Mustang II isntall

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cobraguy
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Mustang II isntall

Post #1 by cobraguy » Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:27 pm

I got a deal on a complete 75 Mustang II front end. Donor was a V8 a/c car. I grabbed the master cylinder and proportioning valve with it. So now I have a couple questions right off the bat. Strut rod mounts. Sway Bar links using Falcon bar. Spring rate-springs have been cut so I'll be getting new ones.
Thanks Rich
62 Falcon 2 dr sedan 250/C4 8" "Magoo"
63 Ranchero 200/SROD DS II, Weber "Barney" SOLD

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Re: Mustang II isntall

Post #2 by xctasy » Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:14 am

You will need a Fox sump for a 3.3 or one modified to fit your 250 like Mike1157's

For mounts, you'll have to compare the Fox IFS to the Mustang II one, and make up the right offset for your Falcon.


The Falcon Six to Fox engine mounts are further forward 4".


So all the Foxes used the stock Mustang II postion, but moved them forward 4"



Here is Mike1157's I6 X memeber in his 79 Fairmont

Image


Stock 2.3 Four, 2.8 Cologne and 3.8 Essex V6 and stock SBF v8 mounts are located like this.

Image



The stock I6 frame horns are so much further forward

Here are some before being cut back to install a V6 in a six cylinder Fox. Since the Mustang was sold internationally with a Bristish Cam Gears/Adwest patent power steering rack, this one is actually an SD1 Rover RHD steering rack, same as the Austrailan Cortina. Its shaft is there on the Wrong Side. Or on the Right side, not the Left side....duoh!


The Mustang II IFS X member needs the same kind of work to make frame horns to mount the 200 or 250 I6.

Image

Image

So you have to make perches to forwar mount the stock F150 isolators and mounts Ford used on the Fox i6's.


The Fox was designed to use the Mustang II and Australian Cortina rack and pinion steering made worldwide by Adwest and in USA by TRW. So your I6 has to sit where it does on the stock Fox I6 to suit the Mustang II crossmember.

The upper strut can still be used to hold the stock shock absorbers, you don't have to use the MII ones.Its easier to just copy the Mustang 64 to 73 Mustang II swap details for the Modular Cammer engines. The US aftermarket has got that sorted out. A pre 1967 Modular 5.4 dohc swap uses the Heidts Mustang II IRS, so your better off getting some good Been There, Done that Advice.


The Falcon XK 500 frame is what all that later Mustang 64-73 stuff was based on, so get some advice.


There is lots wrong with the Mustang II stuff, but power rack and pinion is front mounted, the front strut tension rods from the Ford XK 500 platform is best replaced by the Mustang ones.


There's nothing munch good in the early Falcon and pre 1974 Mustang Ford a arm over coil front suspension. Because the steering box is rear mounted,which makes the steering promote roll over steaer and the tension rods cause instabilty and because geometry is pretty archiac, your better off with using as much of the M2 stuff as you can.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... iQ6_trf9n0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17&v=UiQ6_trf9n0


See https://www.hotrodhotline.com/content/i ... 3MQ-zl9gdU


http://www.nzmustang.com/Newintoold/newintoold.htm

Rod & Custom Motor Sports Inc
Address: 448 Green Acres Rd, Florence, SC 29505, USA
Hours: Open ⋅ Closes 5:30PM
Phone: +1 800-525-0091
https://rcmotorsportsinc.com/
nzmustang.com wrote:2. Front Suspension
2.1 A complete Mustang II Front suspension (and steering)

Image
Mustang2frontend.jpg (84714 bytes)


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Mustang2frontendB.jpg (81316 bytes)

This is a major exercise involving removing all the existing front suspension, steering, and much of the shock towers.

The Mustang II front sub-frame assembly complete with suspension, brakes and rack and pinion steering is then positioned in the correct location.

Uprights are welded on to pick up the existing chassis rails and thus attach it to the car. The two big advantages are the conversion to R&P steering, and the big gain in engine bay space, (by removal of the shock towers) giving more room for headers and making spark plug changes so much easier.

Check this link. Easiest way to complete the conversion is to buy one of the aftermarket kits now available such as: Rod & Custom Motorsport. http://www.rcmotorsports.net/page6.html

This is a total Mustang II Front End Kit, with manual or power rack, tubular upper & lower A-arms, Fully adjustable coil-overs and has the small or big block mounts.

