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A few Falcon questions.

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Falcon-O-Tron
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A few Falcon questions.

Post #1 by Falcon-O-Tron » Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:52 pm

Hi everyone.

I have a 64 that has the late model 170 in it w/ a 2.77. Once complete, I plan on this being my DD along with my motorcycle. My questions are:

1) What year and model can I find a non-boosted dual master cylinder?

2) Are there any disc brake setups that work with 13" wheels?

3) I need to get a little more top speed out of it for the 3 or 4 trips I take every year to East Texas. (1000 mi round trip). Where do I find lower gears for the 7.25 diff or should I swap diffs?

4) Am I able to add a 1st gear sync to my 2.77 to better handle the steep gears in the diff, or should i swap?

5) Anyone have any preferences on where to get a complete front suspension kit or a list of all the parts that are needed for a front suspension rebuild.

I wanna keep it simple and do as little swapping as possible, unless i can be convinced otherwise :hmmm:
If swapping is recommended, what vehicles do I look for?
I don't really have much access to salvage yards and I prefer that anything I add to the car be either new or rebuilt.

Thanks in advance!

Gene 64 2dr
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Re: A few Falcon questions.

Post #2 by Gene 64 2dr » Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:03 pm

I replaced my suspension with a kit from Lauel Mountain. It had complete upper and lower control arms, strut rod bushings, sway bar end links coil spring cushions and spring saddles. That takes care of everything but tie rod ends pitman and idler arms. California Mustang also has a kit but I think it’s a little bit more.

If you haven’t already, check out tffn.net. You can get just about any question about a Falcon answered there. Great bunch of guys.

Gene
65 Falcon Futura hardtop, FSD’s 250, T5, 4:11’s

1961 Futura
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Re: A few Falcon questions.

Post #3 by 1961 Futura » Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:18 am

Welcome! IMHO, you’ve made a great choice for a daily driver. I second the suggestion that you join us on TFFN. In the meanwhile, let me see if I can answer your questions:

Falcon-O-Tron wrote:Hi everyone.

I have a 64 that has the late model 170 in it w/ a 2.77. Once complete, I plan on this being my DD along with my motorcycle. My questions are:

1) What year and model can I find a non-boosted dual master cylinder? 1967 Mustang.

2) Are there any disc brake setups that work with 13" wheels? No, you can get four-lug disc brake setups from several sources, but they all require a 14-inch wheel.

3) I need to get a little more top speed out of it for the 3 or 4 trips I take every year to East Texas. (1000 mi round trip). Where do I find lower gears for the 7.25 diff or should I swap diffs? Used takeout gears would be your only source. Most people swap to another differential - the Maverick 8-inch is popular in the ‘60-‘63 cars, but the wider ‘64-‘65 cars may have more options. The 8.8" from Explorers is gaining in popularity, also.

4) Am I able to add a 1st gear sync to my 2.77 to better handle the steep gears in the diff, or should i swap? Maybe if you’re a machinist, but there’s no cheap-and-easy way of doing it, and I’ve never heard of it being done. A swap to a T5 five-speed is very popular, with the SROD or “Imposter” Toploader Overdrive coming in a distant second.

5) Anyone have any preferences on where to get a complete front suspension kit or a list of all the parts that are needed for a front suspension rebuild. If the whole front end needs to be refreshed, and you’re thinking about also swapping rear axles, this may be the time to upgrade to Mustang five-lug pieces. Everything from an early Mustang except the centerlink can be swapped in, and several Falcon vendors offer the ‘65 Falcon centerlink to complete process.

I wanna keep it simple and do as little swapping as possible, unless i can be convinced otherwise :hmmm:
If swapping is recommended, what vehicles do I look for?
I don't really have much access to salvage yards and I prefer that anything I add to the car be either new or rebuilt.

You will find that the less-expensive, easier-to-obtain “new or rebuilt” parts are all going to be the upgraded, V8-spec pieces. There’s no reason you can’t use them on a six-cylinder car, and in fact many six guys who are building performance eventually upgrade to them.

Thanks in advance!


Good luck!

-Dave

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Re: A few Falcon questions.

Post #4 by 1961 Futura » Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:23 am

Oh, I should have mentioned that the 3.03 three-speed is an option if all you want is a synchro first gear. It requires a different bellhousing than the 2.77, however; whereas Modern Driveline offers an adaptor to put a Mustang T5 behind the 2.77 bellhousing.

-Dave

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Re: A few Falcon questions.

Post #5 by oldgrezmonke » Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:04 pm

Fordsix is a very good resource for inline 6 engine performance . For everything else Falcon -TFFN is hard to beat . What size tires do you have now ? The recommended 13" tire for the Falcons , at about 24.7 diameter , is 185/80/13 which has become obsolete except through $pecialty $eller$ . This might be the time to move up to 14" or even 15" wheels which both still have a much better choice of sizes than 13" . Changing to taller tires is equivalent to changing the rear axle ratio to slow the engine .
First car - 1961 Falcon Deluxe 4door , had 1968-73
Present - 1963 1/2 Falcon 4door base model , since 2009 ,
frequent driver , work in progress
Yes I like 4doors
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Re: A few Falcon questions.

