t5 swap 66 mustang 200

The base number for this Ford starter application is 3157 this is for the old style large case starter used from the early 1960's through to 1983 (end of production of the small block six). With this number you can cross referance it over to the Mini Starters, here is a listing showing all the applications of this mini style starter see the below link.

https://robbmcperformance.com/products/ ... arter.html

Note that Fords have two different starter offsets 3/8 or 3/4 inch as well as two or three bolt mountings. You can figure out the offset by measuring from the face of the starter mounting boss to the flywheel face. Generally the 3/8 inch off set is for a manual trans and the 3/4 inch fits an auto trans. If you want the old style large case starter as an example look for a 1967 to 70 Falcon or Mustang with a 200 six and manual trans (a two bolt).

If you want to go with a stock Ford style mini type starter look for a 1992 to 96 5.0 with a 5 speed trans (also is used on some late 4.9 EFI (300) engines used in F150 pickup with a 5 speed. These stock type starters are quit good and are the ones I have most often used on my budget builds. On my next all out build though I am planing to use the RobbMc mini starter in above link. Good luck (y) :nod:
 
Be super careful about the snout measurement, I put a robbmc starter on my 200/c4 and it was awesome. I swapped to a t5 and didn’t re-measure, and mangled the snout. It was not inexpensive to fix, and they didn’t make a mounting plate for my specific setup. I’d have to dig up my emails, but IIRC, I bought a 302 plate and had an acquaintance weld a new ear on it for my bolt pattern.
 
Another " quick " question. Apparently my flywheel 136 tooth for a 9-inch clutch has some teeth missing. I could pay the $45 to have it resurfaced and cross my fingers that the starter doesn't get locked up on the missing teeth.

So I'm trying to find a new flywheel. Yes I can purchase one for $250 to $400. But like most people on this website we are trying to do it on the cheap.

O'Reilly and AutoZone have a 9-inch clutch flywheel. That looks like it would work. Its for a 1984 SVO 4 cylinder turbo Mustang,.. all the dimensions look correct, but I don't know about the bolt pattern in the center.

However, it says 132 teeth. So will this flywheel work? (Of course then I have to figure out the starter problem). Autozone, o'riley, Napa, do not have a listing for a flywheel for 1980 Fairmont or a 1967 Mustang or 66 Mustang with a 3.3 L.

It does seem that I can use the 1978 through the 1980 Fairmont, Granada clutch set... the question is , can I? Also, I guess I can use the Fairmount, Granada pilot bearing
What would you guys do? Again thanks
 
Mach1Mark":cvz49jj9 said:
Another " quick " question. Apparently my flywheel 136 tooth for a 9-inch clutch has some teeth missing. I could pay the $45 to have it resurfaced and cross my fingers that the starter doesn't get locked up on the missing teeth.

So I'm trying to find a new flywheel. Yes I can purchase one for $250 to $400. But like most people on this website we are trying to do it on the cheap.

O'Reilly and AutoZone have a 9-inch clutch flywheel. That looks like it would work. Its for a 1984 SVO 4 cylinder turbo Mustang,.. all the dimensions look correct, but I don't know about the bolt pattern in the center.

However, it says 132 teeth. So will this flywheel work? (Of course then I have to figure out the starter problem). Autozone, o'riley, Napa, do not have a listing for a flywheel for 1980 Fairmont or a 1967 Mustang or 66 Mustang with a 3.3 L.

It does seem that I can use the 1978 through the 1980 Fairmont, Granada clutch set... the question is , can I? Also, I guess I can use the Fairmount, Granada pilot bearing
What would you guys do? Again thanks
Click to expand...

Engines tend to stop in the same location so when a starter goes bad and its left unrepared it damages the ring gear in that location and you can also count on a bad ring gear taking out a new starter. If the flywheel is decent otherwise why not just get a new ring gear to replace the damaged one it's fairly easy to change out and should be quite low cost compared to getting another flywheel. In a real time pinch to get a car or truck back in service many ring gears have been taken off, flipped over and or staggered, but as cheap as a new ring gear it's much better to get a new one since you will have some time to locate one. I would say the 2.3 L SVO flywheel isn't going to be a direct bolt on either so will likely to add additional trouble to your swap. Good luck (y) :nod:
 
"...Granada/Fairmont..."
don't forget, they had 3 or 4 motors
 
Sorry, I apologize. To clarify, the 78 through 80 Fairmont or Granada 3.3 L 200 cdi. I believe these parts stores have a diagram style clutch set for significantly less money. I read in some past post that these cars have the same clutch set has the 66 Mustang 200 straight 6. So instead of paying National Parts Depot $300 for their clutch set. I can get a clutch set from a 78 through 80 Fairmont or Granada for about $100 from one of these parts stores. Will these clutch sets work for my vehicle. Just clarifying.
 
national parts depo should have the a ring gear, i replaced mine after i had my flywheel resurfaced. Use an acetlyne torch to heat the old one up and drive it off, then use the torch to heat the new one up( or the wifes oven) and it should drop on no hammer needed. i belive the fairmont clutch will work but you will still need to source a through out bearing to match your year bell. The fairmont uses a cable clutch and diffrent fork setup.
 
Well thanks for the reply, I just looked on National Parts Depot and they are out of stock for the 136th tooth ring gear. I will call them and see if I can get one, I might just have to buy the whole ring gear flywheel set which is roughly about $250 ....get them while you can.
 
The ring gear should be available at just about any auto parts store like NAPA, Rock Auto, ect. (y) :nod:
 
Anyone change over to a wire clutch conversion kit? The fork is a push not a pull. Although NPD shows a MDL 65 to 66 clutch wire conversion, it doesnt make sense, do I have to get a new clutch fork?