"I did the research & Rod & Customs Motorsports makes the best Mustang II kit out there for early Mustangs. The beauty of this kit is that Rod & Customs Motorsports has been around for a long time and will sell you everything individually if should you ever need replacement parts down the road. They have awesome tech support and you'll be talking to the owner of the company when you call. Also, any headers that will work for a 79-93 Fox Mustang will work with this kit. Same goes for the oil pan. ABSOLUTELY NO CUSTOM HEADERS, OILPAN, OR STEERING COLUMN NEEDED WITH THIS KIT---UNLIKE OTHER MUSTANG II FRONT END CONVERSION KITS. This kit even includes the steel patch panels to cover the holes where the shock towers are removed."
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FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: Mustang II isntall

Post #3 by bmbm40 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:39 pm

As usual tons of useful pics and info.
66 Bronco-1970 250, NV3550, DSII, 4 turn ps, uncut, 1" bl, 2.5" sl, front disc, twin stick D 20, 30 x 9.50
NEXT- direct mount 1.08 on D8 head, power brakes, rear limited slip, 3G, electric fan, electric upgrades, custom curved DSII, header, 31" tires

New guy? Get the Falcon Performance Handbook and Ford six high performance parts from https://vintageinlines.com

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Re: Mustang II isntall

Post #4 by cobraguy » Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:15 pm

Thanks for the info and pics. I've done a Volare swap into f-100 so nothing really new here. Same types of challenges. I tore down and cleaned the M2 stuff and found a couple issues. I'll be buying tubular upper arms because one of mine is cracked and the bushings were welded in. I guess the previous installer didn't know how to shrink a the bushing holes to tighten them back up. I've done a lot of mocking up measuring and cardboard test fitting so I know where to cut what and how deep. I know I have to modify my 250 oil pan, it seems the easiest will be to cut the bottom of a fox body 302 pan off and meld it to my 250 then fab a rear sump oil pick up. I have the Scarebird set up on the car now that will be going up for sale when I strip the stock suspension off. Anybody interested in the stuff coming off can PM me. I'll let it go cheap just to recoupe some of the cost. The stock stuff is in good shape and includes 64+ mustang UCAs with roller perches, scarebird disc set up, flipped center link. Don't tell my wife but if an affordable 302 becomes available while it'a apart I may go that route. I think running a second exhaust pipe down the driver side would be easier than fabbing the pan and pick up.
62 Falcon 2 dr sedan 250/C4 8" "Magoo"
63 Ranchero 200/SROD DS II, Weber "Barney" SOLD

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Re: Mustang II isntall

Post #5 by xctasy » Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:28 am

Seriously, you and lavron need to talk...

lavron wrote:......

The front is near finished as well, needs the upper bag mounts installed as well as the air bags.

Image

It is a Mustang 2 install I have cobbled together from various vendors.

Going to start mocking the 250 in there soon building motor and transmission (T5 from 96 Mustang) mounts and seeing how much I have to modify the oil pan, I think I can move the bottom of the pan up to 3.5" below the block surface and still clear all the rotating parts, it is going to be a tight fit for sure.

I actually have a build thread over on the Comet Central Forum and I can link to it if anyone wants to read it.

See Ya,
Mike
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: Mustang II isntall

Post #6 by cobraguy » Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:25 am

Thanks X I'll look up that build thread. Is the Aussie 250 bottom end any different, oil pump location looks to be my challenge. I don't have my pan off yet but the engine is still in place and my frame rails are naked getting prepped for boxing plates. From looking at it the oil pump and R&P might interfere. I'm going to check that before pulling the motor. If they don't jive I'm dropping in a 302 or maybe a 4.6.
62 Falcon 2 dr sedan 250/C4 8" "Magoo"
63 Ranchero 200/SROD DS II, Weber "Barney" SOLD

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Re: Mustang II isntall

Post #7 by xctasy » Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:22 pm

cobraguy wrote:Thanks X I'll look up that build thread. Is the Aussie 250 bottom end any different, oil pump location looks to be my challenge. I don't have my pan off yet but the engine is still in place and my frame rails are naked getting prepped for boxing plates. From looking at it the oil pump and R&P might interfere. I'm going to check that before pulling the motor. If they don't jive I'm dropping in a 302 or maybe a 4.6.




No, the Aussie and US 250's are the same, just enough room if you do the sump right.

