern started in '66.

A '78 200 is not dual pattern either, A '78 block is 9" clutch, later C4 pattern only.

'65 bell won't bolt to a '78 block.

StarDiero75 can vouch for this, he just dealt with a 8 1/2" to 9" 200 block swap.
Last edited by frozenrabbit on Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Block swap questions

Post #7 by xctasy » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:56 pm

Frozenrabbit is 100 % right in the statement above, for manuals; the swap of pre 66 blocks is not upwards compatible with any later non 2.77 manual gear boxes. Pre 66 blockd shoulf fit some specific later Autos, but only high mount C3/mid 1981 C4 transmissions. Any thing that came from the something like E0-6015-BB or E1BE-6015 will be low mount, and wont work either.

In context of a high mount only D8 swap to a 65 auto drivetrain, it is IIRC, drilled for the itty bitty 132 teeth flexplate and that stayed the same all years


Its only upwards compatible for auto D8-6015-GC blocks from certain years.Circumstances alter cases.

The 78 - 83 high mount bell is 132 teeth, small bolt spacing drilled for automatics.That never changed. As long as the dowels are in place, straight swap.

So if its 1978 - 1983 C3 high mount auto to whatever earlier auto, your all good. 1978-1981 high mount C4, all good too.

The 8- 1/2" clutch 2.77 manual gear box is the same pattern as the early C4's too. 9 to 9-1/8" 3.03 had to use the second set of holes, 136 teeth flywheel and that is the subtle difference.
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Re: Block swap questions

Post #8 by Econoline » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:58 pm

No, that's the point of a dual pattern block, so the old small stuff will bolt up. It will be a straight bolt in. The only time you're hosed is if you are trying to go in the other direction, i.e. bolting up later 9" drivetrain to an early small pattern only block.
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Re: Block swap questions

Post #9 by frozenrabbit » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:42 am

A '78 block is not dual pattern. Won't take a 8 1/2" clutch or early C4 setup.

ONLY late '66 to '68 blocks are dual pattern.

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Re: Block swap questions

Post #10 by E1ghtTrack » Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:34 am

Thanks for replies guys -- It looked to be dual pattern and I was pretty sure it would work but wanted to get clarification.

The carb wont be an issue I had previously replaced Head with large modified log and recently upgraded to Holley Sniper EFI carb. Guess I need to update my signature to reflect most current modifications.

While on subject of Holley Sniper 2100 upgrade -- Anyone know of a way to modify HEI distributor to lock out vacuum advance and allow Holley Sniper to control timing. I have it running just fine by setting it up and manually setting timing but it would be nice to have the Holley unit control timing.

I don't post here as often as I should but I do appreciate the vast source of knowledge this site provides.

E1ghtTrack
65 mustang 200, C4 trans, headers, borla exhaust, HEI Distributor, large log modified with CI adapter, Holley Sniper EFI 2300 2BBL , Comp Cam, cold air induction with engine dress up from Classic Inlines.

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Re: Block swap questions

Post #11 by E1ghtTrack » Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:25 pm

Just wanted to post an update --- The swap went smoothly and I will share some pics after I sort through and get them uploaded....
65 mustang 200, C4 trans, headers, borla exhaust, HEI Distributor, large log modified with CI adapter, Holley Sniper EFI 2300 2BBL , Comp Cam, cold air induction with engine dress up from Classic Inlines.

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Re: Block swap questions

Post #12 by Econoline » Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:39 pm

So was the D8 block dual pattern?? As for the distributor, there is an article here: https://www.efisystempro.com/efi-pro-hangout/demystifying-holley-terminator-sniper-ignition-wiring that claims it can be done, scroll done near the bottom. I like how he set the rotor phasing using the vacuum advance mechanism. It can be done with a DSII as well if the mechanical advance is locked out, the vac advance is removed/disabled and the rotor is rephased(a bit involved).
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Re: Block swap questions

Post #13 by E1ghtTrack » Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:19 pm

yes the block was dual pattern - Everything interchange with no issues at all -- and thanks for the link I will read up on that - right now I have it running using HEI distributor with no timing control.
65 mustang 200, C4 trans, headers, borla exhaust, HEI Distributor, large log modified with CI adapter, Holley Sniper EFI 2300 2BBL , Comp Cam, cold air induction with engine dress up from Classic Inlines.

