MSD Pro Billet-style distributor for use with EFI?

gus91326

Well-known member
Supporter 2018
Guys:
Hope you all are handling lockdown well....I'm working on amassing the parts for my next upgrade on my 200, which is adding a turbo and ignition control via a Fitech boost capable setup. One of the hurdles I have is the ignition system. I currently have one of Bill's HEI distributor (which has worked great) but need to move to a pro-billet 2 wire distributor for full ignition control by the ecu. As far as I know, no one makes one of these distributors for the 200.

Now, looking at the MSD website, they DO have one for the Jeep I6.....It got me thinking.....could I buy that, hack off the top of that distributor, and weld it to the shaft housing of the HEI that I have (it's also billet). I assume that I can machine the shaft for length and acceptance of the 200 dizzy gear, I think this would work. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
 
They also make one for the Chevy inline 6 also. I would modify the MSD guts to fit into the stock 200 housing. Trying to hack and weld could be questionable,while just doing some shaft shortening(assuming the Jeep one is longer), will be more of an acceptable mod. I've even thought about making some billet distributor housings and transplanting some MSD components into them for these engines myself, just didn't if there would be any demand or market for them.
 
Which Fitech unit are you looking at?

You can use the signal from the magnetic pickup in the HEI distributor to trigger the FiTech unit and use an MSD 6A to power the HEI coil.
The HEI module and condenser are removed.
MSD makes a cable PN 8861 to connect to the magnetic pickup.

The violet and green wires from the FiTech unit go to the magnetic pickup in the distributor and the black wire from the FiTech unit triggers the MSD ignition box by connecting it to the MSD white wire.

Page 14 on the MSD installation instructions shows how to connect the MSD to the HEI coil.
 
I know the HEI produces a dirty signal if you have a Holley Sniper & is not recommended.
Is the Fitech compatible with a HEI??
 
wsa111":1b9nhmbr said:
I know the HEI produces a dirty signal if you have a Holley Sniper & is not recommended.
Is the Fitech compatible with a HEI??

The only part being used in the HEI distributor is the mag pickup.
With the MSD PN 8861 cable or the Painless part#8861 cable the HEI distributor is converted to a 2 wire unit.

The module and condenser are removed. So why would the HEI magnetic pickup produce a dirty signal?

FiTech does not recommend using the HEI distributor with timing control because it requires custom wiring, not because it's not possible or won't work.
http://new.fitechefi.com/faq/if-i-have- ... l-feature/
 
pmuller9":2mbg8t3i said:
Which Fitech unit are you looking at?

You can use the signal from the magnetic pickup in the HEI distributor to trigger the FiTech unit and use an MSD 6A to power the HEI coil.
The HEI module and condenser are removed.
MSD makes a cable PN 8861 to connect to the magnetic pickup.

The violet and green wires from the FiTech unit go to the magnetic pickup in the distributor and the black wire from the FiTech unit triggers the MSD ignition box by connecting it to the MSD white wire.

Page 14 on the MSD installation instructions shows how to connect the MSD to the HEI coil.

Paul: I picked up Fitech 30004- for my setup, I'm hoping this works. Modding the HEI and adding an MSD box seems to be the best way forward- appreciate the input!

Bill: Your HEI has been in use with my current Fitech (Go400) for a couple of years now with no issues. Some folks have complained about interference; I ended up twisting the tach signal wires (one is Fitech and the other to my gauge) and make sure I had good grounds everywhere. I never had an issue.
 
To get a clean signal, any prox sensor or Hall Effect system will require a uniform iron magnetic signal for each magnet. Inductance spoils the signal.

Back in 1980-1984, Ford did all that TFi stuff with ECA Crank Position Sensor C1963, 3 years ahead of its advent on the 2.3 Turbo EFi and YFA equiped Ford 2.3's.

In the early Ford literature, It explains how it allows the Duraspark and its variable reluctor system to operate as a TFi.

It does not show it, except on a few later TSB's, page 29-1 of one 1980-1985 Bronco and F truck book.

The Hall Effect sensor is external, early ones, for the first 3 months, IIRC, by the crank by the starter, but later ones by the CPS at the front passenger side.

