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200 alt to 3g conversion bracket arm question

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Soledad
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200 alt to 3g conversion bracket arm question

Post #1 by Soledad » Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:08 pm

Howdy all,

Just joined the site and have my first question.

I picked up a '66-'67 Falcon a few months ago but am just now starting to work on it. It's in bad shape but it's a work of love.

It has the 200ci engine in it. I bought a 3g alternator to convert it (had an old 1g alt in it) but recently figured out that I purchased a large case 3g. The problem is that the upper arm is too short and causes the case of the 3g to contact the bolt closest to the timing cover on the bottom bracket. Because of this there is no way to adjust the belt tightness. I really don't want to grind anything down to make it fit.

The return window has passed on this 3G as well as the Painless wiring kit I have so I'd really like to make this work.

After doing some digging I suspect the upper mounting arm may actually be for a "generator" and not an alternator. The part number on this arm/bracket is C5TE10145B. It measures 6" tip to tip. The slot in the arm is completely straight and has no curve to it at all. If this is a generator mounting arm, then what is the correct one to use? I found PN C8DE10145A that looks to be maybe an inch longer and has more curve to the slot that might work but not sure. If that's not the correct one to use, then can I use a lower mounting arm off of a 289/302/351?

Just three more items to finish and I can finally start this thing. (Alternator mounting, rebuild the carb, install and plumb the gas tank)

Thanks!
1966/1967 Ford Falcon Futura || 200ci || No AC || 2.83:1gears || All stock, not running and needs a LOT of TLC

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bubba22349
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Re: 200 alt to 3g conversion bracket arm question

Post #2 by bubba22349 » Fri Feb 28, 2020 5:56 pm

Having a C5TE indicates the part was first designed for a 1965 truck engine, however a part like that may have many other applications. There were no Ford Falcon cars or Ranchero pickups that used a Generator after 1964, so your 1965 adjustor arm would have been used for an Alternator. Yes you might be able to use an adjusting arm off many other engines that will fit or might only need some minor tweaks to be able to work. To get an idea what it needs in lenght and curvature mount the alternator on the pivot bracket with the correct fan belt (snug) that you plan to use then measure what the adjusting arms lenght needs to be adding another inch to inch and haft for the adjusting slot. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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chad
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200 alt to 3g conversion bracket arm question

Post #3 by chad » Fri Feb 28, 2020 6:33 pm

have U 'clicked around' on the net to C 1 (pic of same motor) so as to copy?
So few in the shop I do this for ideas. Mont on other side is how I did it on a motor conversion...
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), '69 250ci, NV 3550 & DSII, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

Soledad
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Re: 200 alt to 3g conversion bracket arm question

Post #4 by Soledad » Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:09 pm

Thanks for the help gents. I definitely appreciate it.

I've been clicking around the interwebs for the past few days looking at pics and digging for part numbers but I only found one site that actually showed the two arms side by side and from that is how I came up with the C8DE-10145A part number. I was hoping to be able to order one just because of my work schedule however it's probably going to best to head to a local yard and rummage around for one. I think an extra inch or two on the length of the arm will be what I need.
1966/1967 Ford Falcon Futura || 200ci || No AC || 2.83:1gears || All stock, not running and needs a LOT of TLC

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chad
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3g conversion bracket sourcing

Post #5 by chad » Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:46 pm

Soledad wrote: C8DE-10145A part number

ya done G R E A T if ya gota prt# (more'n I often do). Even beddah if junk yrds near by (every
-thing older than 10 yrs has gone to the crusher round here). Let me know later. Not sure but
may lend a hand...reply when done 2 addys in my below sig...
:thumbup:
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), '69 250ci, NV 3550 & DSII, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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JackFish
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Re: 200 alt to 3g conversion bracket arm question

Post #6 by JackFish » Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:02 pm

Something off a Fairmont/Zephyr might work.

