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Got me a new Falcon.... Give me some ideas for her!

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phoenix02
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Got me a new Falcon.... Give me some ideas for her!

Post #1 by phoenix02 » Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:25 am

Hello gentlemen, long time no see! Don't know if you all remember me, but I used to hang around here quite a bit a few years ago. Long enough ago to remember Ford Six Performance parts instead of Classic Inlines. :)

Anyway, I sold off my Falcon, a '66, a couple years ago. Then, right after that, I picked up a '69 F100 with a 300 in it. That has since moved on to my father, as he's always wanted an old truck. I was back in the market for a vehicle recently- I had just bought a Nissan from a friend at church for my wife, but then we just found out we're having a second child coming along in 9 months, so the 2 door car wouldn't work out. Gave it back to the people and set out to find something for her.

Well... I got something. Not technically- it's still a little ways away and I have to set up a way to get it up here- it's in Corona, Ca, and I'm in Apple Valley- but I got a 4 door 1960 Falcon. It's pretty clean and comes with some bits and bobs that will make roadworthiness come along all the sooner.

Now, as this '60 is a completely different animal to the '66 I had, I'm hoping you'd all give me some help. Here are the first of I'm sure many questions.

1- Car is currently set up with a 144 motor and ford-o-matic 2 speed. Car comes with a 200 and C4 combo out of a '67 Mustang. What mods will have to be done to swap it in? Is it just a basic bolt in? I thought they were the same engine with different bore and stroke. True?

2- Included with the car are SSBC conversion disk spindles off of that same mustang. Will these bolt up to the Falcon suspension? Both cars were originally i6 motors and running gear.

3- I'm a big guy. My wife is a little gal, but will be large with child soon... I have to change out the front seat. It is a bench out of a 2 door, I think- the two sides flip forward. Anyway, it sits pretty high and with a large manual steering wheel, I can't fit betwixt the two. Will early Mustang seats bolt in? Should I look for something later model? I just thought the 'stang seats would look most correct, and be a good ways lower than the bench.

4- If I do the 200 swap, I can't use the column shifter. I will be making a custom console, so can make any shifter arrangement work, but would prefer cable drive so that I only have to drill a small hole in the floor pan. Any ideas on a cheap way to put in a console shifter? Any late model parts I could scavenge, or an aftermarket that isn't an arm and a leg for racing applications? I would like something with detents so the wife doesn't accidentally put it in reverse, though.

Thanks everyone,
Michael
1960 Falcon 4 door
1971 Ford F-500 390/4Sp/PB/12FtBox/Lift gate
1973 Jaguar XJ6 DD

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bubba22349
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Re: Got me a new Falcon.... Give me some ideas for her!

Post #2 by bubba22349 » Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:57 am

1- Car is currently set up with a 144 motor and ford-o-matic 2 speed. Car comes with a 200 and C4 combo out of a '67 Mustang. What mods will have to be done to swap it in? Is it just a basic bolt in? I thought they were the same engine with different bore and stroke. True?

Yes should be bolt in with little work overall size is same you need some rewire, as a 67 used an Alt. if you get to pull parts from 67 get all the engine and alt. harnes. Think the exhaust Head pipe is differant size and or gasket type also.

2- Included with the car are SSBC conversion disk spindles off of that same mustang. Will these bolt up to the Falcon suspension? Both cars were originally i6 motors and running gear.

Yes thet will fit some differance in tie rods ends but there are adapters for them and or you can replace for correct taper.

3- I'm a big guy. My wife is a little gal, but will be large with child soon... I have to change out the front seat. It is a bench out of a 2 door, I think- the two sides flip forward. Anyway, it sits pretty high and with a large manual steering wheel, I can't fit betwixt the two. Will early Mustang seats bolt in?

Yes you can fit them easy with some drilling.

4- If I do the 200 swap, I can't use the column shifter. I will be making a custom console, so can make any shifter arrangement work, but would prefer cable drive so that I only have to drill a small hole in the floor pan. Any ideas on a cheap way to put in a console shifter? Any late model parts I could scavenge, or an aftermarket that isn't an arm and a leg for racing applications? I would like something with detents so the wife doesn't accidentally put it in reverse, though.

I have always used a Mustang or Pinto floor shifter most aftermarket or factory 3 speed shifters could be made to work so dose not need to be out of a Ford.
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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61Futura
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Re: Got me a new Falcon.... Give me some ideas for her!

Post #3 by 61Futura » Mon May 02, 2011 11:56 pm

1- Car is currently set up with a 144 motor and ford-o-matic 2 speed. Car comes with a 200 and C4 combo out of a '67 Mustang. What mods will have to be done to swap it in? Is it just a basic bolt in? I thought they were the same engine with different bore and stroke. True?

Use the '60-'61 motor mounts and get a custom tranny mount/crossmember. The fan & waterpump pulley from the "60 engine will have to be used. I got my tranny mount from Ebay seller "50sdeli" for $125 and it worked great. I had a drive shaft made by using the Mustangs front 12" of drive shaft attached to my stock diveshaft after cutting the front off of it. The inside diameter of the "66 Mustang drive shaft is slightly larger than the outside diameter of the "60-'61 drive shaft, so that made it easy. I haven't had to rebalance it either. I may have that checked yet.

2- Included with the car are SSBC conversion disk spindles off of that same mustang. Will these bolt up to the Falcon suspension? Both cars were originally i6 motors and running gear.

Not only are the tie rods smaller, the ball joints are smaller until '62 1/2 models.

