Engine/Head Health

6

65_Stang_170

Well-known member
Howdy!

I posted a few days ago about coolant in my 3/4 exhaust port, and it was suggested that I might have a crack in the head. First a question:

-Is there any way for me to identify the trouble area without getting it magnafluxed? There was a pretty good amount of coolant that came out, and I didn't have it running much with the muffler attached. I can hear the liquid sloshing in the muffler. I feel like that would be a pretty big leak, right?

Second, I disassembled today, and thought I would try and get some group knowledge about how the cylinders look. The rockers/push rods looked great at first glance; plenty of oil under the valve cover. Pictures:



















I'm leaning towards grabbing a 200 (if I find a reasonably priced/available unit), but this one's already installed... ;)

Thanks in advance!
-Shawn
 
many pull the dip stick, ck the exhaust as 1st look see. The stick wil look milky (coolant/oil), the exhaust white (steam) smoke like. U will not C it in the cylinders its too hot in there. The head? may B Ilike the dip stick but not so easy cus it can sit in the cranckase for ya.
Now U can save some $ (avoid magnaflux) if U C some warpage in the head/block. Run a known straight edge, look 4 light. Really ck the crack at 3/4 exh like Seth said. That's our experience...save the magna. till other items R ruled out & U must resort to it as a last measure...keep talkin (& lookin esp in water jacket areas, @ the water path)
:nod:
 
Now that the head is off and the exhaust valves are closed, stand the head port side up and fill exhaust ports 3 and 4 with water and see if the water goes back into the water jacket.
 
chad":2mty472n said:
many pull the dip stick, ck the exhaust as 1st look see. The stick wil look milky (coolant/oil), the exhaust white (steam) smoke like. U will not C it in the cylinders its too hot in there. The head? may B Ilike the dip stick but not so easy cus it can sit in the cranckase for ya.
Now U can save some $ (avoid magnaflux) if U C some warpage in the head/block. Run a known straight edge, look 4 light. Really ck the crack at 3/4 exh like Seth said. That's our experience...save the magna. till other items R ruled out & U must resort to it as a last measure...keep talkin (& lookin esp in water jacket areas, @ the water path)
:nod:
Click to expand...

Chad, I checked the dipstick and oil looks normal (a bit dirty because it hasn't been changed in a bit...), but no discoloration/milky look. It smoked for a little bit right after I got done putting the new water pump bolts in or when I installed the HEI... It did not continue though, but maybe that's because the engine warmed up? I took a straight edge to the head/block, and did not see evidence of a warp.

I'll try and clean the head up to look for a crack in the 3/4 exh... What should I be looking for in the water jacket?
 
pmuller9":3q3vetno said:
Now that the head is off and the exhaust valves are closed, stand the head port side up and fill exhaust ports 3 and 4 with water and see if the water goes back into the water jacket.
Click to expand...

Ok, I'll give this a try. Thank you.
 
:beer: Cylinders all look real decent still. My best guess from past experience is you find all the problems located in the head :banghead: . Only a few ways to check for cracks in heads magnaflux, pressure test, the coolant system tester that I mentioned before in your other post, or as pmuller said above. Good luck (y) :nod:
 
bubba22349":1gcz9l6p said:
:beer: Cylinders all look real decent still. My best guess from past experience is you find all the problems located in the head :banghead: . Only a few ways to check for cracks in heads magnaflux, pressure test, the coolant system tester that I mentioned before in your other post, or as pmuller said above. Good luck (y) :nod:
Click to expand...

Thanks for the thumbs up on the cylinders. I thought so, but I really don't know what I'm looking at... How would I go about a pressure test? I did the pmuller test:



Water doesn't appear to be moving anywhere in any of the exhaust ports (I did all of them because why not?)... Also, there wasn't a change in level of coolant in my radiator. If I was losing coolant in the head/block and out the exhaust, does this mean that it wasn't cycling through the radiator? Too high of or a stuck thermostat?
 