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Re: Block swap questions

Post #14 by StarDiero75 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:39 pm

frozenrabbit wrote:A '65 200 block is not dual pattern drilled, '65 blocks were still 8 1/2" clutch and smaller C4 bell. Dual bolt pattern started in '66.

A '78 200 is not dual pattern either, A '78 block is 9" clutch, later C4 pattern only.

'65 bell won't bolt to a '78 block.

StarDiero75 can vouch for this, he just dealt with a 8 1/2" to 9" 200 block swap.

Aww you remembered me lol. Yes this is true. My new 1966 block is a dual drilled while the 1965 block is not. I worked on an adapter plate to go from the 8.5" to 9" setup but i had some holes that needed enlarging and some slight fitment issues. I haven't fixed the plate but thats a future project now

You can attempt to make an adapter plate from .25" plate steel but I think that'd be pointless. If you're running a C4, just get a later bell and converter.
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
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Re: Block swap questions

Post #15 by Econoline » Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:02 pm

E1ghtTrack wrote:yes the block was dual pattern - Everything interchange with no issues at all

StarDiero75 wrote:
frozenrabbit wrote:A '65 200 block is not dual pattern drilled, '65 blocks were still 8 1/2" clutch and smaller C4 bell. Dual bolt pattern started in '66.

A '78 200 is not dual pattern either, A '78 block is 9" clutch, later C4 pattern only.

'65 bell won't bolt to a '78 block.

StarDiero75 can vouch for this, he just dealt with a 8 1/2" to 9" 200 block swap.

My new 1966 block is a dual drilled while the 1965 block is not.


It's previously been my understanding that all high mount starter blocks C6 and on are dual pattern, but some here and info on the modern drivelines website dispute this, saying that they're only dual pattern drilled for 2-4 years like C6-8 blocks... before they are small only(no one disputes this) and later than ~C8 they are large pattern only. I'm confused.

It seems like I've been through this before, maybe it was on my van forum and someone told me yes, my D7 or whatever is dual pattern and here we are again. It seems like some here in this thread are saying that somehow a C4 auto that came from the factory bolted to a C3 block in '64 or whatever can bolt to a D7 block but a 8.5" clutch bell 3.03 won't....???
Last edited by Econoline on Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:44 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Block swap questions

Post #16 by drag-200stang » Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:43 pm

Site malfunction.
Last edited by drag-200stang on Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

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Re: Block swap questions

Post #17 by drag-200stang » Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:44 pm

StarDiero75 wrote:
frozenrabbit wrote:A '65 200 block is not dual pattern drilled, '65 blocks were still 8 1/2" clutch and smaller C4 bell. Dual bolt pattern started in '66.

A '78 200 is not dual pattern either, A '78 block is 9" clutch, later C4 pattern only.

'65 bell won't bolt to a '78 block.

StarDiero75 can vouch for this, he just dealt with a 8 1/2" to 9" 200 block swap.

Aww you remembered me lol. Yes this is true. My new 1966 block is a dual drilled while the 1965 block is not. I worked on an adapter plate to go from the 8.5" to 9" setup but i had some holes that needed enlarging and some slight fitment issues. I haven't fixed the plate but thats a future project now

You can attempt to make an adapter plate from .25" plate steel but I think that'd be pointless. If you're running a C4, just get a later bell and converter.

Star are you saying that you had a 78 single pattern 9'' block?, That is what Rabbit is saying as I read it.
I have a 78 duel pattern block and so does eight track...I have never seen a single pattern block above 66....There may be some out there ,maybe a west coast thing but you cannot say for sure that a 78 is a single.
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

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Re: Block swap questions

Post #18 by Econoline » Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:47 pm

drag-200stang wrote:I have never seen a single pattern block above 66....There may be some out there ,maybe a west coast thing but you cannot say for sure that a 78 is a single.


