Smoke From Carb!

Hey all, this is my first post on the forum! I have had my ford for only a few months and it is almost there! Car hasn't moved in 20 years so I have read here and gained a ton on knowledge, and have done a lot of trouble shooting to this post based on what I could find. However, my issue is when the car is cold after sitting all night, I hop in turn the key and it fires right up! will come to an idle and then surge revving up and down until it stalls. Sometimes If i keep feeding it some gas I can keep it running but obviously that's not the goal - and only sometimes. Main issue is fuel delivery. I have adjusted points, new fuel lines, filters pre and post pump, new coil, ignition switch, and other stuff I'm forgetting I'm sure, double and triple checked wiring also. So Once the car stalls there is vapor or smoke coming out of the top of the carb and if I let the carb spray fuel, more smoke. The carb bowl feels warm to the touch, fuel lines are still cool. I feel like it isn't running long enough (5 minutes before stalling) to be vapor lock. It's almost like it hits the intake manifold and evaporates. Please help me ! I have some skill but am not a pro by any means. Thanks in advance!


Chris

Congrats on getting your car running after it’s been setting for 20 years that’s a real accomplishment. Did you rebuild the carb too? If no this is the place to start. Good luck

W E L C O M E !!!
& stick around, lotta good guys who offer top notch advice !

Step One may B to ID all the components U have (which carb, head, motor, rear end, etc)
as U must start out w/what ya got B4 changing, modin, knowin just whats there to get it
to its optimum. \Sounds like ur on the right path as U have done a lill research. R U
familiar w/the LOM/SCV dizzy/carb feedback system? What model/yr carb'n ign system do U have?
As U may know "the Handbook" and tech archive compose 1/2 - 3/4 of the recommended
research materials. This system is IDed'n reviewed there...

Hi,the trouble could be in the carb, like dirt, stuck needle and seat (gentle tapping with a plastic screwdriver handle on the top of the carb by the fuel inlet can fix a stuck needle), stuck float (same fix).
Before I tore in the carb, I would check the fuel pump for volume of fuel by removing the fuel line at the carb and hold a coffee can under the fuel line and while the engine is cranking, using a remote starter switch on the solenoid or have a helper turn the key, see how long it takes to fill a coffee can. A good fuel pump will fill a coffee can in about 20 seconds.
Be very careful working around gasoline.
And get the Ford Falcon Performance Handbook to get the most out of your Ford six.
Good luck

2 X ^^^^^ "...Ford Falcon Performance Handbook..."
many of us patronize Matt at vintage inlines dot com
(@ about $25 I believe) as he caters to our 6 "Falcon" - Thrift Power motors (1960 - '96).

Thanks for all the fast replies! Sorry I left out some major points about the car itself, from what I have read but don't know how to confirm its got the 144, and the 3 speed manual trans. Its mated with a holley 1909 carb, rebuild kits are pretty straight forward for this which I tried earlier this week and still no luck. Reset the float level a few times, same results with it properly set, too high and too low. fuel pressure seems good with the coffee can trick, plenty of gas is coming out to fill the bowl. I have a lot of pictures so I will get those posted soon.

Chris

"...don't know how to confirm its got the ...."
that's Y I mention "the Handbook", I would think "yr" would B 1st. Loook on pass side of block, to rear of the dwn tube
of exhaust. 2 or 3 rows of #/ltrs. Report back numbers/ltrs.
C= 60s
D= 70s
2nd position = yr of manufacture. Clean w/brush & solvent if the lill guy aint seen no lub in ages. As mentioned - take care around hot prts'n flammables...
the 144 is '60 - 64 only. Has 3 frost plugs above the #/ltrs U just gathered. Some 1 else may help U find & decode tags (in door jamb?).

