The Differences in Small Six Ford Blocks, Bell Housings, & Trans Combos

bubba22349

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This is info gathered together from our many site members who generously gave their time in detailing their experiences plus great pictures all in one place to try and clear up and simplify the info on the small Six block differences.

The Summery of Ford Small Inline Six Block Differences

1. All the early small six blocks built from July 1959 (for the first year 1960 Falcon / Comet production run) to end of 1965 model run with block numbers C0DE to C5DE. These early 144, 170 or 200 blocks will only have the single bolt pattern for the small six bell housings that were only used with the 8 1/2 inch clutch and 132 Tooth "Dog Dish"/ Stepped Flywheel, and 3 Bolt Starter in the Cars, along with a 2.77 Trans. All of the Two Speed Ford O Matic / Merc O Matic's Cars also used this same small pattern Bell Housing too with a 132 Tooth Ring Gear, and 3 Bolt Starters. See Post #13 below for the latest info of the 3 proven ways to install the later 3.03 Top Loader Manual Transmissions onto these early Small Six's with a single Bell Housing Bolt Pattern Blocks and have more to drive Car.

2. In 1966 the Prefix C6DE block was the first to have a Duel the bolt pattern these can use the larger Bell Housing's for the Manual Transmissions along with the bigger 9 inch clutches and larger 136 Tooth Flat type Flywheel's and it also makes it easier to use the better Transmissions. The Duel Range and Select Shift C4 Cruise O Matic's still used the same smaller Bell Housing bolt pattern until the end of 1981 (there were also some High Mount Starter Blocks used in 1982 & 1983 too). Though I can't prove it at this time I think that all the high mount starter 170 and 200 blocks made in 1966 to end of production will likely be the Duel bolt pattern blocks with Prefixes of C6DE, C7DE, C8DE, C9DE. So they can all use either the larger pattern Bell Housing's for the 9 inch flywheel clutch combo or still use the small pattern Bell Housing's and stepped Flywheels. All C4 transmissions from 1964 to the end of production 1981 used the same smaller bolt pattern Bell Housing size as the other Small Six Automatics did so they can be fitted onto those older engines. Note: So far I have not worked on, found, or seen any pictures of any Large Single pattern only Prefix D0DE to D9DE series blocks or one that was not drilled and tapped with both patterns, at this point I don't believe that they existed. These later Duel Pattern 170 & 200 Six Long Block's can fit into an early model 1960 to early 1962 Cars with the either the smaller Bell Housing's (a Manual or an Auto Trans) for a Direct easy bolt in or with a small amount of Hammer work to floors and the trans tunnel also be used with the bigger 9 inch Flywheels and Larger Bell Housing for one of the better Manual Transmissions. There is no trouble in fitting them into with the Larger Bell Housings into the mid 1962 & 1963 up Cars. Note that on many 1978 to 1983 200 Six engines the oil pan and oil pump pickup tube out of the Fox Chassis cars is the wrong one to be able to fit with the cross members of the 1960 to 1977 pre Fox Chassis cars and will need to be swapped out to the early style 1960 to 1977 (a few later models up to 1979 will also work) to fit into the early model Chassis you will need a 144, 170, or 200 Front Sump version Oil Pan and Oil Pump Pick Up Tube. If you have those from your old engine they will fit and work on the later model 200's.

3. Last are the more rare two year only 1982 & 1983 200 Six Big Bell Housing blocks with a low mounted starter these resemble 2/3 of the small block Ford V8's 6 Bolt Block Pattern and were used only with the C5 trans and a lock up torque converter (see C4 and C5 difference's). These blocks are not the best for swapping into the early model Falcon / Comet cars especially in the 1960 to early 1962 year models as the larger bell pattern is going to require lots of metal work and or floor and trans tunnel cutting and replacement to fit. Note also that as above that on many 1978 to 1983 200 Six engines out of the Fox Chassis cars the oil pan and oil pump pickup tube is the wrong one to be able to fit with the cross members of the 1960 to 1977 pre Fox Chassis cars and will need to be swapped out to the early style 1960 to 1977 (a few later models up to 1979 will also work) to fit into the early model Chassis you will need a 144, 170, or 200 Front Sump version Oil Pan and Oil Pump Pick Up Tube. If you have those from your old engine they will fit and work on the later model 200's.

In this below video below it covers the difference's between the Case Fill C4 157 tooth flex plate (this is the first one) and the Pan Fill C4's 164 tooth flex plate (in the second one). Pay close attention to how many bolts hold the bells on to the C4 case and you can also see there is a difference in the two cases, Note also that only the Case fill C4's can be used with our small sixes. Note also that a Case fill C4 can be bolt onto any 144, 170, and most of the 200 Six's since they can use the Small Six 1965 to 1981 Ford C4 Small Bolt Pattern Bell Housing, Block Plate and the 132 Tooth Ring Ring Torque Convertor's these are just like the older Ford O / Merc O Matic's used, they also use the same 3 Bolt Starters making it a Direct swap. The only thing that needs some work is the Trans Mounting into the Chassis and a little reworking of the Column Shifter Linkage or replacement with one of the new aftermarket Tilt Columns or you can also use one the Mustang, Mustang II or Pinto Floor Shifters if you wanted.

