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Well it was a long day... lots of loose ends to tie up and I checked everything on the engine twice.

But at 5:15 tonight we fired it up! AND IT SCREAMED!

First let me tell you some of the better stories of the day...

After I finished wiring the engine and checking everything over we backed it out into the driveway... and lost all the rest of the fluid out of the T5... I have collected it all in the same container and I think I am close to empty on the tranny... but the plug was loose and it was more my fault for not checking it out... I was so into the engine I did not notice the fluid leak till it was most of the way down the driveway :shock: oops....

So I put a bucket under there and proceeded with my checklist...

Pulled the plugs and gave the engine about four or five cranks to move some oil and loosen things up as well as get gas into the carb...
I could tell a big difference just in the smooth sound it made during rotation, the balancing on a straight six is worth it's weight in gold...

We put the plugs in and gave it a go and nothing.... :cry:
I did not lose my cool, I started going over everything you guys showed me and I found several things...
The plug wires were in the wrong order... swapped those and got them straight...
and still nothing... just turned over... then we verified spark, Yes we had spark...
on one of the attempts to start the car it backfired through the carb, so I thought I might be 180 degrees out on the dizzy.... (I was pretty sure it was OK, but I could have been wrong...) So I pulled the dizzy up and rotated it 180 degrees... Bam fired right up.

Now, I also listened to the advice of the Ford Rebuild manual and ran fresh water through the radiator while I ran the engine at 2K for 30 minutes... but I have to tell you it would be a good idea to run that out of a hose and to the rear of the car... because the shower that ensued from the fan and the water out of the radiator was spectacular. But it was messy and my nice clean engine got a bath and needs cleaned again. But it did keep the temps down...

Man, those lifters were clanging... I was amazed at how loud they were.. after about five minutes to ten minutes though things started to get quiet, and the rpm's started to climb... all good signs, we had great oil pressure, no leaks, and the break in although a little messy went fine.

Now the trouble starts....

So we shut the car off, drained the water and put in coolant and got the engine in its running state and started the car back up, and it still runs fine at high idle, but when I tried to drop the engine to time the car, when I get below 1000rpms it dies.
it just coughs and sputters out.

I got a timing light on there, and at about 1600 rpms I can dial the timing light back and with the dial back on around 27 degrees I am at 10 degrees BTDC. Not sure if that means much.

Unfortuantely I was too beat to work on the car, I was getting frustrated and I was not thinking clearly.. so I decided it was better for me and the engine to stop right there and come back tomorrow... (although that will be Monday, since tomorrow I am at the Football game all day!! GO FALCONS!)

Here are my thoughts...

My first thought is I am still way off with the timing...
two things to note here... when I pulled the dizzy around 180 degrees I also did two other things, which I usually do not do, I like to work one thing and start, but my battery was getting low...
I was using a tach meter to tell rpms... and I had it hooked to the battery ground and the positive side of the coil, which was wrong I put it on the MSD instead.
I also had bypassed the nuetral start switch but only did one set of the two leads coming off the firewall, so I did both to eliminate electrical as the source of my original problem...
I also have not taken vac readings so I could have a vacume leak somewhere... maybe a port I have forgotten to plug?
I am also using a pressure regulator from Holley... I had to open it all the way up to get things going... and that gauge is not reading any pressure readings at all? I am thinking of taking this out... I have not seen anyone here regulating the fuel pressure down a little to like 5psi... but I thought it might be a good idea... although I am thinking either something is wrong with it or it does not work since I get no readings?




So in short...

The sypmtom, dying at idle, as I drop the rpms... probable causes?

and as for the not starting...
might the tach wiring and/or start switch wiring have caused that?
cause I am wondering if I was right with the dizzy and the coil grounding might have caused the problem? I think the start switch would not even allow the engine to crank?

my first order of business in the morning on Monday is to take vac readings and try to set the timing static again, then run the car and dial things in a little better...


but I am not discouraged, it was fantastic to finally hear the life back in the engine.. and it did run great while it was at high idle, so I am confident this is minor....

Oh yeah, sorry this is so long... but the fun has just begun!

More to come I am sure.....
 
We have had a problem getting the idle slow enough with an OZ 2V (using a Holley 390 four barrel, electric choke, stock ignition, stock cam, headers, T5 transmission). One thing we found was that disconnecting the PCV system and plugging the inlet to the intake manifold allowed the engine to idle at 700 rpm (vs. a minimum of 950 rpm with the PVC system attached).

When we asked the forum about our fast idle problem, most of the feedback centered around 'vacum leak' as the primary reason for the fast idle. So, we removed and reinstalled the intake manifold, and insured that all holes were plugged - no change. We removed the carb and checked the carb to spacer, and spacer to manifold gaskets - no change. Additionally, we workd on the secondary idle circut settings - no effective change.