Thank you drag-200stang! No, he's saying his block was a small pattern only 65 and he was trying to bolt a 9" clutch bell to it.

This kind of confusion screws people from having straight forward swap info. The only time you are going to have a problem swapping 144-200's is if you are trying to put an early small pattern block into a large pattern later driveline. Or dealing with a low mount 200 block.

Someone needs to tell Modern Drivelines to stop passing misinformation to people.

Thank you again!
Last edited by Econoline on Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Block swap questions

Post #19 by drag-200stang » Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:03 pm

Econoline wrote:
drag-200stang wrote:I have never seen a single pattern block above 66....There may be some out there ,maybe a west coast thing but you cannot say for sure that a 78 is a single.


Thank you drag-200stang! No, he's saying his block was a small pattern only 65 and he was trying to bolt a 9" clutch bell to it.

This kind of confusion screws people from having straight forward swap info. The only time you are going to have a problem swapping 144-200's is if you are trying to put an early small pattern block into a large pattern later driveline. Or dealing with a low mount 200 block.

Someone needs to tell Modern Drivelines to stop passing misinformation to people.

Thank you

I know about Star's 65's block problem but the sentence about ( 65 bell not fitting a 78 block ,threw me off.
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

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Re: Block swap questions

Post #20 by StarDiero75 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:36 pm

drag-200stang wrote:
StarDiero75 wrote:
frozenrabbit wrote:A '65 200 block is not dual pattern drilled, '65 blocks were still 8 1/2" clutch and smaller C4 bell. Dual bolt pattern started in '66.

A '78 200 is not dual pattern either, A '78 block is 9" clutch, later C4 pattern only.

'65 bell won't bolt to a '78 block.

StarDiero75 can vouch for this, he just dealt with a 8 1/2" to 9" 200 block swap.

Aww you remembered me lol. Yes this is true. My new 1966 block is a dual drilled while the 1965 block is not. I worked on an adapter plate to go from the 8.5" to 9" setup but i had some holes that needed enlarging and some slight fitment issues. I haven't fixed the plate but thats a future project now

You can attempt to make an adapter plate from .25" plate steel but I think that'd be pointless. If you're running a C4, just get a later bell and converter.

Star are you saying that you had a 78 single pattern 9'' block?, That is what Rabbit is saying as I read it.
I have a 78 duel pattern block and so does eight track...I have never seen a single pattern block above 66....There may be some out there ,maybe a west coast thing but you cannot say for sure that a 78 is a single.

Previously, i had a single pattern 65 block, so i needed the 9", so i got a 66 dual drilled block that fixed my problem
--1965 Ranchero w/1966 200, dual friction diaphram 9" Modern Driveline clutch and billet flywheel all balanced, 1985 SVO WC T5 with front shift, 1966 2.8 Ford 8", Weber 32/26 with VI adapter, CRT Performance HEI.
--1961 Studebaker Lark VI, OHV 170 l6 in the process of being resurrected. But it lives
--Creator of the only Weber 32/36 conversion video.

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Re: Block swap questions

Post #21 by Econoline » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:25 am

From Ryan's original thread,

drag-200stang wrote:I feel bad for you...
Something not put together right.
9'' bell on a 8-1/2 small pattern only early block.


frozenrabbit wrote:It is looking like you've got a 9" flywheel and clutch set up on a 8.5" clutch block.

What's the casting number on your block?


StarDiero75 wrote:

The block is the original 65

Yes that is true i jave a 9" on a 8.5" block.



frozenrabbit wrote:Dude.......Very bad news...

You are either going to have to find another engine with a 'dual bolt pattern", or a later 200 with just the 9" bell bolt pattern.