The 164 Tooth Bells can not be used on the case fill C4 trans as they won't bolt up and are not interchangeable with the 157 tooth Bells. The third trans is a C5 that fits the rare late 200 Six Big Bell Blocks discussed above (again its 2/3 of a 302 V8 bell) that were used in the Fox chassis cars like a 1982 to 83 Fairmount, Mercury Zephyr, Mustang, & Capri.

The difference's in both of the C4's cases and bell housing mounting, plus the later lock up C5's

4. All 1969 up to end of production in 1983 of the 250 Blocks are the same size and will have the same Block Bell Hosing pattern as the Ford 6 Bolt 289, 302, 5.0, 351 W, 351C, 5.7 V8's and the 240, 300, 4.9 Big Sixes. These 250 Six blocks can be swapped into the 1967 up cars using factory mounts they will also fit into the late 1962 to 1966 Ford and Mercury Small Six models fairly easy with special parts or custom made mounts. They have also been swapped into the very early cars 1960 to early 1962 though it's going to require some metal work that needs to be done in the trans tunnel, the lower firewall, and floor boards to fit them in. Edited 9 /04/2023 with latest additional new Info.
 
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I have the Econoline bell and 3.03 transmission on my '64 170, I think earlier I had not made it clear that my flywheel and clutch are still the dog dish and are original to the 170 (the flywheel not the clutch) I can't say for sure what van the bell housing came out of I found it lying on the ground at the junk yard but after trying to fit every bell housing in the country I could find and none fitting I could tell by sight it was what I needed.

I pulled the 3.03 top loader out of van and then swapped the tailtshaft housing from a 3.03 I had pulled out of a '72 Maverick because there was a difference in the length of the input shaft and I could not swap them out, every time I tightened the bolts on the bearing housing the transmission would lock up, finally I went to the other end of the transmission and the tail shafts did not have a problem swapping over.

I did all that 30+ years ago so I can't remember exactly what the difference was but I think the Econoline bell is shallower than the car bell because I actually dropped the car (fell off the jack) on my chest while trying to get the transmission to go all the way into the bell and it lacked about 1/2" of mating to the bell housing, I thought something else was keeping the trans from going all the way in so I was pushing and shaking on it. I still had tires on the car so it just bounced down on me and left a round bruise on my chest where a bolt hit me and scared the devil out of me (used jack stands the next time, well from that day forward)

Anyway hopefully that is some kind of confirmation on getting the 3.03 to bolt onto a small bolt pattern block.

See Ya,
Mike
 
"Oh the tail of whoa we weave" !
I can't weave my spell cuz it involved my 1st break job
('64 Dart waggy while using liilcid drugs/as an impoverished college student)
but add a decade to Brother Mike's story...
 
Guessing we need to start posting depth of assorted bellhousings.
I'll get the number off my 76 Mustang 2 housing that allowed me to use the old bellcrank/rod setup.Fresh engine coming up.
Had a 3.03,toploader,SROD,T&C OD in it,probably take a T-18,but why?Dual pattern trans.mount.
So, when I get there, I'll post casting number and depth.
Anyone think of other info that might be helpful?
 
not to duplicate modern drive (or whoever) but how bout C4 info...?
My bronk (any of them) may have the only pan fill C4s that were made?
 
Thank you Mike, on the confirmation of your 3.03 swap using the Econoline bell housing with the "Dog Dish" 132 Tooth Flywheel and 8 1/2 inch Clutch. I think if we could find the casting number for the Econoline bell housing that could be of some help too.

Thank you chero1369, those casting numbers and dimension's will be helpful too.

Chad C4's are fairly easy with their bolt on bell housings the cars use Case Fill small bell housing these will bolt up to any of the of the small pattern Ford Six blocks from a 144, 170, and up to any 200 block. Or for use on a 250 six the car 6 bolt V8 bell housing will be a direct interchange (used on the later 1965 289 up, or all 302 / 5.0, 351 C & 351W used with a 157 tooth count flex plate. Some of the big Ford / Mercury cars and all trucks stock will use Pan Fill (164 tooth count flex plates will also bolt up to a 250's, 240, 300, Six's and all small block V8's late 1965 289, 302, 351 C & W) many racers prefer to use the Pan Fill type C4 as its a bit stronger. Stock the 1964 to 1966 model C4's are all Duel Range (Green Dot P,R,N,D1,D2,L) and the 1967 up to end of production are the Select Shift (P,R,N,D,2,1) which is much better for Hi Performance. Any year C4 can be upgraded with the right parts though it is usually cheaper to start with a later model one this is why I like to use the 1971 and up transmissions which will all ready have all those better factory improvements. (y) :nod: Edited
 
I will try to look for the casting number tomorrow, hopefully it will be on the outside because it is all still bolted to the engine and transmission, I will try and get a depth measure too. If I can find the casting/part number on the 3.03 I will post that up as well.

See Ya,
Mike
 
U Go Mike, thanks !

The early Bronco had the option of an automatic transmission C4 from 1973-77.
Thnx Bubba.
 
Hi Chad, I thought all Ford six Broncos were 3 speeds, with a 170. I don't think Ford put in a 200. The C4 only came on the V8. I'm thinking you got a 250 and C4 later on. Any sign of the 3 speed stuff left in there? Good luck
 
Ok I decided to take one for the team and disassembled the bell and transmission from the 170, there was a big old rat nest inside the bell anyway :roll: Have to look this bell up now that I have a number or someone may know, remember I picked this up off the ground so I have no idea what it came out of but it has a '63 part number.
222d3b81519ce19ae2fa0e1e3f19ed5c.jpg


Looks like it is around 5 1/2" deep.