Ok so i feel silly but the only numbers i see on the block by the exhaust is a "12". info from door tag comes out to this:
1962-
58A 4 dr coupe
E Viking Blue
22 5,6- cloth,blue
21E - 21st of May
51 - Denver
5 - 3:50:1 - open rear
1 - 3sp. manual

Here is a google link with a lot of pictures, some are just random but there is a short video in there of my carb issue and also the numbers on the block that I found. Going back out to try and find other markings..https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... MaO-EmcqLh

bones 92":319aes6v said:

Ok so i feel silly but the only numbers i see on the block by the exhaust is a "12". info from door tag comes out to...Here is a google link with a lot of pictures

Click to expand...

I'll say alota pic. Will try'n weed my way thru

"...Clean w/brush & solvent if the lill guy aint seen no lub in ages. As mentioned - take care around hot prts'n flammables...
the 144 is '60 - 64 only. Has 3 frost plugs above the #/ltrs U just gathered. Some 1 else may help U find & decode tags..."

The 'plugs' look like circular indents - top of block, below head, run horizontally acc the block, also behind that 'dwn tube' of the exhaust. Time to order The Ford...Six Cyl. Performance Handbook frm Matt...

EDIT
U, mah man, R heroic. It took me 3 - 5 broncos in '83/4 to make my 1'n noneadem were as bad as the 1 U have come from. The "12" is not it. The numbers we seek R above & well to the left or other side of that down tube...
AND
as bubs sez below: "...there will be a flat boss..." but to me that is harder to find than these big numbers I mention...
C'mo back @ us w/what you find - nuttin? we'll direct you better...
Again CONGRATS !!! for what you've accomplished so far. When U get the Handbook - I think U will C U don't have the correct yr carb (the LOM/SCV dizzy/carb 'feedback' system...I saw no SCV on the side of that Holley - I may B wrong tho!).

Lastly, yes, that smoke is not smoke, its vaporized gas. U want that. Blip the throttle & it appears - success. Do it w/the key in on position - it get sucked into the 'log' (long tube like intake) & onto combustion chambers to start/run the vehicle...

From your pictures your car looks to have the orginal engine still in it. To verify this looking at the right front top corner (just below the head deck) of the engine block there will be a flat boss on all 1960 to 63 engines. That will have either an N stamped in it code for a 144 six or a T code for a 170 six. The Casting / Design numbers and a Date Codes are also cast into the major parts like block, head, ect. The head number is right on top of the intake log next to the carburetor. You if you are planing to restore your car to Factory Original I wrote a post on the correct engine colors Ford the sec for these early six'es too see below link. Something else to do that is almost free and can have a big effect on a car that has sat unused that many years is to clean up the electrical and ground connections really well on the car so that they are all good snug contacts. If your engine is an original 1962 it will have a solid lifter cam. Have you checked the Hot valve lash or done valve lash setting yet? Have you done a compression test yet? If so what were the results?

Here is info on how the stock Load O Matic (LOM) distribitor works too.
https://fordsix.com/ci/Loadomatic.html

Here are the Stock 1962 144 or 170 Tune up specs
Distribitor rotates CW firing order is 153624
Autolite BF-82 plugs gaped at .034.
Basic Points setting gapping them at .025 but for the very best performance your looking for a Dwell setting of 37 Degrees.
Base timing is set to 4 Degrees BTDC for a Standard ( Stick) trans and 12 Degrees BTDC for a Automatic trans.
Idle RPM is 550 to 600 RPM for a Standard Trans and 500 to 525 RPM with an Auto Trans in Drive, parking brake set,
Fuel pressure is 4.5 PSI

To get most accurate tune up with a orginal point ignition always use of a tach / dwell meter, and also a timing light. This is the procedure I have used for decades to quickly do a precision tune up.