Or, get a 8.5" flywheel and clutch, find a (64) Econoline (3.03) bell

Best advice, find a complete later engine and transmission


bubba22349 wrote::bang: well there you go! 200-Dragstang & Frozenrabbit, :beer: seen the problems with bell housing mounting and nailed it! It's just too bad you didn't post those pictures at the very beginning of this journey, you could have saved yourself lots of time, some of your money, and much of your frustration.


frozenrabbit wrote:A T5 transmission, 8.5" flywheel and pressure plate, 8.5" bell, T5 conversion clutch disc, T5 cross member, pilot bearing, custom drive shaft, 2.77 to T5 trans adapter from someplace like Modern DriveLine. And other conversion parts I'm sure I'm missing in this short list.

http://transmission.moderndriveline.com ... -7p138.htm

Even with a free transmission, you are easily over $1000 with just T5 conversion parts, not including stock 8.5" parts or drive shaft, to do this.

Don't know what your budget is, but I'd just find a complete engine with a 3.03.


StarDiero75 wrote:I already have a 3.03. Thats what the problem with me setup. If i can keep it without changing my engine thatd be perfect


frozenrabbit wrote:Only way to correctly get your 8.5" block to your 3.03 is with the Econoline bell housing setup.

There is a user on here named Econoline, I believe he has a bell housing, and Econline trans, he might sell the bell seperate.


Yes I do and I did offer it up.

powerband wrote:. It's simple to determine. The "dual drilled' 170/200's have the bellhouse block fastener 'holes' at top/rear of block deck right below the head at the head/block gasket line.. NON dual drilled for small bell only have bolt 'holes' @ 2" below the deck/head mating surface.


drag-200stang wrote:
powerband wrote:from Modern DriveLine page: .... The mid 200’s, 1965-68, had dual pattern blocks. And the late 200 block castings, 1967-1979 only had the 9” set-up

AFAIF
The C8DE 200 and 170 castings were dual-drilled and used in Mustang and MAverick through early 70's. The OEM - 3 frz plug 170 from my '71 Maverick is C8DE with 3 speed on column 3.03 with C7ZA 9 " clutch bellhouse. C8DE 200 in previous pic is dual drilled from late 60's Mustang.

haev fun

PS - Rhinebeck Dustoff swap and shows was great today Friday 4th and I'll be ther Sat. and Sun 5th 6th . ..

I can confirm that a C8 was duel and came from a 70 170..A C6 duel from a 66 200...C8 duel 200...D8 duel 200 and a member just posted that his E1 200 high mount was a duel..I do not buy that 67-79 were 9'' only...There is always fords exception to any rule...I have never seen a single bell mount with a high mount starter after late 66, I am sure there out there,..Maybe a west coast factory thing.


Econoline wrote:It's been my understanding until it was refuted recently that all 200's are dual pattern except the early 8.5 pattern blocks. If anyone has a picture of a large pattern only block I want to see it. If you have or have had a large pattern only block I'd like to see a pic of it and hear about the details on the block date and code.
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Re: Block swap questions

Post #22 by E1ghtTrack » Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:33 am

Here is a link to pics of block swap --

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AvgPd2SNEWd4ga8UpVP ... g?e=kykx3x
65 mustang 200, C4 trans, headers, borla exhaust, HEI Distributor, large log modified with CI adapter, Holley Sniper EFI 2300 2BBL , Comp Cam, cold air induction with engine dress up from Classic Inlines.

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Re: Block swap questions

Post #23 by Econoline » Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:42 pm

Looks good! How's the sniper working for you?
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Re: Block swap question

Post #24 by bubba22349 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:57 pm

Econoline wrote:From Ryan's original thread,

drag-200stang wrote:I feel bad for you...
Something not put together right.
9'' bell on a 8-1/2 small pattern only early block.


frozenrabbit wrote:It is looking like you've got a 9" flywheel and clutch set up on a 8.5" clutch block.

What's the casting number on your block?


StarDiero75 wrote:

The block is the original 65

Yes that is true i jave a 9" on a 8.5" block.



frozenrabbit wrote:Dude.......Very bad news...

You are either going to have to find another engine with a 'dual bolt pattern", or a later 200 with just the 9" bell bolt pattern.