5b931c7506aa31f51b70b31ca74fc173.jpg


The transmission I know came out of an Econoline van and has a '68 part number code, it is dual mount pattern but I really don't know if they are all that way (3.03) I do know this transmission has a shorter input shaft than a '72 Maverick :roll: and you cannot swap the input shaft into the Maverick transmission and I ended up putting the tail shaft and housing off the Maverick onto the van trans (that worked, I know I am repeating here from my earlier post).
7d680f15564ebf55a25a0f980cc11af9.jpg


Also lying around someplace I have one of the cast iron bell housings it may have come off the van trans and I think the Maverick bell, if I can dig them out I will get numbers and measurements and post some picts, BTW neither of them worked on the 170 I think they might be big pattern on the engine block side.

Also, but I don't know where it is I have a Maverick 3.03 with a van tail shaft :roll:

EDIT: As I think back there seemed to be an issue with the diameter of the bearing retainer on the transmissions and some would not fit into the center hole of the bell.

See Ya,
Mike
 
B RON CO":1hjkw2gj said:
Hi Chad, I thought all Ford six Broncos were 3 speeds, with a 170. I don't think Ford put in a 200. The C4 only came on the V8. I'm thinking you got a 250 and C4 later on. Any sign of the 3 speed stuff left in there? Good luck
Sorry, "No" and "No".
Bronk hada 200 in '73'n4 only.
Yes C4 only w/302 (no 289/5.0 autos).
(u used the phrase "still wrkin...") & so I hope to get the 250'n NV3550 in this month
 
Did a quick Google search, the C3UA-6394-A is for a '63-'66 Econoline with a 170.

The C8AR-7008-B (I can't find a "B" reference) 68 top loader casting used '68-'71.

Makes sense I guess that they would fit together, I guess I would have to have the tag know all the skinny and I don't.

See Ya,
Mike
 
Thank you Mike, the Econoline bell housing casting number info is the biggest piece of the puzzle for this combo. (y) :nod:

Update 9 / 4 / 2023 with latest Info for the Early 1960 to 1965 Sigle Pattern Blocks to be able to use the 3.03 Transmissions.

Three ways that the 1960 to 1965 Ford Small Six Engine’s can also use one of the later model stronger and much better driving 3.03 Top Loader Family of Transmissions

The Stock 2.77 Bell Housing’s can certainly be made to work with the later stronger and better 3.03 Transmissions at one time there was an Adapter Plate made to mount them up. See below Link Post #13 for a picture of this adapter. At this time I don’t know who made them, or if they are still available it might resemble something like the Adapter Plate’s Modern Driveline and others have for their T5 Swaps for the 8 ½ Inch 132 Tooth Stepped Flywheel Bell Housings. If you have the ability and access to equipment and a few tools than it could be a DYI type project that should be fairly easy to accomplish. Would require machining for the Input Shaft Front Bearing Collar Register Hole and this Adapter Plate would need to use ¾ (.750) inch thick material for the longer input shaft’s used on most of the 3.03 Family of Transmissions.

This old post shows the common 2.77 Bell Housing being used with the 3.03 Adapter Plate. 3.03 3 speed top loader with 8.5" clutch on 1965 200 Ci
https://fordsix.com/threads/3-03-3-speed-toploader-with-8-5-clutch-on-1965-200-ci.82994/

Note that all the early Manual Trans Bell Housings used in the 1960 to 1965 for the Ford Small Six’s and most of the 1966 year Six model’s will measure the same at 5 ½ (5.500) Inches deep. The first 1963 144 & 170 Six Econoline’s were the first of the early small Six’s to use the much better 3.03 3 Speed Transmissions. Ford made the special C3UA-6394-A Bell Housing to adapt the stronger 3.03 Transmissions these Bells are also 5 ½ (5.500) inches deep. To be able to fit them to the better 3.03 3 speed’s to do this they needed to use a shorter input shaft (about ¾ (.750) inch less) than all those used on the later 1967 and up 3.03 Transmission’s, they used the longer input shafts because the later Bigger Bell Housings are much deeper at 6 ¼ (6.250) inch.

One our site member’s “frozenrabbit” also used the Econoline C3UA-6394-A Bell Housing on small Six Block with a later 3.03 3 speed transmission he solved the Input Shaft Length problem by having the Input Shaft machined down in length to get everything to mate up correctly. He also found that he could use a 8 ½ (8.500) inch clutch disk for a 1983 Mercury Capri Six application that has a 10 spline, 1-1/16" ID Hub.

There are 3 different options to make one of the better 3.03 Top Loader 3 Speed, 4 Speed, or the late 1970’s 3 Speeds with Over Drive, Transmission’s into an early 1960 to 1965 Falcon, Comet, Fairlane, and Mustang’s, to name some of the FoMoCo models. Stock these year models originally had the 1960 to 1964 144’s or the 1961 to 1965 170’s, or the early 1963 ½ to 1965 200 Six engines that only had the single Bell Housing Bolt Pattern Blocks, also note that most of the 1966 models even though they would have 170 or 200 Six’s with the Duel Bell Housing Short Blocks they continued to use the 2.77 Trans Bells until the end of 1966 Model production. So to fit a 3.03 Transmission onto the early engine blocks you can use your current 2.77 Bell Housing with a ¾ inch thick Adapter Plate if you can locate or make one, or you could use the Econoline C3UA- Bell with either the Econoline short 1963 to 1966 3.03 input shaft or have someone Machine down your later 1967 & up 3.03 input shaft by ¾ (.750) inch shorter.