We monitored intake manifold vacum. Intake manifold vacum reading confirmed that with an attached PVC system intake manifold vacum was quite variable (16 to 20 inches) and idle was rough. With the PVC system disconnected and the inlet plugged, intake mainifold vacum at 750 rpm was a steady 20 inches and the idle was smooth. Not suprisingly, the engine also ran noticably cooler with the slower idle.

The trouble is with the PVC system disconnedted, oil mists (slightly) out of the filler neck and onto the valve cover. Do we have a blow by problem? Don't know. Dispite the misting oil level remains constant.

So we have reconnected the PVC system to keep the engine clean, live with a 1,000 rpm idle, and continue to look for answers. Blowby? Mixture? The spark plugs indicate that the mixture is rich and the jets need to be reduced.

Hope this helps,

Regards, Dave
 
I am currently running with the PCV hooked to the port on the 350 Holley 2300 I am running and have the ports on the intake plugged....

I will try this if my attempts with the timing and tune-up fail...

But even 700 rpms seems high to me for a manual... especially with gas prices. I want to keep it lower than that... minimum 600 at the curb, there has to be a way to get that. My fuel dilvery might be the problem too, I am going to run a single line with a standard filter and see what happens.

However I am running a 264 Schneider cam.. .and 1.65 Rockers...
The engine is real repsonsive... I love the holley already.

My intake is sealed. Tight.. I put that together like a surgeon.
But the carb may have a port buried in there I have not identified... I think there is a full vacume source on these is there not? I am using the rear PCV inlet and the ported source on the choke side of the metering block.
 
Jimbo, that's great to hear that the old girl fired up. I hope its smooth sailing for you as you tweak everything out. I've got enough troubles of my own trying to figure out the loss of compression and the wacky timing situation i'm having.

Good Luck!
 
Jimbo;
Great to hear that you got it going. As far as idle.. I can get mine as low as 400 RPM but there is a noticeable lope at that speed. Going to 700 RPM sure smooths it out and this is with a 260 cam. As far as mileage just think how much of the time you actually spend in idle, probably small percentage of the time and is sure is nice to have a smooth idle.
As far as your small problems, don't sweat it. It takes time to get it all sorted out. You adjust something here, find a leak there, tweak some more and all of a sudden voila! the engine runs nice.
I am using the rear vaccum port for the PCV and the side one for the distributor advance. I think that is all the vaccum ports besides the one on the intake.
What is important is to do it slowly and methodically. Keep up the good work and good luck!
Rick
 
great to hear that the engine is running !! after so much work it is always good to hear the engine is realy running , 8)
btw , al that long respons ore how thing .s are going , it,s good for this forum , i like the stories !
full storys from someone who is realy doing al the things that are possible by himself !! keep up the good work , and after next week [ the internationale mustang meeting in holland ] i got a nice update for the car !! btw did you get my PM ? for sending parts to you , from ebay sellers who wont ship to holland ? i got a few days left for giving him a note for where to send to !!

LinkPhoto

see the imagen below jimbo , this is how i setup the tread , verry easy and verry cheap , not using the molly rod ends ! and everything in right tread , not using left tread ! the cheapesd and stil looking good and adjustible !!
LinkPhoto


brake setup and the other strut setup i did make for abullicer.
 
I have a couple of questions...

The machinist told me he did a cold set on the rockers and that after the lifters fill and seat I should do a hot adjustment... can someone give me some how to on this.. I have the manual and read through it, and as I understand I can put the number one cyl on tdc compression do the sequence roll 120 degrees and continue the sequence until all are finshed... and I am to loosen the nut till I can rotate the rod then tighten till I feel drag and go one more turn? I am digging through for more pointers but some help would be appreciated... and when should I do this? Now? does the engine breakin offer the time needed to let those parts seat?

Thanks


Jimbo
 
Warm the engine up, pull the valve cover off, and adjust each rocker until you can slide the right size feeler gauge between rocker and valve stem, with a slight drag. Good luck. 8)
 
Anyone know what the correct gap is?
I am not sure I have the right information for that?
 
If it's a hydraulic cam, the clearance should be zero, plus about .050" more for lifter preload. Adjust the rockers until you get to zero gap, then ad about 1/4 - 1/2 turn more.

If it's a mechanical cam, the cam sheet should have had a spec, but normally it's in the .014 - .018" range, hot.
 
Jimbo,

What did you do to balance the engine? I have a 200 short block I want to put into my '65 Mustang and was thinking of balancing it first. I'm assuming the rods and pistons weights were matched, but what about the crank? Was the crank spun balanced? Any details would be appreciated.

Tanx
 
Jimbo,

If it is any concelation, it took me almost a week to sort everything out with my car. But I had a counter weight hitting the oil pan, exhaust leak, dead Voltage Regulator, screwed up clutch. You'll get it all sorted out eventually.

Definitely need to re-adjust the valves.

Slade
 
I've changed the name of the post to reflect the new discoveries with my newly reborn Frankestein monster I have here....