Or, get a 8.5" flywheel and clutch, find a (64) Econoline (3.03) bell

Best advice, find a complete later engine and transmission


bubba22349 wrote::bang: well there you go! 200-Dragstang & Frozenrabbit, :beer: seen the problems with bell housing mounting and nailed it! It's just too bad you didn't post those pictures at the very beginning of this journey, you could have saved yourself lots of time, some of your money, and much of your frustration.


frozenrabbit wrote:A T5 transmission, 8.5" flywheel and pressure plate, 8.5" bell, T5 conversion clutch disc, T5 cross member, pilot bearing, custom drive shaft, 2.77 to T5 trans adapter from someplace like Modern DriveLine. And other conversion parts I'm sure I'm missing in this short list.

http://transmission.moderndriveline.com ... -7p138.htm

Even with a free transmission, you are easily over $1000 with just T5 conversion parts, not including stock 8.5" parts or drive shaft, to do this.

Don't know what your budget is, but I'd just find a complete engine with a 3.03.


StarDiero75 wrote:I already have a 3.03. Thats what the problem with me setup. If i can keep it without changing my engine thatd be perfect


frozenrabbit wrote:Only way to correctly get your 8.5" block to your 3.03 is with the Econoline bell housing setup.

There is a user on here named Econoline, I believe he has a bell housing, and Econline trans, he might sell the bell seperate.


Yes I do and I did offer it up.

powerband wrote:. It's simple to determine. The "dual drilled' 170/200's have the bellhouse block fastener 'holes' at top/rear of block deck right below the head at the head/block gasket line.. NON dual drilled for small bell only have bolt 'holes' @ 2" below the deck/head mating surface.


drag-200stang wrote:
powerband wrote:from Modern DriveLine page: .... The mid 200’s, 1965-68, had dual pattern blocks. And the late 200 block castings, 1967-1979 only had the 9” set-up

AFAIF
The C8DE 200 and 170 castings were dual-drilled and used in Mustang and MAverick through early 70's. The OEM - 3 frz plug 170 from my '71 Maverick is C8DE with 3 speed on column 3.03 with C7ZA 9 " clutch bellhouse. C8DE 200 in previous pic is dual drilled from late 60's Mustang.

haev fun

PS - Rhinebeck Dustoff swap and shows was great today Friday 4th and I'll be ther Sat. and Sun 5th 6th . ..

I can confirm that a C8 was duel and came from a 70 170..A C6 duel from a 66 200...C8 duel 200...D8 duel 200 and a member just posted that his E1 200 high mount was a duel..I do not buy that 67-79 were 9'' only...There is always fords exception to any rule...I have never seen a single bell mount with a high mount starter after late 66, I am sure there out there,..Maybe a west coast factory thing.


Econoline wrote:It's been my understanding until it was refuted recently that all 200's are dual pattern except the early 8.5 pattern blocks. If anyone has a picture of a large pattern only block I want to see it. If you have or have had a large pattern only block I'd like to see a pic of it and hear about the details on the block date and code.


So I think we are somwhat narrowing down the mystery of the different block Combinations. These are some of the conclusions I have come to over the years of working with these small block Ford six'es.

1. All the early small six blocks built from July 1959 (made for the first year 1960 Falcon / Comet production run) to end of 1965 model run block numbers C0DE to C5DE. These blocks are for the small pattern bell housings and used the 8 1/2 inch clutch and dog dish flywheel, or the Ford O / Merc O Matic, then some in 1964 (Mustang) got the C4 Duel range Cruise O Matic. These early blocks usally are best suited to be used in the early model cars from 1960 to 1965.

2.In 1966 the C6DE block was the first to have a duel bolt bell housing pattern these engines got the bigger 9 inch clutch and flat type flywheel, or the Duel Range C4 Cruise o Matic that still used the smaller bell housing bolt pattern. In 1967 and there after the C4 was upgraded to the Select Shift valve body and still used the smaller bell housing this continued through to the D8DE and E0, E1, E2, high mount starter blocks. Though I can't prove it I think all the high mount starter 170 and 200 blocks made in 1966 to end of production will likely be the duel bolt pattern bell housings so they can use eighter the larger pattern for the 9 inch flywheel clutch combo or the Original small pattern bell C4. I have not worked on, found, or seen any pictures of a single bell housing pattern D series block or one that was not drilled and tapped with both patterns. These duel pattern blocks can be used in any year Model from 1960 to 1978, but an early 1960 to 1961 body will need some BFH / hammer work on the firewall tunnel area for some more clearance to be able to fit the 9 inch big bell housing and or with the 3.03 trans combo.