More details on the Econoline Bell Housing Swap

The 1963 to 1966 Ford Econoline 144 & 170 Six’s used the C3UA-6394-A Bell Housing, this its small Bolt Pattern Bell Housing that can be also be used to adapt a 3.03 Top Loader Transmission with a Narrow Mounting Pattern to any early engine block like 144’s, 170’s and first couple years of the 200 Six’s from the years 1960 to 1965 all of them only had the single Smaller Bolt Pattern Blocks.

These Econoline Bells still used the same 132 Tooth Ring Gear Stepped / (Dog Dish) Flywheel as you have now with your 2.77 Trans, but with an the different (10 Spine 1 1/16 inch diameter 8 1/2 Inch Clutch Assembly or you could just use the 10 Spline Disk if your Pressure Plate is still good usable condition. Also note that a stepped Flywheel using a stock Ford type Clutch Assembly should measure exactly 1 Inch from the Pressure Plates Mounting Flange down to the Disk’s Friction Surface for best operation and the longest lasting service of the Clutch.

A few more things, the input shafts for most of the Car 3.03 Transmission Family had a 10 Spline Input Shaft with a 1 1/16 Outside Diameter. You can look for a clutch disk for a 1963 to 1966 Econoline with a 144 or 170 Six or the 1983 Mercury Capri Six these are a couple of the OEM Ford 8 ½ inch clutch disks. Besides those there are also those sold by the aftermarket for the T5 Conversion’s using the smaller 2.77 Bell Housings this is the clutch disk that Modern Driveline sells. The pilot bushing to use would come from a stock 1967 up Mustang 200 Six or for the 289 / 302 V8’s both of them are the same diameters.

Some Info on the Ford 3 Speeds with Over Drives: In passenger cars from 1977 to 1978 the Manual Trans 3.03 Top Loaders were offered with an overdrive 4th gear. This was actually in the 3rd gear position as compared to a Top Loader 4 Speed. They flipped the shift lever arm upside down so when you shifted into 4th you actually were in the third gear place. A typical car that used this box was the Ford Granada’s and the Mercury Monarch’s. Gear Ratio for these 3 Speeds with Over Drive’s were: 3.29 1st, 1.84 2nd, 1.00 3rd, .81 4th, and 3.29 Rev.

Some of these Tag Numbers you find for these Transmissions are:

RUG BP
RUG CA
RUG CL
RUG CD

The casting numbers on the main case or tail housing start with D7DR for 1977 model. Some of the main cases have an ORION cast on the driver’s side. The gear teeth are cut very thin and the ratios are almost the same as an early 3 speed with .81 Over Drive in 4th. The Speed O Meter Cable Gear location is also on the opposite side as the other 3.03 Top Loader Transmissions. There was also a version of these Transmissions used in the F150 Ford Pick Ups too.
 
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not sure if stuff like this helps:
https://picclick.com/Ford-Aluminum-Bell ... 80057.html
there's plenty of it out there. I all ways wonder if we should collate it here on the site (repetition) for our members.
Takes some concentrated effort to weed thru it & as I say "collate' it, post it, etc...
 
Yes lots of good numbers and info here and I bookmarked this. Would be a good contribution to a sticky considering the ongoing activity with trans swaps. I would have to look but I think there is good info at Modern Driveline also. I have seen on here at least one good compilation by a member on a T5 install. It would be nice to have some member supplied articles similar to this on classicbroncos.com:
https://classicbroncos.com/tech/category/transmission

And the base 6 for the Bronco should have at least been the 250 starting in 1969! Or better yet the 300 but it would have been a little snug.
 
The 250's hauled some heavy cars around. I'd bet a lot of those 70's wagons and sedans weigh more than my van. Including it's 160# weight bolted in above the fuel tank behind the rear axle :D Like the '71 mustang. It's got to clock in pretty heavy from the looks of it. How much does one of those weigh? The 144 was standard equipment in 61-64 Econolines. A '64 "Heavy Duty" van had a solid lifter 170 w/ a 9" rear end! LOL
 
"...How much does one of those weigh? ..."
'70 Ford 500 wagon -
"Curb weight (without a driver):1860 kg / 4101 lbs"
(302 motor though)

'65 stang
Curb weight (without a driver):1189 kg / 2621 lbs

'69 stang:
Curb weight (without a driver):1295 kg / 2855 lbs

231 # difference, well that pretty much squashes that theory "went to the 250 frm 200 due to increased weight. :unsure:
 
Bell Housings and Transmissions

From 1960 to 1965 there were about 5 different bell housings used by Ford for the different car and truck model lines behind the 144, 170 and 200 Small Six's. These Manual Trans Bell Housings were all the same height and or distance from the back of the block (5 1/2 or 5.500 inch). These are all made for the single drilled small bell bolt pattern, and all are used with the 132 tooth Dog Dish Flywheel, the 8 1/2 inch clutch. And the same throwout bearing fork. The Aluminun bell housings will use a thin tin block plate (about 1/8) the plate is installed before the flywheel so it's sandwiched between bell housing and back of the block. On the very early ones the bell housing bolts up to the back of the block without the tin block plate, I think this is the one Cast Iron type bell housing should have a C0 casting number. Also all these bells will have the narrow Ford trans bolt pattern that Ford started using back in 1949. There are adapter plates to install a T5 trans with these bell housings see Modern Driveline for one source of parts and info for this swap.
http://transmission.moderndriveline.com ... e-p138.htm