A good tune up follows this order of work.
1. Set the plug gap to .034
2. Set the points basic setting to .025 after its running set the Dwell Angel to factory spec of 37 degrees.
3. Now you need to set the timing to the 6 degrees (with stick Trans) or 12 degrees (Auto Trans) base timing vacuum line disconnected and plugged. You can also try more base timing to as much as 16 degrees but if there is any hint of pinging when you try it driving it up a slight grade then back it off until it stops. Reinstall the vaccum line to the Distribitor after setting the base timing.
4. With engine warmed up good, the intake and exhaust valve lash is set to .016 hot.
5. With warmed up good and the choke blade is fully open too. Set the Idle mixture to its Lean Best Idle. ie set to highest idle RPM then turn the mixture screw in 1/4 turn to lean it. See Addistional Notes below.
6. Set the curb idle speed to 550 to 600 RPM if standard Trans. Set idle RPM's to 500 to 525 RPM with an Auto trans in drive parking brake set, wheels chocked with block of wood, or you can have someone set in it and hold the brakes.
7. Repeat 5. & 6. To see if it improves anymore. When properly tuned these engines (when warmed up) will restart without even touching the gas pedal.

Addistional Notes
You might also test your coils output with the volt / ohm meter to see that it's within spec. Or you can do it by watching the spark color (a Bright Blue) and the lenght it can jump to cap terminal (from 1/2 inch or more).

While doing the tune up settings to the carb mixture and curb idle setting the engine needs everything installed and hooked up just as it will be operated! This includes having the Air Cleaner with a clean air filter installed and the PCV hooked up if your engine has one. If you want to use a Vacuum gauge then hook that up to the Intake Log below the Carb you would be looking for about a steady 17 inches of vacuum at idle RPM. Good luck in your tuning. A good upgrade for these engines is a Pertronix Ignitor engine still looks stock but gives you a hotter spark. Good luck

Ford Six Early Engine Colors
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=77044&p=594605&hilit=Engine+colors#p592955

If you have smoke coming from the carb, would this not be an ignition issue guys? I had an issue where the negative on my hei came undone while i was driving and it took me about 10 mins to figure it out. I finally realized that if smoke is coming out of the carb when the engine is hot, that means the gas is not being ignited, thus its an ignition issue. If you just changed a bunch of that stuff, maybe you didn't adjust something right or didn't replace something you should have.

hafta look, not read
he's not crackin

You guys rock! I'll try to cover everything you all asked, As you can tell this is my first huge overhaul so I'm trying to be as specific as I can!
First of all i have ordered the handbook, i'm sure that will help!
I'll have to get to scrubbing because the motor is so dirty and need to find all the org numbers but the thing is just super dirty still.
From what you guys are saying is its most likely an ignition issue?
I have done a compression test its pretty low at 75-90 on all 6, not sure if that's two low to let it run.
I have the firing order correct, I adjusted the points to .025 need to check the dwell though.
I have not checked the valve lash, i'm sure there is a thread on it.
Had the timing at 6 degrees
I will go through and do the entire tune up in sequence with the dwell meter tomorrow (if i can get it to run long enough)

Side note I also noticed the generator sparking on the inside through a slot in the casing. Something to replace/big issue? I saw a lot of people doing the alternator conversion.

Thanks for all the help so far!

The engine will likely run with only the 70 to 90 psi may not be good but you will likely get a somewhat better compression test result after the valve lash is set correctly. The engine compression may also improve with some use to since it was setting so long or it may need to be taken apart and everything cleaned up real good, some time and experimenting will let you know.

On your generator sparking since that car sat for so long the gens commentator is probably dirty and needs to be cleaned with emery paper or recut it may also need a set of new brushes & bearings, you could swap it out for rebuilt unit or even convert to an alternator just depends on your goals / plans for the use of your car. Good luck

"...not sure if that's two low to let it run..."
its abt being w/in % of each other too.

"... are sayin its ignition ..."
yes/no. Ign should be squared away 1st in sequence of operation...