Non AC might be hard to find.
1978 Ford Fairmont station wagon
1978 Ford Fairmont station wagon
Yup, I bought another one.
1996 Chevy Caprice 9C1 (3)
1999 Dodge Ram 2500

Soledad
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Re: 200 alt to 3g conversion bracket arm question

Post #7 by Soledad » Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:43 am

Thanks JackFish. I'm still waiting for the bracket to come in that I ordered. If it doesn't fit then the yards should be dry enough to go digging around for one.
1966/1967 Ford Falcon Futura || 200ci || No AC || 2.83:1gears || All stock, not running and needs a LOT of TLC

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JackFish
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Re: 200 alt to 3g conversion bracket arm question

Post #8 by JackFish » Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:10 am

1978 Ford Fairmont station wagon
1978 Ford Fairmont station wagon
Yup, I bought another one.
1996 Chevy Caprice 9C1 (3)
1999 Dodge Ram 2500

Soledad
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Re: 200 alt to 3g conversion bracket arm question

Post #9 by Soledad » Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:22 pm

The bracket I ordered does not fit, so, it looks like I'm hitting the yards this Sunday and Monday.
1966/1967 Ford Falcon Futura || 200ci || No AC || 2.83:1gears || All stock, not running and needs a LOT of TLC

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chad
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200 alt to 3g conversion bracket question

Post #10 by chad » Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:43 pm

show us what ya got, there have been enuff work-a-rounds on this site to assist.
Lo, hi, driver's, pass' side, serpintine belt conversions, large body, sm, etc...
C'mon...sompin ta go on here...
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), '69 250ci, NV 3550 & DSII, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

Soledad
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Re: 200 alt to 3g conversion bracket arm question

Post #11 by Soledad » Sat Mar 07, 2020 12:33 pm

Well I was going to attach some pics but I think I don't have a high enough post count yet to be able to do that.
I used to have photobucket but gave that up. Not sure where to post pics online now for free.
1966/1967 Ford Falcon Futura || 200ci || No AC || 2.83:1gears || All stock, not running and needs a LOT of TLC

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chad
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200 alt to 3g conversion bracket arm question

Post #12 by chad » Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:26 pm

bubs dun gived us dis:

viewtopic.php?f=47&t=48863

No luck?
Shucks, that's best for this, um...er...ah, used the Search function?
(I can't suggest a topic heading tho)
:hmmm:
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), '69 250ci, NV 3550 & DSII, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

Soledad
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Re: 200 alt to 3g conversion bracket arm question

Post #13 by Soledad » Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:30 pm

Ok, let's see if these work.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x7 ... hNIiqG.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x7 ... bNJquZ.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x7 ... EMPE20.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x7 ... QAfAvY.jpg

In the pics with the alternator, the alt is as far right as it can go since it is hitting the bracket bolt in the block and it cannot move left due to the length of the top bracket.
1966/1967 Ford Falcon Futura || 200ci || No AC || 2.83:1gears || All stock, not running and needs a LOT of TLC

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Re: 200 alt to 3g conversion bracket arm question

Post #14 by Econoline » Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:54 pm

I think you need to modify the bottom bracket or make a new one that raises the alternator up into the hollow of the block a bit more and above the bracket boss. Then that top bracket may work, but it does look a bit short.
It ain't gonna fix itself

Soledad
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Re: 200 alt to 3g conversion bracket arm question

Post #15 by Soledad » Sun Mar 08, 2020 1:12 pm

Yeah, I had given that some consideration but it's just a lot more work than I want to do for the moment. All of the yards are closed today so I'm going to hit a local U-Pull It tomorrow. They have a huge Ford section so I'm really hoping they'll have something.
1966/1967 Ford Falcon Futura || 200ci || No AC || 2.83:1gears || All stock, not running and needs a LOT of TLC

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Re: 200 alt to 3g conversion bracket arm question

Post #16 by bubba22349 » Sun Mar 08, 2020 1:25 pm

How's the alternator pulley centerline alinement with the water pump pulley? :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

Soledad
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Re: 200 alt to 3g conversion bracket arm question

Post #17 by Soledad » Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:06 pm

Although the belt is too short, if I pull it tight with my hand it "appears" to be pretty center.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x7 ... wjIUSF.jpg

I do have a concern about the pulley being so close to the alt. Although it does not rub when I spin it, I measured it and it's .009" from the alt case to the pulley.
1966/1967 Ford Falcon Futura || 200ci || No AC || 2.83:1gears || All stock, not running and needs a LOT of TLC

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200 alt to 3g conversion bracket arm question

Post #18 by chad » Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:35 pm

wish U didn't havea hand there, where's it sit "naturally"?
That's how we live (10th of inches). Just so there's no rub on bumps etc. Shims wrk too.