8 1/2 Inch Clutch Options for the 132 Tooth Dog Dish Flywheels

It is important for proper clutch operation and holding ability that on a 8 1/2 inch Dog Dish type flywheel that it measures a depth of 1 inch from the pressure plate mounting ring down to the flywheels clutch disk face surface area. Modern Driveline also makes brand new Steel Billet 8 1/2 inch 132 tooth Dog Dish flywheels.

I know that there were suppose to be at least 4 companies that were recently making brand new stock 8 1/2 inch clutch kits used for the 1960 to 1966 years of Ford 144 & 170, & 1964 to 1965 200's engines. These are currently confirmed listings, the Zoom MU-721163-1, the RhinoPac # 15132-05292860 & # 15132-07455300, Perfection Clutches @ 1 800-258-8312 option 4 was another but I wasn't able to find a part number listing so you would need to call. Also Exedy Clutches are suppose to have a clutch kit I couldn't find a part number or catalog listing so research or call them too. In any case these are all stock application clutch kits. The kit that Modern Driveline sells is a T5 conversion clutch, it probably uses one of the above stock type pressure plates, with a custom disk made up with a larger diameter center hub or a disk from a different application (the stock disk is 10 spline X 15/16 diameter).

There are also two Diafram pressure plates that a number of people have used with great results "Rick Wrench" was the first one known to try this experimental combo on his Falcon Wagon logging 100,000 trouble free miles before he needed to replace it. These would require machining work to the upper flywheel mounting ring to install them and some clearance need for the wider pressure plate springs. To use these you would need to use a disk like you using now for stock Ford transmissions or a conversion T5 disk.

First one he used was the 1968 to 1994 Alfa Romeo 215 MM pressure plate from a 1750 or 2000 GTV, a 1750 or 2000 Spider flywheel depth is .875, this one lasted a 100,000.

Second one he used when it was time to replace first one was from a 1984 to 1986 Mercedes 190 E 215 MM Flywheel with a flywheel depth of .885, I think he's still running this unit last report it was at over 30,000 trouble free miles and that was many years back.

On running a larger then stock clutch yes there is a way to do it on an early single pattern 1960 to 1965 short block. Its also possible to use a custom made block plate and convert the block so that a SBF V8 6 bolt bell housing (289, 302, 5.0, 351), custom drilled 157 tooth V8 flywheel that's zero balanced, this would then allow you to use a 10 inch size V8 clutch. 1960 to early 1962 cars with small transmission tunnels will need some amount of hammering or cutting welding work to fit this bigger bell housing. :nod:

The Early Bell Housings

2 Aluminum Bell Housings and 1 Cast Iron that were made for use with the Borg Warner HED 2.77 3 Speed Transmission. See below for more info on these transmissions. Some of the Casting numbers are C0DD-6394-A, C3DA-6394-B, C5DA-6394-A,

1 Aluminum Bell Housing to fit the Dagenham 4 Speed Transmission in 1962 & 1963. Gear ratios 3.163 1st, 2.214 2nd., 1.412 3rd., 1.00 4th. Good trans for stock use though is considered weak for a performance use, rebuild parts are still available but are starting to get harder to locate companies that carry them. There is a T5 adapter plate made for this Bell Housing too.

1 Aluminum Bell Housing (C3UA-6394-A) made to fit the new for 1963 Ford built 3.03 top loader 3 Speed for use in the Heavy Duty Econoline models. This bell housing was used in some of the Econoline's (144 and the 170 engines) from 1963 to 1967. The great thing about this unique factory bell housing is that it can be used to swap the bullet proof all Synchro's 3.03 trans into your early model Falcon / Comet car, Fairlane, Ranchero pickup etc. Thanks to Mike "lavron" for taking apart his setup to provide these details, measurements, and pictures of this excellent swap that he did over 30 years ago on the 170 in his 1964 Mercury Comet (see his above posts for the details in #2 & #10 showing the parts he used and how he did it). See below for more info on these transmissions. If I remember correctly I think "frozenrabbit" is also using this bell swap in his Ranchero build.

Ford Six Manual Transmission Swap Parts
http://straightsixshootin.weebly.com

Modern Driveline Article on Ford Six Bell Housings
http://www.moderndriveline.com/Technica ... cation.htm

Modern Driveline Article on Flywheels and Clutches
http://www.moderndriveline.com/Technica ... tch-up.htm

I think they did a good job on their article, but were it might confuse some people is their statement that all the later models only used the 9 inch clutch and flat flywheel. This is for sure a true statement, however this doesn't mean that all the later 200 block aren't also drilled as Duel Pattern Blocks. Since the C4 was used from 1964 through to 1981 (and the High Mount Starter Blocks used for Manual Transmissions were used all the way up to the end of 1983), this was the end of the 200 engine production, and they were made in mainly one configuration for all most all of the 200 small block Ford Six's. The exceptions were (the early 1960 to 1965 144, 170, & 200 Blocks all of those were the single Bell Pattern) and there are also those Rare 1982 & 1983 Big Bell 200 Six these have a low mount starter and made for use with only the new C5 Trans. All the others using the C4 Auto's or even the earlier Ford O or the Merc O 2 speed auto's used the Original Smaller Bell Housing Bolt Pattern so I believe that all the later high mount starter 200 blocks 1966 up to 1981 (and likely the 1982 and 1983 High Mounts) would also have been drilled and tapped with both of the Bell Bolt Patterns too.