Stuck T Stat is possable when you pulled the head was there any coolant left in the block? Coolant leaks going into exhaust are harder to see because it's not going into the cylinders and it won't show up as any pressure in the radiator kicking coolant out on the ground or in the recovery tank like you would have with a blown head gasket or a crack in the heads combustion chamber.

If the head was still bolted onto the block you could use a radator pressure tester. Or cap off the both radiator hoses and one of the heater hoses and then hook up a garden hose to one of the heater hose fittings. With the head off you would need to bolt on some flat plates to seal off all the coolant passage opening, a bigger project when head is off. Best of luck :nod:
 
bubba22349":1f729sfn said:
Stuck T Stat is possable when you pulled the head was there any coolant left in the block? Coolant leaks going into exhaust are harder to see because it's not going into the cylinders and it won't show up as any pressure in the radiator kicking coolant out on the ground or in the recovery tank like you would have with a blown head gasket or a crack in the heads combustion chamber.

If the head was still bolted onto the block you could use a radator pressure tester. Or cap off the both radiator hoses and one of the heater hoses and then hook up a garden hose to one of the heater hose fittings. With the head off you would need to bolt on some flat plates to seal off all the coolant passage opening, a bigger project when head is off. Best of luck :nod:
Click to expand...

I guess I jumped the gun a bit on pulling the head... :oops: there was/is still coolant in the block. I'm not quite sure how to drain it completely, but at this point I don't need it fully drained.
 
its OK, let's still try;n figure it out...
",,,there was/is still - coolant in the block,,,"
where is/wuz that, did U dump it in at dissasembly or wuz it forced in
on its way to the muffler or where ever U saw it in the exh system?
 
The T Stat probably isn't stuck then. In the one picture the head gasket looks like it isn't damaged yet so you could bolt and torque the head back down to test it with garden hose water pressure. You don't need to install any other parts like rocker arms, push rods, carb, ect. Good luck (y) :nod:
 
chad":2gc57smw said:
its OK, let's still try;n figure it out...
",,,there was/is still - coolant in the block,,,"
where is/wuz that, did U dump it in at dissasembly or wuz it forced in
on its way to the muffler or where ever U saw it in the exh system?
Click to expand...

Chad, I meant that there is some coolant in the water jacket of the block still, and that when I tried to drain the system before disassembly, I couldn't get it all out.
 
Prestone and others made kits for flushing cooling the systems with a garden hose or you can get some fittings to adapt at hardware stores too. :nod:
 
bubba22349":ncgbwi4y said:
The T Stat probably isn't stuck then. In the one picture the head gasket looks like it isn't damaged yet so you could bolt and torque the head back down to test it with garden hose water pressure. You don't need to install any other parts like rocker arms, push rods, carb, ect. Good luck (y) :nod:

Prestone and other made kits for flushing cooling systems with a garden hose or you can get fitting at hardware stores :nod: .
Click to expand...

Ok, thanks bubba. I'll see if I get time to try that tomorrow. I did break a bolt in the block, so I'm assuming I'll have to get that out first. I have some head bolts from the 250 in my garage. Will that work as a stand in for the broken bolt?
 
Yes it should all small six'es heads are same heights and (later 200 and 250 mid 1970' s up heads are identical) match the length with yours. :nod:
 
ok, then. no help there
 
If you have a good 250 head you could use that on your 170 with lots of milling, back in the day the hot ticket for 170 and 200's was the late 170 head like a 1972.

And if you wanted that compleate 250 could be swapped in with some hard work would make a nice combo in your mustang but you would need a different trans to go with it. Good luck (y) :nod:
 
bubba22349":2xqk4f0z said:
If you have a good 250 head you could use that on your 170 with lots of milling, back in the day the hot ticket for 170 and 200's was the late 170 head like a 1972.

And if you wanted that compleate 250 could be swapped in with some hard work would make a nice combo in your mustang but you would need a different trans to go with it. Good luck (y) :nod:
Click to expand...

I have/had a good 250 head, but I chopped it up for a 2v conversion. It needs to go to a machine shop to finish out the work. I need to get my plan together and take it on over.
 
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