I purchased,.. I believe the last new 136 tooth flywheel on Earth, hahaha. Napa, autozone, rileys, NPD, Harris mustang and so on do not have the 136 tooth.

I'm about to put it all together. I purchased a clutch plate and pressure plate from AutoZone for a 78 Fairmont 3.3 L, seems to fit. A 1984 4 cylinder turbo Mustang also has a 9-inch clutch that seemed to fit also. Having issues finding a good throwout bearing that works.. Any suggestions?..

So, has anybody installed a wire clutch conversion kit, or do I have to put the whole Z Bar system in? Thanks for ur help.
 
Mach1Mark":2y5ng0zg said:
Anyone change over to a wire clutch conversion kit? The fork is a push not a pull. Although NPD shows a MDL 65 to 66 clutch wire conversion, it doesnt make sense, do I have to get a new clutch fork?

I purchased,.. I believe the last new 136 tooth flywheel on Earth, hahaha. Napa, autozone, rileys, NPD, Harris mustang and so on do not have the 136 tooth.

I'm about to put it all together. I purchased a clutch plate and pressure plate from AutoZone for a 78 Fairmont 3.3 L, seems to fit. A 1984 4 cylinder turbo Mustang also has a 9-inch clutch that seemed to fit also. Having issues finding a good throwout bearing that works.. Any suggestions?..

So, has anybody installed a wire clutch conversion kit, or do I have to put the whole Z Bar system in? Thanks for ur help.
Click to expand...

I though you were looking into the Mustang Steve cable clutch conversion? It's about the best one made as it follows the Enginering of the Ford cable clutch design. Since a cable pulls the arm instead of pushing it like a Z Bar system depending on the throwout bearing arm you have it might be able to be used as is or moded some. You could go with the Z Bar system or the Cable clutch the advantage of the cable is an much easier pedal operation / feel, and if you don't happen to have all the Z Bar parts now it may be cheaper then trying to find and buy them.

Mustang Steve cable kit

https://www.mustangsteve.com/product/clutch-cable-ck165

Mustang Steve cable kit with the brake pedal

https://www.mustangsteve.com/product/clutch-cable-pedal-ck165-p

Here's an article showing install of a cable clutch kit (different kit) that might give you a few ideas too, see link.

http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/drivetrain/mufp-0506-cable-clutch-conversion-kit/

The Mustang Steve roller clutch pedal bearing kit is a worth while upgrade for both the brake and clutch pedals to make them work much easier too (less friction), see link for more info.

https://fordsix.com/viewtopic.php?t=60389
 
Called MDL and asked them about their wire clutch conversion kit and apparently it does not work for the push style Fork. Although it clearly states it's for a 66-65. That's confusing,.. so if anybody has any ideas please help...does the factory zbar work for the clutch and pressure plate that I have purchased? I assume it does. :banghead:
 
Thanks Bubba, I forgot about Steve's mustang. I'll check it. I might reverse engineer a lockar cable to pull from the back.
 
clutch plate and pressure plate from AutoZone for a 78 Fairmont 3.3 L, seems to fit. .. Having issues finding a good throwout bearing that works.. Any suggestions?.. <> ...does the factory zbar work for the clutch and pressure plate that I have purchased? I assume it does.


Fairmont Diaphragm clutch is a good choice, needs an earlier Throwout Bearing from almost any earlier application '3 Finger / long-frame' pressure plate clutch with Z-Bar bell should work with Z-Bar/Push TO arm. (Maverick, Comet, Stang etc...)



Factory Z-Bar Pushrod setup should work with any 170/200 Toploader tranny bellhouse with adapter plate or with the 250 engine, a V8 T5 cable clutch bellhouse modified to use earlier push TO arm.

. . .

V8 T5 bell:
. .

have fun
 
Thanks,... this has become fun, it's a challenge to take an automatic car with inline 6 and turn it to a 5speed t5.
 
Yes swapping from an Auto to Stick is harder than going from a Stick to Auto, requires finding lots of items. :banghead: Well you should be in for even more fun and better performance once you get it installed. (y) :nod:
 
Well another little surprise. I pulled the "flex plate" for the C4 off my engine and found a little washer spacer behind the flexplate. It's about 3 1/2 inch in diameter...It bolts directly between between the crank and "flexplate " for the C4 auto.. So do I need to reinstall the washer spacer between my 3speed flywheel and the crank? I guess I will have to get a 3speed spacer plate that fits the 2 bolt starter and the 136 tooth 9inch clutch assembly. But what about this 3 1/2 inch spacer, washer thing? Again thanks for ur help!
 
:eek:opsie: :shock: That washer ring was installed wrong it doesn't go between the crankshaft flange and the flex plate! This would not give the starter drive gear it's full ring gear engagement. The tin block spacer plate is first installed against the block. Next the flex plate is suppose to be installed against the crankshaft flange, then the washer ring on top of the Flex plate before the chankshaft bolts are torqued down. The washer ring is only for extra support of the flex plates center.

The washer ring is only used with an Automatic Flex plate, it's not used or needed for the 3 speed stick flywheel. Also note that the Auto trans flex plate uses shorter crankshaft mounting bolts that are about 5/8 to 3/4 inch long. The stick flywheel uses longer chankshaft mounting bolts that are about 7/8 inch to 1 inch long. Correct install is first to put the larger 3 speed (9 inch type) stick block tin plate on the correct block alinement dowls. Next the chankshaft pilot bushing needs to be installed. The flywheel is mounted against the chankshaft flange and torqued down to the correct spec. Then the clutch unit can be installed. Good luck (y) :nod:
 
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