The Borg Warner HED (2.77) 3 Speed Transmission
These small, light weight, medium duty transmissions were made in mostly column shift (3 on the tree) versions in the early models. Also there were some made with a Ford factory floor shift for use in the 1964 1/2 to 1966 Mustangs, Deluxe Falcon Futura's and I think also some S22 Comets with the bucket seats. These transmissions only have synroc's in 2nd and 3rd gear so you need to come to a complete stop to go into 1st. Gear Ratio's were 3.39 1st, 1.97 2nd, 1.00 3rd / High, a few of the Casting numbers are 1U3B, 1U3C. The HED these are suitable for stock to mild use.

Econoline Transmissions
http://www.econoline.org/transmission.php?s=id

If you plan on building up your engine for more even performance and or plain on doing some sprinted driving than you should upgrade the Trans to at least to the excellent 3.03, a Top Loader 4 Speed, or go with a T5. A B&W T10 could also be adapted with a little work though the 4 speeds are sometimes commanding high prices so it maybe much cheaper to just go with a T5.

Ford or Mercury Small Block Six Cars that were ordered with an Automatic Transmission used the Aluminum Bell / Case 2 Speed Ford O / Merc O Matic until 1964. Then in late 1964 some 200's would get the newer C4 Duel Range 3 Speed Trans.

1963 was the first year of the 3.03 Trans and was only used in the Econoline with a small Six. In 1966 the first of the Car type bell housings for use with the larger 136 Tooth Flat Flywheel and bigger 9 inch Clutch combo was made. Casting Part # C6DA-6394-A, this was the 1966 Bell housing it uses a one off smaller trans bolt pattern it is Angled on the bottom, and has a 6 & 1/4 6.250 Inch Hight / Depth. I don't know which Trans was used with this Bell Housing it might be a 3.03 Top Loader, but I haven't seen this setup in many years. They do use the two bolt starter, and they were mostly found in the Fairlane's, and also some ID them as being for the Late Dagenham 4 Speed Trans.

1967 C7ZA-6394-A is the first year for a 3.03 bell with the bigger wider trans bolt pattern they were drilled for both the large trans bolt pattern and has a 6 & 1/4 6.250 Inch Hight / Depth. All the Bells from this year through to at least 1977 are basically the same and will all use the 136 Tooth flat flywheel and 9 inch clutch combo. There are two throw-out bearing arms for them and the Bell uses the two bolt starter. There is a adapter plate made to fit the T5 onto these bells also, see Modern Driveline for parts and info on these there are two that are made.

First is clocked 5 degrees.
http://transmission.moderndriveline.com ... -7p137.htm

No rotation
http://transmission.moderndriveline.com ... -7p537.htm

250 Six Bell Housings
The 250's from 1969 to 1983 all used a 6 bolt bell housings made for the 3.03 3 speed or a top loader 4 speed will also bolt up. Because the 250 shares the same bolt pattern as the 5.0 V8 any thing that can bolt to a 302 / 5.0 can also bolt up to the 250, the starter is the same as the 302 / 5.0 too. Including also the C4, C5, C6, AOD, AODE, and many more. Flywheels and Flex plates with 157 tooth count fit most 1965 up cars and with little BFH / hammer work the mid 1962 up cars can fit them, 1960 & 61 cars will take a bit more work.

The 3.03 Ford Transmissions

These are a great Ford designed trans that was first introduced in 1963 in the Econoline Heavy Duty Vans and they are bullet proof transmissions, so much so that they were used even behind the big block Ford V8's. A little known fact is that GM also needed a stronger trans for use behind their big block V8 engines (BOPE) in their Buick's, Olds, and Pontiac's models, so they made a deal with Ford to supply them the 3.03 in the 1960's, also the they were used by AMC in 1976 to 79 CJ 5 Jeeps used the 3.03 (know as the T150) with a floor shifter top cover, these shifters can be swapped onto the Ford trans versions too for use in like a F100 to F350 or maybe in some of the Econoline Vans if you wanted a floor shifter.

Gear ratios came in four versions in the various model Fords
Econoline trans in 1963 to 1967 behind the 144 & 170 small six's they had ratios of 3.41 1st, 1.86 2nd, 1.00 3rd. These same gear ratios were also used in the early Bronco 170 six in 1966 and 1967. This is good for some swap s as you could use this low 1st gear ratio with a higher rear axle gear ratio for a little better MPG / economy. These three speeds can be re-geared using any of the available factory gear sets that were offered so with a little work you could come up with a custom setup. To do this you would need the cluster gear, plus it's matching main shaft gears, and reverse gear. These are the other three ratios Ford used.

2.99, 1.75, 1.00, 3.17 Used in Ford pickups.
2.79, 170, 1.00,
2.42, 1.61, 1.00, 2.33. Used behind the FE V8's (352, 360, & 390 engines) has the closest ratio spread.