Post #6 by Falcon-O-Tron » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:01 pm

Gene - I was unaware of tffn, thanks! I haven't checked Laurel Mountain yet.

Dave - Thanks for the info! It seems there is really no easy way to get the car up to
70mph. Ideally, I would like to get a 3.03 to keep the column shift and some lower gears for the diff.
Unfortuantely, it appears that may be more difficult than a T-5 and an 8" swap.

oldgrezmonke - The tires are 175/70R13. I've considered 15" chrome baby moons which would
solve my high speed issue and give me clearance for disc brakes but then I would have the low speed issue with the 2.77 still.

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oldgrezmonke
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Re: A few Falcon questions.

Post #7 by oldgrezmonke » Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:56 pm

175/70/13 is definitely small diameter for a Falcon and would hamper getting to 60 much less 70 . You mentioned your engine is "the late model" . Do you know what year ? Around 1966 or 67 the 170 engine castings were changed to "dual pattern" , sometimes called "dual bell" , which should allow the 3.03 to just about bolt on if your engine is one of those .
First car - 1961 Falcon Deluxe 4door , had 1968-73
Present - 1963 1/2 Falcon 4door base model , since 2009 ,
frequent driver , work in progress
Yes I like 4doors
Lifetime member # 117 NSRA
Former A.S.E. certified mechanic
FCA member # 13677
Admin FFOG

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Falcon-O-Tron
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Re: A few Falcon questions.

Post #8 by Falcon-O-Tron » Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:28 pm

No, it should be a '64, just the late version with the 5/16" oil pump shaft.
I will check though. Would be nice to find an adapter. Maybe if I could get a
3.03 and some bigger wheels, I'd be good to go.

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bubba22349
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Re: A few Falcon questions.

Post #9 by bubba22349 » Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:54 pm

:hmmm: Had a 65 Falcon Futura stock it had 14's.
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

1961 Futura
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Re: A few Falcon questions.

Post #10 by 1961 Futura » Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:09 am

Falcon-O-Tron wrote:Dave - Thanks for the info! It seems there is really no easy way to get the car up to
70mph. Ideally, I would like to get a 3.03 to keep the column shift and some lower gears for the diff.
Unfortuantely, it appears that may be more difficult than a T-5 and an 8" swap.


I really like my column shifter, but I also want overdrive. I have 3.10 gears which are sort of a compromise between being able to drive freeway speeds and being able to drive around town. Frankly, I don’t think they do either well.

I have probably 90% of the parts gathered now to put a Borg-Warner R10 electric overdrive behind an early small-bell engine. The big piece that makes it all possible is the ‘63 Econoline bellhousing. I don’t know the exact whys and hows, but I speculate that Econolines had a “heavy duty” option that put a Borg-Warner T-series three-speed behind the six instead of the 2.77. This lets a ‘49-‘64 T86/R10 bolt up too.

I’m also planning to install 3.50 or lower gears in my car to go along with the 30% reduction offered by the R10. I just have to find a rear axle with that gearset, but that shouldn’t be hard as most guys want the 3.10s I’ve got and can’t wait to ditch their 3.56s or 3.89s.

Anyway, something to think about if you don’t want to go five-speed. Another option might be to find one of the 3+1 overdrives of the ‘70s (“Toploader Imposter”) and try to make that work with your column shifter.

-Dave

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rocklord
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Re: A few Falcon questions.

Post #11 by rocklord » Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:44 pm

bubba22349 wrote::hmmm: Had a 65 Falcon Futura stock it had 14's.


I've had two 65 Mustangs and both had 13's stock. Depends how the vehicle was optioned.
Dan

Currently Own
1965 Mustang, 200CID, 3Spd
1964 Corvair Coupe, 164CID, 140HP, 4Spd
1961 Corvair Lakewood wagon, 145CID, 80HP, 2Spd Powerglide Auto.
2020 BMW X3 M, 3.0L Dual Turbo, 473HP, 8-Spd Auto

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RandyMac
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Re: A few Falcon questions.

Post #12 by RandyMac » Sun Nov 06, 2011 1:19 pm

Ranchero rims are 14" and I have heard that 240Z rims will fit. My '65 Ranchero, with C4, 200cid came from the flatlands of WA, has the 3.00 rear axle, I can cruise 70mph all day.

Here is a list I lifted off TFFN.


14 x 4 1/2"
C4DZ1007A exc. Comet & Maverick
D0DZ1007E Comet & Maverick
Comet '65 6 cyl
Comet '71-72 14x4 1/2, 4 stud
Falcon '64-65 6 cyl
Falcon '66-67 6 cyl 2 & 4 dr Sdn
Maverick '70 14x4 1/2
Maverick '71-72 14x4 1/2, 4 stud
Mustang '65-66 6 cyl. optional 14"
Mustang '67 6 cyl.