3. The last series of small six Ford 200 Blocks like we're used in the Fox chassis Mustangs and Capris ect. (the E0, E1, E2, etc.) can also be found in a low mount starter version that is 2/3 of the Small Block Ford V8 bell housing. They are somewhat rare and info is a bit scarce. They have used some different flywheels and a T4 bell housing (with its 4speed trans) this bell can be used to adapt the T5 speed to these blocks. I don't know yet what were if any different Auto Trans options made for that block. These blocks are a real hard to fit into the early model cars 1960 to 1963 and probably not worth trying. Also will be difficult in 1964 up to 1978 models too because of the different bell housing pattern, oil pan, ect. which will require some parts swapping to work.

Let me know your thoughts, corrections, experiences, on this and what else you may have found out working with these Ford blocks too, then we can maybe put it all into a sticky. :nod: :thumbup:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Block swap questions

Post #25 by drag-200stang » Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:25 pm

Bubba on 2. The last '' with'' you meant without right.
I remember someone that had to drill his own small pattern dowel pin hole.,but that was probably a manufacture glitch...I also
have never seen a 66 up high mount starter not a duel pattern.
I have a low mount block and it has a 164 tooth flex plate on it, same diameter as a 300 11 '' clutch flywheel.
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

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Re: Block swap questions

Post #26 by E1ghtTrack » Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:17 pm

Econoline --

The sniper 2300 works great -- I had to set it up with no timing control and update the firmware but so far it has not given any problems. Easier starts, smoother idle, great throttle response and appears to have a lot more torque. I have run both the weber 32/36 and the weber 38 and this setup is 3 x's better.
65 mustang 200, C4 trans, headers, borla exhaust, HEI Distributor, large log modified with CI adapter, Holley Sniper EFI 2300 2BBL , Comp Cam, cold air induction with engine dress up from Classic Inlines.

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Re: Block swap questions

Post #27 by bubba22349 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:17 pm

drag-200stang wrote:Bubba on 2. The last '' with'' you meant without right.
I remember someone that had to drill his own small pattern dowel pin hole.,but that was probably a manufacture glitch...I also
have never seen a 66 up high mount starter not a duel pattern.
I have a low mount block and it has a 164 tooth flex plate on it, same diameter as a 300 11 '' clutch flywheel.


Thanks drag-200stang, sometimes often I have go to back and reread some of my posts over a little later to see these kind of mistakes from what I was really trying to say. Quite Interesting on the 164 tooth flex plate then with this info there's another possibility that they may have used a C5 trans with a bigger lock up converter. I haven't had the chance to have one of these rare blocks or work on one, thank you for adding more info on them. :nod: :thumbup:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Block swap questions

Post #28 by drag-200stang » Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:46 pm

bubba22349 wrote:
drag-200stang wrote:Bubba on 2. The last '' with'' you meant without right.
I remember someone that had to drill his own small pattern dowel pin hole.,but that was probably a manufacture glitch...I also
have never seen a 66 up high mount starter not a duel pattern.
I have a low mount block and it has a 164 tooth flex plate on it, same diameter as a 300 11 '' clutch flywheel.


Thanks drag-200stang, sometimes often I have go to back and reread some of my posts over a little later to see these kind of mistakes from what I was really trying to say. Quite Interesting on the 164 tooth flex plate then with this info there's another possibility that they may have used a C5 trans with a bigger lock up converter. I haven't had the chance to have one of these rare blocks or work on one, thank you for adding more info on them. :nod: :thumbup:

You are welcome and hope no offence was taken..In a post about editing posts to cut down on misinformation , I goofed up and 67 ST SIX called me out on it :oops: .
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

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Re: Block swap questions

Post #29 by bubba22349 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:01 pm