The 3.03 main cases are 12 inches long and there are four different tail housing lengths for a total trans length of 25 1/2, 26, 27 inches. I don't know the Econoline length which is the shortest. I don't know what the GM, or AMC Jeeps, tail housing measure. Ford input shafts came in two Diameters of 1 1/16 or for big block V8's in a 1 3/8 inch, there may also be two different lengths too.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_To ... ansmission

Borg Warner also built an excellent 3 speed with Overdrive trans with the 3.03 front case and gears called the T85 (using their bullet proof R-11 OD unit on the tail housing) I have mostly only seen these transmissions in the mid to late 1960's Ford Pickups and one that I bought for my 1958 Ranchero it looked like was a car application. But If you can find one of these transmissions and don't mine modding or building a custom crossmember to mount it in your car and cutting down your drive shaft or having a new one built, they are great shifting and with some custom wiring (ask me if you need this info) you can then have a custom 6 speed Trans that's excellent and in my OPIN is even better than a T5.

Borg Warner Overdrive Operation
http://www.fordification.com/tech/overdrive.htm

The top loader 4 Speed is also built on this design so could be easy swap too however they are getting expensive and you could likely get a good deal still on a T5.

Top Loader 4 speeds
https://www.5speeds.com/toploader.html

The T170 RUG trans is a lookalike Overdrive trans 3 Speed overdrive used in some cars and Ford pickups.

D9 bell housing (1979 to 1983) was made for the SROD trans is an Overdrive 4 Speed Trans this bell is 3/4 inch taller and though it looks like the same mounting as the earlier 3.03. But the SROD bell housing center hole is 4.85 I don't know what the earlier 3.03 measures yet? and because the input shaft is 3/4 inch longer too it might only be able to be used with A D9 bell. There might be a T5 adapter plate or way to mod the bell for use with T5, I don't know this yet?

Last is the T4 bell (1981) was made for the Fox Chassis cars and it uses a cable type clutch throw-out gearing arm this bell was made for a he T4 trans which is the forerunner to the T5 it uses the same mounting points and larger 4.91 center hole so it can be used to bolt up a T5 trans without an adapter plate.

T5 swaps for the Falcon Six

The T5's are an excellent and easy upgrade for the Falcon Six the T5's that are suitable and fit our Falcons, Comets, Mustangs, six's are those were used in the Fox chassis cars. They came in two versions a 2.3 4 cylinder T5's (these have lower gear ratios) and the 5.0 V8 T5's additionally there was an early non World Class and later stronger World Class. T5's from 1982 to 1993 have the correct input shaft length to fit the original stock Ford six bell housings with several available adapter plates. The later SN95 T5's from 1994 and 1995 5.0 V8 / 2.3 4 cylinder cars can also be used by swapping the in the 3/4 inch shorter input shaft from an earlier T5 World Class Fox chassis trans 1993 and older. There are also many online sources to help I'd the T5's by there tag numbers and help you combine parts from other brands such as the S10 tail housing conversion or even rebuilding a World Class T5 to handle up to 500 horsepower if you need that kind of info. Modern Drive also has newer versions of the Tremic T5 that can fitted and complete swap kits contact them for these options if you want a complete or partial Kit example below is for parts available for the 1964 1/2 to 1966 Mustangs.

https://www.moderndriveline.com/shop/so ... s-1965-66/

The C4 Auto Trans

The C4's are another of Fords excellently designed transmissions, they can be built up to handle lots of Horsepower and Torque. Parts availability (Factory and Aftermarket) is very good because of its popularity. They are fairly easy to install since the 144, 170, & 200 Six versions all used the small early bolt Bell Housing pattern, block plate, flex plate, and torque converter with its mounted 132 tooth ring gear, can fit any early single or duel bolt pattern block to 1981 and other up to 1983. The one exception is the Rare 1982 & 1983 Big Bell 200 Block made only for use with the C5 Trans. Note you can also Mod it easy to use the 5.0 V8 6 Bolt Bell's to fit them. The cars all use a Case Fill C4 Trans small Bell Housing these will bolt up to any of the of the small pattern Ford Six blocks from a 144, 170, and up to all most any 200 block again except for the exception of the rare 1982 & 1983 Big Bell 200 Block.

Or for use on a 250 six the car 6 bolt V8 bell housing will be a direct interchange (used on the later 1965 289 up, or all 302 / 5.0, 351 C & 351W used with a 157 tooth count flex plate, use the same V8 starter on the 250, 240, and 300 six. Some of the big Ford / Mercury cars and all trucks stock will use Pan Fill (164 tooth count flex plates to bolt up to a 250's, 240, 300, Six's and all small block V8's late 1965 289, 302, 351 C & W) many racers prefer to use the Pan Fill type C4 as its a bit stronger. Stock the 1964 to 1966 model C4's are all Duel Range (Green Dot P,R,N,D1,D2,L) and the 1967 up to end of production are Select Shift (P,R,N,D,2,1) which is much better for Hi Performance.