3- I'm a big guy. My wife is a little gal, but will be large with child soon... I have to change out the front seat. It is a bench out of a 2 door, I think- the two sides flip forward. Anyway, it sits pretty high and with a large manual steering wheel, I can't fit betwixt the two. Will early Mustang seats bolt in? Should I look for something later model? I just thought the 'stang seats would look most correct, and be a good ways lower than the bench.

I put bucket seats from a '92 Explorer in and I sit very low. Too low for my taste, so I will replace them eventually. Make sure you redrill the rear holes from under the car to make sure you drill through the thin channel iron reinforcement.

4- If I do the 200 swap, I can't use the column shifter. I will be making a custom console, so can make any shifter arrangement work, but would prefer cable drive so that I only have to drill a small hole in the floor pan. Any ideas on a cheap way to put in a console shifter? Any late model parts I could scavenge, or an aftermarket that isn't an arm and a leg for racing applications? I would like something with detents so the wife doesn't accidentally put it in reverse, though.

Get a cable shifter because the crossmember structure for the tranny mount is too far forward for a normal Mustang floor shifter. The shifter would have to be put too far forward for comfort. The tranny tunnel is smaller, but big enough without any hammering. I have my column shifter hooked up and working, but it sucks. Floor shift C4's have the trannys shift lever reversed as compared to a column shift C4. It might be fixable and a new C4 detent plate and indicater is available. I was tempted to use my choke cable as a shift cable. I don't have the kickdown linkage hooked up yet.
61 Futura now with '66 200 C4
88 Bronco II XLT 5spd
2002 Mitsubishi Montero Sport

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kukm66
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Re: Got me a new Falcon.... Give me some ideas for her!

Post #4 by kukm66 » Wed May 11, 2011 11:16 am

You will have to change out the upper a-frames as they are the old 3 bolt ball joint design.
The ball joints will not accomodate the newer spindles.
As stated, newer 4-bolt a-frames were used starting in late 62.
These are the same as early Mustang and can be bought cheap in new condtion.
You might just as well go for an entire front end rebuild since you have to change those out.
1964 Falcon Futura Convertible
1964 Ranchero

PhantomAce
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Re: Got me a new Falcon.... Give me some ideas for her!

Post #5 by PhantomAce » Thu May 12, 2011 10:45 pm

phoenix02:

Your 1960 will be the same underneath as my "early" 1961.
You CAN put the C4 in, but it will take a little engineering.
- Go to www.FalconParts.com and pick up a C4 conversion mount. Then you'll need to make and bolt/weld some arms onto it to tie off to the frame rails ("addo" here on the forum has some good pictures of what I'm talking about).
Word of advice: You "may" need to cut off and drop the parking brake extension arm that the equalizer bar attaches down a little if you're running a larger than stock diameter driveshaft.
- You'll also need a C4 rubber "clam shell" mount. You can also buy this from FalconParts, or just about any auto parts store. It'll be cheaper at "Autodeweebs" or the like, but, honestly, it'll only be a couple bucks less, and by the time you pay sales tax and burn off the gas to go get it, then it would be cheaper and easier to just get Rosie at FalconParts to send it with the conversion mount. And, she'll actually know what you're trying to do, versus dealing with a "stock" parts counter dweeb.
- As mentioned before, the C4 WILL fit, but I have to tell you it will be tight. You will probably need to lower the tranny down to get enough pitch on a swivel socket and a long extension to put the top bellhousing bolts in, so be ready for some cussing. Once it's in though it fits almost like a glove.
- FalconParts also has the C4 adapter lines to hook a C4 up to your stock radiator. They're a little pricey for such basic lines, but they DO fit. the shipping for something that long is not cheap so I would consider whether or not you need new brake or fuel lines at the same time. After all, you're paying for the oversize shipping already, so if you need them, then you may as well grab them at the same time.
- Shifter... What we did on my kid's "Project Car" was install a B&M QuickSilver shifter. These aren't "cheap", but they really work well, and aren't exhorbitantly expensive either. The nice thing is they have a positive stop, so you can't hit park or neutral by accident. Plus, the shifter always returns to the same spot after the shift. Trust me, get a QuickSilver, you'll love it. (The one in the kid's car is actually an "early" one, circa 1980 or so, that came out of my Brother's/His Uncle's Maverick, and the thing still works great, and it's "fun" as well.)
- Watch what starter you buy. The year of the C4 bell will make a difference on the depth of the nose. If you get the wrong one it WILL scrape on the torque converter attachment nuts, so get the right part the first time. Also, don't forget to put the stamped "block plate" (steel shim) in between the engine and tranny. You'll really be hating life if you do, as you'll need to pull either the engine or the trans later to place it.
- Your driveshaft will "probably" need to be cut down and modified, but that's something you can likely deal with locally.
- As for the front suspension... I really can't give an opinion without more info. But, hopefully, at least what I have provided helps.

Let us know how it goes!
Mine: '61 chero, Clifford 200, E0 head (1.75/1.50, 1.6 rocker), 276 Cam, H-W 38/38, CI 6-to-2 header, T5, front disc, Shelby drop, 8" 3.0-posi, buckets/console, 15" TorqThrust's. Still building...
Son's "Parts Car": '61 chero, local built 200, C9 head (1.75/1.50, 1.5 rocker), 274 cam, 2V direct, Clifford 6-to-2 header, C4, B&M QuickSilver, stock rear and susp (for now).

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