See the most powerfull 250 turbo dyno tested on the Classic Inlines page...Bold and underlined accents mine...


viewtopic.php?f=22&t=52784&p=404389#p404389

fast64ranchero wrote:Will I did that last saturday night, it was fun, the car looks like a beater really makes for a nice sleeper, Had lots of people looking at it and shaking there heads....
82F100 not sure what pics you want, most are already on this forum somewhereImage
motor with the TKO 5sp
Image
if I only could have kept it all under the hood!!!!

Image




fast64ranchero wrote:Well I haven't said much in here in some time, and some of you might remember my project that has turned into two year, for the rest of you here's the short version, 250 offset ground crand to 4.125" block bored to .037 over, Manley rods, CP pistons, Clay Smith custom turbo cam, Turbonetics 62-1 turbo, now if I can get the pictures loaded on here you all can see it mated to its tranny (TKO 500) if all goes well it's going in my Fairmont this weekend :lol: Image
Image
Image[/img]

and yes I do have one of Mikes heads, but no intake so my mill'd head will have to do for now :twisted:
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: Mustang II isntall

Post #8 by cobraguy » Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:34 pm

I'd love a couple pictures of that oil pan.
62 Falcon 2 dr sedan 250/C4 8" "Magoo"
63 Ranchero 200/SROD DS II, Weber "Barney" SOLD

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Re: Mustang II isntall

Post #9 by xctasy » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:47 pm

cobraguy wrote:I'd love a couple pictures of that oil pan.



Sure, we do "couple's therepy" here.

Here's another view of Fast64Ranchero's 250 in Fox square sump. 1+1= "a couple"

http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=52695
Image


Not the oil pump "kick out" common to all in line six 200 Foxes from 1978 to 1983.


You can use Briggs and Stratton fuel tanks to do the same thing.



Like non standard 351 C to Fox frame Ford swaps, you can external mount the dip stick tube to avoid drilling the block to relocate the dip stick. Fast64Ranchero did it Early Bronco/ Canton Fox 351c sump style.

The 250 SBF block pattern is the same as the 302/351, so you can use the same profile for a 351c into Fox.

Image

mike1157's http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread. ... swap-help-!

xctasy wrote:For sump, contact Mike1157.

Pick and mix through Mikes work, and copy his parts inventory where required.

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread.php?155706-The-path-less-traveled-1978-Turbo-I6-Futura-%28The-Gila-Monster%29

I can send you some parts, but my kit uses the Aussie X-series engine mounts on an engine that is an inch narrower than the US 250, and the sumps are not the same. The Aussie block is half US 250, half US 200, so little that fits a Aussie 250 into a Fox body will benefit a US 250 Fox.

Sump needs to be custom modified to become a 200 sump at the bottom, and you need to copy the pickup shape. At worst, you can go nuckin futs with a MIG welder, and you'll get a result that will work.

Or you can do a little more networking. The oil pumps aren't the same. What Ford US did when the 250 came out, they dropped the oil pump down the stroke throw length increase 0.392"), which is why the 5/16" oil pump from cam drive shaft is so much longer on a 250.


You can do lots with the oil pump position on 200 and 250 sixes,

http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=72783

Mike eventually made his external, and revised the sump below.


Image
Image
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Mikes looks great. The alternative is to cut and shut the Maverick sump like Jack Collins did.


Image
Image

If you are going to run a stock fan, it needs to be reduced in diameter from the stock size by more than 0.833 inches, as the water pump is up 1.666". It will touch the hood otherwise.

A Mercury Capri hood or tall Mustang hood blister will give you space to fit the carb under the hood. The 250 engine also sits a little taller as the engine mounts are splayed out at 11" center to center from the 9-1/8" wide 200 block.

Mike 1157 just solid mounted his.

You can use the Taurus or later SN95 fan system and water bottle recovery.

There is nothing to the swap. Mike is your best example


JT81Stang's 250 Fox

http://www.fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=359266
use the lower half of the original 200 pan and the upper half (including where the front & rear main seals go) from a 250 pan.

He screwed the upper half to a piece of plywood to minimize warpage when welding the two pieces together.