14 x 5"
Chevy II '62-63
Covair '62-64 disc. exc. fwd. cont

Falcon '67 6 cyl exc. S.W.
Falcon '68-70 6 cyl exc. S.W.
Maverick '70 14x5
Mustang '68-70 6 cyl

14 x 6"
D0DZ1007C
Comet '72 14x6 4 stud
Maverick '70 14x6
Maverick '71-72 14x6 4 stud

15 x 4" & 15 x 4 1/2"
Jeep 939999
Jeep DJ Dispatcher w/ 4 stud wheel
IH 860221R91
Intern'l Scout 80 & 800 4x2
3150286 Rambler '50-57
Willys '52-55 Pass
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jamyers
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Re: A few Falcon questions.

Post #13 by jamyers » Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:56 am

1) '67 and later

2) Not that I'm aware of.

3) I found a pair of 14" wheels at a junkyard, and put the tallest tires I could on my Ranchero. Made the 3.2 gears "act like" a way taller rear. Had to change the speedo gear to bring it back into line. Discount Tires has a good online calculator to play with tire sizes.

4) Nope, the 2.77 isn't worth much more than a paperweight unfortunately. If the bellhousings can swap, a 3.03 is a WAY better tranny.

5) No input on front end kits
James - '62 Ranchero (200cid), '71 LeSabre (464cid)

The ONLY safety device we need is a 6" sharpened steel spike bolted to the center of the steering wheel of EVERY vehicle.
Emergency Rooms and Funeral Homes will be busy for a week or so, then I predict a dramatic drop in vehicle accidents.

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Falcon-O-Tron
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Re: A few Falcon questions.

Post #14 by Falcon-O-Tron » Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:47 pm

My buddy located two mustangs that have a T5, an '86 and a '93.
Not sure which one to snag. Decided to do the swap having had read this information:
http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/2004/07/01/hmn_feature25.html
http://www.tffn.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=23141
I just hope that the shifter lines up decently.
I'm gonna scope the yard out for an 8" diff also. The 7.25" parts are to expensive and hard to find.

Thanks for the info everyone.
Hope to do the master cylinder in the next few days.
I like my wheels and hubcaps so I'm not sure the wheel swap is for me.

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Re: A few Falcon questions.

Post #15 by David_Conwill » Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:29 am

It’s a little late, but on the shifter-position issue, if you don’t want to source an S10 tailshaft for the forward shifter, consider the handle Hurst makes to clear the bench seat on a ‘55-‘57 Chevrolet.

-Dave
1962 Falcon DeLuxe: 250/T5/8"/Scarebird discs.

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Falcon-O-Tron
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Re: A few Falcon questions.

Post #16 by Falcon-O-Tron » Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:26 am

Actually, I decided against the T5. I wanted to keep my column shift.
Here's what I've done:

14" steel wheels with new P215/65R14's

Scarebird front disc conversion
https://cryawq.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pTsCHPiJbfty_7-2ZfUNAlSmUJdzWPXlH3YDpD0yDXbDbSNPKDCyei1tZBFLvvabMxZaw7WkeOsAh8Lx_5kL0kxVEgcyyeoCF/Brakes.JPG?psid=1

3.03 trans out of a '67 V8 Falcon that I rebuilt and also an adapter plate that I made
https://cryawq.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pYqx5ACUyq3FreFevhp3NKWK-_AtWlfqAl2cMEujnwJb4r7lTDBX_ecACaJWFclHWiCrAm5oxvbMK-IZ07FHWZzFgXAIot8Qz/Trans%20(1).JPG?psid=1

A Ford 8" rear end from a '76 Mustang II that I rebuilt also changing the 3.00's to 2.79's
https://cryawq.bay.livefilestore.com/y1prrXTolkkjt9Tj51eMTnS2580hPYbvXWhiDHCNf4YHlE1KZHywH8OZ3CEfQ-qODZwJYdNjKF64m19t_dFEPpbWnjfEm6pt4ju/RearEnd%20(1).JPG?psid=1

I've got a bunch of Moog suspension and steering parts coming in, including "opentracks" roller spring perches.
I am only pending ordering the front bushings for the leaf springs and I didn't buy a centerlink because mine is still good.

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David_Conwill
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Re: A few Falcon questions.

Post #17 by David_Conwill » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:05 pm

The Mustang II uses a smaller four-lug pattern. Are you running MII wheels?

-Dave
1962 Falcon DeLuxe: 250/T5/8"/Scarebird discs.

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Re: A few Falcon questions.

Post #18 by Falcon-O-Tron » Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:58 am

No sir, I had custom adapters made. The MII diff is a narrower than my original 7-1/4" so the adapters spaced the wheels back out to the right width.
I'm real happy with it. I've spent close to $3500 on this car since buying it mid September. Basically the only thing that isn't new or rebuilt is the steering box.

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