The frnt dress is tough in conversions:

https://www.tomsbroncoparts.com/product ... racket-kit

top driver's side placement, the middle bracket goes thru the 2 hi driver's side bolt holes at frnt of motor (lift eye mount).
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), '69 250ci, NV 3550 & DSII, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: 200 alt to 3g conversion bracket arm question

Post #19 by bubba22349 » Sun Mar 08, 2020 5:12 pm

The pulley Centerlines look good, yeah .009 is close. Is pulley tight on the alternator? Might need to install a washer as a spacer behind the pulley, ask JackFish (see his above post) I think he used a shim washer on his as a spacer. :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: 200 alt to 3g conversion bracket arm question

Post #20 by Soledad » Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:02 am

I had tried to let the belt lay naturally but because it's so short and won't fit around the crank pulley it just leans to the side a little and doesn't look right.

Yeah, I had zipped the pulley tight to the alt just before I took that pic. I also have the flat washer from the old pulley that I was using as a spacer but it pushes the pulley out just a little to far for my liking. If I had a washer half the thickness of that one it would be just about perfect. I may hit up Ace or HD to see what washers they have available.
1966/1967 Ford Falcon Futura || 200ci || No AC || 2.83:1gears || All stock, not running and needs a LOT of TLC

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Re: 200 alt to 3g conversion bracket arm question

Post #21 by chad » Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:37 am

"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), '69 250ci, NV 3550 & DSII, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

Soledad
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Re: 200 alt to 3g conversion bracket arm question

Post #22 by Soledad » Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:39 pm

Well, I officially gave up. I hit three yards today and came up empty with anything that would work. One yard only had newer models and imports. Nothing even close to working. I waited in line for almost 30 minutes at the second yard and just gave up before I could even look around. And the third yard was soupy muddy and wanted $40 for a bracket which I think is just too much for a simple bracket.

So, on my way home I hit the local auto parts store and picked up a reman alt and new voltage regulator. For now I just really want to get this thing running and moving. Later on I'll revisit converting it over to the large case 3G.

Thanks everyone for your help. I really do appreciate it.
1966/1967 Ford Falcon Futura || 200ci || No AC || 2.83:1gears || All stock, not running and needs a LOT of TLC

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chad
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200 alt to 3g conversion bracket arm question

Post #23 by chad » Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:39 pm

think ur 'set' on the small case?
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), '69 250ci, NV 3550 & DSII, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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Re: 200 alt to 3g conversion bracket arm question

Post #24 by Georgia200 » Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:55 am

Next time you are in the yard look at a bracket off a FE. They are longer.

Also, isnt the bottom bracket held on with two bolts? You could put 1" spacers on there and push the case out

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Re: 200 alt to 3g conversion bracket arm question

Post #25 by Soledad » Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:54 am

Yeah, small case would have definitely not been an issue. The reman alt went in super easy yesterday.

The problem with the large case is that it hits the bolt heads on that bottom bracket and so even 1" spacers between the block and bracket probably wouldn't have worked. I would have needed to extend the pivot points on the bottom bracket out another inch or two. I think the key here is going to be a longer upper bracket off an FE engine. And, now that I think about it I know someone who has an old FE 360/390 rusting away in a field that might still have that upper alt bracket on it. Hmmmm. 8)

Anyway, got it fired up yesterday but got more issues that I'll deal with in another post/thread. (Doesn't want to idle, dies on tip in and has a misfire.)
1966/1967 Ford Falcon Futura || 200ci || No AC || 2.83:1gears || All stock, not running and needs a LOT of TLC

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alt bracket (2 piece) FE motor

Post #26 by chad » Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:10 am

Scott-Drake: C5 ZZ 10145/51BK; $16
"Big thing is only make one change at a time. Change 2 or more things at a time it becomes difficult to figure which change helped or hurt" turbo2256b » 1/16/2017
Chad - '70 LUEB on '77 frame (i.e. PS, D44, trapezoidal BB 9", 4.11), '69 250ci, NV 3550 & DSII, "T" D20/PTO, 2" SL, 1" BL, 4 discs, 33"X15", tool boxes, etc. Seeking: Hydraulic gear motor for Koenig pto. chrlsful@aol.com (413) 259-1749

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