As for a dipstick tube - it went into the drivers side of the pan just below the mounting flange"

He used 1971 Maverick 250 motor mounts which lower the motor in the engine compartment. You can use the original 200 mounts but the 250 will sit higher


Image

Mike1157's US 250 Fox bottom left

Jack Collins Fox2503vpan top left

James Dinga's 200 Aussie X shell top right

vs vs 1972-192 Cortina 200 and 250 Six bottom right
Last edited by xctasy on Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: Mustang II isntall

Post #10 by xctasy » Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:10 am

When Ford moved from the X shell to the Pinto/Mustang II and then to the Fox platform (the S shell from 1982 onwards), they used the smae hard dimensions from the 1966 Falcon /Fairlane/Mustang revision.



The rack and pinion steering gear was British, and front mounted. The Chassis spacing between toe board and steering and the front wheels was varied by aout 4", with the Pinto/MustangII and Fox all shorterned between the A pillar and the front axle center line.

When blending in the Mustang II or Fox IFS into any X shell, the engine mounts can be pushed right back this much from the stock V8/4 and V6 cylinder positions. Thats 4" or so. This means a stock Fox crossmenber for an I4, V8, or V6 can be used to hold the Small six, without having to move the engine mounts forward


Image

In fact, the narrower 79 to 93 Mustang spring towers can be welded in, along with the cross member.

Here's a 68 Torino (a 1966 Failane/Falcon underneath) with the 2004 SN 95 spring towers moved inwards with Maximim Motors narrow 78-86 Fox and 79-93 Mustang upper links, the narrow track size. The spring towers would weld in to an early Falcon, allowing the upper spring tower braces to be removed.


Image
From https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/464 ... rino/page6

The I6 engine mounts vary in position. Ford changed to Center percussion in the 1969 Mustangs, moving the engine mount forward.

The common F150 4.9 "Motor mount" (aka, the rubber part) was used in some of the 3.3 Foxes. Its a great pickup for mounting a 250, as Dayman found.

Image

With the 1968 incorporation of the 250, and the movement of the 170 or 200 into the Early Bronco, Ford started adding "bits and bobs" to the ages old 144/170 block casting base the 200 and 250's used.

The block transfer lugs allow a later model engine mounts (the metal hardware) to be repositioned.


Early small six Fords were all mounted back from the later center percussion mounts.


Early

Image

Later US

Image


Early verses later

Image

Our 1971-1992 XY, XA, XB, XC, XD, XF 6cylider engine mounts never progressed to the 1969 on wards 250, or 1978 Fox 3.3 liter block positions.

Image


Ford USA just varied the K menber or chassis to enmgine mount positions to suit, like Billy Beer Racings 200 Fairmont Fox engine mounts here


Image
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: Mustang II isntall

Post #11 by bubba22349 » Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:31 pm

Good info xctasy, curious if anyone has pictures showing the difference of the inline 6 cylinder crossmember compared to the V8 or inline 4? :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Mustang II isntall

Post #12 by xctasy » Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:02 am

Yeah, its 4-1/8 " uniform forward in the Foxes for the I6. Or "about" one bore spacing of 4.08" I believe.

The second to third from front frsot "welch" plugs show the difference between the 200 and 250, but you have to measure back to the bellhousing mounting flange to get it exactly.

The I6 block to V8 mount centriod is about 4-1/8", or so generally. Any Fox I6 to Fox V8 comparison shows the distance. The Australian engine mount was devised to stop the engine falling on the road in billobong or washout ridden roads in Australia. It was not uncommon to find foot deep trenches in areas of yumps or arond corners. Ford decided they were going V8, but they decided to repostionthe engine mounts back to the V8 position. The engine mounts generally are a straight measure off the transfer lugs. Grab a SBF, and any small I6, and you can work out the spacing difference. The US scenario was quite different to the Aussie V8/I6 common mounting pads on the cross member. Although very similar, the US small six was downgraded untill the US 250 forced CenterPercussion engine mounts, but not evey small six got them, so they vary quite markedly.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: Mustang II isntall

Post #13 by cobraguy » Sun Sep 30, 2018 11:22 am

Update: I have the boxing plates made and the driver side is boxed. I'm doing this install at an adult ed night course so I only get to work on it Monday and Wednesday nights 6-9. The school has all the fun toys so the trade off is worth it. I also can easily figure how many hours went into the swap. I got a bunch of new parts for my birthday, manual rack, tubular UCAs, springs, 2" drop spindles, steering shaft and u-joints. Shameless plug to SAE Speed in Corona Ca.
62 Falcon 2 dr sedan 250/C4 8" "Magoo"
63 Ranchero 200/SROD DS II, Weber "Barney" SOLD

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