Hey Everyone,

So it's been a long hiatus from the Falcon with cold weather and lack of time in general. I FINALLY got back out there today with my dad, and this is what we found / what is happening:
1. 90% sure is the the 144 BUT no casting code on the block (Picture attached to see if I'm still exploring the right spot) nor an N or T on the front of the block but if someone has a picture of where the N or T should be I will look again tomorrow.
2. Replaced the started after it started grinding - new starter engages great and I will check the gear to make sure its not tearing up the flywheel or starter again.
3. (Last thing) Sat in the car set the choke almost all the way closed and BOOM started right up! This was promising after sitting through winter and not moving in months out of the snow. After about 3-5 minutes it seemed like it was warming up and then it died. It seemed like it was pretty happy until this moment, then all of a sudden it wont start.

It was still cranking great, still had spark, fuel was filling the filter, no matter where the choke was it never sounded like it was going to start again.

So my question now is where do I go from here as far as trouble shooting why it won't even idol. Please help! with warm weather around the corner I am motivated to get this thing on the road!

Thanks as usual, sorry if any of this is redundant, and hopefully someone has some idea of what the issue may be.
new photos:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jljA7OnZCduAXXOOEEeUeuxyG_oh4akD

From your pictures and cylinder head Casting / Design Numbers your car looks to have the orginal 144 engine in it to me. To verify this standing in front of the car facing the engine and looking at the right front top corner (just below the head deck) of the engine block there will be a flat boss on all 1960 to 63 engines. That will have either an N stamped in it code for a 144 six or a T code for a 170 six (see below link) some of the engines (later years like 63 or 64) are not always stamped and will then have a metal tag. The Casting / Design numbers and a Date Codes are also cast into the major parts like block, head, ect. The head number is right on top of the intake log next to the carburetor. Check this link for the second picture it is the location of block code on 144 or 170 engines. Sounds like you made a little progress you will need to focus more on the carb and its condition. Good luck

Early Engine Code Location
ci/Ident-2.html

I hate to sound stupid in this question, but I just went outside and looked for the N or T again and maybe I don't understand where this should be. I looked on the right front top of the head and don't see a flat bossed area. Do I have to remove something to see it? I saw the picture but I guess its not clear enough for me to understand. (I know I will feel silly once I find it) I will scrape some more junk tomorrow after work..

Hi, since your Falcon started and ran for a few minutes, and then stalled,with no hope of firing up again I have twp guesses.
Maybe the engine is flooding so while it is running look for fuel dumping into the venturi from the bowl vent. That would mean the needle, seat, and float is not controlling the fuel level. If fuel is dumping into the engine pull a spark plug and it will be wet. There is also a good chance of raw gas washing down the cylinder walls and mixing with the oil. If that is happening, the oil is diluting, and may raise the level on the dip stick, and you will need to change the oil soon.
The other guess is the fuel, or not enough fuel is getting into carb bowl. The engine burns the fuel in the bowl and stalls. The bowl is empty and won't fill fast enough. The causes are weak fuel pump, crack in a fuel line, dirt in the carb, or clogged filter(s). Are you sure the rubber line at the sender and the fuel pump are good? Can you gently blow compressed air from the connection at the fuel pump into the gas tank and hear bubbles? If the tank, sender, or line from the tank are in question, you can feed gas from a gallon can under the fuel pump with a rubber hose and hopefully the engine will run all day from the remote gas tank.
Or, what I would look at first, needle, seat, or stuck float.
If the engine runs out of gas and stalls the plugs will be dry.
If it was my engine I would pull a spark plug after it stalls, and if the plug is wet, take apart the carb. If the plug is dry, I would pour a a shot glass of gas into the carb and see if it fires up.
Good luck

Hey B RON CO, So funny enough I have done most of this already! I used a remote tank under the pump to eliminate other variables, (even though I replaced the fuel tank and sending unit and cleared out the lines) I just wanted to see exactly what was happening with the remote tank. Started and ran for a few minutes, I pulled the plugs after no start and cranking it several times, plugs and top of the cylinder were both bone dry (a little carbon build up from it not getting up to temp but dry none the less). Then tried exactly what you say to try and dumped just a little fuel into the carb and same result, no start. I will be checking it out more tonight and I excited to keep testing so let me know what to try next!