What you see below is a 302 V8 with a heavy cam... at least that is what it sounds like with the hood down:
<img src=http://www.image-hosting.net/images/messageboard/jbowhall/DSCN0482.jpg>
<img src=http://www.image-hosting.net/images/messageboard/jbowhall/DSCN0485.jpg>

Today I installed the clutch, throttle linkage, and driveshaft... and played once more with the engine...

1. I drained the oil and pulled the plugs...
Here are what the plugs look like after the 30 minute burn...
<img src=http://www.image-hosting.net/images/messageboard/jbowhall/DSCN0481.jpg>
They were a little fouled, but not too bad... I have seen worse... with the new rings and all the oil and prelube I was expecting this to a degree...
They all look consistant.. they run from right to left 1-6 5 and 6 were a little more fouled than the rest?

The oil was clean and I found nothing out of the ordinary which was also good.

Now the tune-up...

I am still only able to get 1000rpms as a base... and it is a little lopey there... like I said it sounds like a 302 with a heavy cam... we are beginning to think it might live in this range, but I have not adjusted the carb all the way yet.

Timing is dead on number one at tdc, and I advanced it about 16 degrees to get it to run s little smoother... if you take it even close to 10 or less it stalls.

Running at 1000rpms with the timing around 16 degrees I have 16in vacume on the gauge and the needle is steady but vibrates.

I have not fooled with the valves...


So now for the FUN part... after fooling with this for a while we decided to see how she handled her new legs.
OH MY CRAP, DANG, I ALMOST LOST IT!!!! :shock:

First No clutch chatter...
Slams into gear, we just took it around the block... I was in thrid gear and doing 55mph before I new I had shifted. Dad was laughing. This thing hauls seriously. It idles rough, but it has power and more power... I was only lightly touching the throttle, I cannot wait to open this up. But I am more concerned with getting things straight under the hood...

We just wanted to see how it preformed. And it gave us no trouble at all... but I am still concerned about the vacume readings... and I need to once over the valves.

I do have an issue with the Clutch, we adjusted the clutch but it releases very low... only about an inch from the floor... Makes for some fast starts.
With the pedal all the way up the bearing is just off the fingers... with it to the floor it grabs like I said about half and inch up.. can I compress this some more to get the release point a little higher? how can I make sure the bearing does not ride the fingers but get the release point higher in the pedal travel? And the cable is still tight and hard to me compared to most clutches I have run... but the T5 shifts great!

More to come I am sure... thanks for all the help guys keep it coming! I am so close to serious road time now!
 
Kindly give us the specs again..... :eek: :eek: :eek: ....you ROCK man!!!! Go ahead and break that thing in quickly so we can really see it flying........

Keep it inline!!!!!!!

:checks: :checks: :checks:

Alex
 
Sorry I had to dig some things up...

Head:
Aussie 2v Intake and head:
Installed Stainless US valves w/Iron guides: 1.75 Intake and 1.55 Exhaust.
Performance Double Springs, retainers, keepers
Moly Pushrods
1.65 Roller Rocker Arm Assembly (Oil through Lifters and rods, blocked off oil shaft)
Installed Exhaust Port Divider, milled only slightly!
Extensive Exhaust porting, minimal intake, polished and assembled.
Holley 2300 350 cfm carb
dual out headers into dual GT routed exhaust with Flowmaster 70 series, and tips.

Block:
Schneider Racing Cam:
Adv 260/270, 208/214@ 0.50, .420/.440 lift 110° lobe centers.
CR = 10:1

Installed new Pistons, 6.5cc cast dish pistons bored .040 over decked 30 thou!
Clevite main and Rod bearings
Crank balanced indexed and polished
ARP rod bolts
Moly Rings
Installed cam and dual roller chain.
Balanced

Other information:
T5 transmission, gears 3.97/2.34/1.46/1.00/0.79/3.70R
Rear ratio: 3.25:1
Pro 5.0 shifter with cable clutch
 
mugsy":ak1skqs6 said:
Jimbo,

What did you do to balance the engine? I have a 200 short block I want to put into my '65 Mustang and was thinking of balancing it first. I'm assuming the rods and pistons weights were matched, but what about the crank? Was the crank spun balanced? Any details would be appreciated.

Tanx


There are two types of balance that can be done...

Static, and dynamic if my memory is correct... I have had a few, so don't quote me..

however, one is to take each peice of the rotating assembly and weigh them and remove material on some to macth the lowest... the other involves doing the rotating assembly in tact... in one way I had both... first it was balanced piece by piece then it was run as an assembly, that is what I was told at least....

but it has a much smoother power surge than it had before... it harly moves in there at all, which is good because things are tight on the passenger side!
 
If the Schneider figures are on the stock ratio, it could explain the higher idle speed to some extent.
 
So glad to hear you got her all up and running... I've got to tell you... That's quite possibly the most beautiful thing I have ever seen :shock:
 
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