:rolflmao: drag-200stang no offense taken actually when I was in grade school I missed much of the second grade due to being ill. For that and maybe a few other reasons I have struggled ever since having trouble with spelling and grammar, etc. Sometimes I go back and look at some of my posts :shock: and wonder how the heck they got so convoluted, :hmmm: maybe it's the spell checkers fault :bang: , it sure seems to add other words than what I want to. :nod: :thumbup:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Econoline
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Re: Block swap questions

Post #30 by Econoline » Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:08 pm

Thank you bubba for sharing your knowledge and experience to help clear this up. This has been a long running issue that pops up since I've been looking around online into these engines when I bought my van. 4 or 5 years ago I concluded in my own mind the same as what you and drag-200stang are confirming, but doubt pops up here and there b/c ppl have been told otherwise. So thank you for sharing and thanks again to drag-200stang for the same.
E1ghtTrack wrote:Econoline --

The sniper 2300 works great -- I had to set it up with no timing control and update the firmware but so far it has not given any problems. Easier starts, smoother idle, great throttle response and appears to have a lot more torque. I have run both the weber 32/36 and the weber 38 and this setup is 3 x's better.


I'm sorry for the sidetrack in your thread E1ghtTrack. It just drives me nuts, I need to know :)

That's great to hear. I'm working towards going with a sniper as well. Has it finished "learning" yet? How did you set it up, software wise?
It ain't gonna fix itself

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Re: Block swap questions

Post #31 by bubba22349 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:50 pm

Thank you Econoline maybe I should cut some this info section out and start a new post so as to not to mess up Eighttracks post. I do think it's an important topic to try and get some accurate info on the blocks so as to help the current and future members select the right parts for their project cars. :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Block swap questions

Post #32 by E1ghtTrack » Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:43 am

Econoline --

No need to apologize for hijacking thread when good information is being shared for everyone's benefit.

The sniper 2300 software is easy to setup. To update the firmware you just pull the SD from the hand held, download the firmware files from Holley and rewrite the files on SD card with files you downloaded.

Here is a video :

https://youtu.be/IR1KC4qcewU

As far as setting up the software it is easy as well -- you go through the setup wizard answer basic questions # of cylinders, Displacement, Cam type, Coil type, target idle, etc... I was shocked at how easy it was to get it started first time, set the idle a little high got it up to running temp them adjust throttle screw to desired RPM. I used to have to have RPM up around 800 with cam and Weber combo and it idled a little rough in gear at lights , now it is set at 650 RPM at idle and it is so smooth at lights I sometimes think the car quit running - LOL - The initial learning process took about 30 minutes of driving under different conditions but it is continuously learning. I have just started to log some running data files. I will pull card and go over the data using the Holley Sniper software on laptop to see what improvements can be made if any after driving it for awhile. So far I would have to say of all the money I have spent on my engine and it has been a lot, the sniper 2300 is the best money I have spent. It really brings my lil sixer to life.
65 mustang 200, C4 trans, headers, borla exhaust, HEI Distributor, large log modified with CI adapter, Holley Sniper EFI 2300 2BBL , Comp Cam, cold air induction with engine dress up from Classic Inlines.

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bubba22349
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Re: Block swap questions

Post #33 by bubba22349 » Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:20 pm

For some adistional info on block swaps for those that maybe wanting to find out what can work see link below. Best of luck to everyone on your project restorations or performance builds :thumbup: :nod:

Ford Small Six Block Differences
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=80022&p=620619#p620619
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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chad
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Block swap questions

Post #34 by chad » Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:50 pm

bubba22349 wrote:For some adistional info on block swaps see link below.
Ford Small Six Block Differences
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=80022&p=620619#p620619

Lookin good Mr Bubs !
Man is doin some work !
Autos'n Mannys.
:nod:
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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chad
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Re: Block swap questions

Post #35 by chad » Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:13 pm

bubba22349 wrote:Ford Small Six Block Differences
https://www.fordsix.com/viewtopic.php?f ... 19#p620619

Sure B nice (as U said) 2 get many, many more pic in that thread/locked info...

I seek some 4 head/throttle/kick down/carb OEM items as well...
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), 250, NV 3550 & DSII to B transplanted, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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