For the big V8's in F trucks, plenty of guys ripped out the Feedback carb or the EFi units in Panthers, and they ran fine with the ECA still hooked up, and killer 4-bbl carb. It was the Carb, Thermactor, EGR, and Igntion control all in one.

Untill it lost signal via a triped fault code. But it was hands off, simple, and Ford got it working right since Job One.

Any time your really stuck, try the SU213 Duralast sensor replacement, used on the CA market 351M's and EECIII 5.0 CFi's from 81-84.

for a six, you have to make a three point iron ninja throwing star and plant it on the lower crank pulley.

search.php?keywords=prox+sensor+

xctasy":2drd02e9 said:
Ford aced this, but it is very difficult to get a clear view of exactly how smartly they did it, because Ford had Push Start modules, IDM control, and a very strange roll out of speed density MAP systems, with constant, bank fire and sequential and MAF systems, as well as the VAM unit on the 2.3 Turbo EFi's. Ford chopped and changed the ignition systems to suit the power-train requirements. 5 speeds, trucks, and 4 stage autos, turbos, superchargers, 4, 6 or 8 cylinders, they all had different requirements





Dual synch distributors where what Ford was planning back in 1980, and pmuller9 described it back in one of his many concise and well chosen word posts on Ford Thick Film ignition systems for use with EEC IV.



For the High Output Central Fuel Injection and Port EFi 5.0's, they had single synchron. The Port EFi...only those, they had "Dual Sychro" Hall Effect reluctors with the eighth reluctor PIP cut to allow the electronic signal both ignition spark, and to sequence Sequential Injection for 1986. The 1984.5-1985 Auto 5.0 HO with the CFi Fuel Injection system had a downgraded TFi, and so did the bank fire trucks with 5.0 or 5.8 Port EFi.





Ford devised a special kind of system before the 1983 era dual sych TFi ignition found in the 2.3 EFi Turbo, and then everything else new with the EECIV from 1984 to 1995.





No electronic spark control was used with a Hall effect sensor except on the V8's. The in line sixes and V6's all missed out on the very advanced Duraspark III system. The feedback carb sixes and V6'S used stock Duraspark II or later TFi.....they skiped very good intermediate system, the 1980-1985 Brown Box Duraspark III.



Fords DSIII used a v8 only, external Hall effect sensor system, found on

Windsor 4.2(early)/5.0/5.8

351M (81-82)

and some 400's (1979-80 or maybee).





The brown box control unit works in a similar way to the grey cap TFi.



Ford had to contend with car like emissions for CA, and a harder Fed test on the 49 state and CA F truck and E vans,



They were forced to run either

EECII Central Fuel injection (L-M passanger cars, CA, 1980-1984, EECIII),

2-bbl carbs of 7200 Variable Venturi (various)

2150 Motorcrafts with feedback idle control on some 1980 to 1985 cars/trucks.

The later EFi 460's ran the secondary Crank Position sensor as well



Rather than use the later TFi, you can use the stock Duraspark, and control the spark with an early 1980 to 1985 Crank Position sensor with 3 prongs instead of four. The truck and passenger stuff was indexed around a 6-1/2" Crank Position Sensor with four prongs and a C1963 control system found under Duralast SU213.





SU213_EEC3_DS111.jpg




All the Holley guys who have been trying to invoke brain dead 4-bbl throttle body EFi have been scratching there heads to understand how the early Hall effect works.



null_zpsa3471408_96-bronco-conversion-efi-466-maf-obd-ii-e4od-.jpg




null_zpsc87c2d98_96-bronco-conversion-efi-466-maf-obd-ii-e4od-.jpg








Ford made 2-bbl CFi systems work, but the TFI ignition systems were piloted with the four to five years of Duraspark III/ EECIII engines, and Fords literature was very poorly concocted... so much wrong stuff.





Like this....this is an EECIII system with EECIV lables, so whatchout for Miss Information...





esqford5812.jpg




if you want EFi, and want to use semi or fully sequential EFi, Duraspark I, or II can do it it you lock the advance system.