Ford C4 Identification 1964 to 1972
http://fordification.com/tech/transapps_65-72cars.htm

Ford C4 identification 1973 to 1979 Cars and Bronco's
http://www.fordification.net/tech/trans ... 79cars.htm

Lincoln Mercury Cars C4 Identification 1973 to 1979
http://www.fordification.net/tech/trans ... ncMerc.htm

Ford C4 & C5 info
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_C4_transmission

Any year C4 can be upgraded with the right parts though it is usually cheaper to start with a later model one this is why I like to use the 1971 302 or 351 V8 and up transmissions which will all ready have all those better factory improvements. There are many Mod's to improve this trans starting with a good shift kit such as a TransGo and a aftermarket auxiliary trans cooler, different servo covers, using the V8 drums for extra clutches and steels. Another one of my favorites is what Is called a "Poor Mans Overdrive" were you use a low gear set, this allows you to use a higher rear axle gear ratio for better MPG / Economy without sacrificing performance. There are also overdrive units that can be added onto the back of the trans.

let me know if you have anything to add or any part of this that needs correcting. :nod: (y)
 
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xctasy":3kjzh5rp said:
Yep, if its ex automatic, everything will fit on the stock dowls. The D8 with a GC suffix is 1978-1983 block, high mount.

Make sure you use the original fasteners that were on the old block, and the old flywheel or flexplate. They vary between manual and automatic, and the bolts can touch the main seal and create spectacular diss-arry if you put long bolts into a six open holes on the crank flange.

drag-200stang":3kjzh5rp said:
If the 78 block was a manual you just pull the two dowel pins and relocate them to the smaller auto pattern holes.

B RON CO":3kjzh5rp said:
Hi, as mentioned, the 200 blocks are drilled for the small early Falcon manual, and C4 bell housing, and the larger 9" clutch bell housing.
Use the engine spacer plate to line up the dowels. Some dowels can be punched out, and some are more difficult to yank, or just grind off flush and find a new one.
Also, the old carb won't fit on the new head.
Fortunately, the new head is a big improvement over the original.
The ignition is also better.
Get the Ford Falcon Performance Handbook to get the most out of your Ford six.
Good luck

frozenrabbit":3kjzh5rp said:
A '65 200 block is not dual pattern drilled, '65 blocks were still 8 1/2" clutch and smaller C4 bell. Dual bolt pattern started in '66.

A '78 200 is not dual pattern either, A '78 block is 9" clutch, later C4 pattern only.

'65 bell won't bolt to a '78 block.

StarDiero75 can vouch for this, he just dealt with a 8 1/2" to 9" 200 block swap.


xctasy":3kjzh5rp said:
Frozenrabbit is 100 % right in the statement above, for manuals; the swap of pre 66 blocks is not upwards compatible with any later non 2.77 manual gear boxes. Pre 66 blockd shoulf fit some specific later Autos, but only high mount C3/mid 1981 C4 transmissions. Any thing that came from the something like E0-6015-BB or E1BE-6015 will be low mount, and wont work either.

In context of a high mount only D8 swap to a 65 auto drivetrain, it is IIRC, drilled for the itty bitty 132 teeth flexplate and that stayed the same all years


Its only upwards compatible for auto D8-6015-GC blocks from certain years.Circumstances alter cases.

The 78 - 83 high mount bell is 132 teeth, small bolt spacing drilled for automatics.That never changed. As long as the dowels are in place, straight swap.

So if its 1978 - 1983 C3 high mount auto to whatever earlier auto, your all good. 1978-1981 high mount C4, all good too.

The 8- 1/2" clutch 2.77 manual gear box is the same pattern as the early C4's too. 9 to 9-1/8" 3.03 had to use the second set of holes, 136 teeth flywheel and that is the subtle difference.

Econoline":3kjzh5rp said:
No, that's the point of a dual pattern block, so the old small stuff will bolt up. It will be a straight bolt in. The only time you're hosed is if you are trying to go in the other direction, i.e. bolting up later 9" drivetrain to an early small pattern only block.


StarDiero75":3kjzh5rp said:
frozenrabbit":3kjzh5rp said:
A '65 200 block is not dual pattern drilled, '65 blocks were still 8 1/2" clutch and smaller C4 bell. Dual bolt pattern started in '66.

A '78 200 is not dual pattern either, A '78 block is 9" clutch, later C4 pattern only.

'65 bell won't bolt to a '78 block.

StarDiero75 can vouch for this, he just dealt with a 8 1/2" to 9" 200 block swap.
Aww you remembered me lol. Yes this is true. My new 1966 block is a dual drilled while the 1965 block is not. I worked on an adapter plate to go from the 8.5" to 9" setup but i had some holes that needed enlarging and some slight fitment issues. I haven't fixed the plate but thats a future project now

You can attempt to make an adapter plate from .25" plate steel but I think that'd be pointless. If you're running a C4, just get a later bell and converter.


drag-200stang":3kjzh5rp said:
I remember someone that had to drill his own small pattern dowel pin hole.,but that was probably a manufacture glitch...I also
have never seen a 66 up high mount starter not a duel pattern.
I have a low mount block and it has a 164 tooth flex plate on it, same diameter as a 300 11 '' clutch flywheel.

Thanks drag-200stang, thats Quite Interesting on the late 200 Big Bell block, a 164 tooth flex plate then with this info there's another possibility that they may have used a C5 trans with a bigger lock up converter. I haven't had the chance to have one of these rare blocks or work on one, thank you for adding more info on them. :nod: (y)
 
Ok i think it's about everything here now on block differance's, so if the site members will go over this info and let me know if any additional info needs to be added or the things that may need to be corrected, or rearranged for better clarity too. Then we could also add some more pictures. Thank you all for sharing your info and knowledge! (y) :nod:
 
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