See svocapri's 15 Step method, and http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread. ... istributor



or the wire it shut method of the Care of the less advanced rangerstation.com





https://therangerstation.com/tech_libra ... swap.shtml
 
Why run a DUI or a HEI with a coil on top not being used.
Run a DS11 with the advance locked out & also get a clean signal.
Second not having over oiling problems & or under oiling problems which the HEI has over oiling & the new DUI has a major shaft under oiling problem.
However i can fix either condition.
 
wsa111":2q15ggaf said:
Why run a DUI or a HEI with a coil on top not being used.
Run a DS11 with the advance locked out & also get a clean signal.
Second not having over oiling problems & or under oiling problems which the HEI has over oiling & the new DUI has a major shaft under oiling problem.
However i can fix either condition.
The HEI coil on top is being used and the HEI distributor is one of yours so I would expect that all problems would have been addressed.

A CDI is more compatible with the HEI coil ("E" core) than with an "I" core coil. It's a good match.

The noisy signal is created by the switching action of the module on the coil primary.
A condenser is connected to suppress noise generated on the 12 volt line.
In this application the module and condenser are removed so the trigger signal should be clean.
 
wsa111":12wenyor said:
Why run a DUI or a HEI with a coil on top not being used.
Run a DS11 with the advance locked out & also get a clean signal.
Second not having over oiling problems & or under oiling problems which the HEI has over oiling & the new DUI has a major shaft under oiling problem.
However i can fix either condition.

+1 and use a TFI coil with a mount from an EFI 300
 
I reread it, see above. I don't understand people need to install these HEI units when they already have the best magnetic pickup distributor system ever made. Pair it with a TFI.
 
I agree.
However the OP already has the HEI distributor that was reworked by Bill and has been using it for some time.
 
People have successfully used DSII distributors w/timing control for the Sniper system at least, and probably Fitech as well. I have read that if you use, at with holley, the holley coil driver you have to use a coil with more resistance or you'll over run the drivers abilities. But w/ a CD box that shouldn't be a problem. Of course you have to manually correct the phasing one way or another.
 
pmuller9":jyrgcr5n said:
I agree.
However the OP already has the HEI distributor that was reworked by Bill and has been using it for some time.

I get that. But I'm thinking if the coil is on top of the dist, that can't help with the EMI/RF issues.

Maybe it's a good reason to get a DSII and lock that out/phase it instead of the HEI he has? That way he has the custom HEI unit to fall back on.
 
Econoline":1vje0ptr said:
I get that. But I'm thinking if the coil is on top of the dist, that can't help with the EMI/RF issues.

Maybe it's a good reason to get a DSII and lock that out/phase it instead of the HEI he has? That way he has the custom HEI unit to fall back on.
The MSD discharges a cap across the primary coil resulting in a sine wave (half wave because MSD clamps the positive part of the cycle) and should result in less RFI/EMI than having the HEI module suddenly interrupting primary current flow creating odd order harmonics.

The vacuum advance plate on either the HEI or DSII can be used to phase the rotor.

All good points.
 
I appreciate the feedback- I'm not married to the HEI- I'm looking for a solution that would work with the Fitech unit. If the DSII with the TFI would work, I'm happy to run that as well. As a matter of fact, if it means I don't have to do brain surgery on the HEI, that's a plus (as someone said, I can keep it as a backup in case future plans change).
 
Be religious about your wiring as it pertains to interference. Make a twisted pair for the pickup cable and keep all signal wires as far as practical away from ignition and power leads. A 16/2 shielded twisted pair off the pick up wouldn't be a bad idea. Ground the shield only at the distributor or only at one end.
 
gus91326":shk368wx said:
If the DSII with the TFI would work, I'm happy to run that as well.
The MSD TFI coil has dozens of review complaining about early failures.
It appears that even a used Ford TFI coil gives better service.
 
pmuller9":27b3poh5 said:
gus91326":27b3poh5 said:
If the DSII with the TFI would work, I'm happy to run that as well.
The MSD TFI coil has dozens of review complaining about early failures.
It appears that even a used Ford TFI coil gives better service.

Looks like factory Ford is where it's at! Thanks, Paul!
 
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